HDMI cables that support 4K@60Hz, 4:4:4 chroma, and Deep Color? - Page 49 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1441 of 2304 Old 01-26-2017, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
There really isn't such a thing as "the best cable out there' because that implies that it will work for everyone regardless of the devices, setup ,etc. All you can do is try. It may work well for you, just don't get your expectations too high.
Oh, my expectations aren't even close to high anymore. I'm just trying to weed out those cables that have already been proven not to work. It sounds like the BJC S1 past 25 ft. is uncharted water but may work, so I will give them a try.

In the meantime, Celerity has asked to see my cable from eBay, so that may not be a complete dead-end yet. I appreciate everyone's help here, especially yours!
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post #1442 of 2304 Old 01-26-2017, 02:06 PM
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Here is my conversation with a Celerity support agent the other day:

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Greetings,

I recently purchased one of your products from a reseller on Amazon.com. It is the 50 foot variety of your "Detachable FIber Optic Cable". I purchased this cable because I had recently purchased and Playstation 4 Pro and discovered, at my distance (40-50 feet), there were no viable options for passing through 4K/60Hz/4:4:4 Chroma.

As I was very excited to try out this product, you can imagine my disappointment when I was able to achieve a signal (something I could not do before) but there were inconsistencies with the output quality. Notably, there are some flashes of large bands of white pixels that will momentarily fill up the screen. This is not a common occurrence but does happen about once an hour. More of a nuisance is a "sparkling" pixel effect which is almost constant. Its is very apparent when the screen is pitch black. Here it looks a small subset of the pixels randomly flash white for an instant. It happens all around the screen and is very consistent. Like I said, Its almost unnoticeable when the screen is full of colors, but is very apparent on solid color screens.
I wanted to ask if this is a common complaint you have been asked about or do I possible have a faulty cable. I've read, on certain message boards, that this is evident of a inadequate HDMI signal. I would love a response and hopefully a solution to the problem I am experiencing. Below is my setup:

Multiple Sources (all experiencing the problem) > Pioneer SC-95 AVR > Celerity 50 ft Fiber Optic > LG OLED 65C6P Television).

Thanks. Please let me know if you need more information.

Regards,
Jeremy Caldwell

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Hi Jeremy,
Sorry about the what happened in your setup there. Is it possible to try out a DVD player as source without AVR in the path?

Thanks
Xiaolin


Quote:
Yes. I will give that a try. For what its worth, I suspect the AVR is contributing to the problem but I expected your cable to fix it. I'll respon back once I've tested.


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Hi Jeremy,
If the source to AVR using copper cable and AVR to TV using fiber cable, it might have video issues. So we like to try the source to sink directly using fiber cable.

Thanks
Xiaolin

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post #1443 of 2304 Old 01-26-2017, 02:08 PM
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Update on some more testing. I discovered that the sparkles on the PS4 Pro are there even if I plug the BJC Series-1 directly into the TV. So that revises some of the earlier results and I've also tested three new cables. They're very difficult to see at distance and only appear on the darkened screen that you get after a 5 minute timeout. When the PS4 Pro is active the picture is perfect (for the cables that work).

25 ft BJC Series-1 connected to RiteAV Female-Female Connector. Second cable connected from RiteAV to LG OLED65C6P HDMI IN-2. Source PS4 Pro 2160p60 RGB 444 via a Yamaha RX-A1060 Receiver.

Belden FE Series 4ft ($20) FAIL
Audioquest Chocolate 6ft ($150) FAIL

Monoprice Certified Premium 3ft ($4) PASS
Monoprice Certified Premium 6ft ($5) PASS
RocketFish 4ft ($24) PASS
Monster Black Platinum 5ft ($60) PASS

Hilarious that a $150 Audioquest cable was outperformed by a $5 Monoprice cable. Just goes to show how little substance there is to some of these high priced brands.

