Boy, am I glad I still have a Plasma - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 61 Old 05-26-2016, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post
Thats too bad , i saw one on sale for $850 on nyc.
Im gonna try replacing the power supply board first. I gots no power to the unit at all.

Ill open it up not this Sunday but next, to see what I can see.

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post #32 of 61 Old 05-26-2016, 08:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post
My Panasonic 51F8500 just farted and died after a year and a half of daily use.
Don't you mean Samsung? Panasonic's actually last.

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post #33 of 61 Old 05-26-2016, 10:03 PM
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Don't you mean Samsung? Panasonic's actually last.

Ian
Yeah Samsung. First Samsung product I bought since 2000, when I bought 3 attrocious duds and swore off Samsung for 15 years.

36" CRT
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DVD Player

All crappy trash.

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post #34 of 61 Old 05-27-2016, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post
Yeah Samsung. First Samsung product I bought since 2000, when I bought 3 atrocious duds and swore off Samsung for 15 years.

36" CRT
VCR
DVD Player

All crappy trash.
Same here, we finally swore off buying Samsung products after every one of our Samsung products failed - all while still under warranty (PC monitor, DVD Player, a Printer, 2 small LCD TVs, 3 cell phones, and a high-end refrigerator). Then dealing with the absolute worst customer service we have ever experienced when trying to get them to arrange for service or repair or replacement of said defective items.

But i've also noticed a downturn in build quality and customer service among current Panasonic and Sony TVs over the past few years, and seeing complaints from owners who are experiencing poor customer service when calling.


Escape V - did you happen to buy that TV with a good credit card that automatically adds one year to the manufacturer's factory warranty? If so, they'll probably refund you the purchase price of the TV since it failed during year #2.

.
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post #35 of 61 Old 05-27-2016, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post
But i've also noticed a downturn in build quality and customer service among current Panasonic and Sony TVs over the past few years, and seeing complaints from owners who are experiencing poor customer service when calling.
True, but that applies to most consumer electronics today. According to CR, Panasonic still has the lowest repair rate, and Sony has become one of the most reliable TV brands since they started producing LCD's. Believe it or not, back in the day, only RCA CRT's had a higher failure rate then the Sony Trinitron.

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post #36 of 61 Old 05-27-2016, 03:00 PM
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Nah, I paid cash for the Sammy. I meant to get a Square Trade extended warranty on it, but it slipped my mind till it was too late.

Im gonna try a new power supply board. It's dead. Red light doesnt even come on (usually illuminated when powered down)

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post #37 of 61 Old 05-27-2016, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post
Seems like OLED pricing is actually going up this year. From CNET: LG OLED TV's aren't getting any cheaper


Ian
I love my Samsung DLP, the last good DLP they ever made, it has a LED light engine developed by MIT, and it did away with the spinning mirrors, and light bulb. It has a great picture. It won't beat a good Plasma, but it does beat any LCD TV, or what some refer to as LED TV.

I read an article a while back that said that they were going to cut back on OLED production because the demand was not great enough. Well that makes sense, if they cost $10k, you are not going to sell one to me.

News flash, as we get older, our eyes are not so good. I am 60, and I don't need glasses, but I also don't need a better TV than I have. Watching Tv has always boiled down to content, not picture quality. Granted, a poor picture would be a distraction, but a good picture, and a great picture all come before the kind of picture you get with OLED. OLED usually gets a response like Oh my God, or Is that 3D?

Really, if you had to watch the most awful movie, would you care how good the picture was? if you sat and watched the most interesting movie, would you care if the picture was Oh my God quality, or would a great Plasma, or DLP image be good enough?

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post #38 of 61 Old 05-27-2016, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post
Seems like OLED pricing is actually going up this year. From CNET: LG OLED TV's aren't getting any cheaper


Ian
Those are MSRPs; street prices are much lower.

When on sale the 65" LG 65EF9500 OLED is often available for $3500 or less.
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post #39 of 61 Old 05-27-2016, 10:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post
Those are MSRPs; street prices are much lower.

When on sale the 65" LG 65EF9500 OLED is often available for $3500 or less.
I'm certain Katzmier realizes that. The point is, the newer 2016 models have gone up.

Ian
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post #40 of 61 Old 05-28-2016, 08:11 PM
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@mailiang

wow, when i read the article about LG's new OLED models the first thought to my mind was "It couldn't be a better time to own a good plasma" then i saw this thread not 10sec later.

