Pioneer 8G 9G Kuro Reset Guide - Page 87 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2581 of 2663 Old 02-19-2019, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by leelaz View Post
hi again, i appreciate every thing your saying and i'm picking up quite a bit of knowledge going through the forums, isn't the lx 5090 very different to my 6090h in the way they are set up and with different VOL values, i'm not questioning your knowledge i'm just worried, as always.
They're not the same TV, but they're not wildly different from each other. As you've found out on your LX6090H, RSTP clears the green pixels and black rain/lag. If you don't have any other artifacts, you don't need to change anything else. Just increase RSTP until the black rain is gone and the green pixels are acceptable to you. You'll need to find the right balance because, as I said, RSTP will raise the black-level.

I would keep in mind that RSTP increases with age, and a reset kinda resets the counter back to zero. It makes sense that RSTP would clear the artifacts. After a reset, the blacks are like OLED black, and that's why there's artifacts because Kuros are not meant to do OLED blacks. That's why I raised the black-level on my LX5090 to stock (0.003 cd/m2), and now there's hardly any green pixels.

I know you said you haven't reset your LX6090H, but given that the artifacts are very much like what you get on a post-reset Kuro (except for maybe the KRP500M), I still think the previous owner reset the pulse-meter without resetting the hours.
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post #2582 of 2663 Old 02-19-2019, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by strangequark View Post
They're not the same TV, but they're not wildly different from each other. As you've found out on your LX6090H, RSTP clears the green pixels and black rain/lag. If you don't have any other artifacts, you don't need to change anything else. Just increase RSTP until the black rain is gone and the green pixels are acceptable to you. You'll need to find the right balance because, as I said, RSTP will raise the black-level.

I would keep in mind that RSTP increases with age, and a reset kinda resets the counter back to zero. It makes sense that RSTP would clear the artifacts. After a reset, the blacks are like OLED black, and that's why there's artifacts because Kuros are not meant to do OLED blacks. That's why I raised the black-level on my LX5090 to stock (0.003 cd/m2), and now there's hardly any green pixels.

I know you said you haven't reset your LX6090H, but given that the artifacts are very much like what you get on a post-reset Kuro (except for maybe the KRP500M), I still think the previous owner reset the pulse-meter without resetting the hours.

I'm inclined to agree with this given the problems leelaz is having and the fact that raising RSTP has solved many of them.


Does raising RSTP introduce red tint on your panel leelaz? - Red tint will be much more severe on a non-reset panel.


You can mitigate this by lowering SAD now. There's a balance that needs to be struck between raising RSTP and lowering SAD.
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post #2583 of 2663 Old 02-19-2019, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post
Not only is the workflow different, but in the end, you have to make picture quality sacrifices to end up with an artifact / misfire free picture after reset.

Here is the workflow for the 60 inch sets.

First set all voltages to default:

Vsus adjustment value 128
Vysnofs adjustment value 68
Vyprst adjustment value Varies (but you can set it to 18)
Vxpofs1 adjustment value 105
Vxpofs2 adjustment value 63
Vyknofs1,2 adjustment value 86
Vyknofs3 adjustment value 96
Vyknofs4 adjustment value 143
Vyknofs1,2/3/4 adjustment value 128

1. Display Combi Mask 10.
2. Raise SAD in 10 tick increments until Combi Mask 10 is clear of misfires (you will have to get very close to the screen to make sure there are no stray misfires in the white lines of the pattern). On my set, I ended up with SAD at 218.
3. Put up a black clipping pattern (black clipping pattern from AVSHD709) or anything with near black content and check for white / green misfires on near black.
4. If misfires near black are present, lower S1 from 86 to 1 to remove sparkles near black. Black clipping pattern from AVSHD709 can be used to see the effect of this adjustment. I don't have a big enough sample size but it seems like sparkles near black don't occur on the 2009 builds.
4. Put up a black field. If red tint is still present, lower RSTP in 1 tick decrements.
5. If red tint persists after lowering RSTP to the minimum value (1), you can lower VOL SUS by 10 to 20 ticks.
6. Use a black clipping pattern to set your brightness (typically +1 or +2).
7. Perform a calibration, as the internal grayscale was thrown off by the pulse meter reset.

Let me know how it goes.

The above will be useful if the panel's been reset.
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post #2584 of 2663 Old 02-20-2019, 02:11 AM
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Originally Posted by strangequark View Post
They're not the same TV, but they're not wildly different from each other. As you've found out on your LX6090H, RSTP clears the green pixels and black rain/lag. If you don't have any other artifacts, you don't need to change anything else. Just increase RSTP until the black rain is gone and the green pixels are acceptable to you. You'll need to find the right balance because, as I said, RSTP will raise the black-level.

I would keep in mind that RSTP increases with age, and a reset kinda resets the counter back to zero. It makes sense that RSTP would clear the artifacts. After a reset, the blacks are like OLED black, and that's why there's artifacts because Kuros are not meant to do OLED blacks. That's why I raised the black-level on my LX5090 to stock (0.003 cd/m2), and now there's hardly any green pixels.

I know you said you haven't reset your LX6090H, but given that the artifacts are very much like what you get on a post-reset Kuro (except for maybe the KRP500M), I still think the previous owner reset the pulse-meter without resetting the hours.
i would go along with all of that and say its been reset

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post #2585 of 2663 Old 02-20-2019, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post
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Originally Posted by Arian Karbasi View Post
When you say the 60 inches are a whole different ball game, do you mean your workflow for getting rid of the 'black rain' does not work? I adjusted some voltages and then stupidly reset and my krp600m has been horrible ever since. Image retention and magenta sparkles along with green sparkles on black screens and I'm not sure how to fix this...
Not only is the workflow different, but in the end, you have to make picture quality sacrifices to end up with an artifact / misfire free picture after reset.

Here is the workflow for the 60 inch sets.

