Why I Bought a Plasma HDTV in 2014 - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 1020 Old 06-16-2014, 03:15 PM
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If I didn't play so many video games, I'd go plasma, all the way. Although, burn-in has lessened over the last several years, I still don't want to take the risk, because there are occasions when I'm playing the same game for several hours in a row. That and video games really pop and look sharp on a nice, bright LCD. But, for movie watching, plasma can rarely be beaten, unless you have the sun beaming straight into your room.
in 2007i got my 1st plasma solely for gaming and movies ._.... I play different games no burn in what so ever .3 plasmas later 7 yrs. Later im super happy
No doubt, some people have better luck than others. When I worked at Circuit City, we'd have people bring their TV back after a week or so because some kind of channel logo or other static image was burned into their screen, same thing happened when I worked at Ultimate Electronics. Obviously, there's no way to tell if they had their set on torch mode or not. But, just the fact that it was possible was enough to scare me off.

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Of course, I got it modified with the TK-427, which cheeks it up another, maybe, 3 or 4 quads per channel.
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post #92 of 1020 Old 06-16-2014, 03:18 PM
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I went through 4 displays last year before finally settling on my Panny ST60. A Sony LCD EX500, LG LM6700, a Samsung direct-lit LED, and the Samsung F8500. I couldn't get past the flashlighting on the LCD's, and I couldn't get past the buzzing on the F8500. The VT60's fan noise scared me off, so the ST60 was the best compromise. I absolutely love being able to watch a movie in the dark without light bleed distracting me from the film.

But, I never understood the plasmas having superior motion argument. My #1 complaint of my ST60 is the motion, specifically the judder that accompanies any and all camera-pans. It's my only complaint, and one that I have chosen to live with.

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post #93 of 1020 Old 06-16-2014, 03:21 PM
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Mark-

You never seem to talk about the glare/reflectivity issue. I find the the reflections in the black rectangles of your checkerboard distracting.

I still don't understand why people make this into such an issue, when LED's have equally reflective screens. what happens on the screen is totally independent of what is happening behind it. lcd or plasma, both can have great(or terrible) filters applied, and that's what makes the difference
I don't like it on LCD's either.


I have an older LCD without glare.It pains me to see it on every new TV, plasma or LCD.

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post #94 of 1020 Old 06-16-2014, 03:24 PM
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I don't believe there are non-pentile 64F5300 plasma TVs. The Wal-Mart says nothing of the sort, and it is already sold out.
I know the 64H5000 is pentile....but the 64F8500 is not, correct?

I dont think the 64" F5300 is pentile.

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post #95 of 1020 Old 06-16-2014, 03:26 PM
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Plasamas remind me of old tube TVs....even when turned off. The dark gray glass.
if you don't give them a chance, you'll never find out the truth...
I wasnt bitching. I was expressing fond nostalgic endearment.

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post #96 of 1020 Old 06-16-2014, 03:26 PM
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after all this talk, I felt compelled. so here's a comparison of an old matte screen lcd vs the f8500


'best' case scenario, lighting near the tv, not in the rest of the room.(and I say 'best' because even this is much brighter than I'd ever want to watch tv)


I'd say it's a virtual tie as far as reflections and washing out the screen goes


'worst' case scenario, with tons of lighting in the viewing area to reflect off the screen. this really is a testimony of clear vs matte screens though

the choice you have to make is if you want a defined reflection of seats, lights, or whatever else is bright enough to be noticed, or have that light evenly spread out over the entire screen(works ok for dim lights or room reflections, but as can be seen in this photo, totally unwatchable with a bright light source)


and here's my beyond worse case, where I've turned the flash on to totally wash out both screen basically. I actually don't know if this photo really serves any purpose actually

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post #97 of 1020 Old 06-16-2014, 03:28 PM
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That's not a True Matte Screen LCD. People that have never seen one, dont know how good it can be.

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post #98 of 1020 Old 06-16-2014, 03:29 PM
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If I didn't play so many video games, I'd go plasma, all the way. Although, burn-in has lessened over the last several years, I still don't want to take the risk, because there are occasions when I'm playing the same game for several hours in a row. That and video games really pop and look sharp on a nice, bright LCD. But, for movie watching, plasma can rarely be beaten, unless you have the sun beaming straight into your room.
in 2007i got my 1st plasma solely for gaming and movies ._.... I play different games no burn in what so ever .3 plasmas later 7 yrs. Later im super happy
No doubt, some people have better luck than others. When I worked at Circuit City, we'd have people bring their TV back after a week or so because some kind of channel logo or other static image was burned into their screen, same thing happened when I worked at Ultimate Electronics. Obviously, there's no way to tell if they had their set on torch mode or not. But, just the fact that it was possible was enough to scare me off.

