Any more info on LG PB6600 (or other 2014 model) plasma? - Page 48 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1411 of 1765 Old 04-09-2015, 07:05 AM
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Frank , Dave ,

what is your contrast adjustment in LG picture menu please? My calibrator set upped contrast 90, and picture wizard recommend 95-96, honestly even 5-6 difference in contrast is showing more white whites even on warm2 ISF calibrated panel. Which contrast are you following on your sets now? In darker scenes when I switch to 95-6contrast it is better visible (not bt1886 calibrated but I have 2,1-2,2 gamma in low IREs 5-10 to improve shadow visibility and gamma is rising to 2,4 in later IREs too which is cool I think).
On brighter scenes 90 contrast I think is better looking compared to picture wizard recommended 95,
90 is looking less white slightly overburned colours.
Instrumentation is more proper like picture wizard or experienced calibrator eye is too right?

Tks

Milan
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post #1412 of 1765 Old 04-09-2015, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MK1980 View Post
Frank , Dave ,

what is your contrast adjustment in LG picture menu please? My calibrator set upped contrast 90, and picture wizard recommend 95-96, honestly even 5-6 difference in contrast is showing more white whites even on warm2 ISF calibrated panel. Which contrast are you following on your sets now? In darker scenes when I switch to 95-6contrast it is better visible (not bt1886 calibrated but I have 2,1-2,2 gamma in low IREs 5-10 to improve shadow visibility and gamma is rising to 2,4 in later IREs too which is cool I think).
On brighter scenes 90 contrast I think is better looking compared to picture wizard recommended 95,
90 is looking less white slightly overburned colours.
Instrumentation is more proper like picture wizard or experienced calibrator eye is too right?

Tks

Milan
The following are the relevant settings for the BT1886 calibration on my display and Frank's display.
...............................Dave's ....Frank's
Mode..................... Expert1 ..Expert2
Panel Light ...............100 ..........90
Contrast ................... 98 ..........96
Brightness .................53...........54

Measured 100% .......48 ft-l......38 ft-l

Again, Frank has a much better controlled viewing situation than I have, so I was shooting for absolute peak white.

Also, these settings apply to the individual displays - they DO NOT necessarily APPLY TO OTHER DISPLAYS!
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Last edited by davehancock; 04-09-2015 at 08:33 AM. Reason: Fix Formating
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post #1413 of 1765 Old 04-09-2015, 08:44 AM
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Question

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Originally Posted by mipi View Post
I bought my 60PB5600 a few days ago (March 12) here in Greece. Assembled in Poland on December 2014.
Okay, and how is the picture?
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post #1414 of 1765 Old 04-09-2015, 03:54 PM
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I got the update yesterday does anyone know what it does. I know it is probably the placebo effect but it seems my pic is brighter and generally better, is this even remotely possible. Thanks ron
They just pushed the update to me today, not sure what it changed either. 4.03.03 isnt even on the LG website for the 60pb6600
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post #1415 of 1765 Old 04-10-2015, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by MK1980 View Post
...
On brighter scenes 90 contrast I think is better looking compared to picture wizard recommended 95...
I played with this a little while waiting for Dave. I think it's scene dependent. Biased one way brighter scenes look better, biased the other way, dark scenes look better.
Frank
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post #1416 of 1765 Old 04-10-2015, 11:35 AM
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I think the ambient light plays a big role, as Dave's numbers show. I have light in the room, but not direct and find that depending on what I'm watching makes a big difference. Overall, after almost a year of use, I am quite happy.


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post #1417 of 1765 Old 04-10-2015, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Myron_H View Post
Okay, and how is the picture?
It's very good. Colors, white balance, detail and viewing angles are truly excellent (and size of course)
Negatives mostly for me are blacks which aren't that deep, I expected blacks on par with my 32-inch Philips Pixel Plus CRT set, but aren't close enough. And there's some dirty screen effect visible only on color slides, on real movie scenes I can't spot it.

And there's the one HDMI input issue but I'm gonna use a HDMI matrix switch anyway.

Overall I believe the 60PB5600 is a great value for money tv considering the asking price.
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post #1418 of 1765 Old 04-14-2015, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by mipi View Post
It's very good. Colors, white balance, detail and viewing angles are truly excellent (and size of course)
Negatives mostly for me are blacks which aren't that deep, I expected blacks on par with my 32-inch Philips Pixel Plus CRT set, but aren't close enough. And there's some dirty screen effect visible only on color slides, on real movie scenes I can't spot it.