First set all voltages to default:

Vsus adjustment value 128
Vysnofs adjustment value 68
Vyprst adjustment value Varies (but you can set it to 18)
Vxpofs1 adjustment value 105
Vxpofs2 adjustment value 63
Vyknofs1,2 adjustment value 86
Vyknofs3 adjustment value 96
Vyknofs4 adjustment value 143
Vyknofs1,2/3/4 adjustment value 128

1. Display Combi Mask 10.
2. Raise SAD in 10 tick increments until Combi Mask 10 is clear of misfires (you will have to get very close to the screen to make sure there are no stray misfires in the white lines of the pattern). On my set, I ended up with SAD at 218.
3. Put up a black clipping pattern (black clipping pattern from AVSHD709) or anything with near black content and check for white / green misfires on near black.
4. If misfires near black are present, lower S1 from 86 to 1 to remove sparkles near black. Black clipping pattern from AVSHD709 can be used to see the effect of this adjustment. I don't have a big enough sample size but it seems like sparkles near black don't occur on the 2009 builds.
4. Put up a black field. If red tint is still present, lower RSTP in 1 tick decrements.
5. If red tint persists after lowering RSTP to the minimum value (1), you can lower VOL SUS by 10 to 20 ticks.
6. Use a black clipping pattern to set your brightness (typically +1 or +2).
7. Perform a calibration, as the internal grayscale was thrown off by the pulse meter reset.

Let me know how it goes.
You're a life saver. I recently performed a reset on my 600m build date april 2009. Had elevated blacks. After reset it exhibited major black lag, magenta sparkles, white green sparkles near black. After following your guide I was able to get it back to normal. I need to wait until tonight to adjust vrstp to get the best blacks as possible. It is too bright in my living room right now. I will keep you posted.
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post #2586 of 2663 Old 02-20-2019, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by strangequark View Post
I have RSTP set to 128 on my LX5090 (0.003 cd/m2 MLL, you can go pretty high, but I don't think you'll need to go that high. It's a compromise as RSTP will raise the black-level and you'll see some red-tint in a dark room. I don't see any because I use bias-lighting (10% nit surround), but it's something to keep in mind. You just need to find the right balance

As I said on AVForums, raising RSTP is really the only way to clear green pixels near black, whereas raising FSAD made them even worse on my LX5090. Some people lower S1, but it crushes blacks and doesn't clear the green pixels. It only hides them.
If the pulse meter has been reset, then yes, the "correct" way to fix the green sparkles near black and magenta lag is to raise RSTP (by as much as 100 or more ticks!). However, the raise in RSTP will cause some horrible red tint. Which is why I prefer to, after reset, lower RSTP to 1 and raise SAD instead (also by 100 or more ticks), as the red tint is not as bad as when RSTP is raised. The downside to this is the green sparkles near black that occur when SAD is raised, which can be mitigated (i.e. hidden) by lowering S1 to 1. Once the panel hits 1000 hours of use, S1 can be raised to around 66 with little to no green sparkles near black and SAD can be lowered around 10 to 15 ticks.

If the pulse meter has not been reset, then raising SAD around 30 ticks will clear magenta lag, and lowering S1 to 66 (i.e. 20 ticks) will get rid of any green sparkles near black.
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post #2587 of 2663 Old 02-20-2019, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by fastshasdow View Post
You're a life saver. I recently performed a reset on my 600m build date april 2009. Had elevated blacks. After reset it exhibited major black lag, magenta sparkles, white green sparkles near black. After following your guide I was able to get it back to normal. I need to wait until tonight to adjust vrstp to get the best blacks as possible. It is too bright in my living room right now. I will keep you posted.
Interesting. This seems to go against the long held rumor that the 2009 build 60 inch were more tolerant to reset / tweaks, which I've always been skeptical of. I've had one experience with a 2009 build 60 inch set and it behaved just like any other 60 inch - very finicky to tweaks / reset.

Anywho, as your panel hits the 1000 hour usage mark, you'll be able to raise S1 to 66 (to counter the black clipping and red push that occurs when lowering it to 1) with little to no green sparkles near black and also lower SAD by around 20 ticks. Then follow with another calibration and you'll be good to go until the red tint comes back in around 4000 hours or so.

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After a reset, the blacks are like OLED black, and that's why there's artifacts because Kuros are not meant to do OLED blacks.
100%

It's much easier to nail the proper voltages once you get over the OLED blakzzzz mentality.
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post #2589 of 2663 Old 02-21-2019, 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post
If the pulse meter has been reset, then yes, the "correct" way to fix the green sparkles near black and magenta lag is to raise RSTP (by as much as 100 or more ticks!). However, the raise in RSTP will cause some horrible red tint. Which is why I prefer to, after reset, lower RSTP to 1 and raise SAD instead (also by 100 or more ticks), as the red tint is not as bad as when RSTP is raised. The downside to this is the green sparkles near black that occur when SAD is raised, which can be mitigated (i.e. hidden) by lowering S1 to 1. Once the panel hits 1000 hours of use, S1 can be raised to around 66 with little to no green sparkles near black and SAD can be lowered around 10 to 15 ticks.

If the pulse meter has not been reset, then raising SAD around 30 ticks will clear magenta lag, and lowering S1 to 66 (i.e. 20 ticks) will get rid of any green sparkles near black.
Can S1 be lowered more on the 60" sets without crushing blacks? It's quite bad on my LX5090, but maybe the 60" sets behave differently here.

I know what you mean about the red tint, but I prefer to find the right balance with RSTP. At 78, I have no red tint in a dark room (no bias lighting) and the green pixels near black are not as bad. With bias lighting, I can raise RSTP to VA LCD black levels (of course, I don't actually have RSTP set that high!) and still not see any red tint. It's crazy what a 10% nit surround can do!

I know you're not a fan of it, but it's part of the industry standard and it makes a world of difference to posterisation artifacts near black (not to mention eye strain). I figure if films are graded with a 5-10% nit surround, why not use it anyway. There would have been less headaches if this thread began with "use a 10% nit surround", especially as some red tint is normal in a dark room according to D-Nice.

