Will I be happy going from plasma to 4k led? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 168 Old 01-06-2016, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by RicFlair View Post
The mid table 4K blows away the Kuro Plasma -end this thread. Stop with the black levels nonsense - nobody watches a TV and says ohhhh looka the depth of the blacks - people see my 4K Jumbotron and ask me if it's a fish tank.
What Does what you said have any relation to comparing plasma video technology to cassette tape audio technology?

I am a newbie here, but you speak in another language.....
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post #32 of 168 Old 01-06-2016, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
At a recent Shootout the ZT60 Plasma (which is slightly better than the top Pioneer Plasma's) was compared to the best TV on the market, the CZ950 Panasonic OLED. According experts the ZT60 comfortably held its own 90% of the time, exhibited better screen uniformity (particulary near black) and higher motion clarity than the CZ950. So... ..btw good luck with your ''mid table 4K
Stop ... 5 videophiles standing around looking at Star Trek means nothing ...

A screen should pop - when the Super Bowl is on , Ima tell my guests , oh look at the black levels - "you should see this PQ ..after 8pm when the sun goes down, the shades are closed and the lights are off - magnificent picture!"

Absurd

A TV should pop - colors , whites , hockey , football, fiery explosions from Marvel Blu Rays, Capiche?
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post #33 of 168 Old 01-06-2016, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
At a recent Shootout the ZT60 Plasma (which is slightly better than the top Pioneer Plasma's) was compared to the best TV on the market, the CZ950 Panasonic OLED. According experts the ZT60 comfortably held its own 90% of the time, exhibited better screen uniformity (particulary near black) and higher motion clarity than the CZ950. So... ..btw good luck with your ''mid table 4K
Arguably the best at the time of the shootout, sure (WOLED QC and manufacturing is still in a rapid state of flux). What you failed to mention in that scenario is that in spite of slightly inferior uniformity, the majority still preferred the OLEDs by at least a 90:1 margin.
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post #34 of 168 Old 01-07-2016, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
Arguably the best at the time of the shootout, sure (WOLED QC and manufacturing is still in a rapid state of flux). What you failed to mention in that scenario is that in spite of slightly inferior uniformity, the majority still preferred the OLEDs by at least a 90:1 margin.
What i posted is all i need to know..no hurry replacing my Plasma
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post #35 of 168 Old 01-07-2016, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RicFlair View Post
Stop ... 5 videophiles standing around looking at Star Trek means nothing ...

A screen should pop - when the Super Bowl is on , Ima tell my guests , oh look at the black levels - "you should see this PQ ..after 8pm when the sun goes down, the shades are closed and the lights are off - magnificent picture!"

Absurd

A TV should pop - colors , whites , hockey , football, fiery explosions from Marvel Blu Rays, Capiche?
There is only one person on AVS that uses the word ''pop'' a lot, that is pro-calibrator ChadB. In the top of his ''pop'' list you will find mainly OLEDs, Plasma's and a few top LCd's...
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post #36 of 168 Old 01-07-2016, 11:59 AM
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I'd be hesitant to buy anything new if I had a stellar 500M as well, though 50" would be woefully small to me today.
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post #37 of 168 Old 01-07-2016, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
...I have a lot of respect for Mark Henninger's (imagic's) opinions. His recommendation caused me to buy my last plasma before production stopped. In his review of the Vizio M65-C1 he concluded the following:....
My daughter's boyfriend has a Visio M43-C1, and I got to spend some time with it over Thanksgiving. I was sitting a little closer to the smaller display than I do to my 60" LG plasma, but still too far to "see" 4K resolution. The image quality was spectacular on some programs, especially 4K program.

That said, I didn't spend so much time with it that I'd say I prefer it to the plasma all the time. However, it has changed by opinion of 4K; it does bring something worthwhile to the party. Were the LG's to die today, I'd be looking for an M60 or M65-C1.

Have fun,
Frank
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post #38 of 168 Old 01-07-2016, 06:55 PM
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Most people walked past plasmas in big box stores and went straight to LCDs because they "popped" in torch mode under the harsh glare of metal halide warehouse lighting. A lot of folks took those LCDs home and never even realized they were supposed to take them out of torch mode in a home environment. I personally don't look for "pop" in video; I look for "natural."
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post #39 of 168 Old 01-07-2016, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RicFlair View Post
The mid table 4K blows away the Kuro Plasma -end this thread. Stop with the black levels nonsense - nobody watches a TV and says ohhhh looka the depth of the blacks - people see my 4K Jumbotron and ask me if it's a fish tank.

really...and what do you say when they ask you about the color and brightness changes when they look at the Tv from different angles?...

or do you only allow them to watch it "head on"?...


