HDMI cables that support 4K@60Hz, 4:4:4 chroma, and Deep Color? - Page 46 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1351 of 2304 Old 01-11-2017, 04:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
AudioQuest are like Monster. The cost is not justifiable. HDMI cables with ethernet means absolutely nothing because there aren't any consumer devices that take advantage of the ethernet channel. It's all marketing b.s. You can get just as good cables for a lot less money.
I have AudioQuest Pearl cables and they eliminated my handshaking issues between my Oppo 203 and my SC-95. Granted they are pricey cables and aren't for everyone, for various reasons.

They are quality cables, at least from my perspective as I have used them. I've had a really hard time finding quality cables that don't create handshaking issues or picture quality degradation.

I have also recently (yesterday, in fact) tried the Amazon basics 15 foot cables. They seem to work as well, and did not create handshaking issues.

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post #1352 of 2304 Old 01-11-2017, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rscultho View Post

I have also recently (yesterday, in fact) tried the Amazon basics 15 foot cables. They seem to work as well, and did not create handshaking issues.
And that's the point. You don't need to pay for over-exaggerated claims, marketing b.s. and high prices to get cables that meet your needs. You may have to go thru a couple of cables to find one that works but there are folks who have gone thru lots of AudioQuest/Monster cables as well.
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post #1353 of 2304 Old 01-11-2017, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
And that's the point. You don't need to pay for over-exaggerated claims, marketing b.s. and high prices to get cables that meet your needs. You may have to go thru a couple of cables to find one that works but there are folks who have gone thru lots of AudioQuest/Monster cables as well.
I understand what you are saying, and your point of view. I don't think you understand mine, but that's ok.

It's your opinion that it's "marketing bs", and what is high priced to you may not be so to me.

Wish you (and everyone) much success with cables and setup/integration.

Sony XBR-75X940C, Pioneer SC-95, Panasonic DMP-UB900, Samsung UHD-K8500, Dish Hopper 3, Western Digital Live with Various video (non 4K stuff, audio)
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post #1354 of 2304 Old 01-11-2017, 10:22 AM
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Ive heard this before with audio/video cables.

I had BlueJeans make me some HDMI and some XLRs and had grounding/jitter issues on both sides. Drank the KoolAid and bought AQ Carbon HDMIs and MacKinzie XLRs and all was gone instantly.

I don't think a single $2500 HDMI or XLR cable is worth it (only place Ive seen em is Magnoila where they get em for free or employees get em for 80% off or whatever), but the AQ solved my problem AFTER I spent $500 on BJC speaker, XLR and HDMI
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post #1355 of 2304 Old 01-11-2017, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rscultho View Post
I understand what you are saying, and your point of view. I don't think you understand mine, but that's ok.

It's your opinion that it's "marketing bs", and what is high priced to you may not be so to me.

Wish you (and everyone) much success with cables and setup/integration.
This proves why "marketing" still survives.
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post #1356 of 2304 Old 01-12-2017, 02:59 PM
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I still haven't forgot about this thread. Just haven't had a chance to test my cables. Will try to test them tonight with my XB1S , Samsung KS9000.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_...gLink2-2917105
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post #1357 of 2304 Old 01-12-2017, 03:14 PM
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Got these in pretty quickly, they are similar in size to the redmeres I used to have that did not work well when I went UHD. They are $20 range, not $5 range, but they accomplish what I wanted.
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post #1358 of 2304 Old 01-12-2017, 04:14 PM
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Ok here it goes...


The following components are part of my setup

Samsung TV UN65KS9000 (Using HDMI Port 2)
Denon AVRX-3000 Receiver
XB1S

(2) Cabernet Ultra CL2 Active High Speed HDMI® Cable, 25ft
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_...gLink2-2917105

The HDMI is connected directly to the TV and audio is output from the TV to the receiver via toslink optical.

So I tried two of the exact same cables and got "different" results. In both tests I used the XB1S 4K tests

The first 3 pictures are the results from Cable 1 and the last 3 are results from Cable 2. They both produced "different" results. Using Cable 1 I was unable to select 8 bit & 12 bit. The cable will only produce a picture if 10 bit was selected.

With Cable 2 I was able to select 8 bit, 10 & 12 with no issue.

So of course I'm going to ask the obvious questions...

1. Is Cable 1 defective?
2. If my TV is only 10-bit capable does it matter that I'm unable to select 8 bit and 12 using Cable 1?
3. If my TV is limited to 10-bit why does XB1S allow me to select 12-bit. BTW the HDMI that comes with it allows me to do the same.
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post #1359 of 2304 Old 01-12-2017, 05:13 PM
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Desisuperman - I suspect part of your 'problem' is your choice of test hardware, I find the XB1S to be very unpredictable and nigh on useless as a tool to test devices connected to it.