Years ago I remember buying the top of the line consumer LCD it was like $3,000 (the brand and year isn't important) what is important is now those same 52" tv's are going for 800-1000. So, with all the OLED issues still getting worked out and the other features like 4k, DV/HDR10/...ect I'm really not interested one bit at spending 4,000-8,000 just to be a beta tester for the next year or two for the OLED/HDR craze.

HDR has got kinks to work out and 4k is far from readily accessible concerning source material like TV series steaming and BluRay movies.

Its getting there, but I want it all working properly. And sure there are 4k BluRays sold now but I will be more tempted when the 1080p content is readily getting pushed aside in the center isle (discount $9.99) bins at the stores. pretty much like DVD was a few years ago.

It will take the above changes for me to make the big decision to finally leave the best viewing (TV/Gaming/Movie) experience since CRT and that's my Plasma.

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post #41 of 61 Old 05-28-2016, 08:26 PM
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It was calibrated by D-Nice and the picture still blows me away at times. Just added a Darbee 5000S and like the added "pop" it gives.
First you pay for a calibaration and then you ruin the pq with one of those damned Darbees.
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post #42 of 61 Old 05-28-2016, 08:38 PM
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yea they arent cheap, but the prices in the CNET article are not completely accurate. the C6 and B6 will be 4999 within a couple weeks once they reach retailers. and if you look hard enough, you can find them online for the 3800 range, which should drop through the year (at 65"). alot of the issues from 2015 have been fixed, color gamut nicely bumped up as was brightness/shadow detail. overall the picture just beats up on plasmas. the motion isnt quite up to par, but still alot better on 2016 models over 2015s. im looking to get a C6 at some point this year because im gonna be able to get it for a pretty decent price.

sound and vision magazine put a samsung JS9500 (full array LCD) up against a panasonic VT60 plasma with 4k hdr vs 1080P and the samsung LED actually came away the winner. if the JS9500 can beat one of the best plasmas, that means the new oleds will probably smoke it. another year or 2 and i think what little nervousness plasma owners have will be gone.
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post #43 of 61 Old 05-28-2016, 08:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by W3Rman View Post
@mailiang

wow, when i read the article about LG's new OLED models the first thought to my mind was "It couldn't be a better time to own a good plasma" then i saw this thread not 10sec later.

Years ago I remember buying the top of the line consumer LCD it was like $3,000 (the brand and year isn't important) what is important is now those same 52" tv's are going for 800-1000. So, with all the OLED issues still getting worked out and the other features like 4k, DV/HDR10/...ect I'm really not interested one bit at spending 4,000-8,000 just to be a beta tester for the next year or two for the OLED/HDR craze.

HDR has got kinks to work out and 4k is far from readily accessible concerning source material like TV series steaming and BluRay movies.

Its getting there, but I want it all working properly. And sure there are 4k BluRays sold now but I will be more tempted when the 1080p content is readily getting pushed aside in the center isle (discount $9.99) bins at the stores. pretty much like DVD was a few years ago.

It will take the above changes for me to make the big decision to finally leave the best viewing (TV/Gaming/Movie) experience since CRT and that's my Plasma.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/167-pl...l#post44356017


Ian
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post #44 of 61 Old 05-28-2016, 09:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
sound and vision magazine put a samsung JS9500 (full array LCD) up against a panasonic VT60 plasma with 4k hdr vs 1080P and the samsung LED actually came away the winner. if the JS9500 can beat one of the best plasmas, that means the new oleds will probably smoke it. another year or 2 and i think what little nervousness plasma owners have will be gone.
I read that review also, but I don't believe it was a great comparison since Tom's ZT60 (not VT60) isn't one of the brightest PDP's and setting the Panny's panel brightness to high introduces clipping. A better comparison would be with the likes of a Samsung F8500, even though it's blacks aren't quite as deep. That being said, I have to agree that the future is with OLED or QLED display technology, but we must keep in mind it's still in its infancy.


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Last edited by mailiang; 05-29-2016 at 07:55 AM. Reason: Typo
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post #45 of 61 Old 05-28-2016, 10:29 PM
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never been a fan of plasmas for live football...but glad you are happy.

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post #46 of 61 Old 05-28-2016, 11:25 PM
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^ LoL , I confused this link to your post in the above thread for as a direct statement That'll teach me never to make fried egg sandwiches while reading and posting on the forums. I deleted my post.