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It's a shame Dynamic can't be only tied to Shop mode. Take it home, set it up as it asks for Home, you only have the somewhat normal presets. No Dynamic entry in Home setup.
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post #99 of 1020 Old 06-16-2014, 03:31 PM
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Someone was saying that Pentile Matrix breaks up visible dithering patterns as well.

Im not sold on Pentile on Big Screen Plasmas though.

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post #100 of 1020 Old 06-16-2014, 03:31 PM
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It's the only way to go and cheaper than running a monitor behind a TV.
You could build your own. I'm in the process of making one with electronic dimming. I'm using a 6500k 98CRI 24" T8 fluorescent bulb as the basis. It's not going to be inexpensive, but it won't be $380 either.
The last I looked the $380 was for professional work. Actual content creation. Versus the $64 and $94 versions for viewing.


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Plasamas remind me of all tube TVs....even when turned off. The dark gray glass.

unfortunately it's overcast right now, but I snapped a pic of that same tv in 'daylight' and it looks basically the same to me. I'm not about to drag the f8500 to prove a point that's pretty obvious(to me), but I just don't understand where ppl are coming from. you'd think ever lcd ever made had zero reflections and a perfectly black screen?



I mean, yeah, it's reflective. it's a worst case scenario being a piece of flat glass and no filter on it. but that isn't the 'norm' and it definitely isn't the best plasma can offer. I would condemn lcd because a few of them had matte screen filters that make the image look 'fuzzy'. I realize that's a feature of the screen and not a limitation of the panel.
No, the grey part in strong light. Not how reflective it is. Look at the ZT. You can see the grey in light.

I'm sure I know what you are talking about, it's something that did really bother me about the b530 in the pics above. but it's also more reflective so it's hard to even see the fact it's not black in that pic. but I still stand by my post. it's about the filter, and it doesn't HAVE to be that way. one of the first things that I noticed when I brought home the f8500 vs my old cheap plasma was how it's blacks looked blacker with the lights on, similar to what some lcd's do. of course, it was nice that they stayed near black when the lights went off.


so, yeah, I get that the reflections are a separate issue. I still don't agree it's a problem with plasma, it's an issue with the screen filters, or lack there of.
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post #101 of 1020 Old 06-16-2014, 03:33 PM
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That's not a True Matte Screen LCD. People that have never seen one, dont know how good it can be.
A: I never said it was
B: I never said what TV it was, so you don't really know what it is either
C: it's still an accurate representation of how 'black' the screen looks, which is the issue being discussed.
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post #102 of 1020 Old 06-16-2014, 03:34 PM
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Plasamas remind me of old tube TVs....even when turned off. The dark gray glass.
if you don't give them a chance, you'll never find out the truth...
I wasnt bitching. I was expressing fond nostalgic endearment.
Yes, it was just one of those pointing out observing moments I've noticed seeing peoples pictures of Kuro's and my Panasonic when off during the day.
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post #103 of 1020 Old 06-16-2014, 03:35 PM
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[QUOTE=vinnie123;25015050]A bit off topic, is it worth it for me to upgrade from a Panasonic VIERA TC-P54VT25 (2010) to a VT60 (2013)? I have a potential trade in the works, but I would have to add cash...[/QUOTE.



I would not. Most if not all plasma's on the shelves still are risky at best. With that said, if you can find a verified new VT60 that has never been opened, returned, refurbished, or repaired, go for thr VT60. Also remember that Panasonic quit making plasma all together. If your tv needs parts or breaks, it will be difficult to find replacement boards since that model has been discontinued the day it came out. You have to make the choice. But if you do go for the VT60, pay to have it pro calibrated. I am not talking about BestBuy calibration. Find a local pro calibrator and spend the money. I promise you the money spent will be worth it.
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post #104 of 1020 Old 06-16-2014, 03:36 PM
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fierce could you clearly label what sets are in each picture. Im finding it hard to follow your pics.

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post #105 of 1020 Old 06-16-2014, 03:39 PM
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Plasamas remind me of old tube TVs....even when turned off. The dark gray glass.
if you don't give them a chance, you'll never find out the truth...
I wasnt bitching. I was expressing fond nostalgic endearment.
Yes, it was just one of those pointing out observing moments I've noticed seeing peoples pictures of Kuro's and my Panasonic when off during the day.
I guess it's pretty silly we're doing all this about how a tv looks when it's off, haha. we all know it's how it looks when it's on that really matters
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post #106 of 1020 Old 06-16-2014, 03:43 PM
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fierce could you clearly label what sets are in each picture. Im finding it hard to follow your pics.
the large glossy one that looks 'grey' when off is a 50" Samsung b530(one pic in basement, pic in living room)
the large nice looking one that looks black all the time is a Samsung f8500(all pics of it in basement)
the tiny matter screen one is some cheap lcd we bought for the treadmill like 80yrs ago...(I have no idea, it's been around since 19" no-name lcd's cost 300bux, cause that's what I believe we paid for it)


the difference in the TV's is pretty obvious, if you know there's only 2 of them(well 3 if you count the little lcd)
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post #107 of 1020 Old 06-16-2014, 03:45 PM
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Thanks for the clarification fierce.

