Pioneer 8G 9G Kuro Reset Guide - Page 89 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 147Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #2641 of 2676 Old 06-13-2019, 07:33 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by strangequark View Post
Not Eddie (I'm sure he'll reply soon), but my LX5090 had red tint with 2000 hours on it after reset. It doesn't matter if you tweak or reset, red tint is inevitable, sadly.

But yes, the 5020 can be reset from what Eddie has said. It's the US/EU 60", KRP500M and EU 50" sets that have artifacts (green sparkles near black or crushed blacks), except for maybe the KRP500A (hopefully).

If you're not against bias lighting, I would look at Medialight. You can have a ton of red tint in a dark room and still not see any with some ambient lighting. I think it's a good alternative to resets, especially with Kuros that can't be reset without artifacts (60" sets etc), or even as a way to extend the time between each reset.
Hmm, it is surprising to hear the red tint returned after 2000 hours, which seems (relatively) brief. Sorry to hear that. I take it that you are searching for a KRP500A in hopes it behaves differently?

After reading your posts earlier in this thread I have indeed considered ambient lighting. I'd very much prefer not to have it, as growing up we had a tradition of turning the lights down on movie night, but it is certainly something worth looking into.
Weary Atlas is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2642 of 2676 Old 06-13-2019, 09:45 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
makaveddie81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,968
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 620 Post(s)
Liked: 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weary Atlas View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post
Pretty sure I got most from the service manual. The 111/151 service manual doesn't include the RS232 commands. Use the 101fd/500M service manual instead.
Man, of course I miss this. I had downloaded the monitor service manual and that was literally the only one I didn't look through of all the manuals I have. Thank you.

On a more serious note, thanks also for providing foolproof instructions for American 50" KURO non-monitor maintenance. I can't imagine how long it would have taken to figure this out on my own. I can't get over how helpful this is, and how clear you've made it.

Additionally, yes I must thank you (Yet again!) for all the programs you wrote and have now provided for free on these forums. I added them to my collection of nifty screwdrivers that will be indispensable to this ordeal. I must now order the USB to serial cable, else use my dad's Dell Laptop from 1999 with serial port ROFL. I could use that I suppose, I may dust it off tomorrow evening to get started.
The workflow also applies to the US 101fd and KRP500M. However, those sets usually exhibit black lag and dirty looking near black after being reset, though the black level improvement is off the charts and you’ll only see those artifacts if you have a keen eye or are consistently looking for them.

If the red tint is really bad and can’t be removed via voltage tweaks, then i would definitely reset those models as well, especially with how cheaply they can be had at this point.

Sharp Elite PRO-70X5FD (Kuro PRO-171FD) x 2
Pioneer Kuro KRP-500M
Pioneer Kuro PRO-111FD
Pioneer Kuro PDP-5020
makaveddie81 is offline  
post #2643 of 2676 Old 06-13-2019, 09:48 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
makaveddie81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,968
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 620 Post(s)
Liked: 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weary Atlas View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by strangequark View Post
Not Eddie (I'm sure he'll reply soon), but my LX5090 had red tint with 2000 hours on it after reset. It doesn't matter if you tweak or reset, red tint is inevitable, sadly.

But yes, the 5020 can be reset from what Eddie has said. It's the US/EU 60", KRP500M and EU 50" sets that have artifacts (green sparkles near black or crushed blacks), except for maybe the KRP500A (hopefully).

If you're not against bias lighting, I would look at Medialight. You can have a ton of red tint in a dark room and still not see any with some ambient lighting. I think it's a good alternative to resets, especially with Kuros that can't be reset without artifacts (60" sets etc), or even as a way to extend the time between each reset.
Hmm, it is surprising to hear the red tint returned after 2000 hours, which seems (relatively) brief. Sorry to hear that. I take it that you are searching for a KRP500A in hopes it behaves differently?

After reading your posts earlier in this thread I have indeed considered ambient lighting. I'd very much prefer not to have it, as growing up we had a tradition of turning the lights down on movie night, but it is certainly something worth looking into.
Subsequent resets after an initial reset where you used the above workflow are painless since you won’t have to change voltages. Simply reset with the current voltages and you wont have any post reset artifacts. You will need to perform the white balance preservation steps in order to not throw off your current calibration after reset.