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Originally Posted by mailiang View Post
Just my 2 cents. Most of us will agree that the most important aspect of UHD when it come to PQ is HDR. In a recent review of the new Samsung UHD BD player, Tom Norton (S&V) pointed out that every time you switch form HDR material to non-HDR, you have to tweak the picture controls, particularly the ones that effect brightness and gamma. He also went on to say that this is an major issue the industry needs to address. IMO, this is not the best time to jump on the UHD bandwagon. Since UHD is in it's infancy, it not only has a long way to go in terms of economics and programming, but in terms of practicality as well.

Ian
I couldn't agree more with your post and also Steve Shaw on HDR

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...l#post44327417

Start the video P2 at about 4:48min
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post #47 of 61 Old 05-28-2016, 11:51 PM
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HDR is nice, but zero blacks are what I'm really after. My OLED, today, will never become obsolete when accounting for that parameter. I hope to get a good 5 years at minimum out of it.
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post #48 of 61 Old 05-29-2016, 12:49 AM
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Same here, we finally swore off buying Samsung products after every one of our Samsung products failed - all while still under warranty (PC monitor, DVD Player, a Printer, 2 small LCD TVs, 3 cell phones, and a high-end refrigerator). Then dealing with the absolute worst customer service we have ever experienced when trying to get them to arrange for service or repair or replacement of said defective items.

But i've also noticed a downturn in build quality and customer service among current Panasonic and Sony TVs over the past few years, and seeing complaints from owners who are experiencing poor customer service when calling.


Escape V - did you happen to buy that TV with a good credit card that automatically adds one year to the manufacturer's factory warranty? If so, they'll probably refund you the purchase price of the TV since it failed during year #2.

.
Wow, I've never heard of anyone having that type of failure rate across all product lines. Did you buy from "The Samsung Lemon Center?" Do you produce your own dirty electricity?

All electronics can have issues but the odds of having your failure rate are astronomical. Maybe you're "The Samsung Cooler!"

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post #49 of 61 Old 05-29-2016, 01:29 AM
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[QUOTE=mailiang;44363873]I read that review also, but I don't believe it was a great comparison since Tom's ZT60 (not VT60) isn't one of the brightest PDP's and setting the Panny's panel brightness to high introduces clipping. A better comparison would be with the likes of a Samsung F8500, even though it's blacks are quite as deep. That being said, I have to agree that the future is with OLED or QLED display technology, but we must keep in mind it's still in its infancy.


Ian

Remember, Ian, in the long run, we're all dead. OLED is still a niche product with a poor price/performance ratio. 4K/UHD/HDR/OLED and QLED are still relatively new and the lack of 4K/HDR content and standards will slow the adoption rate.

Personally, I never understood the Plasma buzz - pun intended. Plasma was considered when I was looking for a large screen 4+ years ago but I couldn't get over the many issues it had with burn in, heat, buzz, electrical consumption, weight and lack of picture "pop," which I know is a personal preference.

All TV's have issues. That's why I strongly believe in an extended warranty for at least five years full coverage for piece of mind. By then, you'll be looking to upgrade or you'll try to milk a couple more years out of the set before you buy again.

I'm very happy with a solid 1080P picture from my Sammy 65" LCD and 100" projection screen via my BenQ W1080 ST and Darbee Darblet.

I'm satisfied with the quality of current Blu-ray Discs and have no urge to get a 4K player or the pricey UHD format. I've gotten the most enjoyment out of Dolby Atmos and DTS Neo X - Cinema Mode, notwithstanding many studios decision to withhold immersive soundtracks and include them only on the UHD format.

All technologies have their day. Unfortunately for Plasma, that time has come and gone. If folks want to keep enjoying their Plasma TV's for as long as they can, than good for them. I don't miss what I never really had or wanted and will continue to try and maximize the current technology I have at a price point that makes sense for me.

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post #50 of 61 Old 05-29-2016, 02:37 AM
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It is also a sad fact here that many people have multiple user ids and post incessantly about the same issues. That skews the perception of reality imo.
I don't think that is happening: if you have an example of this please PM me:

it would be very unusual since the forum software would have picked it up: it is very effective

multiple ID posting results in an automatic ban from AVS of all such accounts
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post #51 of 61 Old 05-29-2016, 08:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post
Personally, I never understood the Plasma buzz - pun intended. Plasma was considered when I was looking for a large screen 4+ years ago but I couldn't get over the many issues it had with burn in, heat, buzz, electrical consumption, weight and lack of picture "pop," which I know is a personal preference.
I think burn in, buzz, heat, and electrical consumption is a bit overblown. I've had two plasma's and I never had to deal with those issues. Since most plasma's have deep blacks and higher then average contrast levels, they certainly have plenty of pop. Peak brightness and aggressive ABL's are usually the drawbacks with these displays, so they don't do well in bright rooms. However, under controlled lighting conditions, IMO, they still beat the pants off of most LCD's.

