Getting a Pioneer Plasma in 2019 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 36 Old 06-22-2019, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Getting a Pioneer Plasma in 2019

When I initially set up my home theater system I got a brand new LG60PB5600 for $500 as they were discontinuing plasma TVs.

I’ve always been happy with it, but even at the time I knew I would upgrade with a used set as their prices became realistic (I’m not spending >$1500 on a TV, that’s nuts. Sorry, that’s just nuts).

And now the prices are down, and based off of everything I’m reading, somehow, in some way, Pioneer remains on top. Their build quality must be excellent, and I respect that.

Perusing the craigslist/ebay reveals a crop of Plasmas, but it also made clear to me how little I know about anything.

What’s the difference between the different Pioneer models? I’m looking for a 60” 1080p TV to replace my existing one. Speakers are irrelevant as I’ve got a home theater system hooked up.
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post #2 of 36 Old 06-22-2019, 11:59 AM
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https://www.cnet.com/news/down-the-l...-plasma-hdtvs/

Elite PRO-141FD and KRP-600M are the top prizes. 600M not mentioned in the article.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/167-p...ion-pt-ii.html

Elite Kuro PRO-151FD and Kuro PDP-6020FD are also excellent performers.
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post #3 of 36 Old 06-22-2019, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Test Ickles View Post
https://www.cnet.com/news/down-the-l...-plasma-hdtvs/

Elite PRO-141FD and KRP-600M are the top prizes. 600M not mentioned in the article.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/167-p...ion-pt-ii.html

Elite Kuro PRO-151FD and Kuro PDP-6020FD are also excellent performers.
How top prize is a 600M?
Concerns about 8G vs 9g?
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post #4 of 36 Old 06-22-2019, 04:54 PM
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How top prize is a 600M?
Depending on when and where the panels where made is a factor in answering that question. You could get a 141 or a 600M made at the separate factory in late 08'/09'. They had refined the manufacturing process on these panels and these few panels are known as "9.5" Kuro's. Other than this I cannot say one is better than the other.
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Concerns about 8G vs 9g?
Big ones. 9G black levels are 5X better.
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post #5 of 36 Old 06-22-2019, 05:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Depending on when and where the panels where made is a factor in answering that question. You could get a 141 or a 600M made at the separate factory in late 08'/09'. They had refined the manufacturing process on these panels and these few panels are known as "9.5" Kuro's. Other than this I cannot say one is better than the other.

Big ones. 9G black levels are 5X better.

I have the opportunity to get a KRP-600m for $600; Is there a way to tell when/where it was made that the buyer can show me? Is it worth the price + 4 hours of driving to get?
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post #6 of 36 Old 06-22-2019, 05:14 PM
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I have the opportunity to get a KRP-600m for $600; Is there a way to tell when/where it was made that the buyer can show me? Is it worth the price + 4 hours of driving to get?
Build date on the back. Last month made was May or June 09'. They were released on April 1st, 2009 and are very rare. I'm not 100% sure but I believe all the 600M where made at this final factory and are "9.5" Kuro's. If you want want bad enough it's worth it.
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post #7 of 36 Old 06-28-2019, 01:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Build date on the back. Last month made was May or June 09'. They were released on April 1st, 2009 and are very rare. I'm not 100% sure but I believe all the 600M where made at this final factory and are "9.5" Kuro's. If you want want bad enough it's worth it.
Between a Pro-151FD and KRP-600M which is the better prize?
The KRP-600M has 11k hours, and was manufactured 01/09. The Pro-151FD seller claims it has something like 250-300 hours and has been professionally calibrated, but was manufactured in the second half of '08. From what I gather the KRP-600M was the better model new, but having ~10k less hours and a full calibration I think I will go for the Pro-151fd.
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post #8 of 36 Old 06-28-2019, 02:30 AM
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Just please be careful when considering an older plasma tv. Even if it is a Pioneer Elite. The Elite line was the most impressive & by far my favorite screen for at least 15 years. Going back to the RPTVs they had. (BEST RPTV EVER) just saying. Just be careful considering a couple of major cons those TVs will have for you. For one, I know alot of people think that Plasma doesnt have true ‘burn in’, its usually considered as image retention. And its true that not all burn in on plasmas are permanent, some actually are. I know partly because Iv personally dealt with plasmas since the first Panasonic 40” came out for over $20k. And Iv dealt with them ever since.
The other issue with them, especially older/used ones, is you have to make sure that if youre going to watch it during the day, do not have sunlight directly on it, or even just a bright room in general. And lastly, I would only really throw this out there regarding an older plasma, & I dont really consider it a BIG deal, but something to keep in mind for sure. A plasma ‘monitor’ can pretty much never be fixed.. For $600 Im sure thats not a deterrent. I just felt i needed to throw that out there. I TRULY wish Pioneer Elite were still making screens. They were head & shoulders above all others for quite a long time..
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post #9 of 36 Old 06-28-2019, 07:15 AM
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I recently purchased a used Elite PRO-141FD at a good price. However, after getting it home I discovered the picture quality wasn't up to the standards it was so famous for. The main issue with some of the Pioneer plasmas (my model included) is that there is a red tint that develops over time to the blacks. Not really noticeable until content is viewed in the dark but that was the big reason why I wanted a "KURO."