Warren
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post #40 of 168 Old 01-07-2016, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RicFlair View Post
Stop ... 5 videophiles standing around looking at Star Trek means nothing ...

A screen should pop - when the Super Bowl is on , Ima tell my guests , oh look at the black levels - "you should see this PQ ..after 8pm when the sun goes down, the shades are closed and the lights are off - magnificent picture!"

Absurd

A TV should pop - colors , whites , hockey , football, fiery explosions from Marvel Blu Rays, Capiche?
so you are saying color accuracy , screen uniformity and black levels mean nothing?

lol....just put the Tv in torch mode and impress your friends on how it mimics the sun in brightness..

Warren

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post #41 of 168 Old 01-07-2016, 07:45 PM
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Ok that was funny...
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post #42 of 168 Old 01-08-2016, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by fbov View Post
I was sitting a little closer to the smaller display than I do to my 60" LG plasma, but still too far to "see" 4K resolution. The image quality was spectacular on some programs, especially 4K program. That said, I didn't spend so much time with it that I'd say I prefer it to the plasma all the time. However, it has changed by opinion of 4K; it does bring something worthwhile to the party. Were the LG's to die today, I'd be looking for an M60 or M65-C1. Have fun,Frank
How big of an improvement on regular HDTV will a 4K improve on via upscaling ?

I have a 60" Samsung plasma like you....from 9-10' away, will I notice a big improvement with 4K vs. the Samsung ? And how much better is an actual 4K content vs. regular HDTV ?

I guess I'm trying to gaubge if these are marginal or quantitative jumps. As TVs have gotten bigger but the resolution (1920x1080) stayed the same, the pixel or resolution accuity to the naked eye may have dropped. 4K may improve on that. But how much ?

Is 4K vs. HDTV close to the jump from SDTV to HDTV? I would think not, but the effect could be closer on really-big TVs (65"+).
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post #43 of 168 Old 01-08-2016, 10:25 AM
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I sold my F8500 and really dislike the LCD that is a stand-in until we sell our current house. Besides size and features, EVERYTHING looks flat to me. Plasma's really have more 'depth' to a picture than LED's. I know color and motion are always improving, but I've personally taken an interest in the OLED's. People have commented about the depth of the picture, which is what I enjoyed so much about it.

I think the 2016 models show tons of promise and LG is constantly fixing them. They did announce an 88" OLED 4K display which--frankly, might be the most expensive TV you could purchase, but for a plasma lover it might be worth it. I don't know if I could go from a 60" plasma to a 75" LED and be happy with the motion options on such a large screen.

Frankly the whole concept of LED and that I have to choose between viewing angle, color, contrast, features, motion etc...is just mind blowing. Few TV's hit everything. Of course you trade off techs OLED has their issues, their more relatable to plasma, like image retention, panel failure, vignette, banding, and gray (not black) uniformity.
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post #44 of 168 Old 01-08-2016, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RicFlair View Post
Stop ... 5 videophiles standing around looking at Star Trek means nothing ...

A screen should pop - when the Super Bowl is on , Ima tell my guests , oh look at the black levels - "you should see this PQ ..after 8pm when the sun goes down, the shades are closed and the lights are off - magnificent picture!"

Absurd

A TV should pop - colors , whites , hockey , football, fiery explosions from Marvel Blu Rays, Capiche?
While I love my new Samsung 65 inch JS8500 4K LED.. it has been well established that the "pop" you speak of is created by a TV that is able to reproduce deep velvety blacks while still retaining detail in the darkest parts, and not by eye-searingly bright colors. Hence the reason why the manufacturer's work so hard with their LED TV's to try and reproduce Plasma-quality black levels over the years while still retaining details in the dark scenes. And they've gotten pretty gosh darned good at it. But the beautiful blackness that Pioneer Kuro and OLED and the top end Panasonic Plasma's were able to produce are what cause such beauty on the screen where there is color, and brighter details. Do you remember the atrocity that were CCFL lit LCD TV's?
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post #45 of 168 Old 01-08-2016, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by skeeder View Post
I sold my F8500 and really dislike the LCD that is a stand-in until we sell our current house. Besides size and features, EVERYTHING looks flat to me. Plasma's really have more 'depth' to a picture than LED's. I know color and motion are always improving, but I've personally taken an interest in the OLED's. People have commented about the depth of the picture, which is what I enjoyed so much about it.

