F8500 will be my last high end TV ever, and I'm finally glad plasma is gone - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 282 Old 03-22-2016, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post
Not to hijack the thread, but does anyone know if the separation issue on the ZT60 gets worse or affects the picture in any way? I am still under Geek Squad warranty but not sure if this would be considered cosmetic (not covered). And if I used the warranty and they cashed me out, I'm not so sure I'd know what to get. I think the current crop of OLEDs aren't the holy grail we'd all thought they'd be. The best LCDs have less compromise to me, so something like a Sony X940D would probably be my choice if I could make it fit. The Panasonic DX900 seems awesome but I don't know if we'll get it here (even if we did get it in the US, Panasonic doesn't seem to like selling their TVs in stores anymore).
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post #62 of 282 Old 03-22-2016, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post
^^ The JU6700 is Samsung's cheapest/worst 4K TV, 60Hz panel, no HDR or WCG support, no local dimming, not a great TV...

I've had four plasmas, all Panasonic (G20, VT50, ST60, and now ZT60), and have never had a problem with IR on any of them, but then again my viewing habits are probably not conducive to IR. I don't watch much 4:3 content, don't play video games, don't watch sports, and use the TV sparingly. I pretty much only use it for 16:9 HDTV shows through my Apple TV and Blu-Ray movies. I just checked it and I still only have 1,925 hours on it since November 2013.

On the other hand, I gave the 50" ST60 to my mom who, by AVS standards, abused it. She'd watch a lot of mixed content from DirecTV and Netflix movies, and a fair amount of 4:3. Worst of all, she liked watching it in Vivid. She ended up giving it to my brother. Before she gave it to him, I wanted to check it out because I was sure she had ruined it. She had about 3,000 hours on the panel. I popped in an SD card with some color slides, and to my surprise, the TV showed not a single hint of unevenness, burn-in/IR, logos, etc. So to me it seemed like while later generations of PDP were more prone to IR than older ones, the susceptibility seems to vary from sample to sample for whatever reason.

In regards to not wanting to buy a "high-end" TV, I think that we often draw a false correlation between cost and longevity. We all know a high-end/high-cost TV will have a better picture than a lower end one, but I think the assumption that a more expensive TV will be more reliable does not really follow. It would be nice if it were true though. Case in point, last week, I'm dusting my ZT60 and notice that I'm starting to get the panel separation issue in the upper right hand corner of the TV (see picture). A bit of a bummer for a babied flagship TV with all this fancy talk about autoclaves, but the picture is still amazing...

Not to hijack the thread, but does anyone know if the separation issue on the ZT60 gets worse or affects the picture in any way? I am still under Geek Squad warranty but not sure if this would be considered cosmetic (not covered). And if I used the warranty and they cashed me out, I'm not so sure I'd know what to get. I think the current crop of OLEDs aren't the holy grail we'd all thought they'd be. The best LCDs have less compromise to me, so something like a Sony X940D would probably be my choice if I could make it fit. The Panasonic DX900 seems awesome but I don't know if we'll get it here (even if we did get it in the US, Panasonic doesn't seem to like selling their TVs in stores anymore).
My panel separation was in the lower right hand corner. Yeah I put some Krazy Glue on a thin butter knife and gently put it up in there about 2 weeks ago. Mind you this wasn't anywhere near the lower inside plasma glass. To my surprise it has stayed glued down. :-) But lots of members have had this and have noted that it hasn't affected their picture quality. Also you'll notice if you stick a thin piece of paper in there it'll only go in so far. And I'm betting 100% of the time it'll go in maybe an inch which is still not anywhere near the plasma screen. So I'm thinking this separation just affects the outside borders and no where near the actual plasma glass picture. Check out my posts over in the ZT60 thread. I'm pretty much up in there talking about for the last 5 pages.


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post #63 of 282 Old 03-22-2016, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post
^^ The JU6700 is Samsung's cheapest/worst 4K TV, 60Hz panel, no HDR or WCG support, no local dimming, not a great TV...