I'm sure there are some extreme cases that warrant a reset, but I would bet the vast majority of Kuro owners don't see any red tint with a 10% nit surround, and a Kuro with a 10% nit surround will have very inky blacks, almost like OLED blacks haha

Each to their own though, I think raising FSAD and lowering S1 is not a bad a solution for people who don't like bias lighting. As an alternative, you could raise RSTP to remove some of the green pixels, but not high enough for red tint, and then lower RSTP as the TV ages (similar to what you're doing with S1). It's either no green pixels with crushed blacks, or less green pixels without crushed blacks.

Last edited by strangequark; 02-21-2019 at 02:38 AM.
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post #2590 of 2663 Old 02-21-2019, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by strangequark View Post
Can S1 be lowered more on the 60" sets without crushing blacks? It's quite bad on my LX5090, but maybe the 60" sets behave differently here.

I know what you mean about the red tint, but I prefer to find the right balance with RSTP. At 78, I have no red tint in a dark room (no bias lighting) and the green pixels near black are not as bad. With bias lighting, I can raise RSTP to VA LCD black levels (of course, I don't actually have RSTP set that high!) and still not see any red tint. It's crazy what a 10% nit surround can do!

I know you're not a fan of it, but it's part of the industry standard and it makes a world of difference to posterisation artifacts near black (not to mention eye strain). I figure if films are graded with a 5-10% nit surround, why not use it anyway. There would have been less headaches if this thread began with "use a 10% nit surround", especially as some red tint is normal in a dark room according to D-Nice.

I'm sure there are some extreme cases that warrant a reset, but I would bet the vast majority of Kuro owners don't see any red tint with a 10% nit surround, and a Kuro with a 10% nit surround will have very inky blacks, almost like OLED blacks haha

Each to their own though, I think raising FSAD and lowering S1 is not a bad a solution for people who don't like bias lighting. As an alternative, you could raise RSTP to remove some of the green pixels, but not high enough for red tint, and then lower RSTP as the TV ages (similar to what you're doing with S1). It's either no green pixels with crushed blacks, or less green pixels without crushed blacks.
None of the 50 inch sets that I've played with have exhibited green sparkles near black, so the workflow that I posted earlier is exclusively for 60 inch sets. The workflow for the 50s involves setting RSTP to 1, raising SAD to around 178 and lowering XSUSB and YSUSB by two or three ticks.

Keep in mind that, after 1000 hours of post reset usage, S1 can be raised to 66 with absolutely no sparkles near black, SAD can be lowered by around 10 to 15 ticks all while RSTP remains at 1, which prolongs the time before the red tint inevitably comes back.

I've seen plenty of Kuros and all of them at this point in time have a varying degree of red tint - on both ends of the spectrum. It's unavoidable due to the internal algorithm raising RSTP over time. Only way to get RSTP back to its initial starting point is via pulse meter reset.

111fd's and 5020s are the perfect reset candidates as it is quite easy to remove all artifacts and they don't suffer from black lag / dirty blacks that are typical when resetting a 500M or 101fd. I reset all 111fd's and 5020s regardless of whether or not they have red tint, as the improvement in black level is well worth it.

500M and 101fd I am much more hesitant to reset due to the aforementioned black lag / dirty blacks. If the red tint is horrible and can't be fixed via voltage tweaks, then I do reset those. The 60 inch sets I don't reset unless I want to put up with the 1000 hour aging process.

I am not a fan of bias lighting, hence why I want 0 hint of red tint on my sets lol. You're right, its all a balancing act and up to personal preference. Regardless of the post reset voltage combination, we are all headed towards the same destination - the reappearance of red tint and inevitable pulse meter reset to wash and rinse all over again.

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post #2591 of 2663 Old 02-22-2019, 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post
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Originally Posted by strangequark View Post
Can S1 be lowered more on the 60" sets without crushing blacks? It's quite bad on my LX5090, but maybe the 60" sets behave differently here.

I know what you mean about the red tint, but I prefer to find the right balance with RSTP. At 78, I have no red tint in a dark room (no bias lighting) and the green pixels near black are not as bad. With bias lighting, I can raise RSTP to VA LCD black levels (of course, I don't actually have RSTP set that high!) and still not see any red tint. It's crazy what a 10% nit surround can do!

I know you're not a fan of it, but it's part of the industry standard and it makes a world of difference to posterisation artifacts near black (not to mention eye strain). I figure if films are graded with a 5-10% nit surround, why not use it anyway. There would have been less headaches if this thread began with "use a 10% nit surround", especially as some red tint is normal in a dark room according to D-Nice.

I'm sure there are some extreme cases that warrant a reset, but I would bet the vast majority of Kuro owners don't see any red tint with a 10% nit surround, and a Kuro with a 10% nit surround will have very inky blacks, almost like OLED blacks haha

Each to their own though, I think raising FSAD and lowering S1 is not a bad a solution for people who don't like bias lighting. As an alternative, you could raise RSTP to remove some of the green pixels, but not high enough for red tint, and then lower RSTP as the TV ages (similar to what you're doing with S1). It's either no green pixels with crushed blacks, or less green pixels without crushed blacks.
None of the 50 inch sets that I've played with have exhibited green sparkles near black, so the workflow that I posted earlier is exclusively for 60 inch sets. The workflow for the 50s involves setting RSTP to 1, raising SAD to around 178 and lowering XSUSB and YSUSB by two or three ticks.

Keep in mind that, after 1000 hours of post reset usage, S1 can be raised to 66 with absolutely no sparkles near black, SAD can be lowered by around 10 to 15 ticks all while RSTP remains at 1, which prolongs the time before the red tint inevitably comes back.

I've seen plenty of Kuros and all of them at this point in time have a varying degree of red tint - on both ends of the spectrum. It's unavoidable due to the internal algorithm raising RSTP over time. Only way to get RSTP back to its initial starting point is via pulse meter reset.

111fd's and 5020s are the perfect reset candidates as it is quite easy to remove all artifacts and they don't suffer from black lag / dirty blacks that are typical when resetting a 500M or 101fd. I reset all 111fd's and 5020s regardless of whether or not they have red tint, as the improvement in black level is well worth it.