I think the 2016 models show tons of promise and LG is constantly fixing them. They did announce an 88" OLED 4K display which--frankly, might be the most expensive TV you could purchase, but for a plasma lover it might be worth it. I don't know if I could go from a 60" plasma to a 75" LED and be happy with the motion options on such a large screen.

Frankly the whole concept of LED and that I have to choose between viewing angle, color, contrast, features, motion etc...is just mind blowing. Few TV's hit everything. Of course you trade off techs OLED has their issues, their more relatable to plasma, like image retention, panel failure, vignette, banding, and gray (not black) uniformity.
Yes.. I didn't realize OLED's had image retention issues. While I realize what Best Buy does to televisions constitutes abuse by leaving them on 16 hours a day on a loop.. I was a little shocked at how bad the image retention was on the LG OLED's in the store. I loved the OLED's. But for now.. my JS8500 will have to do. Will move to OLED in a few years when the price comes down and they get some of their issues hammered out.
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post #46 of 168 Old 01-08-2016, 12:00 PM
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@OP, I'm kind of in the same boat. I have spent hours literally just watching television at stores with even the top end OLED televisions and the things that bother me about LED sets are still there. Motion blur, deinterlace artifacts. Although I do admit that the picture on the top end OLED sets is impressive. My biggest problem is trying to decide if I can live with the motion issues. It just flat takes away from the viewing experience IMO.
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post #47 of 168 Old 01-08-2016, 12:02 PM
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Great thread. I have a Panny TC-P50G20 thats going on 6 years and everything about me says its time for a replacement. That being said, with lack of 4k content, i just can't see the need for an upgrade to LCD at this point. I have checked out plenty and I really dont see a better picture in any of the modern TV's; my opinion.

What really looks exciting to me is OLED and HDR. That is the catalyst for an upgrade.
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post #48 of 168 Old 01-08-2016, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post
Yes.

The music i have on my legacy Cassette Tapes sounds richer and more natural than it does via Digital Audio sources.


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Not exactly the same thing. Kind of more like Betamax end of life and deciding if you can live with new and improved VHS.
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post #49 of 168 Old 01-08-2016, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RicFlair View Post
Stop ... 5 videophiles standing around looking at Star Trek means nothing ...

A screen should pop - when the Super Bowl is on , Ima tell my guests , oh look at the black levels - "you should see this PQ ..after 8pm when the sun goes down, the shades are closed and the lights are off - magnificent picture!"

Absurd

A TV should pop - colors , whites , hockey , football, fiery explosions from Marvel Blu Rays, Capiche?
you should realize that countering the opinions of 5 EXPERTS with the opinion of random football fans who've possibly been drinking makes about as much sense as the anti-vaxxers saying doctors don't know what they're talking about but that random person on the internet who heard something from a friend that once read an article in a medical journal does...

there is nothing wrong with YOU preferring a brighter image. but there is EVERYTHING wrong with you assuming YOUR tastes represent scientific truth.

the FACT is, plasma can display a picture that is more accurate than lcd does. this is measureable, repeatable, and supported by nearly all the EXPERTS in the field. still doesn't mean YOU have to like it, it just means you have to ACCEPT it. as far as 'pop' goes, i find the 10000:1 to 40000:1 ansi contrast ratios of plasma to have a heck of a lot more 'pop' than the 500:1 to 2000:1 CR's of typical lcd's, but again, that's OPINION, and i can accept yours, as long as you present it as such, and not fact.

fwiw, my eyes must be very different than yours, because i find many plasma televisions to be too bright out of the box. i went through a lot of work, eventually having to adjust voltages in order to tame the brightness on my f8500. i find it the opposite, i am unable to watch tv's that are super bright unless i crank up the ambient lighting. i have to go out of my way to make sure windows are open, it's not cloudy, or i have the multitude of lights in the living room at full blast. the lcd in my bedroom has the backlight set to 6 out of 20. anything over 10 gives me headaches

and this STILL doesn't have anything to do with '4k'... 4k is nice, just needs more options for display tech displaying it

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post #50 of 168 Old 01-08-2016, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipsPhanatic View Post
How big of an improvement on regular HDTV will a 4K improve on via upscaling ?

I have a 60" Samsung plasma like you....from 9-10' away, will I notice a big improvement with 4K vs. the Samsung ? And how much better is an actual 4K content vs. regular HDTV ?