I've had four plasmas, all Panasonic (G20, VT50, ST60, and now ZT60), and have never had a problem with IR on any of them, but then again my viewing habits are probably not conducive to IR. I don't watch much 4:3 content, don't play video games, don't watch sports, and use the TV sparingly. I pretty much only use it for 16:9 HDTV shows through my Apple TV and Blu-Ray movies. I just checked it and I still only have 1,925 hours on it since November 2013.

On the other hand, I gave the 50" ST60 to my mom who, by AVS standards, abused it. She'd watch a lot of mixed content from DirecTV and Netflix movies, and a fair amount of 4:3. Worst of all, she liked watching it in Vivid. She ended up giving it to my brother. Before she gave it to him, I wanted to check it out because I was sure she had ruined it. She had about 3,000 hours on the panel. I popped in an SD card with some color slides, and to my surprise, the TV showed not a single hint of unevenness, burn-in/IR, logos, etc. So to me it seemed like while later generations of PDP were more prone to IR than older ones, the susceptibility seems to vary from sample to sample for whatever reason.

In regards to not wanting to buy a "high-end" TV, I think that we often draw a false correlation between cost and longevity. We all know a high-end/high-cost TV will have a better picture than a lower end one, but I think the assumption that a more expensive TV will be more reliable does not really follow. It would be nice if it were true though. Case in point, last week, I'm dusting my ZT60 and notice that I'm starting to get the panel separation issue in the upper right hand corner of the TV (see picture). A bit of a bummer for a babied flagship TV with all this fancy talk about autoclaves, but the picture is still amazing...

Not to hijack the thread, but does anyone know if the separation issue on the ZT60 gets worse or affects the picture in any way? I am still under Geek Squad warranty but not sure if this would be considered cosmetic (not covered). And if I used the warranty and they cashed me out, I'm not so sure I'd know what to get. I think the current crop of OLEDs aren't the holy grail we'd all thought they'd be. The best LCDs have less compromise to me, so something like a Sony X940D would probably be my choice if I could make it fit. The Panasonic DX900 seems awesome but I don't know if we'll get it here (even if we did get it in the US, Panasonic doesn't seem to like selling their TVs in stores anymore).
The slight separation causes no problems - was discussed at length in the ZT thread - has NO EFFECT ON PICTURE QUALITY - old saying "if it is working OK leave it alone - fixing it just might break it"

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post #64 of 282 Old 03-22-2016, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post
What comeback? Plasma is not making a comeback. The factories have all been dismantled. Plasma TVs will never be made again.

______________
you're right, I thought I heard they were making a comeback, this is a very unfortunate thing because they cost less to make and buy, and deliver a superior picture in all aspects. Plasma never needed auto dimming features, never needed 120hz and 240hz technology that really didn't do much for LED tv's anyways. Consumer reports had a bunch of new employees last year gather around and watch 15 TV's of which only 2 were plasma, and without telling them what type of TV was each all the employees picked the 2 plasmas. Plasma is simply superior and the long term life expectancy was 100,000 hours to half life! Thats 54 years at 3 hours a day. I know people with LED's that suffered from failed micro transistor in the picture display and would have these "holes" for a lack of a better term, in the picture after only 3 to 5 years of use. But keep in mind, as with anything today with microprocessors working our TV's and other devices, that those main microprocessors won't last that long so while the screen of either type may be good the tv is dead.
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post #65 of 282 Old 03-22-2016, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
Even the Pioneers could develop uneven wear.
Oh I agree, The Pioneer manual has warnings on wear and it has grey side masks enabled by default w/ 4:3 content, plus I've always left the Orbiter feature enabled, I was mainly referring to how resistant they are to IR, at least on my 8G model.