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post #52 of 61 Old 05-29-2016, 12:30 PM
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when has bang and olufsen ever made something cheaper?

that quote sounds like they will rebadge some oleds and sell them for 20grand to 1%ers...

hopefully there's good news somewhere else in that article, i did not have the patience to comb through

Ever heard of the ICE amp module? B&O brought this tech mainstream, resulting in some seriously powerful sub amps at a very low price.
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post #53 of 61 Old 05-29-2016, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post
Remember, Ian, in the long run, we're all dead. OLED is still a niche product with a poor price/performance ratio. 4K/UHD/HDR/OLED and QLED are still relatively new and the lack of 4K/HDR content and standards will slow the adoption rate.
You inadvertently gave an argument for NOT waiting for the perfect price/performance ratio: Mortality.

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Personally, I never understood the Plasma buzz - pun intended. Plasma was considered when I was looking for a large screen 4+ years ago but I couldn't get over the many issues it had with burn in, heat, buzz, electrical consumption, weight and lack of picture "pop," which I know is a personal preference.
All you need to know is the best plasmas excelled in the contrast ratio department, making them superior for cinematic viewing. This is why they won shootout after shootout, against all manner of LCDs (the lone exception was the Sharp Elite, which beat out Panasonic's middling VT30 in that all-important contrast ratio/black level parameter).

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I'm satisfied with the quality of current Blu-ray Discs and have no urge to get a 4K player or the pricey UHD format.
The UHD Blu-ray format is practically priced the same as Blu-ray HD when it arrived.

Quote:
All technologies have their day. Unfortunately for Plasma, that time has come and gone. If folks want to keep enjoying their Plasma TV's for as long as they can, than good for them. I don't miss what I never really had or wanted and will continue to try and maximize the current technology I have at a price point that makes sense for me.
There's a reason that threads like these continue to surface. It would be a no-man's land in flat-screen tech if not for OLED pushing the envelope and forcing the LCD laggards to respond.
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post #54 of 61 Old 05-29-2016, 01:47 PM
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Had Plasma not died, I wonder where it would be now. Perhaps with OLED there would have been more motivation to bring Zero Idle Luminance plasma past concept/ prototype stage and actually get it out there. You could also argue that OLED made it pointless to ever bring perfect black Plasma's out I suppose, but since there are still a few areas Plasma wins over OLED like uniformity, shadow detail, and motion (at least for now and likely for a bit) I bet a great many videophiles who have gone to OLED would have chose a perfect black Plasma instead.
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post #55 of 61 Old 05-29-2016, 06:05 PM
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There is a difference between a perfect price/performance balance and a reasonable one. OLED's are still overpriced and a niche market. I keep on hearing about OLED prices getting more and more competitive but I haven't observed it. Let me know when you can see a 65" or 70" OLED TV at your local Costco.

One of the reasons I first looked at the VT60 was the great write ups it had from the "Technical Experts.". It was the very first TV I asked to see. Maybe it was the lighting in the store or maybe it wasn't calibrated properly. At any rate, I was totally underwhelmed. It was dull and lifeless. It was extremely hot to the touch. Just my experience and opinion.

While I will look at the ratings, shootouts and expert's opinions, it's only part of the equation in evaluating my purchases. And trashing the LCD market doesn't do anybody any good.

If Plasma was viable as a technology and a competitive product, it would still be here today (meaning that it would still be mass produced.)

I'm all for technology and pushing the envelope for better, cheaper and quality big screen TV's. I draw the line at bleeding edge solutions that will never reach my price point. I paid $3,600 for 65" set four plus years ago. That $3,600 goes a lot farther today. But it still is no where near the OLED world.

You can buy a 70" or 75" TV for what I paid for a 65" set a couple years ago. But not an OLED at that size. Again, enjoy your Plasma set if you have one. I still believe you can get a pretty good picture with 1080P and plain old Bluray.