And there's the one HDMI input issue but I'm gonna use a HDMI matrix switch anyway.

Overall I believe the 60PB5600 is a great value for money tv considering the asking price.
I agree with you. I just received my PB5600 yesterday. It replaced a Samsung 58" PN58C550. My Samsung had a anti-glare coating and when tv was off, the panel looked much darker, probably because of the coating. The LG black level is not as good, which is disappointing. The LG is also not as bright as my Samsung, but still bright enough properly calibrated in my living room. Glare is not an issue for me. I plugged in two LED Antec lighting strips to the USB port in the back for backlighting. One other thing I like, is that when a scene fades-to-black, the panel turns off, which makes it appear very black for that split second.

Negatives:
No HDMI control.
Slightly high black level but still better than most LCD.
Glossy screen.
One HDMI could be negative for some people.

Positives:
A lot of advanced color controls.
Selectable Gamma setting of 2.2/2.4
Natural colors, no red push or over saturation like Samsung.
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post #1419 of 1765 Old 04-15-2015, 08:59 PM
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So is there any tweak or anything for black level? It seems pretty bad on my tv, compared to my older Samsung plasma. I'm at the point where I may just return this TV. Would LG technician be able to do anything?
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post #1420 of 1765 Old 04-16-2015, 04:12 AM
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So is there any tweak or anything for black level? It seems pretty bad on my tv, compared to my older Samsung plasma. I'm at the point where I may just return this TV. Would LG technician be able to do anything?
Hello of course there is tweak but you have to open TV and play with Set UP and Set Down pots, fully clockwise is advice for both but many times not working OK must be adjusted to proper position to avoid pixel missfires, and etc. other issues. I am causion but I will do it in short time with my friend, without osciloscope it is more risky but many people succeeded here. I recommend you ISF calibration because without it the picture is not in perfect adjustment, consider where you will buy it seriously, I have been lucky in our region my set was calibrated by best calibrator. I am using same bias light behind TV as you have on your picture , regulated by remote controller, light is 6500k white temperature, it is improving black level dramatically. Have you adjusted picture with picture wizard? without instrumentation recommended is at least Expert settings with Warm2 white level adjusted, and brightness around 54 is for most people and by picture wizard correct, sharpness 5 is fine / no artifacts, colour amount 50, colour set to STANDARD and gamma I prefer 2,4, contrast around 90-96 is fine with panel light on 100. Anyhow after ISF calibration TV has returned missing punch feeling compared to my previous Samsung plasma but it has much better colours too, which is very visible.

Wish you luck

MK
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post #1421 of 1765 Old 04-16-2015, 04:44 AM
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Did the last update do anything significant?
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post #1422 of 1765 Old 04-17-2015, 05:14 AM
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Originally Posted by davehancock View Post
The following are the relevant settings for the BT1886 calibration on my display and Frank's display.
...............................Dave's ....Frank's
Mode..................... Expert1 ..Expert2
Panel Light ...............100 ..........90
Contrast ................... 98 ..........96
Brightness .................53...........54

Measured 100% .......48 ft-l......38 ft-l

Again, Frank has a much better controlled viewing situation than I have, so I was shooting for absolute peak white.

Also, these settings apply to the individual displays - they DO NOT necessarily APPLY TO OTHER DISPLAYS!
Thanks Dave it made my imagination about measured peak whites very clear , and as Frank mentioned in some way max whites are causing better looking dark scenes and opposite lowered peak whites are helping to more pleasantly looking brighter scenes, so I am keeping for now panel light 100, brightness 54, and contrast only 90 as was selected by my calibrator with peak white only 35,2 ft-l Enjoy your sets

MK
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post #1423 of 1765 Old 04-17-2015, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by MK1980 View Post
Hello of course there is tweak but you have to open TV and play with Set UP and Set Down pots, fully clockwise is advice for both but many times not working OK must be adjusted to proper position to avoid pixel missfires, and etc. other issues. I am causion but I will do it in short time with my friend, without osciloscope it is more risky but many people succeeded here. I recommend you ISF calibration because without it the picture is not in perfect adjustment, consider where you will buy it seriously, I have been lucky in our region my set was calibrated by best calibrator. I am using same bias light behind TV as you have on your picture , regulated by remote controller, light is 6500k white temperature, it is improving black level dramatically. Have you adjusted picture with picture wizard? without instrumentation recommended is at least Expert settings with Warm2 white level adjusted, and brightness around 54 is for most people and by picture wizard correct, sharpness 5 is fine / no artifacts, colour amount 50, colour set to STANDARD and gamma I prefer 2,4, contrast around 90-96 is fine with panel light on 100. Anyhow after ISF calibration TV has returned missing punch feeling compared to my previous Samsung plasma but it has much better colours too, which is very visible.