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post #66 of 282 Old 03-22-2016, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
As noted in a previous post, the phosphors in the 4:3 viewing area are being used more and aging faster than the phosphors in the black bar area. Since phosphors grow darker as they age, that's why the 4:3 viewing area of the screen becomes darker than the black bar areas.
The problem i am talking about can only be seen when the screen is ''black'' or a scene with lots of blacks in it. What you are talking about is not related..
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post #67 of 282 Old 03-22-2016, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
Well. My pro-calibrated 500m Pioneer has better blacks than your TV...still not ''black as they come''.. should see you TV blacks next to OLED blacks... shocker

Well I'm glad you're happy with your TV. I have ZERO reason to buy a new TV at this point, including an OLED. My Panasonic is just fine. I will say it's hard to compare TV pictures via an internet post. I'm only able to read a persons most often times exaggerated picture of their TV, what ever that may be. My friends Pioneer TV burned out after three years...I hear there's warnings on wear of the Pioneer in the manual too.



On my Plasma on the edge of were movie black bars suppost to be a full dark screen is darker than it should be..will not go away..pretty clear that is burn-in. Do you say it is not?
Darker than it should be? Huh, I've never seen that. More than likely your picture is lighter than it should be. My experience has been that "burn-in" is a lighter area that shadows a burned in image(s).

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post #68 of 282 Old 03-22-2016, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by breezy2012 View Post
A few months out of warranty my F8500 has developed permanent IR.

It happened after a very innocuous 5 or 6 hour 4:3 viewing session (Star Trek Voyager, iirc). I turned the TV on the next day and the 4:3 pillar on the right side was very noticeable. The one on the left was visible as well but not nearly as bad. I've had this issue before so I initially didn't think too much of it, but even after 2 days of full screen viewing it remained very prominent, especially in bright scenes. I decided to do a 24 hour screen wipe which had always taken care of any IR I've had. No effect - the IR was exactly as visible as before.

I let it run longer but even after 2 straight days of wiping the IR hasn't dissipated in the slightest. I have to assume at this point it's permanent. The TV is still usable but to my eyes, for all practical purposes, it's ruined. I can't unsee the IR. It's always going to be there. In bright scenes, like daytime beach scenes in LOST, it dominates the screen.

I'm very frustrated right now. Why in the hell should I have to forego 4:3 viewing on a TV I paid $3500 for? I watch many 4:3 programs. I love the picture quality of plasma but I now know beyond a doubt it was a flawed technology until the end. IR was lessened but it was never completely eradicated. There's no way Samsung will help me with this and why should they? The set is out of warranty.

Unless I get to the point where money is no object for me I'm out on high end TVs. Strictly mid-range from now on. What do I do with this thing? Maybe I can sell it locally to someone who's blind in one eye.

Good luck to all of you. May your plasmas treat you well for many years to come.
I've read through this entire thread and I'm still a little confused as to what the OP is describing. Are you seeing dark bars on the side of the panel as if it is still showing 4:3 content? Or are they lighter bars? If dark it is not IR or burn in, it would be the opposite of burn in. If the sides are lighter then it is uneven wear, but even that is hard to believe given the description of your viewing habits. I have had a Kuro for many years and have had zero issues with it but view little to no 4:3 programming. I have a Samsung plasma in my bedroom and like you was watching old Star Trek Voyager eps on Netflix, originally in 4:3 format, but then decided to watch it stretched. I watched many more than 4-5 episodes in 4:3 format, as you say you did, and never developed any image problems. The set is maybe 1 year old at this point. If what happened to you was common no one would have bought a PDP, my guess is that there is something wrong with your panel. I would love to see a picture of what your set is looks like.
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post #69 of 282 Old 03-22-2016, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by dereklsj View Post
Darker than it should be? Huh, I've never seen that. More than likely your picture is lighter than it should be. My experience has been that "burn-in" is a lighter area that shadows a burned in image(s).
You are probably not familiar with Pioneer Plasma's. Dark spots* is not uncommon (which you can see on a all black screen in the dark). According Pioneer this should disappear over time. What i am talking about is something similar but is black bar related. I call it burn-in but am not shure, could be something else.