There are numerous things you can try to do to recover the deep true black with varying degrees of success (there is a whole thread dedicated to resetting and tweaking voltages). However, each panel seems to react slightly differently to adjustments. Not to mention that adjustments can cause misfires and a host of other picture quality issues.

Fortunately I was able to work all of my issues out and get my set to a satisfactory picture but it required a lot of research, trail and error.
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post #10 of 36 Old 06-28-2019, 08:05 AM
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All Plasma TVs need heavy tweaking and calibration to be even close to correct white balance, gamma and best picture performance..

The difference between the Panasonics and the Pioneers are that the Pioneers where already factory optimized and tuned to the max, resulting into possible picture problems (red tint) after some time because of almost no margin for tolerance..

Every Pioneer owner who is into calibration will tell you that a non calibrated, resetet, tweaked etc.. Pioneer is far away from what a Pioneer Kuro was/is famous for.. These sets are 10 years old or older, and need that adjustments..

Luckily there is alot of information on the internet and you can turn these Plasma TVs into a sparkling diamond..

2013 Panasonic TX-P42STW60 PDP
2009 Panasonic TX-P42S10E PDP
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post #11 of 36 Old 06-28-2019, 04:03 PM
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All Plasma TVs need heavy tweaking and calibration to be even close to correct white balance, gamma and best picture performance..

The difference between the Panasonics and the Pioneers are that the Pioneers where already factory optimized and tuned to the max, resulting into possible picture problems (red tint) after some time because of almost no margin for tolerance..

Every Pioneer owner who is into calibration will tell you that a non calibrated, resetet, tweaked etc.. Pioneer is far away from what a Pioneer Kuro was/is famous for.. These sets are 10 years old or older, and need that adjustments..

Luckily there is alot of information on the internet and you can turn these Plasma TVs into a sparkling diamond..

The poor picture performance wasn't in reference to proper calibration. Adjusting white balance, gamma, etc. is easy compared to my tweaking experience.

I've had my other Pioneer plasma since 2006 (PDP-4271HD). The picture on it is still nearly flawless and has never needed much adjusting. Which is why I've longed for the legendary KURO series. It's also why I was surprised to see the elevated black level and red tint. I failed to mention the misfires commonly referred to as green sparkles my new plasma exhibited.

I am thankful there is a lot of information on tweaking. It has fixed my issues to an extent. Beware though that every panel seems to respond uniquely due to age so there isn’t a perfect road map. I’d also like to point out that tweaking voltages can also introduce other problems like magenta trails, black rain and image retention.
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post #12 of 36 Old 06-28-2019, 07:19 PM - Thread Starter
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I settled on the Pro-151FD. The previous owner claims it has only 250-300 hours. I won’t believe it until I see it myself, although I do believe it is really low hours, as he had it mounted behind a projector screen.

It has the red tint issue and a louder buzzing than the LG plasma it replaced. I can ] see how the red-tint issue is simultaneously a non-issue and the worst thing in the world.

I just watched Ender’s game. Wow. Like, WOW.

Without exaggerating, it was like watching the movie for the first time. The closer you get to perfection, the more you become fixated on the tiny details. I wish I could get the black level down to 0. The colors are ****ing spectacular. Motion handling is miles better than what I’m used to. This TV is on a different level.

I wish I could get rid of the buzz and red tint. I’m hesitant to touch any of the settings because it will **** with the professional calibration that’s been done.