Wish you luck

MK
Ok why doesnt the factory adjust SetUP/Down pots properly, before they assemble? It's on assembly line, and I know they turn panel on to make sure it works.
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post #1424 of 1765 Old 04-17-2015, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Myron_H View Post
Ok why doesnt the factory adjust SetUP/Down pots properly, before they assemble? It's on assembly line, and I know they turn panel on to make sure it works.
As MK1980 stated, pixel misfires is the biggest reason. Keeping the voltage down also adds to the longevity of the panel and boards. LG will sacrifice some black level to allow for longer lasting components.
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post #1425 of 1765 Old 04-17-2015, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Myron_H View Post
Ok why doesnt the factory adjust SetUP/Down pots properly, before they assemble? It's on assembly line, and I know they turn panel on to make sure it works.
For all we know, the factory is setting the pots properly... you'll note a large degree of caution making this adjustment. Some folks have found poor results when the pots are max'ed out, and it's possible we're not seeing subtle defects caused by the adjustment.

Conversely, it's possible LG has the pots set on a test bench at their vendor, and assembles panels without more than a functional testing. That would be consistent with a commodity supplier.

HAve fun,
Frank
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post #1426 of 1765 Old 04-18-2015, 08:05 AM
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For all we know, the factory is setting the pots properly... you'll note a large degree of caution making this adjustment. Some folks have found poor results when the pots are max'ed out, and it's possible we're not seeing subtle defects caused by the adjustment.

Conversely, it's possible LG has the pots set on a test bench at their vendor, and assembles panels without more than a functional testing. That would be consistent with a commodity supplier.

HAve fun,
Frank
Having done the tweak, I will say that this makes a lot of sense. There are evident downsides, such as more image retention and I'm sure easier burn in is possible. On top of that the gains are not exactly substantial. I'm not exactly at the point I regret having done it, but if I was looking to extend the life of the television as long as possible, I would definitely turn them back. It runs hotter and has those artifacts. Like I said before, maybe a 10% gain on black level. Not that impressive.

I forgot to mention, I have had shift in calibration settings within 100 hours of the tweak. The set was already at 500 hours. I'm not sure if that is a bad sign or not.

Last edited by JP12; 04-18-2015 at 08:41 AM. Reason: Forgot to add info.
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post #1427 of 1765 Old 04-18-2015, 11:19 AM
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I wonder if it's for 3d? I was watching a 2.35:1 3d movie last night and the bars were substantially darker.
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post #1428 of 1765 Old 04-18-2015, 01:33 PM
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Having done the tweak, I will say that this makes a lot of sense. There are evident downsides, such as more image retention and I'm sure easier burn in is possible. On top of that the gains are not exactly substantial. I'm not exactly at the point I regret having done it, but if I was looking to extend the life of the television as long as possible, I would definitely turn them back. It runs hotter and has those artifacts. Like I said before, maybe a 10% gain on black level. Not that impressive.

I forgot to mention, I have had shift in calibration settings within 100 hours of the tweak. The set was already at 500 hours. I'm not sure if that is a bad sign or not.
I don't see how this tweak could make the panel run hotter nor increase burn in. You are only bringing down base black level, not increasing white contrast.
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post #1429 of 1765 Old 04-18-2015, 03:05 PM
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I don't see how this tweak could make the panel run hotter nor increase burn in. You are only bringing down base black level, not increasing white contrast.
Have you done the tweak? I can assure you that in my case it absolutely increased image retention, which in turn makes me worry more about burn in. I had none, now I have it all the time. It is easy to clear with color wash, but I feel the need to be vigilant about it.

The panel feels hotter to me, there is noticeable heat from two to three feet away. This was evident before, but I believe it was to a lesser extent. I can't say this part with absolution though.

