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post #31 of 56 Old 03-14-2019, 01:12 PM
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So - Plasma for cooler basements (pun intended) and the best motion? My Dad had a plasma set and motion was excellent - - absolutely no judder, whatsoever. Fantastic for all sports - - especially fast moving hockey.

By the way, on my old Plasma, I have a dead sub-pixel. Should I worry about it?

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post #32 of 56 Old 03-14-2019, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post
I was never a big fan of the 3D TV's. My S60 doesn't draw that kind of heat and I have never experience any noticeable phosphor trails.



Ian
How did the lack of 3D change the image for plasma? Both of mine are 3D, I thought that 3D didnt have any effect unless it was switched on.
Power draw/heat I'm sure is more/less noticeable on case by case basis, some people have AC, or large rooms, or other factors that would negate the heating effect and likely would never notice. In my case I would always notice the room would warm up with the TV on. With the OLED I dont notice the room change temperature.
Sadly the S60 lacks a black filter on the screen, for some thats a deal breaker.
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post #33 of 56 Old 03-14-2019, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by plasma_fan View Post
How did the lack of 3D change the image for plasma? Both of mine are 3D, I thought that 3D didnt have any effect unless it was switched on.
Power draw/heat I'm sure is more/less noticeable on case by case basis, some people have AC, or large rooms, or other factors that would negate the heating effect and likely would never notice. In my case I would always notice the room would warm up with the TV on. With the OLED I dont notice the room change temperature.
Sadly the S60 lacks a black filter on the screen, for some thats a deal breaker.

I have no issue with the PQ, but I have found that most people who complain about their plasma's running hot have 3D models, many of which have fans which at times have been problematic. The S60 does not. Since my room has controlled lighting, I find the AR filter more of a minus then a plus, since it reduces brightness on a display that is already dim enough.


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post #34 of 56 Old 03-14-2019, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Which Panasonics have the AR filter? ZT60 only?

Which have 3D?
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post #35 of 56 Old 03-14-2019, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post
So - Plasma for cooler basements (pun intended) and the best motion? My Dad had a plasma set and motion was excellent - - absolutely no judder, whatsoever. Fantastic for all sports - - especially fast moving hockey.

By the way, on my old Plasma, I have a dead sub-pixel. Should I worry about it?


No. A couple of dead pixels even on a new PDP was considered acceptable and most warranties didn't cover it.


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post #36 of 56 Old 03-14-2019, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avsforumrocks View Post
Which Panasonics have the AR filter? ZT60 only?

Which have 3D?


All 3D Panasonic plasma sets have AR filters. Any set with a 'T' in front of it's number, is 3D.


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post #37 of 56 Old 03-14-2019, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm intrigued that most people say the VT60/ST60/ZT60 TVs have a better picture than a Kuro and yet most people seem to prefer a Kuro overall.
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post #38 of 56 Old 03-14-2019, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post
All 3D Panasonic plasma sets have AR filters. Any set with a 'T' in front of it's number, is 3D.

I think the UT50 is the sole exception. IIRC, this one did not have an AR Filter.







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post #39 of 56 Old 03-14-2019, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plasma_fan View Post
Im not sure if the VT/ZT60 had the phosphor trails of the ST60, if not that would be a better way to go. If I was looking for another plasma I would keep an eye out for a Samsung F8500 or a last gen Kuro.
You mention phosphor trails as a negative with the seeming implication that this is a negative that anyone will experience. But the ability to see them is only suffered by a fairly small minority of viewers. For those who can see them, it's certainly understandable to be a deal breaker for them. But for most viewers it wasn't an issue during the plasma-era.
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post #40 of 56 Old 03-15-2019, 01:49 AM
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For the individual who sees them, it is certainly real. YMMV as always, similar to the specter of motion blur and SOE and motion peculiarities in general.
Quote:
Originally Posted by avsforumrocks View Post
I'm intrigued that most people say the VT60/ST60/ZT60 TVs have a better picture than a Kuro and yet most people seem to prefer a Kuro overall.
Who are these "most" people? ST60 certainly didn't better the Kuro, and the only consensus I've seen on the other 2 is that they just about measured up with the stock Kuro TV (with tweaking, it could deliver even deeper blacks, and the monitors also surpassed the black levels of the final Panasonics with no tweaking required). The rest of the comparisons have all centered around hairsplitting various performance parameters.
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post #41 of 56 Old 03-15-2019, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CruelInventions View Post
You mention phosphor trails as a negative with the seeming implication that this is a negative that anyone will experience. But the ability to see them is only suffered by a fairly small minority of viewers. For those who can see them, it's certainly understandable to be a deal breaker for them. But for most viewers it wasn't an issue during the plasma-era.
To be clear, I have never seen phosphor trails on any other plasma, only on my ST60. It will mostly go away after my eyes adjust, however being most of my viewing happens on my OLED now my eyes need to adjust virtually every time I turn on the ST60. I havent seen a VT60/ZT60 in person to see if its a 60 series thing or just the ST60, if I remember the panel between them was totally different.
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post #42 of 56 Old 03-15-2019, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plasma_fan View Post
To be clear, I have never seen phosphor trails on any other plasma, only on my ST60. ....

OK, thanks for the further clarification.

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post #43 of 56 Old 03-15-2019, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by plasma_fan View Post
I havent seen a VT60/ZT60 in person to see if its a 60 series thing or just the ST60, if I remember the panel between them was totally different.

I think the ST60 actually used the same raw panel as the VT and ZT. It was only the S60/S64 that used a different (lesser quality) raw panel. That year (2013).
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post #44 of 56 Old 03-15-2019, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by mailiang View Post
I was never a big fan of the 3D TV's. My S60 doesn't draw that kind of heat and I have never experience any noticeable phosphor trails.

