Pioneer KRP-500M step-by-step Red Tint Removal Guide (Non Reset panels) - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 84 Old 04-02-2015, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post
Try setting VOL SUS back to 128 and reduce YSUS to 127 or 126. My Kuro Command program does not cause a timeout after issuing the FAN command, but you really don't need to issue it. FACS00 should suffice.
That worked! Thanks so much Maka. Red tint levels are way down (I dropped 1, 3 and 4 to the minimum factory recommended settings) but I might try dipping a little below those to try to achieve what Tubby did. Thanks Tubby for the guide!

I dropped YSUS down to 126, which removed the pink pixels while in ISF-Night mode. There's still a hint of them when using ISF-Day; am I going to see any adverse effects from dropping YSUS down to 125 or 124?
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post #32 of 84 Old 04-02-2015, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Northern_Lights View Post
That worked! Thanks so much Maka. Red tint levels are way down (I dropped 1, 3 and 4 to the minimum factory recommended settings) but I might try dipping a little below those to try to achieve what Tubby did. Thanks Tubby for the guide!

I dropped YSUS down to 126, which removed the pink pixels while in ISF-Night mode. There's still a hint of them when using ISF-Day; am I going to see any adverse effects from dropping YSUS down to 125 or 124?
Not that I know of. YSUS is a very coarse adjustment and in my testing, discovered each tick decrease being equal to about a 30 tick increase of VOL SUS.

What you may want to do is leave it at 126 and increase VOL SUS to fine tune until the sparkles are gone on ISF-Day. Or you could decrease YSUS one more tick and be done with it.

I've read of some keeping YSUS and XSUS at the same values but never tried it myself.

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post #33 of 84 Old 04-02-2015, 08:59 PM
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Are these values only for 500m, or can they be used with other 9G Kuros? I have a modified 5020fd "e-lite." and have run into the magenta sparkles problem myself (only when it's roughly solid white--in normal scenes, there are no sparkles). I have controlcal to manipulate values.
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post #34 of 84 Old 04-02-2015, 09:55 PM
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Does raising the VOL SUS raise the ml? If I raise it, it clearly takes care of the problem, but I don't want to do it at that expense (because it only shows up under unique circumstances).
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post #35 of 84 Old 04-03-2015, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by HTNUT1975 View Post
Does raising the VOL SUS raise the ml? If I raise it, it clearly takes care of the problem, but I don't want to do it at that expense (because it only shows up under unique circumstances).
No it does not, but it does slightly (and I mean very slightly) raise your peak light output.

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post #36 of 84 Old 07-08-2015, 11:56 PM
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Still have glow

First off, I have a 141FD with 7K hours on it. When I go to the 5% screen, I fail the glow test miserably. I clearly see three boxes, the 5%, the screen and the bezel and the difference between the screen and bezel is clear. I have not tried the reset, but instead came here. My original settings:

VOL SUS: 128
VOL OFFSET: 068
VOL RST P: 036
VOL XPOFS1: 105
VOL XPOFS2: 063
VOL YKNOFS1 D: 086
VOL YKNOFS3 D: 096
VOL YKNOFS4 D: 143
VOL YKNOFSA D: 128

New voltage settings: (Maybe slightly less glow but still there)

VOL RST P: 001
VOL YKNOFS1 D: 66
VOL YKNOFS3 D: 76
VOL YKNOFS4 D: 123

I also tried returning everything to the original values, then setting YKNOFSA to 80 as suggested by pg_ice here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/167-pl...l#post24201565

That did make the black pretty blotchy and put a bunch of red pixels in the 5% field, so I undid that one.

Will walking through the reset make a difference here? Any other suggestions?

BTW: What's the nuttiness with the serial cable? I just used the network port. Do the older Kuros not have one?

Thanks
mp


Last edited by mpatnode; 07-18-2015 at 09:12 AM.
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post #37 of 84 Old 07-09-2015, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpatnode View Post
First off, I have a 141FD with 7K hours on it. When I go to the 5% screen, I fail the glow test miserably. I clearly see three boxes, the 5%, the screen and the bezel and the difference between the screen and bezel is clear. I have not tried the reset, but instead came here. My original settings:

VOL SUS: 128
VOL OFFSET: 068
VOL RST P: 036
VOL XPOFS1: 085
VOL XPOFS2: 063
VOL YKNOFS1 D: 086
VOL YKNOFS3 D: 096
VOL YKNOFS4 D: 143
VOL YKNOFSA D: 128

New voltage settings: (Maybe slightly less glow but still there)

VOL RST P: 001
VOL YKNOFS1 D: 66
VOL YKNOFS3 D: 76
VOL YKNOFS4 D: 123

I also tried returning everything to the original values, then setting YKNOFSA to 80 as suggested by pg_ice here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/167-pl...l#post24201565

That did make the black pretty blotchy and put a bunch of red pixels in the 5% field, so I undid that one.