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post #56 of 61 Old 05-30-2016, 01:33 PM
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Nope, I got rid of my plasma for one of the pitfalls you cited actually. To make the ZT60 so thin, some engineering shortcuts (heat dissipation?) apparently had to be made. It would suffer from long-term IR just by watching a day of football. Running a pixel flipper for the next 2 or 3 nights might clear it up, etc. Aside from that sole issue, it was fantastic. Yes, dim for the day, but the PQ at night, which is when I watch most critically, was phenomenal.

Having absolute blacks and pixel level control of them is worth a premium to me, which is why I have an OLED now.
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post #57 of 61 Old 05-30-2016, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vader1 View Post
Had Plasma not died, I wonder where it would be now. Perhaps with OLED there would have been more motivation to bring Zero Idle Luminance plasma past concept/ prototype stage and actually get it out there. You could also argue that OLED made it pointless to ever bring perfect black Plasma's out I suppose, but since there are still a few areas Plasma wins over OLED like uniformity, shadow detail, and motion (at least for now and likely for a bit) I bet a great many videophiles who have gone to OLED would have chose a perfect black Plasma instead.
That is certainly possible, and would have been an interesting comparison, undoubtedly. Oled has other advantages though, like brightness and a less noisy picture (while plasma does have more noise, it can also be argued that oled isn't as filmic), not to mention power consumption and heat (in the southeastern summer this IS a big deal, no matter what some people say)
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post #58 of 61 Old 05-30-2016, 11:11 PM
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Not only in the Southeastern summer, here in the Northeastern summer it's been a bit of an issue for me since the weather got warm especially since I went from the 5080 to the 111FD. Only been with it a few days but I can tell it gets a little hotter and it does so quicker than the 5080 did. It will sure be nice next winter I guess.

OLED has a lot of advantages, and I really do think it's the future and I think that is a good thing. I still do find myself wishing from time to time that Plasma had continued on a few more years, I would have loved to see even just one line of 4K Plasma's. I wonder if Quantum Dots could have been used in any way to enhance Plasma's in a similar way they being used for LCD's right now. Could the Phosphors in the Plasma cells have been replaced entirely with a QD material? I have no idea if something prevents this from working and maybe somebody knows better, but hypothetically speaking if possible QD PDP could have possibly solved most of the issues with the technology like lack of energy efficiency and relative lack of brightness.

Now I wish this existed.
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post #59 of 61 Old 05-31-2016, 03:30 PM
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Joining the club of "happy plasma owner" :-)


I own my ST60 for 3 years now and it has 8000 hrs on the clock. It is like day one.


Plasma had a very low market share. But where is oled now? LG only burns money huge.


Panasonic quit the plasma production and their Nr. 1 home entertainment product and make a oled tv that is so expensive that even die hard fans dont buy it. I dont understand that logic.


Companies burn money on the cheap models, they earn with the medium and premium models.


They should make a 2017 anniversary plasma model, best plasma on the planet and just collect the money. There are also a lot of people that dont want a 4k tv. But imagine a new plasma model that can actually play 4k material with the new codec and hdmi 2.0 and whatsoever, new smart stuff, and superfast gaming lag, downscale it to 1080p plasma glory.


I would guess that almost EVERY Plasma owner could hardly resist on getting one


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post #60 of 61 Old 05-31-2016, 04:35 PM
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Last year LG finally made a profit on OLED and that was a lot faster than anybody thought they would. Now with Panasonic, Skyworth, and Phillips jumping in and it taking over the mobile market it is most likely going to keep gaining momentum. I keep hearing people saying OLED is too expensive and while I do agree LG took a slight step back with their entry model this year the 9100 can be had for under 1500 from the right places now and that's only the beginning. The first OLED tv's were 2012/ 2013 and now you can get an OLED for under 3K. That's a huge drop in it's original price in only 4 years. Plasma took more time than that to get that low and they were in even smaller sizes. In 2004 Sony sold a 42 inch LCD for nearly 10K, and 10 to 15 years from now somebody is going to be saying how QLED (or whatever display tech is just starting to come out then) is too expensive and how it can't compete with OLED's prices. It's a matter of time.

And Plasma is not coming back... all the labs are gone, the raw materials gone, everything required to start production is gone and for Panasonic to start that all back up themselves would probably cost them more than OLED does at this point. Panasonic might not even have a future in TV's much longer with their financial troubles.
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