500M and 101fd I am much more hesitant to reset due to the aforementioned black lag / dirty blacks. If the red tint is horrible and can't be fixed via voltage tweaks, then I do reset those. The 60 inch sets I don't reset unless I want to put up with the 1000 hour aging process.

I am not a fan of bias lighting, hence why I want 0 hint of red tint on my sets lol. You're right, its all a balancing act and up to personal preference. Regardless of the post reset voltage combination, we are all headed towards the same destination - the reappearance of red tint and inevitable pulse meter reset to wash and rinse all over again.
Yeah. I jumped the gun and reseted my 600m without doing my research
Luckily I was able to get the voltages just right and now my blacks are better than before the reset with no misfire or artifacts. Blacks still not as good as my 101fd, but good enough. Build date april 2009.
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post #2592 of 2663 Old 02-22-2019, 08:46 PM
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[QUOTE=fastshasdow;57640362]
Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by strangequark View Post
Can S1 be lowered more on the 60" sets without crushing blacks? It's quite bad on my LX5090, but maybe the 60" sets behave differently here.

I know what you mean about the red tint, but I prefer to find the right balance with RSTP. At 78, I have no red tint in a dark room (no bias lighting) and the green pixels near black are not as bad. With bias lighting, I can raise RSTP to VA LCD black levels (of course, I don't actually have RSTP set that high!) and still not see any red tint. It's crazy what a 10% nit surround can do!

I know you're not a fan of it, but it's part of the industry standard and it makes a world of difference to posterisation artifacts near black (not to mention eye strain). I figure if films are graded with a 5-10% nit surround, why not use it anyway. There would have been less headaches if this thread began with "use a 10% nit surround", especially as some red tint is normal in a dark room according to D-Nice.

I'm sure there are some extreme cases that warrant a reset, but I would bet the vast majority of Kuro owners don't see any red tint with a 10% nit surround, and a Kuro with a 10% nit surround will have very inky blacks, almost like OLED blacks haha

Each to their own though, I think raising FSAD and lowering S1 is not a bad a solution for people who don't like bias lighting. As an alternative, you could raise RSTP to remove some of the green pixels, but not high enough for red tint, and then lower RSTP as the TV ages (similar to what you're doing with S1). It's either no green pixels with crushed blacks, or less green pixels without crushed blacks.
None of the 50 inch sets that I've played with have exhibited green sparkles near black, so the workflow that I posted earlier is exclusively for 60 inch sets. The workflow for the 50s involves setting RSTP to 1, raising SAD to around 178 and lowering XSUSB and YSUSB by two or three ticks.

Keep in mind that, after 1000 hours of post reset usage, S1 can be raised to 66 with absolutely no sparkles near black, SAD can be lowered by around 10 to 15 ticks all while RSTP remains at 1, which prolongs the time before the red tint inevitably comes back.

I've seen plenty of Kuros and all of them at this point in time have a varying degree of red tint - on both ends of the spectrum. It's unavoidable due to the internal algorithm raising RSTP over time. Only way to get RSTP back to its initial starting point is via pulse meter reset.

111fd's and 5020s are the perfect reset candidates as it is quite easy to remove all artifacts and they don't suffer from black lag / dirty blacks that are typical when resetting a 500M or 101fd. I reset all 111fd's and 5020s regardless of whether or not they have red tint, as the improvement in black level is well worth it.

500M and 101fd I am much more hesitant to reset due to the aforementioned black lag / dirty blacks. If the red tint is horrible and can't be fixed via voltage tweaks, then I do reset those. The 60 inch sets I don't reset unless I want to put up with the 1000 hour aging process.

I am not a fan of bias lighting, hence why I want 0 hint of red tint on my sets lol. You're right, its all a balancing act and up to personal preference. Regardless of the post reset voltage combination, we are all headed towards the same destination - the reappearance of red tint and inevitable pulse meter reset to wash and rinse all over again.
So I'm experiencing some green sparkles on blacks. I did reset my 600m and made the necessary adjustments as you posted. So just to confirm, I will need to lower S1 to get rid of the green sparkles correct? I'm using kuro control to make tweaks. If you know the commands to lower S1 that would be great. Thanks.
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post #2593 of 2663 Old 02-23-2019, 01:24 AM
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Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post
None of the 50 inch sets that I've played with have exhibited green sparkles near black, so the workflow that I posted earlier is exclusively for 60 inch sets. The workflow for the 50s involves setting RSTP to 1, raising SAD to around 178 and lowering XSUSB and YSUSB by two or three ticks.

Keep in mind that, after 1000 hours of post reset usage, S1 can be raised to 66 with absolutely no sparkles near black, SAD can be lowered by around 10 to 15 ticks all while RSTP remains at 1, which prolongs the time before the red tint inevitably comes back.

I've seen plenty of Kuros and all of them at this point in time have a varying degree of red tint - on both ends of the spectrum. It's unavoidable due to the internal algorithm raising RSTP over time. Only way to get RSTP back to its initial starting point is via pulse meter reset.

111fd's and 5020s are the perfect reset candidates as it is quite easy to remove all artifacts and they don't suffer from black lag / dirty blacks that are typical when resetting a 500M or 101fd. I reset all 111fd's and 5020s regardless of whether or not they have red tint, as the improvement in black level is well worth it.

500M and 101fd I am much more hesitant to reset due to the aforementioned black lag / dirty blacks. If the red tint is horrible and can't be fixed via voltage tweaks, then I do reset those. The 60 inch sets I don't reset unless I want to put up with the 1000 hour aging process.

I am not a fan of bias lighting, hence why I want 0 hint of red tint on my sets lol. You're right, its all a balancing act and up to personal preference. Regardless of the post reset voltage combination, we are all headed towards the same destination - the reappearance of red tint and inevitable pulse meter reset to wash and rinse all over again.
The LX5090 behaves more like the 60" sets, sadly. My first and second LX5090 had green sparkles after a reset, you guys are lucky haha

I understand what you mean about raising S1 after the TV has aged, but you can do the same with RSTP, only the opposite. I'm not sure about the 60" sets, but I can raise RSTP to around 78 on my LX5090 (180 hours) before seeing any red tint (no bias lighting), and that clears a fair amount of green pixels near black.