Will walking through the reset make a difference here? Any other suggestions?

BTW: What's the nuttiness with the serial cable? I just used the network port. Do the older Kuros not have one?

Thanks
mp
Your settings
RSTP 001
FS1 66
FS3 76
FS4 123
are going to be close to as low as you can go , you can try droping S1 S3 and S4 another 10 clicks each and chk for artifacts , the 60" panels will not get as black as some of the 50" panels so you will always see a glow under certain conditions , please do not do a reset unless you can use the back up method .

Last edited by qwknuf6; 07-09-2015 at 08:56 AM.
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post #38 of 84 Old 07-09-2015, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by qwknuf6 View Post
Your settings
RSTP 001
FS1 66
FS3 76
FS4 123
are going to be close to as low as you can go , you can try droping S1 S3 and S4 another 10 clicks each and chk for artifacts , the 60" panels will not get as black as some of the 50" panels so you will always see a glow under certain conditions , please do not do a reset unless you can use the back up method .
Thanks. I think I'm already seeing noise in dark backgrounds. Is upping RSTP the way to clean that up? The opening dream scene in S2E3 of True Detective looked awful, but maybe it was supposed to because it was a dream. I'll have to test with some content I'm more familiar with. Is there a good noise test on the HD 709 or DVE discs?

I'm not going to do the full reset unless there's another 141 owner out there who can tell me it helped more than just the adjustments.

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post #39 of 84 Old 07-09-2015, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpatnode View Post
First off, I have a 141FD with 7K hours on it. When I go to the 5% screen, I fail the glow test miserably. I clearly see three boxes, the 5%, the screen and the bezel and the difference between the screen and bezel is clear. I have not tried the reset, but instead came here. My original settings:

VOL SUS: 128
VOL OFFSET: 068
VOL RST P: 036
VOL XPOFS1: 085
VOL XPOFS2: 063
VOL YKNOFS1 D: 086
VOL YKNOFS3 D: 096
VOL YKNOFS4 D: 143
VOL YKNOFSA D: 128

New voltage settings: (Maybe slightly less glow but still there)

VOL RST P: 001
VOL YKNOFS1 D: 66
VOL YKNOFS3 D: 76
VOL YKNOFS4 D: 123

I also tried returning everything to the original values, then setting YKNOFSA to 80 as suggested by pg_ice here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/167-pl...l#post24201565

That did make the black pretty blotchy and put a bunch of red pixels in the 5% field, so I undid that one.

Will walking through the reset make a difference here? Any other suggestions?

BTW: What's the nuttiness with the serial cable? I just used the network port. Do the older Kuros not have one?

Thanks
mp
Blindly chasing "0 blacks" and forcing a display that was not designed to go that low is asking for trouble no matter what model Kuro you own. Not only will you see the misfires that you saw, but your picture quality will be affected. The 5% glow test is a joke of a barometer, especially if you're using it on a 9th generation Kuro (any model other than the 101fd or 500m), as you are aiming for performance that these sets were not designed to achieve.

I have a 141fd with 8000 hours (and had a 151fd in the past) and have done endless testing with voltage tweaks and resets (using ShockFett's back up method). All I can tell you is that lowering rstp to 1 and sad by no more than 15 ticks is the best and safest course of action. Resetting the pulse meter on a 60 inch should be avoided at all costs if not using the back up method, as removing the inevitable post reset misfires is no easy task. I was able to do so, but my panel was back at square 1 (i.e. it looked exactly like it did pre-reset). I ended up restoring my pre reset state via the backup method.

The black level on a 60 inch will "look" like "0 black" after resetting the pulse meter. However, the resulting misfires make the TV unwatchable.

This "0 black on a black field" and "5% glow test" nonsense are giving people unrealistic expectations with regards to Kuro and people are forgetting that, even though the Kuro can't achieve these, the black level looks superb ON REAL CONTENT.
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post #40 of 84 Old 07-09-2015, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post
This "0 black on a black field" and "5% glow test" nonsense are giving people unrealistic expectations with regards to Kuro and people are forgetting that, even though the Kuro can't achieve these, the black level looks superb ON REAL CONTENT.
But won't all the other kids in the forum make fun of me? Seriously: That's probably the best advice so far. Truth is I wasn't noticing much red in the blacks to begin with, but just thought after 7K hours some tweeking could help.
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post #41 of 84 Old 07-09-2015, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by mpatnode View Post
But won't all the other kids in the forum make fun of me? Seriously: That's probably the best advice so far. Truth is I wasn't noticing much red in the blacks to begin with, but just thought after 7K hours some tweeking could help.
If you have no red tint and simply want to tweak the black level, then set RSTP to 1 and reduce SAD to no lower than 113 (i.e. no more than 15 tick reduction). If you see any artifacts on content then back off on the SAD reduction in 5 tick increments.