Last edited by FChicken; 06-28-2019 at 10:30 PM.
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post #13 of 36 Old 06-28-2019, 08:34 PM
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I settled on the Pro-151FD. The previous owner claims it has only 250-300 hours. I won’t believe it until I see it myself, although I do believe it is really low hours, as he had it mounted behind a projector screen.
Let's find out. Start with Kuro Kapture.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/167-p...-programs.html
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post #14 of 36 Old 06-30-2019, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Let's find out. Start with Kuro Kapture.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/167-p...-programs.html
Ordered the cables; We’ll see what secrets this beast harbors.

It needs a firmware update, but I’m afraid of losing my super expensive calibration (either through loss of settings, or through the changed picture).
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post #15 of 36 Old 07-09-2019, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeee Haw

Here's the data. Total hours 116, lots of turning on and off; the guy claimed it was a demo unit. I hope the high counter doesn't affect anything :/. Still I'm thrilled with the low hours on the phosphors.
Code:
0 ECO:  QS3
1 SERIAL:     HHPM007477UC
2 HOUR METER:  01304154
3 TOTAL HR METER:  00000116
4 PON COUNTER:  00003441
5 Panel temperature:  +41.4
6 Reserved (TEMP0 acquisition):  ---.-
7 MAX panel temperature history:  +48.8
8 Reserved:  ****
9 2 Byte:  54
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post #16 of 36 Old 07-09-2019, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Test Ickles View Post
https://www.cnet.com/news/down-the-l...-plasma-hdtvs/

Elite PRO-141FD and KRP-600M are the top prizes. 600M not mentioned in the article.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/167-p...ion-pt-ii.html

Elite Kuro PRO-151FD and Kuro PDP-6020FD are also excellent performers.
Didn't know plasma is still popular. I have a Kuro PDP-5020FD. Was thinking to replace it but will keep it longer.
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post #17 of 36 Old 07-10-2019, 08:47 PM
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Yeee Haw

Here's the data. Total hours 116, lots of turning on and off; the guy claimed it was a demo unit. I hope the high counter doesn't affect anything :/. Still I'm thrilled with the low hours on the phosphors.
Code:
0 ECO:  QS3
1 SERIAL:     HHPM007477UC
2 HOUR METER:  01304154
3 TOTAL HR METER:  00000116
4 PON COUNTER:  00003441
5 Panel temperature:  +41.4
6 Reserved (TEMP0 acquisition):  ---.-
7 MAX panel temperature history:  +48.8
8 Reserved:  ****
9 2 Byte:  54
Nice score! That thing is like brand new
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post #18 of 36 Old 07-10-2019, 08:49 PM
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Didn't know plasma is still popular. I have a Kuro PDP-5020FD. Was thinking to replace it but will keep it longer.
Still better than LCD and gives OLED a run for the money on SDR.
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post #19 of 36 Old 07-11-2019, 08:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Still better than LCD and gives OLED a run for the money on SDR.
This is my motivation. For $600 to compete with $3000 TV’s (It really does) in the only area that matters to me (SDR 1080p Blu-Ray).
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post #20 of 36 Old 07-12-2019, 01:13 PM
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This is my motivation. For $600 to compete with $3000 TV’s (It really does) in the only area that matters to me (SDR 1080p Blu-Ray).
No matter in which country you check the tv threads.. One of the most top threads in the Oled section is about Oled banding and color shifting where one side has a color tint.. Some return it, some try to live with it..

Hold on to your Plasma TV

http://www.hifi-forum.de/index.php?a...read=287&z=111

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post #21 of 36 Old 07-12-2019, 07:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Blllaaaahhh;

I did some work: I upgraded the firmware, saved the settings with KuroCal, opened up the back panel, and tightened every single screw I could find (to get rid of the buzzing).

The good news, the buzzing is now significantly less, the bad news: I think I slightly screwed up my ISF calibration. I'm not sure, but that's the nature of the calibration, I feeeelll like it's not as perfect as it was, especially on skin tones.

Could anything I've done have changed something? KuroCal has different modes: ISF, Auto, and Night. I saved images for all three, but I never pushed send to the TV. It shouldn't have changed anything.

I think the firmware upgrade made the red tint issue slightly less. Maybe KuroCal is stuck on the last setting I used (ISF night)? I will try to switch it to ISF day if that's the case. I assume Auto is for the auto bar?