Others here on AVS are seeing the same unpredictability as you until they adjust certain settings n the XB1S - do a search for XB1S and HDR.

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post #1360 of 2304 Old 01-12-2017, 08:38 PM
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I think OPPO 203 will be a more proper tool for the test.

Man see things as they are n say why. I dream of things that never were, n say why not ....... A Perfect PROJECTOR
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post #1361 of 2304 Old 01-12-2017, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Got these in pretty quickly, they are similar in size to the redmeres I used to have that did not work well when I went UHD. They are $20 range, not $5 range, but they accomplish what I wanted.
These cables seem to be http://www.scpcat5e.com/hdmi-c-395/h...c-395_114_408/ which may be these Mediabridge FLEX Series HDMI Cable (10 Feet) - High-Speed Supports 4K, Ethernet, 3D and Audio Return [Newest Standard] - (Part# MPC-HDMI34-10 ) It is being reported in the Oppo UHD-203 thread that they are working at [email protected] 4:4:4 2160p, Full 18Gbps performance.

I would still wait until Dave Vaughn Sound and Vision checks them.
One poster suggested that the Mediabridge Ultra series my be more reliable. https://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-U...-HDMI34-10+%29

Anál nathrach, orth’ bháis’s bethad, do chél dénmha
Display: LG OLED 65e6p, Player: OPPO UDP-203, AVR:Yamaha TSR 7810, Streaming: Comcast 60Mbps RG6 to Cat6a, Speakers: Mains Vandersteen IIC, Center, Surrounds, Rears Klipsch

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post #1362 of 2304 Old 01-12-2017, 10:21 PM
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anyone know if the roku ultra outputs it's main menu at 18gbps like the sammy uhd player does? If it does, my new Blue Jeans Cable at 35 feet is able to lock on.
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post #1363 of 2304 Old 01-12-2017, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Postmoderndesign View Post
These cables seem to be http://www.scpcat5e.com/hdmi-c-395/h...c-395_114_408/ which may be these Mediabridge FLEX Series HDMI Cable (10 Feet) - High-Speed Supports 4K, Ethernet, 3D and Audio Return [Newest Standard] - (Part# MPC-HDMI34-10 ) It is being reported in the Oppo UHD-203 thread that they are working at [email protected] 4:4:4 2160p, Full 18Gbps performance.

I would still wait until Dave Vaughn Sound and Vision checks them.
One poster suggested that the Mediabridge Ultra series my be more reliable. https://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-U...-HDMI34-10+%29
have you guys tried the monoprice hdmi cords that are certified up to 20 feet? I've had no issues with anything less than 10 feet in my current experience and there's a sale going on them right now.
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post #1364 of 2304 Old 01-13-2017, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Postmoderndesign View Post
These cables seem to be http://www.scpcat5e.com/hdmi-c-395/h...c-395_114_408/ which may be these Mediabridge FLEX Series HDMI Cable (10 Feet) - High-Speed Supports 4K, Ethernet, 3D and Audio Return [Newest Standard] - (Part# MPC-HDMI34-10 ) It is being reported in the Oppo UHD-203 thread that they are working at [email protected] 4:4:4 2160p, Full 18Gbps performance.

I would still wait until Dave Vaughn Sound and Vision checks them.
One poster suggested that the Mediabridge Ultra series my be more reliable. https://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-U...-HDMI34-10+%29

Im the one that posted the info in the other thread.

  1. These SCP have nothing to do with Mediabridge
  2. The SCp also have the "locking ends" for snug fit
  3. The Mediabridge do NOT have the premium certification, the SCP do.

I do not need Dave Vaughn to test them, that is what the premium certification program is for. And yes, they work with Ultra HD Blu-ray on the 203 and my Roku Ultra, going thru a Marantz 7702II to a LG OLED.
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post #1365 of 2304 Old 01-13-2017, 06:18 AM
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have you guys tried the monoprice hdmi cords that are certified up to 20 feet? I've had no issues with anything less than 10 feet in my current experience and there's a sale going on them right now.
I have them (the premium certified model) and they work fine, just too stiff for what I was doing.

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post #1366 of 2304 Old 01-13-2017, 07:40 AM
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Any suggestions on reliable testing methods?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Fernand View Post
Desisuperman - I suspect part of your 'problem' is your choice of test hardware, I find the XB1S to be very unpredictable and nigh on useless as a tool to test devices connected to it.