* similar to what hdtvtest noticed ''Subtle blotching/ streaking when screen is totally black''
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/Pioneer-PD...alibration.htm
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post #70 of 282 Old 03-22-2016, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
You are probably not familiar with Pioneer Plasma's. Dark spots* is not uncommon (which you can see on a all black screen in the dark). According Pioneer this should disappear over time. What i am talking about is something similar but is black bar related. I call it burn-in but am not shure, could be something else.

* similar to what hdtvtest noticed ''Subtle blotching/ streaking when screen is totally black''
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/Pioneer-PD...alibration.htm
"''Subtle blotching/ streaking when screen is totally black'' wasn't how it was described in the previous post. It said "it was too black." Nothing about blotching or streaking. I bit of a difference in how that can be determined.
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post #71 of 282 Old 03-22-2016, 09:15 PM
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I agree that buying a high-end TV makes sense only for the rich. If you get a cheaper set, you can replace it in a couple of years and your new TV will be better than if you had kept the old high-end set.
Interesting. I've never heard that form of logic before, but okay.
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post #72 of 282 Old 03-22-2016, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Mathesar View Post
Pioneer must of known something Samsung / Panasonic didn't?

I've been using a 5080HD since 2008 and never think about what is being displayed on screen, I've seen a few brief instances of IR but they always go away literally within a few minutes of playing normal content again (vs. static images such as a paused video game) TV is mainly used for gaming (X1 / PS4 currently) and I've always watched 4:3 content with black bars on sides when possible although 4:3 content isn't a common thing for us.
I would go as far as to say Pioneer and Samsung knew something that Panasonic didn't. Aside from the OP's issue I have never had any issues with IR on my 64F8500. And trust me I pause this TV often when I leave to go into the kitchen. I watch 3 hour sporting events with logos and many old shows with black bars on the sides of the screen and experience absolutely zero IR. If anything I might see a faint image that stays for 1 minute or less when I change the channel.

On the flip side my Panasonic plasma is used only for full screen movie watching now, mainly Netflix. Just pulling up the onscreen menu or the internet app menus leaves IR which stays around for 10-15 minutes after changing channels and I don't dare pause it. The NFL network has a pretty bad station logo. I won't even watch the NFL network on my Panny anymore. Panasonic gets more complaints here about IR than any other Plasma. Samsung has much more tolerable panels, regardless whether you buy the top of the line or their base model.
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post #73 of 282 Old 03-22-2016, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by bizzybody View Post
WalMart has a gorgeous 55" curved Samsung UN55JU6700 4K LCD for $1,197
Now that I've seen 4K up close and in person, my 4+ year old 37" 1080p Vizio looks downright gritty. :P (It was the previous year's model when I bought it, which I did because it was less $ and had 3 HDMI inputs vs only 2 on its replacement.)
Keep in mind that the 4K content you see in stores is not exactly a reality. And even with a 4K TV you will end up watching at least 90% 1080p as there is still very little 4K content. From my understand, Netflix still doesn't fully project the highest quality 4K due to streaming limitations. And about that TV at Walmart, I've seen it. On the front it looks nice but the back of it seems made of cheap plastic. Samsung's higher-end sets have all metal cabinets and bezels.
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post #74 of 282 Old 03-22-2016, 11:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Egan View Post
I've read through this entire thread and I'm still a little confused as to what the OP is describing. Are you seeing dark bars on the side of the panel as if it is still showing 4:3 content? Or are they lighter bars? If dark it is not IR or burn in, it would be the opposite of burn in. If the sides are lighter then it is uneven wear, but even that is hard to believe given the description of your viewing habits. I have had a Kuro for many years and have had zero issues with it but view little to no 4:3 programming. I have a Samsung plasma in my bedroom and like you was watching old Star Trek Voyager eps on Netflix, originally in 4:3 format, but then decided to watch it stretched. I watched many more than 4-5 episodes in 4:3 format, as you say you did, and never developed any image problems. The set is maybe 1 year old at this point. If what happened to you was common no one would have bought a PDP, my guess is that there is something wrong with your panel. I would love to see a picture of what your set is looks like.
I will try to get a picture on here one of these days.

