I want 4K, I want HDR... but I don't want to stop using my plasma. - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 68 Old 12-08-2016, 02:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ANEWMadrid View Post
I would say old SD content did look better on my Plasma from like 2010 but that was generations ago. I mostly play Destiny (PS4 pro now) and in game mode this tv has bested any other that i have had for picture and response.
If you haven't gotten a UHD player, pick one up and watch a couple of the titles out there. It may not have the blackest of the black but the overall picture is just great looking.

Now you are set for all the ever expanding content and if you want to watch the Plasma you still can. Plus like you said in a couple years you can get the OLED and sell this one to someone.
I have a Xbox One S, so I should be all set. You have any suggestions as to something that really shows off the content best?
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post #32 of 68 Old 12-08-2016, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by booloo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ANEWMadrid View Post
I would say old SD content did look better on my Plasma from like 2010 but that was generations ago. I mostly play Destiny (PS4 pro now) and in game mode this tv has bested any other that i have had for picture and response.
If you haven't gotten a UHD player, pick one up and watch a couple of the titles out there. It may not have the blackest of the black but the overall picture is just great looking.

Now you are set for all the ever expanding content and if you want to watch the Plasma you still can. Plus like you said in a couple years you can get the OLED and sell this one to someone.
I have a Xbox One S, so I should be all set. You have any suggestions as to something that really shows off the content best?
X-men apocalypse looked really good on UHD and so did Pacific Rim. I just watched the Revenent and the fire scene was just spectacular. Also at best buy if you buy two UHD movies it gives you a discount . I got Jason Bourne and I am legend both for 45
bux total.
I would recommend looking at the different pic setting people have on the KS8000 forum and dial it in to your liking. Also don't forget you can cast from your phone, tablet, talk to it via the remote, run a bunch of apps and toasts bread
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post #33 of 68 Old 12-08-2016, 03:25 PM
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Thanks for this thread guys. I'm in a similar boat and its re-assuring that others who've tried 4k TV's at home are saying keep waiting.
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post #34 of 68 Old 12-08-2016, 11:46 PM
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For OTA, plasma is best

I have 4k LED and for OTA broadcast and non-4k streaming, it has every possible disadvantage to plasma except for energy use & heat in the summer months.

4k makes human skin texture look waxy, processed and unnatural. Motion adds countless more problems. Football is unwatchable.
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post #35 of 68 Old 12-09-2016, 03:15 AM
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Originally Posted by 939 View Post
HDR, 4K are technical nonsense if you think about it.
4K in anything below 75" is simply indistinguishable from 1080p.
HDR on an LCD sure, only the LCD itself has a so limited dynamic range that it's laughable.
OLED on the other hand still has a lot in common with LCD, it's also sample and hold hence cannot resolve more than 600 lines of motion far, far away from the 2160 available to 4K...And the blacks, sure it can make absolute black but at the expense of badly crushing near blacks, all details on black scenes are lost. Take a look on the Sully movie, the taxi scene at the beginning is displaying a whole palette of black tones. Watch it on OLED you get a black blob, watch it on plasma and be amazed....
No, just no. After calibration or a simple tweaking of the white balance settings to raise gamma near IRE5, you will have next to no crushing.
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post #36 of 68 Old 12-09-2016, 03:48 AM
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
No, just no. After calibration or a simple tweaking of the white balance settings to raise gamma near IRE5, you will have next to no crushing.
While raising black levels and thus removing the absolute black argument and black crushing will still be present.

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post #37 of 68 Old 12-09-2016, 05:02 AM
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Nope, the white balance settings (luminance and RGB values) provide for very fine-tuned adjustments unlike the more coarse universal brightness setting. Cross-referencing your chosen white balance settings with a 0% full black field pattern will enable you to choose the best settings to minimize crush. If it was a serious problem, it would have shown up in the scoring at the Value Electronics shootout earlier this year (where a Kuro was also on display).

Oh, and that shootout already proved your contention wrong about nothing beating out plasma. Yes, the Kuro (500M) held up well with SDR content and shouldn't be shoved aside if you're content with what you have, but the OLED will give noticeably better contrast performance. It is for that reason that I enjoy my G6's PQ more so than the ZT60 that was replaced.

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post #38 of 68 Old 12-09-2016, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
Nope, the white balance settings (luminance and RGB values) provide for very fine-tuned adjustments unlike the more coarse universal brightness setting. Cross-referencing your chosen white balance settings with a 0% full black field pattern will enable you to choose the best settings to minimize crush. If it was a serious problem, it would have shown up in the scoring at the Value Electronics shootout earlier this year (where a Kuro was also on display).