I guess I'm trying to gaubge if these are marginal or quantitative jumps. As TVs have gotten bigger but the resolution (1920x1080) stayed the same, the pixel or resolution accuity to the naked eye may have dropped. 4K may improve on that. But how much ?

Is 4K vs. HDTV close to the jump from SDTV to HDTV? I would think not, but the effect could be closer on really-big TVs (65"+).
i still think the numbers lead to questionable results.

if i'm sitting in the living room, or a home theater, i'm probably going to be at least 8feet away. from 8feet away, i should be pretty comfortable watching 1080p on 65, maybe 70" screens without seeing any pixels. now, 4k gives me the option of either moving closer to the same size screen(which i wouldn't personally want to do) or getting a bigger screen at the same distance. now, i have issues with tv's over 70" due to physical size, weight, and transportation that would prevent me from buying one.

bottom line is, in the store, when i walk by, or stand there and look at the displays, the 4k does look more clear. but you need to have MASSIVE screens, or TINY rooms for it to make sense. at some point i'll get 4k because why not? it'll be about the same price, and lcd vs lcd, why not get 4k? but the only area that i personally feel 4k has a place is for projectors. when watching a 130"+ screen from 10-13feet away, you can see the pixel structure and i'm sure 4k really shines.

if you don't want a larger screen than what you're currently happy with, i don't see a point in upgrading
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post #51 of 168 Old 01-11-2016, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by goksucats View Post
Yes.. I didn't realize OLED's had image retention issues. While I realize what Best Buy does to televisions constitutes abuse by leaving them on 16 hours a day on a loop.. I was a little shocked at how bad the image retention was on the LG OLED's in the store. I loved the OLED's. But for now.. my JS8500 will have to do. Will move to OLED in a few years when the price comes down and they get some of their issues hammered out.
Some source have said that image retention is actually less than plasma's. Others say about the same.

I wouldn't really focus on it unless it was in Magnolia where they actually care about these kind of things.

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post #52 of 168 Old 01-11-2016, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
i still think the numbers lead to questionable results.

if i'm sitting in the living room, or a home theater, i'm probably going to be at least 8feet away. from 8feet away, i should be pretty comfortable watching 1080p on 65, maybe 70" screens without seeing any pixels. now, 4k gives me the option of either moving closer to the same size screen(which i wouldn't personally want to do) or getting a bigger screen at the same distance. now, i have issues with tv's over 70" due to physical size, weight, and transportation that would prevent me from buying one.

bottom line is, in the store, when i walk by, or stand there and look at the displays, the 4k does look more clear. but you need to have MASSIVE screens, or TINY rooms for it to make sense. at some point i'll get 4k because why not? it'll be about the same price, and lcd vs lcd, why not get 4k? but the only area that i personally feel 4k has a place is for projectors. when watching a 130"+ screen from 10-13feet away, you can see the pixel structure and i'm sure 4k really shines.

if you don't want a larger screen than what you're currently happy with, i don't see a point in upgrading
Well I sit about 6.5 feet away from my UN65JS8500... so I think in my case the 4K begins to make sense even if you're only looking at it upscaled right now vs. native. But in general, I totally understand what you're saying.
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post #53 of 168 Old 01-11-2016, 01:00 PM
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I have a 2nd generation 50" kuro in my bedroom and a 58" panasonic plasma in my living room. I just bought the Vizio M70-C3 for my den.....I HATE IT. that being said, even my wife, who is not a tech person, asked what was wrong with the picture. The only thing that looks good on it is cartoons. there really isn't any other options at this point in time. Good luck.
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post #54 of 168 Old 01-11-2016, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goksucats View Post
Well I sit about 6.5 feet away from my UN65JS8500... so I think in my case the 4K begins to make sense even if you're only looking at it upscaled right now vs. native. But in general, I totally understand what you're saying.
totally! if you're going to sit closer, it absolutely makes a difference.