Sharp Elite PRO-70X5FD (Kuro PRO-171FD) x 2
Pioneer Kuro KRP-500M
Pioneer Kuro PRO-111FD
Pioneer Kuro PDP-5020
makaveddie81 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2644 of 2676 Old 06-14-2019, 10:21 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post
Subsequent resets after an initial reset where you used the above workflow are painless since you won’t have to change voltages. Simply reset with the current voltages and you wont have any post reset artifacts. You will need to perform the white balance preservation steps in order to not throw off your current calibration after reset.
Sweet, good to know!

I'm going to try and get to this Sunday evening. Didn't have a chance to today, and probably not tomorrow either. I'm gonna try on the old laptop first cuz a cable would take a while to get here. I just hope it doesn't run too slow, and that it actually turns on haha.

There are so so so many pages about these KUROs across five or so threads. My head is spinning a little LOL. One of these days I'd like to look into several details that I've never cleared up related to the whole motion picture pipeline. Over time I'd like to refine the picture, learning the requisite topics properly/gradually, and ideally organized in a queue which prioritizes the facets that will make the greatest improvement to picture quality first.

It seems the first step is to address the blacks/tint issue. I'd imagine the next step is to learn how to properly calibrate the TV in ISF mode, which I suppose requires some additional hardware, namely a color sensitive camera. Is a light meter really necessary? IONO. It doesn't seem like a setup disc has much use.

I see some users have some high end components in their pipeline, namely a video processor and/or high end blu ray player like the OPPO. Does this more expensive hardware improve the picture quality? There are some fairly cheap BDP-103D's in my area on the ol' CL, and some reviewers seem to rave on the image processing algorithms, I am curious as to what difference it makes. It seems like the TV has some advanced features with regards to things such as Color Space and such, and I'd imagine these devices should be able to leverage that. I'm going to try and set some time aside to read into some of these things, and hopefully peruse the KURO manual to get up to at least get familiar with some of the diction here and all these different standards. I suspect these standards and information will be relevant in some capacity in the future, if not I am still interested anyway. Not sure when I'll be able to get a calibration camera though. The look up tables also seems relevant here. Ayyyyyyy

With regard to crushed/dirty blacks: For the former do you mean there is perhaps macroblocking going on during low level scenes where clumps of pixels, irregularly distributed, stay 0 black? For the latter I'm imagining a similar sort of phenomenon just with smaller clumps of pixels, and both these phenomena happening when there should be smooth transitions to black instead of splotches.

The KRP sounds amazing! I think I will keep an eye out on craigslist and hopefully one day one shows up.
Weary Atlas is offline  
post #2645 of 2676 Old 06-19-2019, 12:16 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
makaveddie81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,968
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 620 Post(s)
Liked: 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weary Atlas View Post
Sweet, good to know!

I'm going to try and get to this Sunday evening. Didn't have a chance to today, and probably not tomorrow either. I'm gonna try on the old laptop first cuz a cable would take a while to get here. I just hope it doesn't run too slow, and that it actually turns on haha.

There are so so so many pages about these KUROs across five or so threads. My head is spinning a little LOL. One of these days I'd like to look into several details that I've never cleared up related to the whole motion picture pipeline. Over time I'd like to refine the picture, learning the requisite topics properly/gradually, and ideally organized in a queue which prioritizes the facets that will make the greatest improvement to picture quality first.

It seems the first step is to address the blacks/tint issue. I'd imagine the next step is to learn how to properly calibrate the TV in ISF mode, which I suppose requires some additional hardware, namely a color sensitive camera. Is a light meter really necessary? IONO. It doesn't seem like a setup disc has much use.

I see some users have some high end components in their pipeline, namely a video processor and/or high end blu ray player like the OPPO. Does this more expensive hardware improve the picture quality? There are some fairly cheap BDP-103D's in my area on the ol' CL, and some reviewers seem to rave on the image processing algorithms, I am curious as to what difference it makes. It seems like the TV has some advanced features with regards to things such as Color Space and such, and I'd imagine these devices should be able to leverage that. I'm going to try and set some time aside to read into some of these things, and hopefully peruse the KURO manual to get up to at least get familiar with some of the diction here and all these different standards. I suspect these standards and information will be relevant in some capacity in the future, if not I am still interested anyway. Not sure when I'll be able to get a calibration camera though. The look up tables also seems relevant here. Ayyyyyyy

With regard to crushed/dirty blacks: For the former do you mean there is perhaps macroblocking going on during low level scenes where clumps of pixels, irregularly distributed, stay 0 black? For the latter I'm imagining a similar sort of phenomenon just with smaller clumps of pixels, and both these phenomena happening when there should be smooth transitions to black instead of splotches.