Oh, and that shootout already proved your contention wrong about nothing beating out plasma. Yes, the Kuro (500M) held up well with SDR content and shouldn't be shoved aside if you're content with what you have, but the OLED will give noticeably better contrast performance. It is for that reason that I enjoy my G6's PQ more so than the ZT60 that was replaced.
I won't go into calibration techniques and details but white balance (10 point etc.) will tell you nothing about near-black (10% and less). This is the area where OLED still suffers and hopefully the upcoming LG models will address the current issues. Near black not withstanding motion handling is still an issue no calibration will resolve, sorry.

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post #39 of 68 Old 12-09-2016, 04:11 PM
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It's an overblown issue and I'm almost positive 2017 will show similar performance. Making adjustments to the gamma will certainly bring out more detail near black. Your claims of "badly crushing near blacks" are incorrect.
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post #40 of 68 Old 12-10-2016, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by MrDell View Post
Still enjoying my 60 inch Pioneer Kuro that is still going strong eight years later. Very pleasant on the eyes at night, and in the winter it can be used as an alternate heat source

LMAO and me thinking i was the only one doing this
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post #41 of 68 Old 12-10-2016, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by MrDell View Post
Still enjoying my 60 inch Pioneer Kuro that is still going strong eight years later. Very pleasant on the eyes at night, and in the winter it can be used as an alternate heat source
Following this thread with great deal of interest as I too have a Pioneer KURO, but am looking to get into 4K.
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post #42 of 68 Old 12-10-2016, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by booloo View Post
Oh gosh, I didn't even mention what I am using. Downstairs is a 51F5300b
if you watch head on
I think you could be very happy with a high end LCD or OLED
Either would be a definite improvement

I have pretty much always been a plasma person
In fact my main Tv is a Samsung 64F8500. I am still awed by it and how well it looks good in a dark of sunlit room
I also own a Sony 65X950B...a very nice LCD and is neck and neck with the Samsung plasma ( overall0 when watched head on

I also have a samsung 60KS8000
While I dont think it would be worth it for just 4K. I am very impressed with HDR

Its too bad they didnt make 1080P Tv's with HDR

The color and shadow detail are pretty impressive

Other than that...the Samsung and Sony are both great TV in a bright room and watched head on
The Samsung has some light bleed in a dark room that bugs me
The Sony cannot do HDR...but other than that its a better Tv than the edge lit Samsung KS8000 in every way

For a plasma guy for a main TV. I say OLED is your best friend, especially for a high end plasma

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post #43 of 68 Old 12-10-2016, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by menzerna View Post
Following this thread with great deal of interest as I too have a Pioneer KURO, but am looking to get into 4K.
and LG OLED is your friend

Nothing else will do

Warren
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post #44 of 68 Old 12-11-2016, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post
and LG OLED is your friend

Nothing else will do

Warren
I do like the OLED very much, though I looked at the new Sony and liked them too. I don't know if patience is a virtue in this case

Thanks for the feedback
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post #45 of 68 Old 12-11-2016, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by menzerna View Post
I do like the OLED very much, though I looked at the new Sony and liked them too. I don't know if patience is a virtue in this case

Thanks for the feedback
I'm actually thinking about the 930d myself.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
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post #46 of 68 Old 12-11-2016, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by menzerna View Post
I do like the OLED very much, though I looked at the new Sony and liked them too. I don't know if patience is a virtue in this case

Thanks for the feedback
the viewing angles might be an issue for you with LED
Unless you only watch head on

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post #47 of 68 Old 12-12-2016, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by JPG3 View Post
LMAO and me thinking i was the only one doing this
Isn't it amazing the amount of heat these sets generate!! It really is something how we all feel about our plasmas. So hard to give up this picture quality, although It took a lot of convincing in 2008 to get the wife to agree to spend $4,500 for a TV. I think the Oleds will be very appealing to plasma owners as far as picture quality is concerned.
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post #48 of 68 Old 12-20-2016, 10:17 AM
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I understand your thoughts with plasma TVs. I also have the same TV as you and I love it.