i was just saying you need to either move closer, or go bigger. eventually we will hit a point where it's uncomfortable or not practical to do either. it's possible some have already, and that's ok too.
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post #55 of 168 Old 01-11-2016, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by skeeder View Post
I think the 2016 models show tons of promise and LG is constantly fixing them. They did announce an 88" OLED 4K display which--frankly, might be the most expensive TV you could purchase, but for a plasma lover it might be worth it. I don't know if I could go from a 60" plasma to a 75" LED and be happy with the motion options on such a large screen.
They had a 98" LCD for show actually. The biggest OLED available has been and will remain for the foreseeable future a 77".
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post #56 of 168 Old 01-11-2016, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by goksucats View Post
Yes.. I didn't realize OLED's had image retention issues. While I realize what Best Buy does to televisions constitutes abuse by leaving them on 16 hours a day on a loop.. I was a little shocked at how bad the image retention was on the LG OLED's in the store. I loved the OLED's. But for now.. my JS8500 will have to do. Will move to OLED in a few years when the price comes down and they get some of their issues hammered out.
I would recommend checking the owner threads for similar complaints before getting too alarmed. You won't find any because the sets are actually very resilient when not abused (keep reading for what I mean by abused). In many of these store settings, the TVs run the same tiny video loop up to 12 hours a day and then likely have the power shut down at the mains. This prevents the set from running its compensation algorithm upon a soft shut down (which it runs approximately every 4 to 6 hours of usage).
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post #57 of 168 Old 01-11-2016, 11:38 PM
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Hmmm, well coming from a guy that has owned 4 plasma's over the years and just switched over to OLED with a free 4K LED 49" television let me say this. After taking down a perfectly good Samsung 50" Plasma in my bedroom and putting up the 49" newer 4K television, I pulled it down after 3 days. Its now in the spare bedroom where it belongs. The picture SUCKED and without proper black levels the colors were HORRID. I cannot for the life of me understand how people cannot see the difference between a Plasma and an LED. There is a huge difference and I could never own another LED. Its either OLED, older Plasma, or Nothing for me. You guys who love those LED's can keep em.
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post #58 of 168 Old 01-11-2016, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ChicagoChris View Post
Great thread. I have a Panny TC-P50G20 thats going on 6 years and everything about me says its time for a replacement. That being said, with lack of 4k content, i just can't see the need for an upgrade to LCD at this point. I have checked out plenty and I really dont see a better picture in any of the modern TV's; my opinion.

What really looks exciting to me is OLED and HDR. That is the catalyst for an upgrade.
I bought an LG EF6500 OLED and if I get one without the yellow or pink stain and the vignetting I will be very happy indeed. Its rivals and even beats the black levels of my Plasmas of the past. The price is pretty steep but I got mine on sale along with a free 49" 4K LED which I promptly put in another room after 3 days. Once I get the OLED right I will be set for years to come. Nothing compares to it.
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post #59 of 168 Old 01-11-2016, 11:54 PM
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How big of an improvement on regular HDTV will a 4K improve on via upscaling ?

I have a 60" Samsung plasma like you....from 9-10' away, will I notice a big improvement with 4K vs. the Samsung ? And how much better is an actual 4K content vs. regular HDTV ?

I guess I'm trying to gaubge if these are marginal or quantitative jumps. As TVs have gotten bigger but the resolution (1920x1080) stayed the same, the pixel or resolution accuity to the naked eye may have dropped. 4K may improve on that. But how much ?

Is 4K vs. HDTV close to the jump from SDTV to HDTV? I would think not, but the effect could be closer on really-big TVs (65"+).
dont expect a big improvement with cable. newer tvs are very source sensative and if you send a garbage cable signal to it, the faults in the source will show up. the big advantages come with using hte best sources (1080/4k/hdr).

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Hmmm, well coming from a guy that has owned 4 plasma's over the years and just switched over to OLED with a free 4K LED 49" television let me say this. After taking down a perfectly good Samsung 50" Plasma in my bedroom and putting up the 49" newer 4K television, I pulled it down after 3 days. Its now in the spare bedroom where it belongs. The picture SUCKED and without proper black levels the colors were HORRID. I cannot for the life of me understand how people cannot see the difference between a Plasma and an LED. There is a huge difference and I could never own another LED. Its either OLED, older Plasma, or Nothing for me. You guys who love those LED's can keep em.
thats because its an LG led and LG has very sucky LED tvs. they use IPS panels which have grey blacks.

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MASTER LIST OF HDR CONTENT THREAD HERE, UPDATED OFTEN
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post #60 of 168 Old 01-12-2016, 03:45 AM
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Stop ... 5 videophiles standing around looking at Star Trek means nothing ...

A screen should pop - when the Super Bowl is on , Ima tell my guests , oh look at the black levels - "you should see this PQ ..after 8pm when the sun goes down, the shades are closed and the lights are off - magnificent picture!"

Absurd

A TV should pop - colors , whites , hockey , football, fiery explosions from Marvel Blu Rays, Capiche?

The problem for me is not the pop but what happens when the GAME starts and those damn players and the ball actually move and worse... the fans get panned across. You do realize that those are people in the background and not a color smudge of "pop" correct?
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