At this point I'm going to go with the Monster cable as it seems the beefiest, has the most positive locking and grip at the connector (some of the others feel quite loose e.g. Monoprice) and is the right length (I need at least 4ft but I'll go with 5ft. That and unlike the others I had to destroy the packaging to open it, so don't feel comfortable returning it :-).

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post #1444 of 2304 Old 01-26-2017, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigAmey View Post


Hilarious that a $150 Audioquest cable was outperformed by a $5 Monoprice cable. Just goes to show how little substance there is to some of these high priced brands.
That's exactly the point we've been making for years is that companies like AudioQuest and Monster usually don't perform any better than a cable that costs much less. Their cables may have excellent characteristics when checked out on a scope but the human eyes and ears can only see and hear so much so once you start listing those really cool scope specs, it's really meaningless (much like gold connectors, nitrogen/oxygen free copper, etc). But what you're paying for is very slick marketing/packaging etc. If one has exhausted all the other cables and they don't work, then certainly check out the overpriced brands because they may work for no other reason than you just happen to get a particular cable that works for you.
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post #1445 of 2304 Old 01-26-2017, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul Arnette View Post

In the meantime, Celerity has asked to see my cable from eBay, so that may not be a complete dead-end yet. I appreciate everyone's help here, especially yours!

Hmmm, if Celerity wants to see the cable, maybe they'll replace it free with a newer one Would certainly be good p.r. on their part.
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post #1446 of 2304 Old 01-26-2017, 04:15 PM
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That's exactly the point we've been making for years is that companies like AudioQuest and Monster usually don't perform any better than a cable that costs much less.
I'm familiar with the concept of overkill, i.e. selling someone a $500 1 ft composite video cable but the expectation was that the overpriced cables should perform at least as well as the cheaper versions and that was not the case here.

I'm actually not much of a fan of Monster products in general but the Black Platinum looks like a well made cable and they publish their testing results up to 27Gb/s. That of course is overkill since nothing goes that high but it's nice to know the cable could handle it if needed.

Audioquest on the other hand is an absolute disgrace. They're basically packaging cheap rubbish and giving it fancy names and selling it for top dollar. I don't know what to say about Belden. Their Series-1 is awesome and their FE Series is a miserable failure so apparently even within one company you can't generalize across the product range.

As an aside the only other Monster product I own is a Power Conditioner. Very nice unit and well made with 10 outlets on the back (I basically use it as an elegant power strip). It was dead on arrival with the electronic switching board completely dead.

When I investigated I found the power supply to the board consisted of two signal diodes forming a half wave rectifier. Both were dead, unsurprisingly since they're not nearly big enough to handle power supply current. I replaced them with some larger power diodes and it's been working great ever since.

I can't believe they designed it that way but it's a common issue with the model, so someone screwed up big-time somewhere.

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post #1447 of 2304 Old 01-27-2017, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by BrandonJF View Post
I had tried the BB between a 10' MP Certified cable and a 20' MP certified cable and it wouldn't work. I tried it going straight from the source and after the AVR. The downside with testing shorter cable lengths is that I can't really return them without paying return shipping (which ends up being almost as much as the cost of the cables) since the shorter cables would work fine on their own. I have no problem trying/returning the longer cables since they claim they should work - not sure why they still make that claim since we have yet to hear of someone having success. Are there really that few people trying to pull this off?

It may be that there are some Blackbirds with issues, too, although I'd hope that is unlikely.

I'm going to end up with credit with Monoprice, so the only thing I have left to try is the 15' MP Certified -> Blackbird -> 15' MP Certified and hope that the 20' length is what killed it before. I'm not very optimistic, though.
It's amazing how different everyone's experience is.

Right now I have 6' connecting all my components to my Denon (PS4 Pro, Samsung UHD, regular stuff) and a 15' -> Blackbird -> 15' to my JVC. All Monoprice certified cables.

Seems to be working very well. 4k 60p RGB and YUV from the PS4P is fine. Menus and 4k HDR (Revenant for example) from the Samsung player are fine.