You may be able to squeeze out a 20 tick reduction from SAD, but keep your eyes open for artifacts before you commit to it.

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post #42 of 84 Old 07-12-2015, 11:32 PM
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OK. Things are looking pretty good now. During this whole process I switched by BD player from RGB to YUV and that probably had the biggest effect. I also stumbled across the HDMI RGB auto switch bug when I changed the input back to the HTPC, so I just went ahead and switched the Intel graphics to YUV mode along with the monitor. Previously, I ran my HTPC through a separate DVI connector, but changed that with a new receiver upgrade (not worth explaining why here).


Anyways, after all that, I have one strange problem, slightly off-topic, but possibly related to something in the maintenance menu. I've somehow lost the small screen overlay I used to see each time I switched Video modes (Pure -> Standard -> Movie -> etc..) as well as screen size (Full -> Dot by Dot -> 4:3 -> etc...). Any idea how I turned that off and more importantly, how I get them back?


When I hit the display/info button now, nothing happens. Otherwise everything seems fine. Did a couple searches on this, but as you can imagine video mode, screen size and display get a number of hits on this site...

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post #43 of 84 Old 07-13-2015, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by mpatnode View Post
OK. Things are looking pretty good now. During this whole process I switched by BD player from RGB to YUV and that probably had the biggest effect. I also stumbled across the HDMI RGB auto switch bug when I changed the input back to the HTPC, so I just went ahead and switched the Intel graphics to YUV mode along with the monitor. Previously, I ran my HTPC through a separate DVI connector, but changed that with a new receiver upgrade (not worth explaining why here).

Anyways, after all that, I have one strange problem, slightly off-topic, but possibly related to something in the maintenance menu. I've somehow lost the small screen overlay I used to see each time I switched Video modes (Pure -> Standard -> Movie -> etc..) as well as screen size (Full -> Dot by Dot -> 4:3 -> etc...). Any idea how I turned that off and more importantly, how I get them back?


When I hit the display/info button now, nothing happens. Otherwise everything seems fine. Did a couple searches on this, but as you can imagine video mode, screen size and display get a number of hits on this site...
This is why i am not a fan of kuro control. It turns the on screen display off when you connect and doesnt turn it back on when you disconnect.

Issue the osds01 command to bring back the on screen display.

You may want to try my Kuro command program. Easier to use, simple interface (literally a command line), faster and works on all 9th and 9.5 gen Kuros. Check the link on my sig.
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Last edited by makaveddie81; 07-13-2015 at 09:49 AM.
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post #44 of 84 Old 07-13-2015, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post
This is why i am not a fan of kuro control. It turns the on screen display off when you connect and doesnt turn it back on when you disconnect.

Issue the osds01 command to bring back the on screen display.

You may want to try my Kuro command program. Easier to use, simple interface (literally a command line), faster and works on all 9th and 9.5 gen Kuros. Check the link on my sig.

Thanks again. That was it.

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post #45 of 84 Old 07-19-2015, 03:35 AM
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ok so i adjusted the voltages per this guide and my red tint is completely gone and the blacks are ridiculous. I used Tubby's settings except i added +10 to S1, S3, S4. How do i check for artifacts and general stability? Sometimes when I hit menu I get a slight hint of black rain, but if that's all it is I really dont care. The picture is amazing.

What are the tests? I read about combi masks but I don't know how to access them. Thanks!!
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post #46 of 84 Old 07-22-2015, 07:48 PM
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Whiter Whites?

So after all that fun, I picked up yet another calibration disk (because you really can't have less than 3!), this time the Disney WOW BD. I've used the AVS 709 HD disk in the past, but the white clipping screen on the WOW disc seemed much easier to understand. There's an image here:

http://www.cnet.com/pictures/reviewe...screenshots/3/

So even at contrast set at 60, I couldn't get the -4% star to disappear without completely blowing out the brightness. And I have to confess, the 0% white looks a little yellow/gray to me. I've reset all my voltages to factory default.

With contrast at 40, and brightness at -1, I'm able to get all the brightness/black tests to look great (on all discs). Meanwhile, the AVS 709 tutorial recommends you don't clip any of your whites. Any thoughts? Are these tests invalid for the Kuro? Is it a YUV vs RGB issue?