The KRP sounds amazing! I think I will keep an eye out on craigslist and hopefully one day one shows up.
For calibrating any display, you'll need a colorimeter, a tripod to hold the colorimeter, calibration software and a calibration pattern disc or pattern generator. I personally use the X-Rite i1 Display Pro, Calman software and the AVSHD709 calibration disc (free download on AVSForum). Color HCFR is a good free alternative to Calman.

IMO, a high end blu ray player won't improve picture quality one bit. You pay for a high end blu ray player for its features, loading speed, etc. A video processor will yield a more accurate calibration, though I'd argue it's not really necessary since the Kuro can be calibrated to an almost perfect white balance and gamma. The Kuro color management system is broken (though color is pretty much spot on), so a video processor may be of benefit in this regard.

If you're on a budget, I'd suggest you first use your funds on a colorimeter and practice calibrating the Kuro. If you're not happy with the picture after mastering Kuro calibration, then buy a video processor.

The dirty near blacks look like very bad dithering (i.e. dancing pixels), most likely caused by the fact that the Kuro is under-driven by lower voltages than usual and the voltage it applies to "wake up" pixels that are displaying near black content is not enough to fully wake them up and thus they flicker / dance around.

Sharp Elite PRO-70X5FD (Kuro PRO-171FD) x 2
Pioneer Kuro KRP-500M
Pioneer Kuro PRO-111FD
Pioneer Kuro PDP-5020
makaveddie81 is offline  
post #2646 of 2676 Old 06-19-2019, 12:52 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,038
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 437 Post(s)
Liked: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post
For calibrating any display, you'll need a colorimeter, a tripod to hold the colorimeter, calibration software and a calibration pattern disc or pattern generator. I personally use the X-Rite i1 Display Pro, Calman software and the AVSHD709 calibration disc (free download on AVSForum). Color HCFR is a good free alternative to Calman.

IMO, a high end blu ray player won't improve picture quality one bit. You pay for a high end blu ray player for its features, loading speed, etc. A video processor will yield a more accurate calibration, though I'd argue it's not really necessary since the Kuro can be calibrated to an almost perfect white balance and gamma. The Kuro color management system is broken (though color is pretty much spot on), so a video processor may be of benefit in this regard.

If you're on a budget, I'd suggest you first use your funds on a colorimeter and practice calibrating the Kuro. If you're not happy with the picture after mastering Kuro calibration, then buy a video processor.

The dirty near blacks look like very bad dithering (i.e. dancing pixels), most likely caused by the fact that the Kuro is under-driven by lower voltages than usual and the voltage it applies to "wake up" pixels that are displaying near black content is not enough to fully wake them up and thus they flicker / dance around.
Hardest part for me calibrating the KRP-600M was getting set up with unlocking the ISF modes and then calibrating with Control Cal. Once I figured all that out the Kuro was super easy to dial in and the delta errors were very good.
Test Ickles is online now  
post #2647 of 2676 Old 06-19-2019, 06:44 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post
For calibrating any display, you'll need a colorimeter, a tripod to hold the colorimeter, calibration software and a calibration pattern disc or pattern generator. I personally use the X-Rite i1 Display Pro, Calman software and the AVSHD709 calibration disc (free download on AVSForum). Color HCFR is a good free alternative to Calman.

IMO, a high end blu ray player won't improve picture quality one bit. You pay for a high end blu ray player for its features, loading speed, etc. A video processor will yield a more accurate calibration, though I'd argue it's not really necessary since the Kuro can be calibrated to an almost perfect white balance and gamma. The Kuro color management system is broken (though color is pretty much spot on), so a video processor may be of benefit in this regard.

If you're on a budget, I'd suggest you first use your funds on a colorimeter and practice calibrating the Kuro. If you're not happy with the picture after mastering Kuro calibration, then buy a video processor.