I set both set_up and set_down fully clockwise. Perhaps that does mess with increasing white? I don't claim to be an expert...just sharing my experience with it. If you value your television, and hope to keep it for more than a few years...the benefit does not outweigh the risk IMHO unless you absolutely know what you are doing. It's an opinion, but one that someone who hasn't done the tweak might want to consider.
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post #1430 of 1765 Old 04-18-2015, 03:33 PM
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I haven't tried it myself. I actually submitted a support ticket with LG to have one of their technicians come out to do the tweak, since my TV is in warranty. Not sure why others would rather do it themselves if the TV is in warranty. Both of my plasma TV 's run fairly warm too from a couple feet away. it's surprising LG would hesitate to set this properly and would rather have longevity. Because these days with TV technology changing rapidly, these tvs go obsolete quickly. In two years time, a lot of people will go buy a new TV if this one goes out.
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post #1431 of 1765 Old 04-18-2015, 04:22 PM
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...it's surprising LG would hesitate to set this properly and would rather have longevity. Because these days with TV technology changing rapidly, these tvs go obsolete quickly. In two years time, a lot of people will go buy a new TV if this one goes out.
Deliberately designing a television that would have an expected lifespan of about two years would be corporate suicide.

When you bring home a new TV and use it for a few days you learn its capabilities. If you are satisfied with its performance you keep it. If you are not sufficiently happy with the TV you return it to the dealer for a refund or to exchange it for a different model (or an exchange for the same model should it be defective). Once you settle on a purchase you want it to last a long time. If a TV dies after only two years, the customer is not likely to buy that brand any time soon. He/she also will be quick to dissuade others from buying that brand, too.

Besides yourself, who would buy a television from a specific brand if it became known their units often self-destruct after about two years?
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post #1432 of 1765 Old 04-18-2015, 04:32 PM
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I haven't tried it myself. I actually submitted a support ticket with LG to have one of their technicians come out to do the tweak, since my TV is in warranty. Not sure why others would rather do it themselves if the TV is in warranty. Both of my plasma TV 's run fairly warm too from a couple feet away. it's surprising LG would hesitate to set this properly and would rather have longevity. Because these days with TV technology changing rapidly, these tvs go obsolete quickly. In two years time, a lot of people will go buy a new TV if this one goes out.
I suspect that the problem that you may run into would be that the TV tech will say that nothing is wrong with the TV. Unless you actually measure (with a meter traceable to NIST standards) AND the black level measured is above LG Specs (lots of luck finding that spec). the tech may say "it looks fine to me".

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I suspect that the problem that you may run into would be that the TV tech will say that nothing is wrong with the TV. Unless you actually measure (with a meter traceable to NIST standards) AND the black level measured is above LG Specs (lots of luck finding that spec). the tech may say "it looks fine to me".
The sad thing is that the black level is on par with my budget LED. The plasma does get the nod in shadow detail, color reproduction and saturation, screen uniformity, and motion blur. So, at $600 I couldn't bring myself to return it. It just isn't rational to expect a top tier display at $10 an inch.
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post #1434 of 1765 Old 04-18-2015, 10:52 PM
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I suspect that the problem that you may run into would be that the TV tech will say that nothing is wrong with the TV. Unless you actually measure (with a meter traceable to NIST standards) AND the black level measured is above LG Specs (lots of luck finding that spec). the tech may say "it looks fine to me".
If LG won't pop the back off and make the adjustments then it's there loss. Last TV with the name LG that I will buy. I've already contacted a local TV repair shop that can also make the adjustments if needed. They may be best since the owner has an electronics degree and all the equipment.
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post #1435 of 1765 Old 04-20-2015, 06:12 AM
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I suspect that the problem that you may run into would be that the TV tech will say that nothing is wrong with the TV. Unless you actually measure (with a meter traceable to NIST standards) AND the black level measured is above LG Specs (lots of luck finding that spec). the tech may say "it looks fine to me".
Dave, as an ISF calibrator, is the POTS tweak something you would consider doing? Or do you consider calibration enough?
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post #1436 of 1765 Old 04-20-2015, 08:48 AM
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Dave, as an ISF calibrator, is the POTS tweak something you would consider doing? Or do you consider calibration enough?
Good question!
Yes, I would CONSIDER this, but:
  • There are liability issues.
    • Physical vulnerability in disassembling the set to gain access.
    • Voiding the warranty of the display by opening it up.
  • Added time (can the added fees adequately compensate)
  • Additional equipment (scope).
Then there is the issue that Plasma's are effectively gone - so there is essentially no future in this.


Last, the black level apparently changes with time. Mine started at virtually 0 and went to 0.033 ft-l after 170 hours. (I'll check it again after 300 hrs).


Bottom line for me: No. (but I would be happy to calibrate a set that has had this done).
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post #1437 of 1765 Old 04-21-2015, 06:10 AM
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Good question!