It does take a few seconds to sync. The worst thing is that occasionally when switching back to 1080i (Dish Hopper for example), my JVC loses sync and just displays static. Switching inputs away and back fixes it up.

I can live with that minor issue. I'm about ready to commit to these cables and get them in wall.

YMMV
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post #1448 of 2304 Old 01-27-2017, 09:59 AM
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I'm going to end up with credit with Monoprice, so the only thing I have left to try is the 15' MP Certified -> Blackbird -> 15' MP Certified and hope that the 20' length is what killed it before. I'm not very optimistic, though.
Not the cheapest solution but I'm successfully running 30ft now using

(a) 25ft BJC Series 1 from Receiver to RiteAV Female-Female HDMI. ($87)
(b) 5ft Monster Black Platinum from RiteAV to TV. ($60)

To be fair it also works with a 6ft Certified Premium cable from Monoprice ($5) but I decided to stick with the Monster cable just to be safe (and because CP cables don't come in 4ft or 5ft lengths).

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post #1449 of 2304 Old 01-27-2017, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigAmey View Post
Not the cheapest solution but I'm successfully running 30ft now using

(a) 25ft BJC Series 1 from Receiver to RiteAV Female-Female HDMI. ($87)
(b) 5ft Monster Black Platinum from RiteAV to TV. ($60)

To be fair it also works with a 6ft Certified Premium cable from Monoprice ($5) but I decided to stick with the Monster cable just to be safe (and because CP cables don't come in 4ft or 5ft lengths).
Have you tried the BJC Series 1 at a longer distance? I need 35 ft., and I'm just wondering why you feel the need to go the RiteAv route unless you tried a longer run and it failed, or you couldn't get the 35 ft. cable installed due to flexibility?
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post #1450 of 2304 Old 01-27-2017, 02:17 PM
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Have you tried the BJC Series 1 at a longer distance? I need 35 ft., and I'm just wondering why you feel the need to go the RiteAv route unless you tried a longer run and it failed, or you couldn't get the 35 ft. cable installed due to flexibility?
No, I only really need 25ft. My plan was to run through the wall directly to the TV if necessary so I bought the shortest version that could do that. I already run through the wall (a brush plate) at the receiver end but for the TV end my preference was to have another cable going to a wall-plate if possible as that section is more visible and I wanted to keep it neat. Also the Series-1 is a huge cable and I'd be concerned about damaging the connector with the weight if I plugged it directly into the TV.

Having said that if 25ft + connector + 6ft works then I'd be optimistic that a single 35ft Series-1 would also work.

For the longer run I've tested the following so far.

BJC Series-1 25ft PASS
Monoprice Certified Premium 20ft FAIL (Very occassional white flashes)
Monoprice Cabernet 35ft FAIL (No picture)
FusionHD 30ft FAIL (Constant white flashing)