The dirty near blacks look like very bad dithering (i.e. dancing pixels), most likely caused by the fact that the Kuro is under-driven by lower voltages than usual and the voltage it applies to "wake up" pixels that are displaying near black content is not enough to fully wake them up and thus they flicker / dance around.
Thank you for the direction, I'll set my sights on the X-Rite when enough funds become available!

I noticed you had a discussion with Bloodwound about the CMS. I take it you adjust grayscale and gamma and essentially leave color on its own?

Thanks for explaining the artifacts, that makes sense.

I tried using the old laptop but it was just too slow and glitchy. I did a few queries over RS232 before tapping out. I literally just ordered the USB cable today, hopefully it will arrive soon so I can do the panel reset. I have a Logitech Harmony 650 and set it up with the Factory Command but, as you recommend, I don't want to mess around in the menu until I read the documentation. It's nice to know that it works though. I think I will write a brief post about it in the thread that consolidates your 4 KURO programs??? All the posts I've read about setting this up in the General 9G Owner's thread were honestly confusing when in reality it was really straight forward, not sure what all the fuss was about. One post should be enough to clear it up.

I found updated links for some of the documentation in the KRP Owner's thread. Just now I tried to PM bodosom with the links but unfortunately I can't because I don't have 15 posts. I'm not sure how I should give him the message now. Should I quote him in the KRP thread so he gets a notification? Not sure if the post would be clutter though.

Your responses to my questions are reassuring and have helped structure my long term plans. Thanks buddy!
Weary Atlas is offline  
post #2648 of 2676 Old 06-19-2019, 07:29 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Test Ickles View Post
Hardest part for me calibrating the KRP-600M was getting set up with unlocking the ISF modes and then calibrating with Control Cal. Once I figured all that out the Kuro was super easy to dial in and the delta errors were very good.
Hey Test

It's my understanding that on the KRP monitors ISF modes must be enabled before they can be activated, correct? You didn't use KuroControl to enable them? On my PRO-111FD I don't see any ISF modes, which I guess means they're not activated. From what I've read here you have additional calibration controls when you are in the ISF picture mode (say 9 pt gamma) right? So this would mean in the end you can wind up with a more accurate picture? Is this the only reason why you have a more accurate picture in ISF mode, or do the calibration controls themselves behave differently when adjusting the image output? Also, do you have to calibrate all AV types for each input. For example, do you have to calibrate Pure, Movie, Sport, Game, etc. separately on each input? That sounds like a significant undertaking.

So you used Control Cal instead of Eddie's software? Was this because he hadn't released them to the public yet?

I've seen you're name quite a lot on these KURO threads as well. Nice to meet a fellow fan!
Weary Atlas is offline  
post #2649 of 2676 Old 06-19-2019, 07:59 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,038
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 437 Post(s)
Liked: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weary Atlas View Post
Hey Test

It's my understanding that on the KRP monitors ISF modes must be enabled before they can be activated, correct? You didn't use KuroControl to enable them? On my PRO-111FD I don't see any ISF modes, which I guess means they're not activated. From what I've read here you have additional calibration controls when you are in the ISF picture mode (say 9 pt gamma) right? So this would mean in the end you can wind up with a more accurate picture? Is this the only reason why you have a more accurate picture in ISF mode, or do the calibration controls themselves behave differently when adjusting the image output? Also, do you have to calibrate all AV types for each input. For example, do you have to calibrate Pure, Movie, Sport, Game, etc. separately on each input? That sounds like a significant undertaking.

So you used Control Cal instead of Eddie's software? Was this because he hadn't released them to the public yet?