Bottom line for me: No. (but I would be happy to calibrate a set that has had this done).
So Dave you also reconsider to this POT tweak , I mean you would not do it right? :P. I think it`s shame for just LG for last season of plasma models to still keep rising blacks like ok condition, it was issue with Panasonic in 2009-2010 models or etc. but later on they have solved it because it is making your happy purchase became confused one later on after rising blacks appears. Good point my black levels are really similar from beginning around 0,026ftl and still it is around same level, I saw once 2weeks ago image to blink and switch to little higher black level but 2days ago opposite happened it switched to little bit darker but it is just maybe still around 0,026ftl. What I am thinking LG shouldn`t allow to newest models this to happen, it is changing for all plasmas but not in that big amount not at all like in LG case, I am happy that mine set is more stable, hopefully all sets are rising just to some point and stay on that level for veery long time. After 2 years of warranty I think it`s better to do the tweak its better like to do before waranty expires to protect my money. After reading of higher image retention , more heat and missfires, graininess of whites after tweak I am strongly considering, but I feel cheated if blacks will rise in future on :P I think my set is more stable in this. My target are blacks like LG ph6700 0,013 ftl but without tweak just dream.

All people watching original Blu Rays in 24p mode pls reconsider to turn off 24p , it is rising blacks 2times more, and picture is looking absolutelly washed out for 2d and 3d blu rays as well, my confirmation of this is in review of 2012 lg plasma model 60pm6700 by Chad B. I don`t care for 24p in case I will have totally washed out blacks... it is 2times better with 24p off.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/167-pl...l#post21839301


Dave can you pls remeasure 1080i on your set if there is no yellow push when set is calibrated for 1080p? on 2012 60pm6700 it is mentioned by Chad B that there was this issue, and on my 1080i setop box I had kind of feeling picture is sometimes pushed more to yellow like picture on my Sony Blu ray player... colour shifting on many maschines is very known issue, after calibration still we cannot be shure that some equipment won`t shift calibrated colours too.

Thanks for possible feedback, looking forward to see you black level measurement after 300 hrs.

Regards
MK
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post #1438 of 1765 Old 04-21-2015, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Myron_H View Post
If LG won't pop the back off and make the adjustments then it's there loss. Last TV with the name LG that I will buy. I've already contacted a local TV repair shop that can also make the adjustments if needed. They may be best since the owner has an electronics degree and all the equipment.
pls share after LG visit or local tv repair shop, if there will be success or not, I wish you luck on this! "if" you will be happy with black improvement really consider good ISF calibration
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post #1439 of 1765 Old 04-21-2015, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by MK1980 View Post
Dave can you pls remeasure 1080i on your set if there is no yellow push when set is calibrated for 1080p? on 2012 60pm6700 it is mentioned by Chad B that there was this issue, and on my 1080i setop box I had kind of feeling picture is sometimes pushed more to yellow like picture on my Sony Blu ray player... colour shifting on many maschines is very known issue, after calibration still we cannot be shure that some equipment won`t shift calibrated colours too.

Thanks for possible feedback, looking forward to see you black level measurement after 300 hrs.
I (and Frank) have PN6900 sets - which are somewhat different than the sets many have. I ran into a problem with these sets using my Accupel HDG3000 signal generator. The 6900 wanted to recognize it as a 3D signal source and (even if I shut off the 3D) showed a double image (one on top of the other). I thus had to use the test software internal signal generator, which was at 1080i. I thus have no ability to use 1080p (unless I used test DVDs). However, I did these calibrations at 1080i, and did not encounter any color issues.

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post #1440 of 1765 Old 04-21-2015, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Myron_H View Post
If LG won't pop the back off and make the adjustments then it's there loss. Last TV with the name LG that I will buy. I've already contacted a local TV repair shop that can also make the adjustments if needed. They may be best since the owner has an electronics degree and all the equipment.
What I was trying to say is that in order for the TV tech to "fix" a problem, he first needs to see that there IS a problem. A customer's perception that the blacks are "weak" (a perception driven by an AVS thread that some customization of those pot settings may, in the short term, may IMPROVE blacks) does not, by itself, demonstrate the problem. What would do that is a 0% black level measurement in comparison to LG's black level spec. Most TV techs do not have the instrumentation on their truck to make that measurement, and I doubt that LG has published a "spec" for that black level, so even if he COULD measure that black level, he wouldn't know if it was OK or not. Therefore, he wouldn't know if there was something that needed to be fixed.
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