I saw that coating at Magnolias on the F8500. I didnt care for it. It reminded me of the coating that Panasonic put on their 77U series back in 2008. Is something similar on the ZT series Panasonics from 2013?

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post #108 of 1020 Old 06-16-2014, 03:50 PM
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I liked the filters/coatings on the Samsung E6500/E7000/E8000 plasmas. It looks like your B530 may have something similar....gives purplish magenta muted reflections. (Like a good Magnesium Flouride mutlicoating on binoculars.)

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post #109 of 1020 Old 06-16-2014, 04:02 PM
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It made me think of spilt biro ink.
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post #110 of 1020 Old 06-16-2014, 04:02 PM
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I don't believe there are non-pentile 64F5300 plasma TVs. The Wal-Mart says nothing of the sort, and it is already sold out.
The 64F5300 is non pentile.
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post #111 of 1020 Old 06-16-2014, 04:06 PM
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Thanks for the clarification fierce.

I saw that coating at Magnolias on the F8500. I didnt care for it. It reminded me of the coating that Panasonic put on their 77U series back in 2008. Is something similar on the ZT series Panasonics from 2013?
as far as negatives go. it reminds me of watching an old RPTV. if you stand up in front of it, the picture gets dark. from my viewing distance it's never an issue, and handles overhead lighting better than anything else I've seen. lightings that in front of the screen/behind you head though is basically unaffected. it's always best to avoid reflecting light off the screen, but at least it helps if that's unavoidable.


the ZT does have an aggressive filter on it as well, but I didn't think it was nearly as noticeable as the one of the f8500. the 'louver filter' name sounds very applicable. that's kind of how I view the f8500. imagine having venetian blinds right in front of the screen, but they are thin enough that if you look straight on it's invisible. vertically there's a huge effect, but horizontally basically none.

I've spent far less time with the ZT, but it seemed like any other good filter to me. it helped with reflections, and keeping black levels low when the lights go on, but not to the same degree as the f8500. the zt filter is probably the better filter overall, as it's got less negative effects, but the f8500 filter handles overhead lighting better than anything else imo.
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post #112 of 1020 Old 06-16-2014, 04:09 PM
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I liked the filters/coatings on the Samsung E6500/E7000/E8000 plasmas. It looks like your B530 may have something similar....gives purplish magenta muted reflections. (Like a good Magnesium Flouride mutlicoating on binoculars.)
it does tint things redish, but I don't believe it was ever considered an 'anti-reflective' filter. in any event, it is highly affected by room lighting, and definitely not something I'd recommend to anybody
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post #113 of 1020 Old 06-16-2014, 04:11 PM
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Ill pass on both.

As I said, I prefer the purplish muted reflections on the Sammy upper tier E series....but their black levels werent all that.

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post #114 of 1020 Old 06-16-2014, 04:13 PM
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I liked the filters/coatings on the Samsung E6500/E7000/E8000 plasmas. It looks like your B530 may have something similar....gives purplish magenta muted reflections. (Like a good Magnesium Flouride mutlicoating on binoculars.)
it does tint things redish, but I don't believe it was ever considered an 'anti-reflective' filter. in any event, it is highly affected by room lighting, and definitely not something I'd recommend to anybody
Looks like a near textbook example of an optical Magnesium Flouride AR multicoating.

I dont care for the louvre filters or the diffusion filters because they negatively affect the light coming from the panel as well.

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post #115 of 1020 Old 06-16-2014, 04:17 PM - Thread Starter
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I liked the filters/coatings on the Samsung E6500/E7000/E8000 plasmas. It looks like your B530 may have something similar....gives purplish magenta muted reflections. (Like a good Magnesium Flouride mutlicoating on binoculars.)
it does tint things redish, but I don't believe it was ever considered an 'anti-reflective' filter. in any event, it is highly affected by room lighting, and definitely not something I'd recommend to anybody
Looks like a near textbook example of an optical Magnesium Flouride AR multicoating.

I dont care for the louvre filters or the diffusion filters because they negatively affect the light coming from the panel as well.
I'm quite happy with the bare-bones screen on the F5300, once the room goes dark. Every now and then I do wish the blacks were just a bit deeper/darker, but it's rare to even have a scene where that's as issue, usually the contrast makes everything seem really deep and inky.