I've seen you're name quite a lot on these KURO threads as well. Nice to meet a fellow fan!
Used this program KuroControl to unlock ISF modes
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/167-p...0m-elites.html
Then I purchased Control Cal for the calibration. I would use Eddie's programs if I was doing it today. In ISF modes you get the whole calibration options. 10 pt white balance, 10 point gamma and full color management. Not only a more accurate calibration can be achieved but the ISF modes are brighter and have more pop. As for all the inputs I'm not to sure. I simply calibrated input 5 on ISF Night and use it for everything since it's connected to an AVR. With Eddie's programs you can also lower voltages for really deep blacks. There's alot of fun to be had!
Test Ickles is online now  
post #2650 of 2676 Old 06-19-2019, 08:36 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
makaveddie81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,968
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 620 Post(s)
Liked: 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Test Ickles View Post
Hardest part for me calibrating the KRP-600M was getting set up with unlocking the ISF modes and then calibrating with Control Cal. Once I figured all that out the Kuro was super easy to dial in and the delta errors were very good.
You should try out my KuroCal program. Much more intuitive, easier to use, no need for profiles (works on all Kuros including KRP ISF “patch”), all controls in one window (don’t have to flip back and forth between two profiles) and a “copy to all inputs” button that copies ISF settings to all inputs.
makaveddie81 is offline  
post #2651 of 2676 Old 06-19-2019, 08:39 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
makaveddie81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,968
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 620 Post(s)
Liked: 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weary Atlas View Post
Thank you for the direction, I'll set my sights on the X-Rite when enough funds become available!

I noticed you had a discussion with Bloodwound about the CMS. I take it you adjust grayscale and gamma and essentially leave color on its own?

Thanks for explaining the artifacts, that makes sense.

I tried using the old laptop but it was just too slow and glitchy. I did a few queries over RS232 before tapping out. I literally just ordered the USB cable today, hopefully it will arrive soon so I can do the panel reset. I have a Logitech Harmony 650 and set it up with the Factory Command but, as you recommend, I don't want to mess around in the menu until I read the documentation. It's nice to know that it works though. I think I will write a brief post about it in the thread that consolidates your 4 KURO programs??? All the posts I've read about setting this up in the General 9G Owner's thread were honestly confusing when in reality it was really straight forward, not sure what all the fuss was about. One post should be enough to clear it up.

I found updated links for some of the documentation in the KRP Owner's thread. Just now I tried to PM bodosom with the links but unfortunately I can't because I don't have 15 posts. I'm not sure how I should give him the message now. Should I quote him in the KRP thread so he gets a notification? Not sure if the post would be clutter though.

Your responses to my questions are reassuring and have helped structure my long term plans. Thanks buddy!
Correct, you adjust grayscale and gamma (most of the time gamma is spot on with defaults) and leave the CMS alone (though the main color control is adjusted to net a red delta luminance of 0).
makaveddie81 is offline  
post #2652 of 2676 Old 06-19-2019, 08:47 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
makaveddie81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,968
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 620 Post(s)
Liked: 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weary Atlas View Post
Hey Test

It's my understanding that on the KRP monitors ISF modes must be enabled before they can be activated, correct? You didn't use KuroControl to enable them? On my PRO-111FD I don't see any ISF modes, which I guess means they're not activated. From what I've read here you have additional calibration controls when you are in the ISF picture mode (say 9 pt gamma) right? So this would mean in the end you can wind up with a more accurate picture? Is this the only reason why you have a more accurate picture in ISF mode, or do the calibration controls themselves behave differently when adjusting the image output? Also, do you have to calibrate all AV types for each input. For example, do you have to calibrate Pure, Movie, Sport, Game, etc. separately on each input? That sounds like a significant undertaking.

So you used Control Cal instead of Eddie's software? Was this because he hadn't released them to the public yet?

I've seen you're name quite a lot on these KURO threads as well. Nice to meet a fellow fan!
ISF modes need to be activated in order to access them on any Kuro model not just the KRP. Activating them on the KRPs requires additional commands when compared to Elite models. Somehow these additional commands were hailed as a “patch”.

My KuroCal program activates ISF modes on all Kuros with a click of a button as long as the correct model is chosen by the user.

Yes ISF modes provide additional controls along with more granular adjustment than the non ISF modes, which yields a more accurate picture.

Each ISF mode (ISF DAY and ISF NIGHT) has to be calibrated on each input (if you do indeed use all inputs). Though my KuroCal program can copy ISF modes to all inputs with a click of a button. Once you calibrate ISF modes, you’ll never need to use any of the other picture modes.
makaveddie81 is offline  
post #2653 of 2676 Old 06-19-2019, 11:44 PM
Member
 
strangequark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 70
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post
You should try out my KuroCal program. Much more intuitive, easier to use, no need for profiles (works on all Kuros including KRP ISF “patch”), all controls in one window (don’t have to flip back and forth between two profiles) and a “copy to all inputs” button that copies ISF settings to all inputs.
It doesn't work with my LX5090. I'm forced to use ControlCAL. It's a painful experience haha.