Others here on AVS are seeing the same unpredictability as you until they adjust certain settings n the XB1S - do a search for XB1S and HDR.

Joe


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post #1367 of 2304 Old 01-13-2017, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Im the one that posted the info in the other thread.

  1. These SCP have nothing to do with Mediabridge
  2. The SCp also have the "locking ends" for snug fit
  3. The Mediabridge do NOT have the premium certification, the SCP do.

I do not need Dave Vaughn to test them, that is what the premium certification program is for. And yes, they work with Ultra HD Blu-ray on the 203 and my Roku Ultra, going thru a Marantz 7702II to a LG OLED.
I agree and that is why I put a caution at the end of my post on the Mediabridge cables.

I was using the internet to try to find a readily available source for the SCP cables. I could not establish that the Mediabridge cables have tight fit ends. A lighter long more flexible HDMI copper cable that works at 18 gbs would be great. But the Mediabridge cables may not be the cables.

Anál nathrach, orth’ bháis’s bethad, do chél dénmha
Display: LG OLED 65e6p, Player: OPPO UDP-203, AVR:Yamaha TSR 7810, Streaming: Comcast 60Mbps RG6 to Cat6a, Speakers: Mains Vandersteen IIC, Center, Surrounds, Rears Klipsch
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post #1368 of 2304 Old 01-13-2017, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
I have them (the premium certified model) and they work fine, just too stiff for what I was doing.

Part of the reason that these cables can be certified by HDMI Licensing (ATC, Premium High Speed HDMI) is the wire gauge, which can be a drawback depending on how tight your setup is. That's why some cable mfrs' are adding the locking connectors, which I don't think is a bad idea for any cable. 25' was the maximum certifiable distance by ATC's for HDMI 1.4 and it appears, at least so far, that 25' will be the distance for the newer video standards, unless one wants to go fiber. Keep in mind that there are other certification programs available so the certification process is far from standardized. That's the idea of the ATC's, but not all cable mfrs have bought into the HDMI Licensing program, so one needs to be careful when purchasing a cable that is "certified". Unfortunately, even certification by an ATC is not 100% guaranteed to work for everyone because of hardware, setup, and distances.
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post #1369 of 2304 Old 01-13-2017, 10:24 AM
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Agree, but since I have focused on the that label in my post, I have not had any issues at less than 10 feet (all I need). I like the SCP cables because they are thin, flexible, passive, and "lock" in.
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post #1370 of 2304 Old 01-13-2017, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Agree, but since I have focused on the that label in my post, I have not had any issues at less than 10 feet (all I need). I like the SCP cables because they are thin, flexible, passive, and "lock" in.
That's good. But most of the issues have been at lengths much longer than 10'. I too use only ATC certified cables, and have so since HDMI 1.4, so I feel very comfortable with them and they have always performed well (my runs are 10' or under). However, I haven't made the jump to 4k yet (still a little too unsettled for me) but when I do, I will look for the ATC label. At 10', as you have seen, even passive cables work well. I do like the "lock" in feature that some mfrs are starting to use. Just makes sense to me.
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post #1371 of 2304 Old 01-13-2017, 04:36 PM
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I understand what you are saying, and your point of view. I don't think you understand mine, but that's ok.

It's your opinion that it's "marketing bs", and what is high priced to you may not be so to me.

Wish you (and everyone) much success with cables and setup/integration.
I'll agree that pricing is subjective, but sorry, most of the bullet points on cables are "marketing BS". All that marketing BS has been tested in labs over and over for like the past 50 yrs. Cables aren't rocket science. AudioQuest is one of the biggest BSers out there:

"Solid conductors eliminate strand-interaction distortion. Pearl’s solid Long-Grain Copper allows a smoother and clearer sound than cables using regular OFHC (Oxygen-Free High-Conductivity) copper. OFHC is a general metal industry specification regarding “loss” without any concern for distortion. LGC has fewer oxides within the conducting material, less impurities, less grain boundaries, and definitively better performance."

Complete and total nonsense and completely impossible. If your source device is sending 101101, the destination device will get 101101 in the digital realm or nothing at all. END OF STORY. The cable can't make the 1's or 0's any different.

Besides, in your own post, you say you also tried the cheap Amazon basics and they performed identical . That should tell you the AQ cables did nothing.