Thanks. Sorry if this has gone off topic.

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post #47 of 84 Old 07-22-2015, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpatnode View Post
So after all that fun, I picked up yet another calibration disk (because you really can't have less than 3!), this time the Disney WOW BD. I've used the AVS 709 HD disk in the past, but the white clipping screen on the WOW disc seemed much easier to understand. There's an image here:

http://www.cnet.com/pictures/reviewe...screenshots/3/

So even at contrast set at 60, I couldn't get the -4% star to disappear without completely blowing out the brightness. And I have to confess, the 0% white looks a little yellow/gray to me. I've reset all my voltages to factory default.

With contrast at 40, and brightness at -1, I'm able to get all the brightness/black tests to look great (on all discs). Meanwhile, the AVS 709 tutorial recommends you don't clip any of your whites. Any thoughts? Are these tests invalid for the Kuro? Is it a YUV vs RGB issue?

Thanks. Sorry if this has gone off topic.
"Calibrating" with discs is a waste of time and cover a very small fraction of what a calibration really is.
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post #48 of 84 Old 07-23-2015, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by mpatnode View Post
So after all that fun, I picked up yet another calibration disk (because you really can't have less than 3!), this time the Disney WOW BD. I've used the AVS 709 HD disk in the past, but the white clipping screen on the WOW disc seemed much easier to understand. There's an image here:

http://www.cnet.com/pictures/reviewe...screenshots/3/

So even at contrast set at 60, I couldn't get the -4% star to disappear without completely blowing out the brightness. And I have to confess, the 0% white looks a little yellow/gray to me. I've reset all my voltages to factory default.

With contrast at 40, and brightness at -1, I'm able to get all the brightness/black tests to look great (on all discs). Meanwhile, the AVS 709 tutorial recommends you don't clip any of your whites. Any thoughts? Are these tests invalid for the Kuro? Is it a YUV vs RGB issue?

Thanks. Sorry if this has gone off topic.
You also have to mindful of not clipping RGB (red, green, blue). Just because you can still see the star is meaningless if you start clipping any of the RGB, and begin tinging white with shades of red green ot blue because you begun to clip one or two of the other componants.

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post #49 of 84 Old 07-24-2015, 04:33 PM
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I gotta say with the new voltages, my love for the Kuro has been rekindled. I'm very thankful for this community and the smart people who are able to figure out these fixes. Kudos, my display has never looked so good!
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post #50 of 84 Old 07-29-2015, 11:42 AM
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I'm late to the party on this issue but noticed out of the blue one night that the black level on my 5020fd wasn't what it once was. By the time I dragged my desktop PC out of my office and got ControlCal working it was very late on a work night, so I sort of rushed through the procedure and lowered the values to the lowest in the Pioneer spec table. I didn't see any black rain or any other problems, and the blacks were indeed black again.

Fast forward a few days and I noticed a cloud of swarming dark pixels in bright content when I'm standing very close to the TV. This is not at all visible from my usual viewing location, but I can't stand to know that it's happening (and am a little concerned that it might be causing some sort of damage), so I raised the voltages until these dark specks were all gone.

My RST P is still low, which seems to have removed the reddish tint, but I had to raise S1, S3, and S4 to almost their original values, so my inky blacks are gone.

From the images I've seen of "black rain" in this thread, this was not my problem, but there were smaller misfires on all bright material. Anybody have any advice on how to proceed?
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post #51 of 84 Old 07-29-2015, 12:25 PM
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I'm late to the party on this issue but noticed out of the blue one night that the black level on my 5020fd wasn't what it once was. By the time I dragged my desktop PC out of my office and got ControlCal working it was very late on a work night, so I sort of rushed through the procedure and lowered the values to the lowest in the Pioneer spec table. I didn't see any black rain or any other problems, and the blacks were indeed black again.

Fast forward a few days and I noticed a cloud of swarming dark pixels in bright content when I'm standing very close to the TV. This is not at all visible from my usual viewing location, but I can't stand to know that it's happening (and am a little concerned that it might be causing some sort of damage), so I raised the voltages until these dark specks were all gone.

My RST P is still low, which seems to have removed the reddish tint, but I had to raise S1, S3, and S4 to almost their original values, so my inky blacks are gone.

From the images I've seen of "black rain" in this thread, this was not my problem, but there were smaller misfires on all bright material. Anybody have any advice on how to proceed?
My 5020, which was plagued by red tint, displayed aqua colored misfires on white after I lowered S1, S3 and S4. Like yours, the misfires would go away only if I set S1, S3 and S4 to default but that meant a return of red tint and higher black level.