I've never been good at migrating a pic from my phone to a PC to a website but I guess it's time I move into the 21st century.
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post #75 of 282 Old 03-23-2016, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
Plasma and lots of black bar stuff is not a good combination. When buying a Plasma watching lots of black bar stuff will have consequences over time, should take three/four years though before problems start. When watching lots of black bar stuff LCd is the best choice...or buy a Plasma/LCd and use LCd for black bar stuff. Even a OLED should be able to handle black bar stuff these days.
If I am watching a 4x3 program, I will often use the zoom function to eliminate the back bars on the side. Also, I have the pixel shift turned on, and adjusted to shift at the lowest number of minutes. This seems to help. And you can always try the screen wipe.
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post #76 of 282 Old 03-23-2016, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
You are probably not familiar with Pioneer Plasma's. Dark spots* is not uncommon (which you can see on a all black screen in the dark). According Pioneer this should disappear over time. What i am talking about is something similar but is black bar related. I call it burn-in but am not shure, could be something else.

* similar to what hdtvtest noticed ''Subtle blotching/ streaking when screen is totally black''
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/Pioneer-PD...alibration.htm
Still not 100% sure of your exact problem, so a photo would help. But maybe we can pin it down with Q&A. It seemed your original description was that the problem was related to a difference in what you see in the 4:3 image and black bar areas of your screen when it's totally black. The review you linked to describing the subtle blotching/streaking issue when the screen is totally black appears to be more random in its screen location. But if you're seeing a clear difference in blotching/streaking between the 4:3 image and black bar areas of your screen when the screen is totally black, then it's possible that uneven phosphor aging from extensive 4:3 viewing with black bars may further exaggerate the blotching/streaking issue.
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post #77 of 282 Old 03-23-2016, 07:56 AM
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It's odd to me to be glad that something is no longer sold. I've never understood the desire for less choice.


Also: Samsung. Every piece of equipment I've ever owned from that company has had some kind of defect or developed some kind of issue over time. It's anecdotal and, of course, an infinitesimally small sample size based on the amount of product they move so take this with a grain of salt but I will personally never buy another product from them. And it's not so much their crap breaking that really bothers me: it's the complete lack of f*cks they give after it breaks. I suffered with one of their top-of-the-line bluray players (back when high end bluray players were a $300-400 purchase) for two years while Samsung was lazy with firmware updates and oh-by-the-way if that firmware happened to brick your player you had to pay them upwards of 100 dollars to fix their screw up. When it finally refused to playback a movie altogether I was actually relieved to be free of that albatross which I had endured simply on account of it costing me so damn much.


In contrast: Onkyo had a much publicized issue with their HDMI boards a couple years back but you know what? They sent me a prepaid shipping box and fixed my receiver for free when it was out of warranty. When my Panasonic camera developed a mechanical zoom problem Panasonic foot the bill even though my warranty had expired the month previous. CSW took a subwoofer that had blown out of warranty and though I had to pay for the repair they were fair and accommodating. To me, what a company does when things go sideways is just as important as whether or not it goes sideways to begin with. In my book, Samsung fails on both fronts: their stuff quits and they don't care/help when it does.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
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post #78 of 282 Old 03-23-2016, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
No such thing.
Liquid crystal is related to plastic. It has already been used. Unless you can prove OLED is made with small LEDs like Wildfire was, and that LC can't be given any color except blue or black; I am not interested in what you have to say. You may be able to prove liquid crystal has to be blue or black, but you will have a hard time proving OLED TVs are made of industrial LEDs, or that it has a better frame rate. It is interesting how LG has wasted R&D on large displays, while ignoring the computer monitor market.

Actually, the first Game Boy Advance was color liquid, and so was the Color Game Boy. They did not have back-lights either.