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post #116 of 1020 Old 06-16-2014, 04:20 PM
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I liked the filters/coatings on the Samsung E6500/E7000/E8000 plasmas. It looks like your B530 may have something similar....gives purplish magenta muted reflections. (Like a good Magnesium Flouride mutlicoating on binoculars.)
it does tint things redish, but I don't believe it was ever considered an 'anti-reflective' filter. in any event, it is highly affected by room lighting, and definitely not something I'd recommend to anybody
Looks like a near textbook example of an optical Magnesium Flouride AR multicoating.

I dont care for the louvre filters or the diffusion filters because they negatively affect the light coming from the panel as well.
I'm quite happy with the bare-bones screen on the F5300, once the room goes dark. Every now and then I do wish the blacks were just a bit deeper/darker, but it's rare to even have a scene where that's as issue, usually the contrast makes everything seem really deep and inky.
Yeah, Ill probably bet the owner of a 51F5300 before the end of the year. I looked into maybe getting an 51E6500/E7000 but the black levels are measured better on these F5300s....plus they are easier to come by and come with satisfaction guaranteed easy returns if their is an issue.

Epson 8350 / Panasonic AX-200u / Optoma Graywolf 92" / Draper Luma 92"
Samsung 51F8500 / Panasonic P50ST60 / Vizio P502ui-B1E / Sony 50W700B
Sony S790 / Panasonic BDT-220 / Roku 2 XS & Roku 2
Sony NT5 / Samsung F550 / Speakercraft CS3 / Yamaha YAS-105

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post #117 of 1020 Old 06-16-2014, 04:20 PM
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Lets face it Scott, I realize you've been promoting UHD LCD's, but I've spent enough time over at the former Home Theater Magazine blog to know that your a PDP man at heart.

Regards,
Ian
Well, it was Mark Henninger who posted this piece, but you're right, I am a plasma man at heart! Nice to see you here...
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Looking at any display on a sun light is not the best experience.
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post #119 of 1020 Old 06-16-2014, 04:28 PM
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Ill pass on both.

As I said, I prefer the purplish muted reflections on the Sammy upper tier E series....but their black levels werent all that.
see the reflections on my b530 are not muted at all, they are just tinted weird, haha. at the time I fell for marketing, I should have bought another CRT RPTV, but assumed newer was better, and $1000 50" plasma had to be better than a $1000 CRT right? didn't realize I needed to go up quite a few tiers before plasma was all that. maybe the 8-series had good blacks and an anti-reflective coating, I never looked at one. I do know the 6-series lcd I bought a few years later(d630) was noticeably blacker and less reflective than that b530 plasma. course, the f8500 destroys both of them in nearly every way(I still give the d630 the edge in motion because it has WAY more customizable processing that allows me to use some dejudder without getting SOE)


I would say the ZT would have been more to your liking. as I said, it wasn't ever really apparent to me. it just reduced reflections without ever making its presence obvious.
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post #120 of 1020 Old 06-16-2014, 04:32 PM
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Ill pass on both.

As I said, I prefer the purplish muted reflections on the Sammy upper tier E series....but their black levels werent all that.
see the reflections on my b530 are not muted at all, they are just tinted weird, haha. at the time I fell for marketing, I should have bought another CRT RPTV, but assumed newer was better, and $1000 50" plasma had to be better than a $1000 CRT right? didn't realize I needed to go up quite a few tiers before plasma was all that. maybe the 8-series had good blacks and an anti-reflective coating, I never looked at one. I do know the 6-series lcd I bought a few years later(d630) was noticeably blacker and less reflective than that b530 plasma. course, the f8500 destroys both of them in nearly every way(I still give the d630 the edge in motion because it has WAY more customizable processing that allows me to use some dejudder without getting SOE)


I would say the ZT would have been more to your liking. as I said, it wasn't ever really apparent to me. it just reduced reflections without ever making its presence obvious.
The way classic Magnesium Floride multicoatings work is that they mute reflections in most of the visible spectrum, but leave some at the ends of the visible spectrum, the reds and violets....thus the purplish magenta muted reflections.

It's most definitely not marketing hype.

Here are some newly multicoated widefield Erfle oculars on some WWII German Flak glasses.



A Camera lens.


Epson 8350 / Panasonic AX-200u / Optoma Graywolf 92" / Draper Luma 92"
Samsung 51F8500 / Panasonic P50ST60 / Vizio P502ui-B1E / Sony 50W700B
Sony S790 / Panasonic BDT-220 / Roku 2 XS & Roku 2
Sony NT5 / Samsung F550 / Speakercraft CS3 / Yamaha YAS-105

Last edited by EscapeVelocity; 06-16-2014 at 04:36 PM.
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