I just ordered a 35ft Monster Black Platinum so I'll update if that works when it arrives. I hope others find this testing useful. It seems like I have a very good environment for testing as I'm right on the edge of it working so it's very easy to tell which cables cut the mustard and which don't :-)
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post #1451 of 2304 Old 01-27-2017, 02:22 PM
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I can live with that minor issue. I'm about ready to commit to these cables and get them in wall.
For in-wall installations the mantra is conduit conduit conduit. If you don't, you will regret it later. 1.5" - 2.0" conduit.
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post #1452 of 2304 Old 01-27-2017, 10:27 PM
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For in-wall installations the mantra is conduit conduit conduit. If you don't, you will regret it later. 1.5" - 2.0" conduit.
If only I could go back in time and talk to the people who built the house...
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post #1453 of 2304 Old 01-28-2017, 10:00 AM
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If only I could go back in time and talk to the people who built the house...
Conduit can be installed on inside walls by an experienced electrician without opening the walls other than for the outlet box. We did just that in two rooms. The cable is open to the attic space but that can easily and neatly be laid in place. However, it is a bit more challenging if you have a two-story.
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post #1454 of 2304 Old 01-28-2017, 10:27 AM
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Conduit can be installed on inside walls by an experienced electrician without opening the walls other than for the outlet box. We did just that in two rooms. The cable is open to the attic space but that can easily and neatly be laid in place. However, it is a bit more challenging if you have a two-story.
One story house, but exterior wall with some electrical running horizontally. It took hours to get my original HDMI cables fished through. I'm hopeful that I can use my existing cables to pull the new cables through.
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post #1455 of 2304 Old 01-28-2017, 10:43 AM
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One story house, but exterior wall with some electrical running horizontally. It took hours to get my original HDMI cables fished through. I'm hopeful that I can use my existing cables to pull the new cables through.
Depending on how much space you have to navigate, I'd suggest trying to pull an additional cable like a solid core CAT-6(a) cable (non-CCS and NOT a CAT-6 ethernet patch cable) as well. As the video standards continue to change, the connection technology is lagging further and further behind so you will be changing cables again, probably sooner than later. If you can successfully get the CAT-6 cable thru, just leave a big enough service loop at both ends (you can probably curl up enough inside the utility box, that's what I did) so that you can easily terminate the ends to something like HDBT or some other form of active termination when the time comes. That is really the only way to "future proof" your cabling. Good luck.
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post #1456 of 2304 Old 01-28-2017, 11:45 AM
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Just UGH!! I have the Epson 5040, Oppo 203 and the Marantz 7702mkii. I have no choice but to run an approx. 30 foot cable due to my room layout. I have been using PJ's for 20 years. My first was a Sharpvision LCD hah. Anyway my current set up has been nothing but problems due to my HDMI run. I have used Cat cable with Key Digital, Audioquest HDMI's and Celerity fiber optic cables. My last cable was a Monoprice active HDMI.

With my new set up I just keep loosing the signal on everything, Optimum box, Oppo, Xbox, PS4. I finally tried the Celerity 35 foot fiber optic cable. It worked for a solid week with everything including 4K movies. I ran it through my ceiling, worked great for 3 weeks. Last night I put on Da vinci Code 4K, the signal kept dropping out. 20-30 times during the entire movie. Than I tried TV watching, same thing.

How can it work for almost a month and now problems. Maybe I turned it on in a different order...I am going to do more troubleshooting later on tonight. I have about had it. I hate to say that this might be it for me. Looking at the biggest TV's money can by right now. I hate to give my PJ hobby but I have about had it.

I purchased the wireless Epson, the UBE. I can't even get that to work. With the PJ and receiver only 8 feet apart, it will just drop out the signal. No idea why. It will not even recognize my cable box. It says no signal but transmitter located. It will run Oppo, Xbox, PS4 (with some drop outs) but will not bring up a picture using the wireless. I am just ready to throw in the towel, just UGH...

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post #1457 of 2304 Old 01-28-2017, 11:55 AM
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Using the Celerity 35 foot fiber optic I have the usb plugged into the usb on the Epson PJ but not on the Marantz 7702 end because there is no usb on the rear of the Marantz. Can I use a usb off of say the OPPO, or what other options? Will it make a difference to have both of the usb ends plugged in?

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post #1458 of 2304 Old 01-28-2017, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by brianlvi3 View Post
Just UGH!! I have the Epson 5040, Oppo 203 and the Marantz 7702mkii. I have no choice but to run an approx. 30 foot cable due to my room layout. I have been using PJ's for 20 years. My first was a Sharpvision LCD hah. Anyway my current set up has been nothing but problems due to my HDMI run. I have used Cat cable with Key Digital, Audioquest HDMI's and Celerity fiber optic cables. My last cable was a Monoprice active HDMI.

With my new set up I just keep loosing the signal on everything, Optimum box, Oppo, Xbox, PS4. I finally tried the Celerity 35 foot fiber optic cable. It worked for a solid week with everything including 4K movies. I ran it through my ceiling, worked great for 3 weeks. Last night I put on Da vinci Code 4K, the signal kept dropping out. 20-30 times during the entire movie. Than I tried TV watching, same thing.