I never noticed any phosphor trails on my S60 either, and it puts out quite a bit less heat than the ST50 it replaced. However, it also doesn't get as bright and has a max power draw that is about 100 watts less. Frankly, I'd rather have the increased brightness and deal with the higher heat output. But that's me.
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post #45 of 56 Old 03-15-2019, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post
I never noticed any phosphor trails on my S60 either, and it puts out quite a bit less heat than the ST50 it replaced. However, it also doesn't get as bright and has a max power draw that is about 100 watts less. Frankly, I'd rather have the increased brightness and deal with the higher heat output. But that's me.
The ST50 measured a peak brightness of 61 FTL compared to the S60's 58. No big deal. It's the more aggressive ABL that makes the S60 dimmer at times, but due to my viewing habits that doesn't bother me.


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post #46 of 56 Old 03-16-2019, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by mailiang View Post
The ST50 measured a peak brightness of 61 FTL compared to the S60's 58. No big deal. It's the more aggressive ABL that makes the S60 dimmer at times, but due to my viewing habits that doesn't bother me.

Yes, it's mainly the more aggressive ABL. A full screen white on the S60 only puts out like 12fL, where as the ST50 puts out like 18fL.
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post #47 of 56 Old 03-16-2019, 04:36 PM
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Yes, it's mainly the more aggressive ABL. A full screen white on the S60 only puts out like 12fL, where as the ST50 puts out like 18fL.


IMO, for the over all viewing experience under controlled lighting, the improved blacks and detail of the S60 more then make up for it.




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post #48 of 56 Old 06-30-2019, 07:59 AM
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Man I want a 75" plasma!!! But since my 65" Samsung is having the power on issues, I'm using the event to move to a 77" OLED. I hope latest refinements help with the motion blur issue. It's my biggest concern and I see it. The Samsun will get repaired and put in another room, but this post is my nemesis.... Sony or LG - hoping cable broadcast get better too and will do over the air for some sports locally.
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post #49 of 56 Old 06-30-2019, 04:33 PM
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I just got a Pro-151FD.

It’s amazing. The hype is real; I had a spiritual experience.

It’s not as good as the Sony A9G OLED. It’s only close. I payed 1/5th of what that would cost.
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post #50 of 56 Old 06-30-2019, 11:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Did you find reference settings for the Pro-151FD? Still looking for optimal settings for my Pro-141FD since D-Nice didn't do that one.
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post #51 of 56 Old 07-01-2019, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by avsforumrocks View Post
Awesome! Do I have the weight correct at ~100 pounds? Am I going after the very best plasma with the ST60/VT60? I've read that the Pioneer Kuro was good too but I think it's older although I could be wrong there.

What should I be looking to pay for a nice 65" ST60/VT60?
Pioneer Kuro is 5 years older than the VT60, but I'd still say the 9G KRP 500-A is the best PDP ever made, and rivals OLED all the way up to 2015.
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post #52 of 56 Old 11-13-2019, 09:02 AM
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I just got a Pro-151FD.

It’s amazing. The hype is real; I had a spiritual experience.

It’s not as good as the Sony A9G OLED. It’s only close. I payed 1/5th of what that would cost.

Clearly the crispness and blacks will be better, but I am curious whether you found the A9G to handle motion as well as the old Kuro. I think it is still 120hz internal.
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post #53 of 56 Old 11-13-2019, 03:18 PM
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I'm from the UK and have a Panasonic EZ952 OLED and two Pioneer 500A's and I can tell you that I watch the KURO as much as the OLED because it still produces an incredible picture for 1080p Blu-Ray's etc

I am a bit of a Plasma lover, I've had a few over the years

Panasonic PZ70
Panasonic ST30
Samsung D8000
Panasonic PF50 x 2
Pioneer 427XD
Pioneer KRP 500A x 3 (2 currently)
Panasonic EZ952 OLED (Professionally Calibrated)

Don't get me wrong, I love the OLED and when fed a quality 4K HDR Blu-Ray it really shines and the picture is draw dropping at times but I'm still drawn to the Kuro, the picture is just sublime, smooth and totally on point. It's the perfect TV of all time IMO, it has no issues, no red tint (tweaked), no banding (OLED Common Issue in low IRE), no DSE, No tinting just a perfect TV and the motion is vastly superior, especially in 72hz mode.

If you can pick up a 500A or M I would say definitely do it, these TV's are timeless, 11 years old and they still hold their own with SDR content IMO and are much more satisfying to watch
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post #54 of 56 Old 11-14-2019, 10:13 AM
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It is unreal that these Plasma Tvs are already 10 Years old..

https://www.slashgear.com/pioneer-co...april-2438679/

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post #55 of 56 Old 11-14-2019, 07:41 PM
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Clearly the crispness and blacks will be better, but I am curious whether you found the A9G to handle motion as well as the old Kuro. I think it is still 120hz internal.
I only briefly saw the A9G at Best Buy and there was very little motion on screen.
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post #56 of 56 Old 11-15-2019, 03:37 PM
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I only briefly saw the A9G at Best Buy and there was very little motion on screen.

Thanks. Yes, that is so frustrating with these demos. Always the slow motion and photo type marketing reel nonsense. Throw some real motion into it, and plasma still wins the day. This after more than a decade of waiting for technology to catch up to the past. I am absolutely dreading the day that my Kuro takes a *****e.



I hate the current sample-and-hold and check in on blurbuster regularly to see whether I can finally upgrade my tv.
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