It worked with my KRP500M.
strangequark is offline  
post #2654 of 2676 Old 06-19-2019, 11:47 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Elix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Dungeon, Pillar of Eyes
Posts: 1,574
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 253 Post(s)
Liked: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by strangequark View Post
It doesn't work with my LX5090. I'm forced to use ControlCAL. It's a painful experience haha.



It worked with my KRP500M.
It works with my LX5090H.
Elix is offline  
post #2655 of 2676 Old 06-19-2019, 11:50 PM
Member
 
strangequark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 70
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post
It works with my LX5090H.
Which model did you use? PDP-LX?
strangequark is offline  
post #2656 of 2676 Old 06-19-2019, 11:53 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Elix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Dungeon, Pillar of Eyes
Posts: 1,574
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 253 Post(s)
Liked: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by strangequark View Post
Which model did you use? PDP-LX?
Yes. If it doesn't work for maybe try another USB-to-RS232 adapter.
Elix is offline  
post #2657 of 2676 Old 06-20-2019, 12:05 AM
Member
 
strangequark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 70
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post
Yes. If it doesn't work for maybe try another USB-to-RS232 adapter.

Maybe, but it works (Keyspan USA-19HS) with ControlCAL, and KuroCal worked with my KRP500M, so it doesn't seem like a connector/adapter issue. I'll give it another try today.
strangequark is offline  
post #2658 of 2676 Old 06-20-2019, 11:15 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post
ISF modes need to be activated in order to access them on any Kuro model not just the KRP. Activating them on the KRPs requires additional commands when compared to Elite models. Somehow these additional commands were hailed as a “patch”.
Oh man thanks for clearing that up! The forum talk was so confusing =\

Quote:

My KuroCal program activates ISF modes on all Kuros with a click of a button as long as the correct model is chosen by the user.
Nice!

Quote:
Each ISF mode (ISF DAY and ISF NIGHT) has to be calibrated on each input (if you do indeed use all inputs). Though my KuroCal program can copy ISF modes to all inputs with a click of a button. Once you calibrate ISF modes, you’ll never need to use any of the other picture modes.
Seems like you thought of everything lol.
makaveddie81 likes this.
Weary Atlas is offline  
post #2659 of 2676 Old 06-20-2019, 02:13 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
makaveddie81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,968
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 620 Post(s)
Liked: 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by strangequark View Post
Maybe, but it works (Keyspan USA-19HS) with ControlCAL, and KuroCal worked with my KRP500M, so it doesn't seem like a connector/adapter issue. I'll give it another try today.
When I developed the program, I didn't know there were two versions of the LX-5090 (European models are way more confusing than the US models IMO). If it works on his LX-5090H but not on your LX-5090, then there's probably more differences between these sets than we originally thought.

Do you get an error message of any sort when attempting to use it on your LX-5090? or does the program just crash?

Sharp Elite PRO-70X5FD (Kuro PRO-171FD) x 2
Pioneer Kuro KRP-500M
Pioneer Kuro PRO-111FD
Pioneer Kuro PDP-5020
makaveddie81 is offline  
post #2660 of 2676 Old 06-20-2019, 02:21 PM
Newbie
 
heckoss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 1
I'm apprehensive about tweaking my newly acquired PRO-141FD with some of the experiences shared in this thread with 60" models.

However, my set already has green sparkles and magenta trails that I'd like to fix.

From what I've read and my limited comprehension, most of this thread is dedicated to lowering black levels and the red tint. Then counteracting these artifacts introduced once tweaks have been made.

I'm curious if there are any recommendations for fixing green sparkles and magenta trails on their own. Leaving black levels/tint as is.
heckoss is offline  
post #2661 of 2676 Old 06-20-2019, 03:15 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,038
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 437 Post(s)
Liked: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by heckoss View Post
I'm apprehensive about tweaking my newly acquired PRO-141FD with some of the experiences shared in this thread with 60" models.

However, my set already has green sparkles and magenta trails that I'd like to fix.