I plan on using my plasma as a secondary TV after I go OLED. LCD just doesn't cut it for me after witnessing plasma. 4K HDR OLED is the next best thing for me. I'd love to go LG B6
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post #49 of 68 Old 12-22-2016, 11:40 PM
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Question.....if I/you have a 60" or so TV...from 10 feet viewing distance....are we going to see any benefit from HDR or 4K if we don't have 20/10 vision in both our eyes ???

With regular HD cable ?

With a Blu-Ray player ?

With NetFlix or other streaming ?
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post #50 of 68 Old 12-23-2016, 09:10 AM
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At 10 feet from a 60 inch TV, I do not think that you will be able to see the difference in resolution between 1080p and 4K. HDR would be an improvement though. I think you would need at least a 75 inch TV to start to see the difference with 4K resolution, but you would need an even larger set to really be able to see all the pixels.
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post #51 of 68 Old 12-23-2016, 06:32 PM
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The resolution is irrelevant. No benefit at normal viewing distances. HDR however is the game changer along with the black levels of an OLED. Pretty simple really.
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post #52 of 68 Old 12-25-2016, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Test Ickles View Post
The resolution is irrelevant. No benefit at normal viewing distances. HDR however is the game changer along with the black levels of an OLED. Pretty simple really.
Is there any Forum preference yet on the LG OLED vs. the Sony Z9?

Prices on the Sony will be coming down more soon (I hope)
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post #53 of 68 Old 12-26-2016, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by menzerna View Post
Is there any Forum preference yet on the LG OLED vs. the Sony Z9?

Prices on the Sony will be coming down more soon (I hope)
i think most plasma fans are going to lean towards the oled.

the best FALD ever imagined is still going to be a few MILLION zones shy of 'enough'

the sony is a nice 'overall package' but i don't think it's better on a pure PQ standpoint, and definitely not when value is thrown into the mix
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post #54 of 68 Old 12-26-2016, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
i think most plasma fans are going to lean towards the oled.

the best FALD ever imagined is still going to be a few MILLION zones shy of 'enough'

the sony is a nice 'overall package' but i don't think it's better on a pure PQ standpoint, and definitely not when value is thrown into the mix
Thank you. I'm not too techy and that's the kind of feedback I need and appreciate.
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post #55 of 68 Old 12-26-2016, 09:24 PM
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I already posted this in the "What replaces Plasma?" thread
but its well worth repeating here too.

Just swapped out my 9 y/o 50" Kuro for a 65" OLED
and I must say 4K UHD bluray in HDR is Amazing!



The 65" was a perfect fit


and the Bigger big screen, 120" with my JVC X750(RS500) Projector









...that's what replaces Plasma in my room

The Kuro was moved to my spare room/den, still works fine
and I still have an even older 5070 Pio in the Master Bedroom.

Love my Pio Plasma's ....best TV's ever
but 4K and HDR are BOTH good reasons to upgrade.
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post #56 of 68 Old 12-26-2016, 11:39 PM
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I'm also a Panasonic plasma owner that is waiting for the price on OLED to go down. I was happy to see other people feel the same way.

I came across this thread while looking for information about home theater projectors. I'm trying to decide what type of projector will give me a good enough picture quality in a dedicated theater room. I see plenty of people give positive reviews of sub $1000 projectors, but I'm not convinced yet.
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post #57 of 68 Old 12-27-2016, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ToddGsell View Post
I'm also a Panasonic plasma owner that is waiting for the price on OLED to go down. I was happy to see other people feel the same way.

I came across this thread while looking for information about home theater projectors. I'm trying to decide what type of projector will give me a good enough picture quality in a dedicated theater room. I see plenty of people give positive reviews of sub $1000 projectors, but I'm not convinced yet.
there are some GOOD projectors in the sub 1000 range. in that, in a dedicated room with a decent screen, i'd take a sub $1000 projector over any lcd on the market today. but to get something that competes with plasma/oled, i feel you need to look at one of the lcos projectors. i'm a fan of the jvc's personally, but they won't be under 1000