I ended up resetting the pulse meter using the "safe" method to allow me to revert the reset, increased VOL SUS, increased S1, S3 and S4 (or SAD) until combi mask 6 was clear of misfires and raised RSTP until black rain was gone ( I could have left it alone as there was hardly any black rain). Sure enough, my black level improved and the misfires were completely gone. Keep in mind, I used this panel as a guinea pig since it only cost me $250.

I don't recommend you do this, especially if you're barely getting your feet wet with Kuro tweaking. What I do suggest you try is increase VOL SUS one tick at a time and see if the misfires go away. The misfires were there right after I reset the pulse meter and an increase to VOL SUS effectively removed the misfires. However, the misfires returned if I increased VOL SUS too high, hence my suggestion to increase it one tick at a time.

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post #52 of 84 Old 08-24-2015, 06:30 PM
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i lowered my voltages to VOL YKNOFS1 D: 78
VOL YKNOFS3 D: 68
VOL YKNOFS4 D: 89
stock settings were s1-138
s2-128
s4-149

the only thing i see is black rain on the menus when cycling thru them ,whats the limit on how low u can go ,what are the effects if i go lower ,and will this eventually destroy my panel. the black levels are insane ,my calibrated zt ,with a bias light can't touch the kuro .
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post #53 of 84 Old 08-25-2015, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Scurrah View Post
i lowered my voltages to VOL YKNOFS1 D: 78
VOL YKNOFS3 D: 68
VOL YKNOFS4 D: 89
stock settings were s1-138
s2-128
s4-149

the only thing i see is black rain on the menus when cycling thru them ,whats the limit on how low u can go ,what are the effects if i go lower ,and will this eventually destroy my panel. the black levels are insane ,my calibrated zt ,with a bias light can't touch the kuro .
You left SAD alone at 128? I think somewhere here someone posted the service manual and it has the acceptable voltage ranges for you 500M.

The television screen is the retina of the mind's eye.
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post #54 of 84 Old 08-25-2015, 04:03 PM
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the only ones I touched were s1 s2 s3 and p was changed from 18 to 1 and no did not touch sad it is at 128, I am way below the recommended voltages for s 1 s2 s3
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post #55 of 84 Old 08-25-2015, 06:48 PM
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So I dove in one more time and I think I'm just about done. My last experiment was to put everything back to defaults and just lower SAD to 100. Lots of black rain/lag on menus and even on some regular viewing.

Tonight I put SAD back to its default at 128 and lowered 1, 3, and 4 to the min level for each. Blacks very deep and inky and no lag on regular viewing with a small amount on menus. So I decided to drop SAD 8 clicks to 120 and now the blacks are even better. No lag on regular viewing. I'm going to watch the panel for a couple of days and see if I should bring SAD back to default. Otherwise I think I'm done other than getting out the calibration dvd to make some final adjustments.

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post #56 of 84 Old 08-25-2015, 07:00 PM
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im 8 clicks below tubbys setting on s1 2 and 3 ,the blacks are insane ,only effect is black rain on the menu sometimes.no lag no artifacts .and it has no glow in a fully black room ,u can't tell if the tv is on with content .the only time i get lag and artifacts is if i set them all at 40. at stock settings i have red tinted blacks and higher than normal black levels
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post #57 of 84 Old 08-25-2015, 07:02 PM
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only drawback its making my zt look bad
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post #58 of 84 Old 08-25-2015, 07:03 PM
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My worry is crushed blacks at the moment. I'll see if I need to go a few clicks higher in a few days after I let this new setting settle in.

The television screen is the retina of the mind's eye.
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post #59 of 84 Old 08-26-2015, 06:08 PM
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i checked mine with 2 discs ,no crushed blacks just way darker ideal blacks
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post #60 of 84 Old 09-01-2015, 04:29 AM
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Quick Update:

So I decided to patch the 500M and get back the ISF options (lost due to the reset) thanks to Turbe and Cotrolcal. I put D-Nice's numbers in and all is pretty good right now other than some blotchy blacks (only visible if sitting in a dark room looking at a black screen like an OCD patient) and lag or black rain on menus if the screen is black for a while. I am looking at calibration hardware and software right now so I can try and calibrate the unit (and other monitors I have) the correct way. I think I'm still looking for that sweet spot with black levels. Not so much to fool myself that I have an OLED but to get it back as close as possible to factory without the dreaded red tint appearing again.

The television screen is the retina of the mind's eye.
Sony XBR-65A1E OLED/Denon X4300H/Carver M-500t/Oppo 203/Klipsch RVX‑42/PS4 Pro/Xbox One X/5.1.2
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