The only feature AQ does have that is legit is thier 100% all natural, omni-directional, wallet lightener.
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post #1372 of 2304 Old 01-13-2017, 07:41 PM
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I'll agree that pricing is subjective, but sorry, most of the bullet points on cables are "marketing BS". All that marketing BS has been tested in labs over and over for like the past 50 yrs. Cables aren't rocket science. AudioQuest is one of the biggest BSers out there:

"Solid conductors eliminate strand-interaction distortion. Pearl’s solid Long-Grain Copper allows a smoother and clearer sound than cables using regular OFHC (Oxygen-Free High-Conductivity) copper. OFHC is a general metal industry specification regarding “loss” without any concern for distortion. LGC has fewer oxides within the conducting material, less impurities, less grain boundaries, and definitively better performance."

Complete and total nonsense and completely impossible. If your source device is sending 101101, the destination device will get 101101 in the digital realm or nothing at all. END OF STORY. The cable can't make the 1's or 0's any different.

Besides, in your own post, you say you also tried the cheap Amazon basics and they performed identical . That should tell you the AQ cables did nothing.

The only feature AQ does have that is legit is thier 100% all natural, omni-directional, wallet lightener.
What you just described is generally not true. In the absence of a bit error rate, it is true. If there is a bit error rate present, which there is in all transmission line systems, and the error cannot be corrected with the parity bits, ecc bits, or what have you, then the device will not get 101101. It will get one, two, or often several bits interpreted as 1's that should be zeros and 0's that should be 1's. A good transmission line will reduce the bit error rate, a bad one will increase it. The receiving end typically will know if it received a word in error and will either play that word in error, interpolate, or mute the audio until the next error free word arrives. Or it may initiate a link reset especially if the error rate gets too high. Same goes for video. This is an oversimplified representation of basic digital transmission, and doesn't address whether the HMDI protocol has error correction that is so advanced that it will correct all bit error conditions that may be present if it can, and if not will reset/retrain the link (in which case if the link is up then any cable that does not experience resets will retain no errors in the corrected data bits received, at which point your argument would hold).
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post #1373 of 2304 Old 01-13-2017, 09:12 PM
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Ok, spoke a little too soon. I tried playing a UHD movie through the Xbox One S and the 15'->Blackbird repeater->15' will not provide an image (and it also causes my second 4k monitor with only a 15' cable to black out as well).

Sigh.
It's frustrating. I am thinking I got the best I was going to get on my second try with the Monoprice Luxe 30ft cable. It reliably passes up to 4K60 4:2:0. I am not even sure why I need anything better at this point - it's been more of a game to just try and get what these cables are supposed to carry across that length. But, I have no problem getting the most out of UHD with the Luxe cable and I don't know what I'd be missing on the gaming side - the PS4 Pro only can't pass 4K60 RGB through the 30ft Luxe. 4K60 YUV works fine with the auto color space/depth the Pro is putting out. And I have no problem using the 4K capabilities of the XBOX One.

The 25 ft PlugLug cable that was sold on Amazon could pass everything - too bad I needed 30ft (unless I draped the cable across my room instead of running it through the ceiling).

The Blackbird repeater was a bust for me with wildly varying results. The 10ft certified Monoprice cable -> Blackbird repeater -> 20ft certified Monoprice cable combination didn't work. When I reversed it and went 20ft cable -> Blackbird repeater -> 10ft cable, it did actually work with the Oppo 203 sending 4K60 4:4:4 as long as I bypassed my receiver. Adding another 6ft of cable and going through the receiver kills it. Oddly enough, going 10ft certified cable -> Blackbird repeater -> 20ft certified cable couldn't even compete with the 30ft Luxe - I couldn't get 4K60 4:2:0 to make it with that config.

And I'm not sure whether the receiver (the Yamaha Aventage 3050) is knocking down the HDMI signal strength or if it's just that extra 6 ft between the Oppo 203/PS4 that is causing it to fail. I could've swore I did have it working once with the PlugLug cables and the Blackbird with the receiver in the mix - I was convinced enough to run it through the ceiling only to never get it to work again.

Since I don't plan on hooking up a PC anyway, I'll probably just give up. Part of me wants to "win", but Monoprice has to be getting tired of all of these RMAs.... They recommended trying the Carbernet, but given everything I've read in this thread, this is all just luck of the draw at this point. I may just consider myself lucky that the Luxe is working as well as it is. Plus, I spent about 5-6 hours messing with this last weekend and I'm about over it.
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post #1374 of 2304 Old 01-14-2017, 09:23 AM
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Yeah it is frustrating. Have you tried bypassing the receiver and going directly to the TV from source? I'm assuming you have I just don't want to read pages and pages of history. This is already taking up more time out of my personal life then it should lol

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Quote:
Originally Posted by martinm0 View Post
Ok, spoke a little too soon. I tried playing a UHD movie through the Xbox One S and the 15'->Blackbird repeater->15' will not provide an image (and it also causes my second 4k monitor with only a 15' cable to black out as well).