How can it work for almost a month and now problems. Maybe I turned it on in a different order...I am going to do more troubleshooting later on tonight. I have about had it. I hate to say that this might be it for me. Looking at the biggest TV's money can by right now. I hate to give my PJ hobby but I have about had it.

I purchased the wireless Epson, the UBE. I can't even get that to work. With the PJ and receiver only 8 feet apart, it will just drop out the signal. No idea why. It will not even recognize my cable box. It says no signal but transmitter located. It will run Oppo, Xbox, PS4 (with some drop outs) but will not bring up a picture using the wireless. I am just ready to throw in the towel, just UGH...
How is it when you watch regular 1080P? I only ask because unlike you I have never owned a projector and soon my room will be done but after reading all this it looks like I may just get a big Tv instead for awhile or if I decide to go Projector I will stick with 1080P only. Don't want to jump through hoops just to be disappointed. and frankly most of this very confusing, being a projector newbie is bad enough. I will need a 35ft. cable.
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post #1459 of 2304 Old 01-29-2017, 08:51 AM
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How is it when you watch regular 1080P? I only ask because unlike you I have never owned a projector and soon my room will be done but after reading all this it looks like I may just get a big Tv instead for awhile or if I decide to go Projector I will stick with 1080P only. Don't want to jump through hoops just to be disappointed. and frankly most of this very confusing, being a projector newbie is bad enough. I will need a 35ft. cable.
I am playing with the settings still but even with regular TV watching, I have the drop outs.

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post #1460 of 2304 Old 01-29-2017, 09:23 AM
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Good news! My 35 ft. BJC Series-1 Belden Bonded-Pair HDMI Cable arrived last night, and I ran it in between my Marantz SR7010 and LG OLED65E6P and was able to get a menu on the Oppo UDP-203 with Custom Resolution set to UHD Auto and UHD 60Hz and Color Space set to YCbCr 4:4:4!

Next Issue:

As some have pointed out, the BJC Series-1 Belden Bonded-Pair HDMI Cable is a "fire hose" or extremely thick and heavy cable. I can see why there are some concerns hooking it directly to my sources has it has a tendency to pull or weigh down the HDMI connectors. I'd like to avoid adding anything else into the connection chain. Is there a way to reduce this stress and not add any other adapters and cables?
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post #1461 of 2304 Old 01-29-2017, 09:44 AM
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^^^^^ that is the main concern about thick gauge wires. They will work but at a price. That price being loss of flexibility and increased strain on the input. Depending on how much space you have behind your equipment, as straight of a connection as possible will help or you could jerry-rig some sort of support for the cable with zip ties.
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post #1462 of 2304 Old 01-29-2017, 10:37 AM
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...or you could jerry-rig some sort of support for the cable with zip ties.
Yes, this is what I was thinking. I wasn't sure if anyone here had an experience doing this and could help give me some ideas.

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How is your HTS setup?
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post #1464 of 2304 Old 01-29-2017, 12:01 PM
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Hilarious that a $150 Audioquest cable was outperformed by a $5 Monoprice cable. Just goes to show how little substance there is to some of these high priced brands..
Yea, it's funny... I have been troubleshooting a HDR issue (that the system is about 18' away), a $60 cable is spotty but, a 25' ebay from china that was claimed shielded with a braid on the outside that I scored for $12, passes it fine with no issues. I also have a spare if I need it (I picked up 2 at the time years ago)

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Otto Pylot this is my setup. Currently, I am just testing the BJC cable by plugging it directly into my AVR (second picture) and running it around to the display (fourth picture). But I can run it under the floor from the bottom of the rack (first picture) to the wall behind the display (fifth picture).
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post #1466 of 2304 Old 01-29-2017, 01:08 PM
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Hmmm, could you put the receiver on the bottom shelf and then maybe design some sort of support underneath the cable so that it connects in a straight line to the input. Maybe something like a small "L" bracket that is attached to the wall and the cable rests on the long portion of the bracket or is zip-tied to it.