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post #58 of 68 Old 12-29-2016, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
there are some GOOD projectors in the sub 1000 range. in that, in a dedicated room with a decent screen, i'd take a sub $1000 projector over any lcd on the market today. but to get something that competes with plasma/oled, i feel you need to look at one of the lcos projectors. i'm a fan of the jvc's personally, but they won't be under 1000
I'm a fan of JVC as well. Unfortunately, they're above the price range I'm considering. Your comments really reflect what I've been thinking. Right now I'm looking at the Sony VPL-HW45ES versus something under $1000 like the BenQ HT2050. I'm just not sure if the extra $1000 for the Sony will be worth it--or if the rainbow effect that some people notice with cheaper projectors is something that will bother anyone in my household. Part of me thinks I should go with the cheaper projector for now and then spend more once the 4k projectors come down in price.
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post #59 of 68 Old 12-29-2016, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ToddGsell View Post
I'm a fan of JVC as well. Unfortunately, they're above the price range I'm considering. Your comments really reflect what I've been thinking. Right now I'm looking at the Sony VPL-HW45ES versus something under $1000 like the BenQ HT2050. I'm just not sure if the extra $1000 for the Sony will be worth it--or if the rainbow effect that some people notice with cheaper projectors is something that will bother anyone in my household. Part of me thinks I should go with the cheaper projector for now and then spend more once the 4k projectors come down in price.
i was lucky, when i was looking JVC still made a 'almost cheap' 1080p model. I was able to pick up an x35 and i've been very happy with it. as much as i would like 4k or even 'faux-k' literally 100% of my sources will be 1080p or less for at least another 2years if not 5. but the black levels are so darn impressive! fades to black are really black. the only 'weak spot' is with low APL scenes. projectors being what they are, need REALLY good light control in the room, and even then, it's hard to maintain blacks when there is a little bit of light on the screen.

sony seems to have that 'mid-range' price point cornered right now. nothing between about $1000-$4000 that really impresses me(though i haven't been actively looking, so perhaps Epson or somebody else has a strong player in that segment now?) other than the sony

before i bought my first projector, i spend some time at local stores viewing what they had. nothing they had was even by the same manufacturer, but it at least gave me a frame of reference, and between that and online reviews i had a decent idea of what i was getting. like it's hard to make a decision based on rainbow effect if you don't even know if you see it or not.

personally, i'm more a fan of buying the 'right' product the first time. maybe broaden your search to some used JVC's as well? honestly anything above the x35(newer, or higher model) would get my thumbs up. there's no shortage of good options. then again, if a decent dlp like the benq is good enough, there's nothing wrong with saving money either!

you'll have to take this with a grain of salt, but it might help convince you one way or another.
comparison shots of my brand new x35 vs an old 3LCD(epson HC720) with over 1000hrs on it. the jvc was not yet calibrated in these pics.
JVC/Epson

Epson/JVC

JVC/Epson


the scary thing is, i've used the epson since this, and it still presents a 'watchable' image for most content. the jvc just makes it look so terrible by comparison, especially in the dark details/contrast. that being said, a decent, new dlp would destroy that tired old epson too

this is a comparison between my samsung F8500 plasma and the x35. iirc, neither had been calibrated at the time of these pics, and the F8500's color was actually pretty far off before calibration. after a full calibration, the f8500 does have a superior picture, but pre-calibration i actually felt they were extremely close(aside from the color)




Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1130K, 7.1/5.1.2 audio
Sources: HTPC, PS3, XBOX360, Wii
Control: Harmony One

Last edited by fierce_gt; 12-29-2016 at 11:19 PM.
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post #60 of 68 Old 01-01-2017, 05:55 PM
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Let me start by saying that my main TV is a P65ZT60 and I can't see replacing it for a few more years. Even after 3+ years, there isn't a day that goes by that I don't marvel at how good the picture is and that is out of the box. I have never bothered with getting it calibrated!

OLED is the closest and betters the ZT in some ways but for overall viewing experience, it still falls short in certain areas as others have covered. After a couple more iterations, that will likely change.

That all being said, I bought a Vizio P50-c1 for a bedroom and 4k, especially HDR, looks awesome. Granted, viewing is from anywhere between 3 ft and 8 ft so that helps and furthermore, I don't view it with a very critical eye.

However, I find it hard to believe that people can't see a difference in the details of a good 4K transfer, especially when done in HDR as well. Again, overall viewing may not be as good as the ZT but for casual viewing, it is fun to watch!

As 4k and HDR becomes more prevalent, I have no doubt that the itch will set in and I will want to get the best 65" replacement I can find. I can only imagine my ZT displaying 4K and HDR so that is the criteria that I will use when seeking out a replacement.

But, if I didn't have such a good plasma, I would absolutely look at making the change to a high quality 4k set. Not all plasmas are equal (of course) so if you aren't running a ZT or Kuro you can probably find a better viewing option by switching to a non-plasma, 4k/HDR set. (What you view and your delivery mechanism obviously impact how likely it is that you would see a difference.)
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