The red tint will come back sooner, yes, but you can lower RSTP back down after the TV has aged, similar to how you raise S1 after 1000 hours. The difference is in the first 1000 hours. It's a trade off, but I'd take a reduction in green pixels over no green pixels with crushed blacks.

Either way, we're almost back at square one with red tint when the green pixels are finally gone, and the never-ending cycle begins again. For 60" sets and LX5090s that have been reset, I think raising RSTP by 100 ticks (or to somewhere near the stock MLL) with bias lighting is the only real solution that will last.

My KRP500M was a bit weird as there were no signs of a reset, but it still had heavily crushed blacks. In a funny turn of events the previous owner wanted it back, and that worked out well because the crushed blacks didn't bother him.
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post #2594 of 2663 Old 02-25-2019, 01:06 PM
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[quote=fastshasdow;57645630]
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastshasdow View Post

So I'm experiencing some green sparkles on blacks. I did reset my 600m and made the necessary adjustments as you posted. So just to confirm, I will need to lower S1 to get rid of the green sparkles correct? I'm using kuro control to make tweaks. If you know the commands to lower S1 that would be great. Thanks.
That is correct. Lower S1 to 1 and keep it there for the first 1000 hours of use. After that, you can raise it up to around 66 and lower SAD by about 15 ticks (all while keeping RSTP at 1).

The command to adjust S1 is v1fXXX with XXX being the desired value (three digits mandatory). So you would issue v1f001

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Originally Posted by strangequark View Post
The LX5090 behaves more like the 60" sets, sadly. My first and second LX5090 had green sparkles after a reset, you guys are lucky haha

I understand what you mean about raising S1 after the TV has aged, but you can do the same with RSTP, only the opposite. I'm not sure about the 60" sets, but I can raise RSTP to around 78 on my LX5090 (180 hours) before seeing any red tint (no bias lighting), and that clears a fair amount of green pixels near black.

The red tint will come back sooner, yes, but you can lower RSTP back down after the TV has aged, similar to how you raise S1 after 1000 hours. The difference is in the first 1000 hours. It's a trade off, but I'd take a reduction in green pixels over no green pixels with crushed blacks.

Either way, we're almost back at square one with red tint when the green pixels are finally gone, and the never-ending cycle begins again. For 60" sets and LX5090s that have been reset, I think raising RSTP by 100 ticks (or to somewhere near the stock MLL) with bias lighting is the only real solution that will last.

My KRP500M was a bit weird as there were no signs of a reset, but it still had heavily crushed blacks. In a funny turn of events the previous owner wanted it back, and that worked out well because the crushed blacks didn't bother him.
I've heard about some Euro 50 inch models behaving like 60s. Sucks.

I tried the method you refer to on many US 60s and the problem is that it takes a considerable raise in RSTP (set to around 150) to clear the magenta lag that's common in the 60 inch sets after reset. Not sure if this phenomenon occurs in the LX5090, but think of black rain / lag, but the pixels light up a bright magenta in the process of "waking up" from black to non black. Way more obvious than the old fashioned black rain / lag that occurs on the 50s. Anyways, by the time the magenta lag clears, black level is way higher than stock (I measured it) and red tint is even worse than reset.

SAD is much more efficient with regards to magenta lag removal, all while maintaining stock black level and causing minimal red tint (as long as RSTP is set to 1). I even tried a mixture of both methods - partial raises in both RSTP and SAD, but that gave me the worst of both worlds - red tint AND sparkles near black (since the sparkles appear after ANY raise to SAD).

While not the "correct" way to restore a reset 60 inch set, the method I employ produces the best PQ results right off the bat. The black crush can be remedied by raising brightness a tick or two, though the low end grayscale will have a green push.

In the end, once the 1000 hour mark is hit, we both end up back at square one soon after anyways. Hence why avoid 60 inch Kuros at all costs - 2009 or not 2009 build.

I bet the pulse meter reset was reset on the 500M but the hour meter was not... which is exactly what I do, why leave traces of a reset for the next owner?

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Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post
I've heard about some Euro 50 inch models behaving like 60s. Sucks.

I tried the method you refer to on many US 60s and the problem is that it takes a considerable raise in RSTP (set to around 150) to clear the magenta lag that's common in the 60 inch sets after reset. Not sure if this phenomenon occurs in the LX5090, but think of black rain / lag, but the pixels light up a bright magenta in the process of "waking up" from black to non black. Way more obvious than the old fashioned black rain / lag that occurs on the 50s. Anyways, by the time the magenta lag clears, black level is way higher than stock (I measured it) and red tint is even worse than reset.

SAD is much more efficient with regards to magenta lag removal, all while maintaining stock black level and causing minimal red tint (as long as RSTP is set to 1). I even tried a mixture of both methods - partial raises in both RSTP and SAD, but that gave me the worst of both worlds - red tint AND sparkles near black (since the sparkles appear after ANY raise to SAD).

While not the "correct" way to restore a reset 60 inch set, the method I employ produces the best PQ results right off the bat. The black crush can be remedied by raising brightness a tick or two, though the low end grayscale will have a green push.

In the end, once the 1000 hour mark is hit, we both end up back at square one soon after anyways. Hence why avoid 60 inch Kuros at all costs - 2009 or not 2009 build.

I bet the pulse meter reset was reset on the 500M but the hour meter was not... which is exactly what I do, why leave traces of a reset for the next owner?
That's what you'd do, huh? Naughty I think you're right, though, XSUSB and YSUSB were at 128 with no magenta misfires. A bit weird for a KRP500M.

I get sparkles near black with FSAD at stock. If I lower S1, raising Brightness brings the sparkles back on my LX5090, so I can't really do that on the LX5090.