Sigh.
It's frustrating. I am thinking I got the best I was going to get on my second try with the Monoprice Luxe 30ft cable. It reliably passes up to 4K60 4:2:0. I am not even sure why I need anything better at this point - it's been more of a game to just try and get what these cables are supposed to carry across that length. But, I have no problem getting the most out of UHD with the Luxe cable and I don't know what I'd be missing on the gaming side - the PS4 Pro only can't pass 4K60 RGB through the 30ft Luxe. 4K60 YUV works fine with the auto color space/depth the Pro is putting out. And I have no problem using the 4K capabilities of the XBOX One.

The 25 ft PlugLug cable that was sold on Amazon could pass everything - too bad I needed 30ft (unless I draped the cable across my room instead of running it through the ceiling).

The Blackbird repeater was a bust for me with wildly varying results. The 10ft certified Monoprice cable -> Blackbird repeater -> 20ft certified Monoprice cable combination didn't work. When I reversed it and went 20ft cable -> Blackbird repeater -> 10ft cable, it did actually work with the Oppo 203 sending 4K60 4:4:4 as long as I bypassed my receiver. Adding another 6ft of cable and going through the receiver kills it. Oddly enough, going 10ft certified cable -> Blackbird repeater -> 20ft certified cable couldn't even compete with the 30ft Luxe - I couldn't get 4K60 4:2:0 to make it with that config.

And I'm not sure whether the receiver (the Yamaha Aventage 3050) is knocking down the HDMI signal strength or if it's just that extra 6 ft between the Oppo 203/PS4 that is causing it to fail. I could've swore I did have it working once with the PlugLug cables and the Blackbird with the receiver in the mix - I was convinced enough to run it through the ceiling only to never get it to work again.

Since I don't plan on hooking up a PC anyway, I'll probably just give up. Part of me wants to "win", but Monoprice has to be getting tired of all of these RMAs.... They recommended trying the Carbernet, but given everything I've read in this thread, this is all just luck of the draw at this point. I may just consider myself lucky that the Luxe is working as well as it is. Plus, I spent about 5-6 hours messing with this last weekend and I'm about over it.
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post #1375 of 2304 Old 01-14-2017, 10:49 AM
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What about trying a fiber optic cable (Celerity)?
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post #1376 of 2304 Old 01-14-2017, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Desisuperman View Post
Yeah it is frustrating. Have you tried bypassing the receiver and going directly to the TV from source? I'm assuming you have I just don't want to read pages and pages of history. This is already taking up more time out of my personal life then it should lol
I did. It would work sometimes with the two-shorter-cables-bridged-by-a-repeater combo. Anything beyond 4K60 4:2:0 would never work with just the single 30ft Luxe Monoprice cable whether I plug it directly into the source or go through the receiver. When trying to use the repeater between two cables, the longer cable had to be the "input" cable. I got terrible results if I fed it the shorter of the two cables first. Maybe 15' -> repeater -> 15' would've worked? I'll never know.
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post #1377 of 2304 Old 01-14-2017, 03:08 PM
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I posted a couple celerity cables for sale in the classifieds under accessories if anyone is looking for one. 40 and 60'. I personally use a 40' one and it's been solid.
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post #1378 of 2304 Old 01-15-2017, 07:06 AM
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What about trying a fiber optic cable (Celerity)?
We are using a Quantum Data 780E fro testing purposes. We are in the process of testing multiple cables that people claim works, and we have found otherwise. The Celerity 60 footer has some quirky communications while testing. We have not given it the actual video test yet, but as a simple loop-thru, we are seeing inconsistent results. Also, 100% of the time, the CEC has failed.
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post #1379 of 2304 Old 01-15-2017, 10:20 AM
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We are using a Quantum Data 780E fro testing purposes. We are in the process of testing multiple cables that people claim works, and we have found otherwise. The Celerity 60 footer has some quirky communications while testing. We have not given it the actual video test yet, but as a simple loop-thru, we are seeing inconsistent results. Also, 100% of the time, the CEC has failed.
Ah. Good to know. Maybe 60' is even too long for fiber.
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post #1380 of 2304 Old 01-15-2017, 10:22 AM
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I don't think it's a fiber related issue. Somewhere, the fiber still needs to be converted back to copper for the HDMi connection. I'm not sold on the endpoints. The fiber is only as good as the endpoints. I have a video showing the test. I will post a link later.
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