From what I've read and my limited comprehension, most of this thread is dedicated to lowering black levels and the red tint. Then counteracting these artifacts introduced once tweaks have been made.

I'm curious if there are any recommendations for fixing green sparkles and magenta trails on their own. Leaving black levels/tint as is.
What is the manufacture date? It is believed that 141's and 600M had panels that were produced at a different plant that the other 9 gens and that the glass was handpicked. I have had great success with my March 09' 600M with lowering voltages for better blacks with no ill effects.
Test Ickles is online now  
post #2662 of 2676 Old 06-20-2019, 03:29 PM
Newbie
 
heckoss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Test Ickles View Post
What is the manufacture date? It is believed that 141's and 600M had panels that were produced at a different plant that the other 9 gens and that the glass was handpicked. I have had great success with my March 09' 600M with lowering voltages for better blacks with no ill effects.
April 09' if I'm translating the serial number correctly. The first two letters are: ID
heckoss is offline  
post #2663 of 2676 Old 06-20-2019, 06:02 PM
Newbie
 
heckoss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Test Ickles View Post
What is the manufacture date? It is believed that 141's and 600M had panels that were produced at a different plant that the other 9 gens and that the glass was handpicked. I have had great success with my March 09' 600M with lowering voltages for better blacks with no ill effects.
I tried lowering VOL YKNOFSA D from 128 to 90 to see how mine would respond. The black level is lower with less red tint but unfortunately my issues with green sparkles and magenta trails are worse. If I had the option I'd prefer the opposite (no artifacts with elevated black levels).
heckoss is offline  
post #2664 of 2676 Old 06-24-2019, 03:54 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
makaveddie81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,968
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 620 Post(s)
Liked: 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by heckoss View Post
I tried lowering VOL YKNOFSA D from 128 to 90 to see how mine would respond. The black level is lower with less red tint but unfortunately my issues with green sparkles and magenta trails are worse. If I had the option I'd prefer the opposite (no artifacts with elevated black levels).
It looks like your 141fd might have been reset by the previous owner. To rule that out, I suggest setting all voltages to defaults:

PRO-141FD
Vsus adjustment value 128
Vysnofs adjustment value 68
Vyprst adjustment value Varies but set it to 18
Vxpofs1 adjustment value 105
Vxpofs2 adjustment value 63
Vyknofs1 adjustment value 86
Vyknofs3 adjustment value 96
Vyknofs4 adjustment value 143
Vyknofsa D adjustment value 128

If you still see green sparkles, lower Vyknofs1 to 66.
If you still see magenta, raise Vyknofsa D in 10 tick increments. If the green sparkles reappear or they get worse, then set Vyknofsa D back to 128 and raise Vyprst in 10 tick increments until the magenta goes away.

Sharp Elite PRO-70X5FD (Kuro PRO-171FD) x 2
Pioneer Kuro KRP-500M
Pioneer Kuro PRO-111FD
Pioneer Kuro PDP-5020
makaveddie81 is offline  
post #2665 of 2676 Old 06-25-2019, 06:06 AM
Newbie
 
heckoss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post
It looks like your 141fd might have been reset by the previous owner. To rule that out, I suggest setting all voltages to defaults:

PRO-141FD
Vsus adjustment value 128
Vysnofs adjustment value 68
Vyprst adjustment value Varies but set it to 18
Vxpofs1 adjustment value 105
Vxpofs2 adjustment value 63
Vyknofs1 adjustment value 86
Vyknofs3 adjustment value 96
Vyknofs4 adjustment value 143
Vyknofsa D adjustment value 128

If you still see green sparkles, lower Vyknofs1 to 66.
If you still see magenta, raise Vyknofsa D in 10 tick increments. If the green sparkles reappear or they get worse, then set Vyknofsa D back to 128 and raise Vyprst in 10 tick increments until the magenta goes away.
Thank you, makaveddie81. I'm experiencing these anomalies at the default settings. Though I suspect there have been two resets if that information is recorded and displayed in the service menu. I think it's relevant to mention my set has over 32K hours.

I was able to test your recommendations briefly before I left the house which did reduce green sparkles but never completely. The magenta seems to be less of an issue unless values are lowered.