I suspect the EU/UK 60" sets behave differently from the US 60" sets (and perhaps more like the UK/EU 50" sets), as Leelaz's LX6090H doesn't have magenta lag from what he has said, but still has black lag and sparkles near black. He raised RSTP to 59 from 29 and it helped with the sparkles/black lag. I think he should raise RSTP a bit more, but I'm not sure what he's doing now.

I stand corrected regarding the US 60" sets. It's a shame they behave that way, maybe my LX5090 is not so bad haha. I still think raising RSTP with bias lighting is a better solution. It will last longer than a reset without bias lighting, which is not long at all, and won't have crushed blacks for 1000 hours. It's not a bad alternative for people who don't mind bias lighting.

I'll see if I can get some photos up with RSTP at 75, 100, 125 and 150.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strangequark View Post
That's what you'd do, huh? Naughty I think you're right, though, XSUSB and YSUSB were at 128 with no magenta misfires. A bit weird for a KRP500M.

I get sparkles near black with FSAD at stock. If I lower S1, raising Brightness brings the sparkles back on my LX5090, so I can't really do that on the LX5090.

I suspect the EU/UK 60" sets behave differently from the US 60" sets (and perhaps more like the UK/EU 50" sets), as Leelaz's LX6090H doesn't have magenta lag from what he has said, but still has black lag and sparkles near black. He raised RSTP to 59 from 29 and it helped with the sparkles/black lag. I think he should raise RSTP a bit more, but I'm not sure what he's doing now.

I stand corrected regarding the US 60" sets. It's a shame they behave that way, maybe my LX5090 is not so bad haha. I still think raising RSTP with bias lighting is a better solution. It will last longer than a reset without bias lighting, which is not long at all, and won't have crushed blacks for 1000 hours. It's not a bad alternative for people who don't mind bias lighting.

I'll see if I can get some photos up with RSTP at 75, 100, 125 and 150.
Hour meter is cosmetic, it has no bearing on the internal algorithms, so why reset it? lol. Plus, using my Kuro Kapture program, it's quite easy to see if the hour meter's been reset at any point in time.

The XSUSB and YSUSB adjustments are not mandatory. Only needed if you see magenta sparkles on white after raising SAD to clear combi mask 6.

I stay far away from 60 inch US Kuros. They're a nightmare to deal with when they inevitably get red tint. Magenta lag is way worse than black lag lol.

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Hi everybody,

I was reading up on adjusting a Kuro KRP 500A and was hoping someone could help me with an issue I've been having.
My recently bought second hand panel has 18000 hrs on it and is showing some magenta and green misfires/sparkles/dancing pixels.
The magenta is pretty visible in a 100% white and can be lowered a lot by simply adjusting contrast (though that messes up the image ofcourse).
It looks a lot like the page 17 images in the reset guide, but fortunately not quite that bad.
The green/magenta blob in the upper left corner is visible during scenes or stills with light at that spot and something dark elsewhere (best i can describe it

Everything else is looking crisp to my eyes and I was hoping this might be solved with some minor voltage tweaks.

I recently bought a Logitech 350 and have accessed the service menu, but to be fair, I'm a little worried I might make things worse with just fiddling with S3 and 4 and hoping for the best.
I do have some experience adjusting voltages on GPU/CPU's, but this would be my first TV.
I'm not hunting OLED black (though that would be a nice bonus), I primarily want to get rid of the misfires.

Could someone please inform me (or send a link to the right page with the info) on which voltages would be safe to test some adjustments with in this scenario?

Thanks in advance!
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Alrighty, I couldn't help myself and started tinkering.

It turns out both the green (cyan?) and magenta misfires in the white area where fixable by lowering y SUS B to 121 (at 122 it still had some green in the upper left corner).
I took the liberty of setting RSTP to 0 while I was at it, before reset it was 12, after it was 18. Is it useful to set it to 1, or should i just leave it?

Now I still don't fully understand what I changed with Y SUS B and if I need to compensate it directly with other settings, I'm already very happy with the results, but I'm interested to see if there's more to be won at this point.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinier van Dorp View Post
Alrighty, I couldn't help myself and started tinkering.

It turns out both the green (cyan?) and magenta misfires in the white area where fixable by lowering y SUS B to 121 (at 122 it still had some green in the upper left corner).
I took the liberty of setting RSTP to 0 while I was at it, before reset it was 12, after it was 18. Is it useful to set it to 1, or should i just leave it?

Now I still don't fully understand what I changed with Y SUS B and if I need to compensate it directly with other settings, I'm already very happy with the results, but I'm interested to see if there's more to be won at this point.
Colored sparkles / misfires on white background are resolved by lowering XSUSB and YSUSB by the same amount. So rather than lowering YSUSB from 128 (default) to 121, lower each by one tick at a time until the sparkles / misfires go away. You'll probably end up with both XSUSB and YSUSB at around 125 or 124.

I would definitely keep RSTP at 1 since it keeps the red tint at bay and improves black levels.

Would you be able to provide the values for all voltages? Want to make sure they're at stock (with the exception being RSTP) before I suggest further adjustments.

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Hi and sorry for the delayed response, I was on vacation.

Thanks for the advice, I managed to get the same result with both X and Y at 125.
At 126 i thought I could still spot some yellowish blotch in the upper left corner with an APL clipping test on, but it might be a case of when you gaze in the screen long enough the screen gazes back at you

My blacks are as red/bright as you might expect at 18000 hours, but still very watchable with some ambient lights on.

These are my current values:

VOL SUS: 128
VOL OFFSET: 113
RSTP 1 (original 12)
X S1: 085
X S2: 063
Y S1: 138
Y S3: 128
Y S4: 149
Y SAD: 128
1st KSB: 128
2nd KSB: 128
1SF KSB: 128
1SF HZ: 128
X SUS 1 B: 128
Y SUS 2 B: 128
X SUS 3 B: 128
Y SUS B: 125 (original 128)
X SUS B: 125 (original 128)
Everything until SCAN ADRS: 128
SUS FREQ: MODE1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinier van Dorp View Post
Hi and sorry for the delayed response, I was on vacation.