****.
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post #22 of 36 Old 07-13-2019, 07:42 AM
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Blllaaaahhh;

I did some work: I upgraded the firmware, saved the settings with KuroCal, opened up the back panel, and tightened every single screw I could find (to get rid of the buzzing).

The good news, the buzzing is now significantly less, the bad news: I think I slightly screwed up my ISF calibration. I'm not sure, but that's the nature of the calibration, I feeeelll like it's not as perfect as it was, especially on skin tones.

Could anything I've done have changed something? KuroCal has different modes: ISF, Auto, and Night. I saved images for all three, but I never pushed send to the TV. It shouldn't have changed anything.

I think the firmware upgrade made the red tint issue slightly less. Maybe KuroCal is stuck on the last setting I used (ISF night)? I will try to switch it to ISF day if that's the case. I assume Auto is for the auto bar?

****.
It has red tint after only 118 hrs?
If your interested here's everything you need to start calibrating on your own.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...-software.html
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...libration.html
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...e-your-tv.html
https://www.amazon.com/X-Rite-i1Disp...s%2C222&sr=8-1
And a laptop
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post #23 of 36 Old 07-13-2019, 08:02 AM - Thread Starter
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I don’t want to calibrate it on my own; I want my ISF calibration back. It as amazing.
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I honestly wouldn't mind getting my hands on a Kuro and using it just for viewing Sports because I love the motion handling on these things.
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post #25 of 36 Old 07-13-2019, 07:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Holy merciful God.

My assumption was right; by reading the settings, I switched it from ISF day to ISF night mode (uncalibrated).
I switched it back to ISF day, and my calibration is back.

Holy ****, I thought I'd really screwed up. This TV has been calibrated by apparently one of the best calibrators in the world.

One lesson worth noting: GET YOUR TVs PROPERLY CALIBRATED! THE DIFFERENCE IS BOTH SUBTLE AND HUGE!.

Holy WOW. Do the filmmakers justice.
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post #26 of 36 Old 07-15-2019, 05:38 AM
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Holy merciful God.

My assumption was right; by reading the settings, I switched it from ISF day to ISF night mode (uncalibrated).
I switched it back to ISF day, and my calibration is back.

Holy ****, I thought I'd really screwed up. This TV has been calibrated by apparently one of the best calibrators in the world.

One lesson worth noting: GET YOUR TVs PROPERLY CALIBRATED! THE DIFFERENCE IS BOTH SUBTLE AND HUGE!.

Holy WOW. Do the filmmakers justice.
You are watching your movies in calibrated ISF day mode?
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post #27 of 36 Old 07-15-2019, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
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You are watching your movies in calibrated ISF day mode?
I’m actually unsure.

The TV was ISF calibrated and looked amazing. Then I tried to save the settings before doing a firmware update, and I Think my hooking up kurocal I caused something to change.
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post #28 of 36 Old 07-16-2019, 05:15 AM
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I’m actually unsure.

The TV was ISF calibrated and looked amazing. Then I tried to save the settings before doing a firmware update, and I Think my hooking up kurocal I caused something to change.
Always write settings etc... down on paper...in a notebook or something like that. I was told by a pro that when lightning strikes etc... ISF settings on M could get lost so you need a back up anyway.

When hours are as low as that TV i would be cautious. How do you know it did not have a reset? It seems to me that red tint pop ups after 10,000 hours or more. Maybe he noticed red tint.. did some experimenting, did not work out well and tried to sell it. In general a TV has at least 1,000 hours a year. You should have asked how come it has so few hours on it and payed attention if you could see any signs of lying. btw red tint seems to be for the most part a M problem. There was a AVS red tint poll in which the M scored highest (32%). My M has 12,000 or so hours and no red tint yet.
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post #29 of 36 Old 07-16-2019, 05:54 AM
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I still have my Elite 110FD which is a 8G that is on the wall in my bedroom. I never had it calibrated but had zero issues with it. Still running strong and was considering to replace it. How do I determine how many hours ar eon it?
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post #30 of 36 Old 07-16-2019, 06:34 AM
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I still have my Elite 110FD which is a 8G that is on the wall in my bedroom. I never had it calibrated but had zero issues with it. Still running strong and was considering to replace it. How do I determine how many hours ar eon it?
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