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post #79 of 282 Old 03-23-2016, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
Well. My pro-calibrated 500m Pioneer has better blacks than your TV...still not ''black as they come''.. should see you TV blacks next to OLED blacks... shocker

On my Plasma on the edge of were movie black bars suppost to be a full dark screen is darker than it should be..will not go away..pretty clear that is burn-in. Do you say it is not?
I find it odd that you have image retention from black. Heat is needed for plasma to display pictures though, and I would expect such that the area that had the black bars would be too lighter or brighter color, not darker color. But in your case, I think you could benefit from bright slides in a cool room.

When I use my computer, I have this problem, but I turn up the air conditioning too. Plasma displays have a hard time with sharp images also. But I really doubt those areas of the Television are overheated, thus burn-in may be the wrong term, in this case.
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post #80 of 282 Old 03-23-2016, 08:51 AM
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"''Subtle blotching/ streaking when screen is totally black'' wasn't how it was described in the previous post. It said "it was too black." Nothing about blotching or streaking. I bit of a difference in how that can be determined.
On a full dark screen there are areas on my two Pioneers that are ''too black''. On my second Pioneer Plasma i am shure dark spots on a full dark screen are were logo's been displayed a lot that is why i suspect it is some sort of burn in. I am pretty shure you will find such areas on all used Pioneer Plasma's were folks displayed logo's, tickers and black bars a lot..
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post #81 of 282 Old 03-23-2016, 08:54 AM
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I guess my weird case of image retention isn't helpful.
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post #82 of 282 Old 03-23-2016, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
On a full dark screen there are areas on my two Pioneers that are ''too black''. On my second Pioneer Plasma i am shure dark spots on a full dark screen are were logo's been displayed a lot that is why i suspect it is some sort of burn in. I am pretty shure you will find such areas on all used Pioneer Plasma's were folks displayed logo's, tickers and black bars a lot..
If I understand you correctly, you are saying that a stationary logo creates the exact same screen after effect (dark spots) as stationary black bars from viewing a lot of 4:3 content. That would make sense if the logo was dark like the black bars. It would not make sense if a bright white stationary logo created the exact same screen after effect as black bars. Black stationary objects and white stationary objects should have exactly the opposite effect on image retention, whether the IR is short-term or persistent (burn-in). One should appear lighter than the rest of the screen and the other should appear darker.
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Liquid crystal is related to plastic. It has already been used. Unless you can prove OLED is made with small LEDs like Wildfire was, and that LC can't be given any color except blue or black; I am not interested in what you have to say. You may be able to prove liquid crystal has to be blue or black, but you will have a hard time proving OLED TVs are made of industrial LEDs, or that it has a better frame rate. It is interesting how LG has wasted R&D on large displays, while ignoring the computer monitor market.

Actually, the first Game Boy Advance was color liquid, and so was the Color Game Boy. They did not have back-lights either.
Making things up as you go along is not how a science forum works. The closest we've come to a self-emissive LCD is in a lab or a prototype or two at best. What's frame rate got to do with it? These are 120 hz panels, so there's no reason to believe it would be more capable there than anything that has come before. It does have the fastest response times, however. Finally, I don't see it odd in focusing on large screens since, like plasma, OLED is not best suited for static imagery on a screen for hours on end.

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post #84 of 282 Old 03-23-2016, 12:26 PM
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Making things up as you go along is not how a science forum works. The closest we've come to a self-emissive LCD is in a lab or a prototype or two at best. What's frame rate got to do with it? These are 120 hz panels, so there's no reason to believe it would be more capable there than anything that has come before. It does have the fastest response times, however. Finally, I don't see it odd in focusing on large screens since, like plasma, OLED is not best suited for static imagery on a screen for hours on end.
But OLED is not self-emissive. It has thin film backlight which works at 120Hz. It is a far cry from the response needed to lit light in by applying electricity. There are many ways liquid crystal can be "wetted". OLED is already not prone to burn-in. But like all liquid crystal, if you drive it too hard, it will burn and lose color/contrast control. I don't mind OLED, but I don't like false advertising. OLED is great for making great computer monitors, but it isn't copyright Wildfire technology.