Thanks for the advice, I managed to get the same result with both X and Y at 125.
At 126 i thought I could still spot some yellowish blotch in the upper left corner with an APL clipping test on, but it might be a case of when you gaze in the screen long enough the screen gazes back at you

My blacks are as red/bright as you might expect at 18000 hours, but still very watchable with some ambient lights on.

These are my current values:

VOL SUS: 128
VOL OFFSET: 113
RSTP 1 (original 12)
X S1: 085
X S2: 063
Y S1: 138
Y S3: 128
Y S4: 149
Y SAD: 128
1st KSB: 128
2nd KSB: 128
1SF KSB: 128
1SF HZ: 128
X SUS 1 B: 128
Y SUS 2 B: 128
X SUS 3 B: 128
Y SUS B: 125 (original 128)
X SUS B: 125 (original 128)
Everything until SCAN ADRS: 128
SUS FREQ: MODE1
All your voltages (except RSTP, X/YSUSB) are at stock. I'd lower Y SAD to 108 to mitigate the red tint and lower black level a bit more. You could go lower than that, but if the red tint still bothers you with Y SAD at 088, then a pulse meter reset would be the best bet to remove the red tint.

There's a way to test out a reset and back out of it if you're not happy with the results:

1. access service menu overlay (fay command or fay then facs01 command)
2. go to etc > digital eeprom > delete
3. hold enter button for 5 seconds
4. red led turns on and blue led flashes
5. go to panel information screen
6. dig. eep should say no data! and backup should say adjusted, if not, repeat starting from step 2
7. reset pulse meter
8. exit service menu overlay (fan command or facs00 command)
9. put tv on standby and take it out of standby
10. at this point, you can perform voltage adjustments to correct any artifacts caused by the reset (RSTP at 1, X/YSUS both at 125 and Y SAD at 168 is a good starting point)
11. to keep the reset / voltage changes, go to etc > digital eeprom > repair and hold enter button for 5 seconds
12. to undo the reset / voltage changes, go to etc > backup data > transfer and hold enter button for 5 seconds
13. put tv on standby and take it out of standby

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Hello, guys! I've purchase an LX5090H with around 9000 hours on them. Of course it has elevated blacks, red tint at the top and the bottom of the screen as well a dirty screen effect on 0% IRE black. I have found the following commands on
and took a chance to enter them since the author was so sure about them.
Code:
FAY  CHM  CMT  CPC  CPD  CPM  CSD  VRP010  VYF145  YSB125  XSB125  MKSS49   VFQS02   ABL200  VFQS03   ABL200   VFQS05   ABL200   VFQS06   ABL200   VFQS07   ABL200   VFQS13   ABL200   MKSS00 MKRS03 VFQS06 PBH505 PGH515 PRH495 VFQS07 PBH505 PGH515 PRH495 MKRS00   FCM  FAN  POF
So the panel hours were reset. The picture did change a bit but the blacks remained largely unchanged. Can you tell me what I need to input to actually improve blacks and remove the tint problem?


Also, how do I change one setting, for example RSTP? And how do I know current settings?

Last edited by Elix; 05-26-2019 at 02:37 AM.
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post #2604 of 2663 Old 05-27-2019, 02:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Elix View Post
Hello, guys! I've purchase an LX5090H with around 9000 hours on them. Of course it has elevated blacks, red tint at the top and the bottom of the screen as well a dirty screen effect on 0% IRE black. I have found the following commands on this YouTube video and took a chance to enter them since the author was so sure about them.
Code:
FAY  CHM  CMT  CPC  CPD  CPM  CSD  VRP010  VYF145  YSB125  XSB125  MKSS49   VFQS02   ABL200  VFQS03   ABL200   VFQS05   ABL200   VFQS06   ABL200   VFQS07   ABL200   VFQS13   ABL200   MKSS00 MKRS03 VFQS06 PBH505 PGH515 PRH495 VFQS07 PBH505 PGH515 PRH495 MKRS00   FCM  FAN  POF
So the panel hours were reset. The picture did change a bit but the blacks remained largely unchanged. Can you tell me what I need to input to actually improve blacks and remove the tint problem?


Also, how do I change one setting, for example RSTP? And how do I know current settings?

I'm not sure about the LX5090H, but I've reset two LX5090s and they had green sparkles near black. I'd be careful.

Patrik (the uploader of that video) has a KRP500M and it doesn't have green sparkles near black after a reset. It's still not the perfect reset Kuro he wants everyone to believe, as the KRP500M has heavily crushed blacks after a reset. He just loves his Kuro too much to see it!

I'd wait for Eddie to reply. It looks like you've already reset your LX5090H if those commands were entered, but there would have been a night and day difference to the black-level, and you shouldn't see any red tint.

To change RSTP, you need to go into the service menu, or you can change it with a command, like VRP001.

To change RSTP in the service menu, send FAY as a command and then press Mute on your remote twice. You should see PANEL FACTORY, press Enter on your remote and then press Up until you see PANEL-1 ADJ. Here you can change RSTP.

I'd look into bias lighting (Medialight). It will increase the perceived contrast ratio, reduce eye strain, and the red tint won't be anywhere near as noticeable. It's also part of the industry standard (5-10% nit surround). But I get that not everyone is a fan of it.
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post #2605 of 2663 Old 05-27-2019, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strangequark View Post
I'm not sure about the LX5090H, but I've reset two LX5090s and they had green sparkles near black. I'd be careful.

Patrik (the uploader of that video) has a KRP500M and it doesn't have green sparkles near black after a reset. It's still not the perfect reset Kuro he wants everyone to believe, as the KRP500M has heavily crushed blacks after a reset. He just loves his Kuro too much to see it!

I'd wait for Eddie to reply. It looks like you've already reset your LX5090H if those commands were entered, but there would have been a night and day difference to the black-level, and you shouldn't see any red tint.

To change RSTP, you need to go into the service menu, or you can change it with a command, like VRP001.