Over the weekend I spent more time making adjustments based on further readings of this thread and my own hypothesis. Raising Vyprst alone seemed to completely clear the set of green sparkles. Though at 43 the blacks have lost their richness.

I have compensated by lowering the brightness to -10 and increasing the contrast to 40. Still not an optimal picture with OLED like blacks but at least the anomalies have been corrected for now.

I will continue to make adjustments and report back, in case this is typical behavior of sets that reach this many hours.

I am curious to hear about any changes to picture quality others have noticed since their resets/adjustments were made. It's been a fews years since the majority of owners made changes. It would be interesting to know your set's hours when reporting back as well.

Last edited by heckoss; 06-25-2019 at 06:11 AM.
heckoss is offline  
post #2666 of 2676 Old 06-28-2019, 03:34 AM
Newbie
 
heckoss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post
It looks like your 141fd might have been reset by the previous owner. To rule that out, I suggest setting all voltages to defaults:

PRO-141FD
Vsus adjustment value 128
Vysnofs adjustment value 68
Vyprst adjustment value Varies but set it to 18
Vxpofs1 adjustment value 105
Vxpofs2 adjustment value 63
Vyknofs1 adjustment value 86
Vyknofs3 adjustment value 96
Vyknofs4 adjustment value 143
Vyknofsa D adjustment value 128

If you still see green sparkles, lower Vyknofs1 to 66.
If you still see magenta, raise Vyknofsa D in 10 tick increments. If the green sparkles reappear or they get worse, then set Vyknofsa D back to 128 and raise Vyprst in 10 tick increments until the magenta goes away.

It turns out that I was not happy with the elevated red blacks. At least not without trying some adjustments. I used some settings you posted a few pages back with your 141 which addressed the black red tint and more importantly fixed my green sparkle issue. Though I did have to raise RSTP to 30 to do so completely.

VOL SUS = 88
VOL OFFSET = 140
VOL RST P = 30
VOL XPOFS1 = 85
VOL XPOFS1 = 47
VOL YKNOFS1 D = 143
VOL YKNOFS3 D = 128
VOL YKNOFS4 D = 172
VOL YKNOFSA D = 158 

I'm pretty thrilled with the picture I'm getting for the price I paid for the TV. Without the contributions of this thread I wouldn't be.

I do have one more question though. The programs you wrote are not Mac compatible correct? I have been accessing the service menu using my Harmony remote but to my knowledge you can't unlock the ISF modes. I'd like to use those but don't have a PC.
heckoss is offline  
post #2667 of 2676 Old 06-29-2019, 07:58 PM
Member
 
manis52581's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 5
Did the trick for me - thanks!
manis52581 is offline  
post #2668 of 2676 Old 06-30-2019, 06:51 AM
Newbie
 
heckoss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Test Ickles View Post
What is the manufacture date? It is believed that 141's and 600M had panels that were produced at a different plant that the other 9 gens and that the glass was handpicked. I have had great success with my March 09' 600M with lowering voltages for better blacks with no ill effects.

Do you mind sharing your voltage settings after adjustments? I've tried to search for them but can't seem to locate them.
heckoss is offline  
post #2669 of 2676 Old 06-30-2019, 07:01 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Elix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Dungeon, Pillar of Eyes
Posts: 1,574
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 253 Post(s)
Liked: 106
I just can't get 4:4:4 to work on HDMI Video setting with my nVidia GTX1060 card. I even bought Cable Matters Active DisplayPort to HDMI adapter to no avail. Does anybody have their TV working in 4:4:4 in Video HDMI setting?
Elix is offline  
post #2670 of 2676 Old 06-30-2019, 08:37 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,038
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 437 Post(s)
Liked: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by heckoss View Post
Do you mind sharing your voltage settings after adjustments? I've tried to search for them but can't seem to locate them.
Stock
VOL RSTP 38
VOL YKNOFS1D 86
S3D 96
S4D 143

Current
VOL RSTP 1
VOL YKNOFS1D 55
S3D 65
S4D 112

Min range
VOL RSTP
VOL YKNOFS1D 54
S3D 65
S4D 111

I'm right at the minimum ranges given by Pioneer.
Test Ickles is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

Tags
Pioneer Elite Kuro Pro 1150hd 50 Inch Plasma Hdtv

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off