I just noticed that the cable connects sideways to the tv. I have a side HDMI 3 input on my tv but I don't use that one. HDMI 1 is located in the back of the tv so I can connect either straight on (which I currently do) or I could use a 90 degree adapter and connect upwards.

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post #1467 of 2304 Old 01-29-2017, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
Hmmm, could you put the receiver on the bottom shelf and then maybe design some sort of support underneath the cable so that it connects in a straight line to the input. Maybe something like a small "L" bracket that is attached to the wall and the cable rests on the long portion of the bracket or is zip-tied to it.

I just noticed that the cable connects sideways to the tv. I have a side HDMI 3 input on my tv but I don't use that one. HDMI 1 is located in the back of the tv so I can connect either straight on (which I currently do) or I could use a 90 degree adapter and connect upwards.
Thanks. I've temporarily alleviated the stress on the AVR input by tying the HDMI cable around a strut on the component stand. Not sure what I'm going to do about the display. It only has side HDMI inputs. One of the few things about the LG OLED65E6P I don't like so far.
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post #1468 of 2304 Old 01-29-2017, 10:24 PM
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Thanks. I've temporarily alleviated the stress on the AVR input by tying the HDMI cable around a strut on the component stand. Not sure what I'm going to do about the display. It only has side HDMI inputs. One of the few things about the LG OLED65E6P I don't like so far.
Yeah, I saw the strut and thought about that as well. You can also put a block or something similar so that the cable sits on it and not "hang" from the input. You might want to look into a 90 degree connector for the LG so that you could run the cable up and behind the panel to connect to the input without having to connect directly from the side. They aren't expensive and if it works then you wouldn't see the cable at all. It also looks like you might be able to attach a plastic zip-tie thru the ventilation slots on the top of the tv creating a loop and then attach another tie to the loop and around the cable to reduce the strain on the input.
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post #1469 of 2304 Old 01-30-2017, 03:50 AM
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Next Issue:

As some have pointed out, the BJC Series-1 Belden Bonded-Pair HDMI Cable is a "fire hose" or extremely thick and heavy cable. I can see why there are some concerns hooking it directly to my sources has it has a tendency to pull or weigh down the HDMI connectors. I'd like to avoid adding anything else into the connection chain. Is there a way to reduce this stress and not add any other adapters and cables?
You might consider zip ties in combination with https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Echo-loc.../dp/B001QV2AKK to get the BJC series-1 hdmi cable to stay connected. Use the zip ties to provide the 'vertical' strain relief by connecting to the A/V rack, then the Blue Echo provides the 'horizontal' strain relief and hdmi pullout resistance.

I have used this combination for years and it works well.

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post #1470 of 2304 Old 01-30-2017, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
Yeah, I saw the strut and thought about that as well. You can also put a block or something similar so that the cable sits on it and not "hang" from the input. You might want to look into a 90 degree connector for the LG so that you could run the cable up and behind the panel to connect to the input without having to connect directly from the side. They aren't expensive and if it works then you wouldn't see the cable at all. It also looks like you might be able to attach a plastic zip-tie thru the ventilation slots on the top of the tv creating a loop and then attach another tie to the loop and around the cable to reduce the strain on the input.
Is there a particular brand of 90-degree connector that's better than another. My fear here is that I just got a cabling solution to work, so I don't want to degrade the signal using a subpar connector.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvwjr View Post
You might consider zip ties in combination with https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Echo-loc.../dp/B001QV2AKK to get the BJC series-1 hdmi cable to stay connected. Use the zip ties to provide the 'vertical' strain relief by connecting to the A/V rack, then the Blue Echo provides the 'horizontal' strain relief and hdmi pullout resistance.

I have used this combination for years and it works well.

dvwjr
Very interesting. I did not know these existed. Thanks!

You guys have been very helpful. I've been away from the AVS Forum community for a long time because I just haven't had the opportunity to upgrade much until recently, but I really love how helpful everyone has been. :grouphug:
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