To change RSTP in the service menu, send FAY as a command and then press Mute on your remote twice. You should see PANEL FACTORY, press Enter on your remote and then press Up until you see PANEL-1 ADJ. Here you can change RSTP.

I'd look into bias lighting (Medialight). It will increase the perceived contrast ratio, reduce eye strain, and the red tint won't be anywhere near as noticeable. It's also part of the industry standard (5-10% nit surround). But I get that not everyone is a fan of it.
Hey, thank you for the reply! I've devoted a lot of time today in reading this topic. This is what I ultimately did:
VOL SUS 128
VOL OFFSET 140
VOL RST P 010
VOL XPOFS1 085
VOL XPOFS2 047
Vol YKNOFS1 D 143 / 083
VOL YKNOFS3 D 128 / 083
VOL YKNOFS4 D 172 / 128
VOL YKNOFSA D 145


Bold are changed values, others are default (I got them with QAJ command). I've read that you should't change default values for SUS, OFFSET, XPOFS1, XPOFS2, RST P and FSA D. I got rid of most of the red tint (but not all of it). And I'm afraid of lowering these values further. I don't see any artifacts. Am I on the right track? Should I stop now?
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post #2606 of 2663 Old 05-28-2019, 01:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post
Hey, thank you for the reply! I've devoted a lot of time today in reading this topic. This is what I ultimately did:
VOL SUS 128
VOL OFFSET 140
VOL RST P 010
VOL XPOFS1 085
VOL XPOFS2 047
Vol YKNOFS1 D 143 / 083
VOL YKNOFS3 D 128 / 083
VOL YKNOFS4 D 172 / 128
VOL YKNOFSA D 145


Bold are changed values, others are default (I got them with QAJ command). I've read that you should't change default values for SUS, OFFSET, XPOFS1, XPOFS2, RST P and FSA D. I got rid of most of the red tint (but not all of it). And I'm afraid of lowering these values further. I don't see any artifacts. Am I on the right track? Should I stop now?
RSTP and YKNOFSAD are not at their defaults, you changed them when you entered the commands from Patrik’s video (VRP010 and VYF145), but no one says you can’t change them.

It’s YKNOFS1, YKNOFS3 and YKNOFS4 that people don't recommend changing. The separation between YKNOFS3 and YKNOFS4 is important, as you’ll have artifacts if they’re separated too much. Lowering YKNOFS1 is not as bad, but you'll crush blacks if it's lowered too much.

It’s weird that your Kuro has red tint straight after a reset, so I would confirm that your Kuro has been reset.

Change the following voltages to the given values:

VOL YKNOFS1 D 143
VOL YKNOFS3 D 128
VOL YKNOFS4 D 172
VOL YKNOFSA D 128

XSUS_B 128
YSUS_B 128

XSUS_B and YSUS_B are in PANEL -1 ADJ, but further down. They will be at 125 if you entered the commands from Patrik's video correctly.

If your Kuro has been reset, you'll have some magenta pixels on a white screen. If you do, lower XSUS_B and YSUS_B 1 tick at a time until they have gone.
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post #2607 of 2663 Old 05-28-2019, 01:35 AM
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Originally Posted by strangequark View Post
RSTP and YKNOFSAD are not at their defaults, you changed them when you entered the commands from Patrik’s video (VRP010 and VYF145), but no one says you can’t change them.



It’s YKNOFS1, YKNOFS3 and YKNOFS4 that people don't recommend changing. The separation between YKNOFS3 and YKNOFS4 is important, as you’ll have artifacts if they’re separated too much. Lowering YKNOFS1 is not as bad, but you'll crush blacks if it's lowered too much.



It’s weird that your Kuro has red tint straight after a reset, so I would confirm that your Kuro has been reset.



Change the following voltages to the given values:



VOL YKNOFS1 D 143

VOL YKNOFS3 D 128

VOL YKNOFS4 D 172

VOL YKNOFSA D 128



XSUS_B 128

YSUS_B 128



XSUS_B and YSUS_B are in PANEL -1 ADJ, but further down. They will be at 125 if you entered the commands from Patrik's video correctly.



If your Kuro has been reset, you'll have some magenta pixels on a white screen. If you do, lower XSUS_B and YSUS_B 1 tick at a time until they have gone.
Good catch! I've missed that I've changed them since I've entered them mechanically.

I can change XSUS_B and YSUS_B with commands, right?

I will try your advice later, thanks!
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post #2608 of 2663 Old 05-28-2019, 01:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Elix View Post
Good catch! I've missed that I've changed them since I've entered them mechanically.

I can change XSUS_B and YSUS_B with commands, right?

I will try your advice later, thanks!

Yes, you can change them with commands.
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post #2609 of 2663 Old 05-28-2019, 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by strangequark View Post
Patrik (the uploader of that video) has a KRP500M and it doesn't have green sparkles near black after a reset. It's still not the perfect reset Kuro he wants everyone to believe, as the KRP500M has heavily crushed blacks after a reset. He just loves his Kuro too much to see it!
Interesting. So, a while back, I was in contact with Patrik about performing a reset and getting all the commands right for the best picture on my PRO-101FD. Afterward, I never got around to entering the command set from his most recent revision, or performing a reset at all. I think the only command I've ever entered to modify settings was VRP001 or 002, which did have desirable change to black level (about half that of a 111FD I used to own, which also only had VRP changed to same).

If everything "looks good" as is on my set, is it recommended not to perform the reset, even with all the extensive work that has gone into his particular list of commands?
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post #2610 of 2663 Old 05-28-2019, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Ange1Rob0t View Post
Interesting. So, a while back, I was in contact with Patrik about performing a reset and getting all the commands right for the best picture on my PRO-101FD. Afterward, I never got around to entering the command set from his most recent revision, or performing a reset at all. I think the only command I've ever entered to modify settings was VRP001 or 002, which did have desirable change to black level (about half that of a 111FD I used to own, which also only had VRP changed to same).

If everything "looks good" as is on my set, is it recommended not to perform the reset, even with all the extensive work that has gone into his particular list of commands?
correct do not reset, you will end up with a whole can of worms
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