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Finally, I don't see it odd in focusing on large screens since, like plasma, OLED is not best suited for static imagery on a screen for hours on end.
Size has little to do if heat will be an issue in a displays. But OLED is already proven in small sizes. It is refresh is close to as poor as LCD with CRT, DLP and PDP all doing much better.

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post #85 of 282 Old 03-23-2016, 01:04 PM
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But OLED is not self-emissive. It has thin film backlight which works at 120Hz. It is a far cry from the response needed to lit light in by applying electricity. There are many ways liquid crystal can be "wetted". OLED is already not prone to burn-in. But like all liquid crystal, if you drive it too hard, it will burn and lose color/contrast control. I don't mind OLED, but I don't like false advertising. OLED is great for making great computer monitors, but it isn't Wildfire technology.

Sorry, Weboh, you're mistaken. OLED is self-emissive. I think where you might be confusing yourself is concerning the backplane that is used to switch each individual pixel on and off-- this backplane isn't a back-light, simply a way to activate each pixel. Where you also might be confused is about LG's use of white OLED sub pixels with RGB&W color filters vs. Samsung's method of utilizing actual RGB sub pixels.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLED


From the wiki: "An OLED display works without a backlight; thus, it can display deep black levels and can be thinner and lighter than a liquid crystal display (LCD). In low ambient light conditions (such as a dark room), an OLED screen can achieve a higher contrast ratio than an LCD, regardless of whether the LCD uses cold cathode fluorescent lamps or an LED backlight."

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post #86 of 282 Old 03-23-2016, 01:26 PM
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Size has little to do if heat will be an issue in a displays. But OLED is already proven in small sizes. It is refresh is close to as poor as LCD with CRT, DLP and PDP all doing much better.

Again, this is incorrect. While it's true that OLED can vary in response time, most every OLED display now has virtually instantaneous pixel response time. The issue is not OLED's response time but rather the sample-and-hold method of image creation. By utilizing a high frame rate source or through creative frame interpolation or black frame insertion OLED can perform just as well as 'flicker' or 'impule' based displays like CRT or plasma. The "blur" results not from an inherent flaw of the technology but rather a quirk of how our eyes and brains perceive motion. And everyone perceives their world a little differently so some are more sensitive to this effect than others.
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post #87 of 282 Old 03-23-2016, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
If I understand you correctly, you are saying that a stationary logo creates the exact same screen after effect (dark spots) as stationary black bars from viewing a lot of 4:3 content. That would make sense if the logo was dark like the black bars. It would not make sense if a bright white stationary logo created the exact same screen after effect as black bars. Black stationary objects and white stationary objects should have exactly the opposite effect on image retention, whether the IR is short-term or persistent (burn-in). One should appear lighter than the rest of the screen and the other should appear darker.
I want to make a distinction here. It seems that logo and ticker stuff cause darker black areas on a dark screen. The darker screen where logo has been is round and 1/3 of a logo.

The edge of black bar goes beyond that, it is not just black, it is also kind of shiny/glowy black which is odd since the rest of the black bar has no impact. When looking close up there is a tiny black line on the edge of the black bar going from left to right which is most visible when black bar content is running. This is not visible from viewing distance unless the screen/part of the screen is dark.
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post #88 of 282 Old 03-23-2016, 02:20 PM
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But OLED is not self-emissive. It has thin film backlight
No, 100 times no (thanks Sage). A backplane is not a backlight.
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post #89 of 282 Old 03-23-2016, 03:23 PM
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Still hoping for a pic of the problem from the OP. And less talk about OLED. Just Google how to transfer pics from phone to computer and upload here.
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post #90 of 282 Old 03-23-2016, 03:27 PM
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A back light can be made to be that thin. OLED has not been shown to have microsecond response times either. And again, the liquid crystal is designed around the transistors in such a was as to open when electricity is applied to a pixel. There are also viewing angle problems with WOLED. These I don't believe have been solved. So all I see, as now, is a technology based on liquid crystal diodes.
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