HDMI cables that support 4K@60Hz, 4:4:4 chroma, and Deep Color? - Page 50 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1471 of 2304 Old 01-30-2017, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul Arnette View Post
Is there a particular brand of 90-degree connector that's better than another. My fear here is that I just got a cabling solution to work, so I don't want to degrade the signal using a subpar connector.

I have not used 90 degree connectors before but they aren't that expensive so I'd buy one and give it a try. If you degrade the signal it just won't work so test it out as you have it setup now, remove the cable from the tv, add the 90 degree, reconnect and see if there is a difference. The Blue Echo as mentioned is a good idea as well. I had forgotten about those.
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post #1472 of 2304 Old 01-30-2017, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
I have not used 90 degree connectors before but they aren't that expensive so I'd buy one and give it a try. If you degrade the signal it just won't work so test it out as you have it setup now, remove the cable from the tv, add the 90 degree, reconnect and see if there is a difference. The Blue Echo as mentioned is a good idea as well. I had forgotten about those.
OK. Thanks! I will try the Cable Matters from Amazon has they have good review feedback and Prime shipping and report back.

My optical HDMI cable is off to CA for Celerity Technologies to look at, so I will report back on that as well at some point. The more information the merrier, I say. It sounds like there are a lot of people in this frustrating, long HDMI run boat.
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post #1473 of 2304 Old 01-31-2017, 01:38 PM
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Another update. Received my 35ft Monster Black Platinum cable over the weekend. I had high hopes for this cable but it proved to be a bust.

Monster Ultimate HDMI Black Platinum 35ft:

2160p 60Hz YUV 420 8 bit PASS
2160p 60Hz YUV 420 10 bit HDR FAIL (No Picture)
2160p 60Hz RGB 444 8 bit FAIL (No Picture)

So able to pass ~10Gb/s but fails on everything 12Gb/s and above. Not good for a cable that costs $200 and is supposed to be good to 27Gb/s.

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post #1474 of 2304 Old 01-31-2017, 01:42 PM
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amazon has the best cables, never have an issue with them
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post #1475 of 2304 Old 01-31-2017, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by jokaly View Post
amazon has the best cables, never have an issue with them
That's a very broad statement. Do you mean Amazon Basics or anything sold by Amazon (note the Monster Cable above which failed miserably was purchased from Amazon).

Do you have any examples of cables that can pass 2160p60 RGB 444 at distances of 25+ft or are you just commenting that you haven't stressed your cables with anything difficult so you're assuming they're as good as anything else on the market?

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post #1476 of 2304 Old 01-31-2017, 02:03 PM
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@CraigAmey : Try KabelDirekt Top Series cables, many report those as passing 18gbps over long distances...
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post #1477 of 2304 Old 01-31-2017, 02:14 PM
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Anything new on the Celerity? I was using a 50ft one in my last theater but it was never asked to pass anything more than early on Sony server 4k. I still have the cable and am setting up a new theater and planned to use it for all of the latest bandwidth intensive goodies.
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post #1478 of 2304 Old 01-31-2017, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post
Anything new on the Celerity? I was using a 50ft one in my last theater but it was never asked to pass anything more than early on Sony server 4k. I still have the cable and am setting up a new theater and planned to use it for all of the latest bandwidth intensive goodies.
I just received a 35 foot Celerity cable and it failed to pass a 4k 60hz HDR signal. It behaved no differently than a 25 foot $20 copper cable from Amazon. $250 down the drain basically, since it was a special order non returnable item.

I'm going to try a monoprice premium certified cable next.
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post #1479 of 2304 Old 02-01-2017, 07:41 AM
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From looking at their site, HDR is the only thing I don't see them claim.... that is unfortunate as my cable is also basically useless. In my new setup I won't really need the length, but I really liked that it totally broke the electrical connection and helped me eliminate a ground loop in my last theater.
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post #1480 of 2304 Old 02-01-2017, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weboperations View Post
I just received a 35 foot Celerity cable and it failed to pass a 4k 60hz HDR signal. It behaved no differently than a 25 foot $20 copper cable from Amazon. $250 down the drain basically, since it was a special order non returnable item.

I'm going to try a monoprice premium certified cable next.
The monoprice CP cables are very good but they only go up to 20ft and mine still produced the occasional white flash. If you only need 4K60 HDR it would be okay since that's only 12-14Gb/s (YUV 420/422 10 bit). RGB is much harder (RGB 444 8 bit, 17.8Gb/s) and the only cable I've personally tested that could do that is the Belden BJC Series-1 25ft ($87 from Amazon).

Others have said the KableDirekt can also do this but I've yet to try one personally, and if you read the reviews on Amazon the people who actually tried 2160p60 RGB 444 said they didn't work even at 20ft. Not totally surprising for a cable that costs less than $20, especially when you consider a $200 Monster cable couldn't do it.

It seems that there is no magic to be had here, you need a serious fire-hose of a cable to do RGB 444 and anything less you might get lucky but it's a crap-shoot. The BJC Series-1 weighs a ton and doesn't bend well but it has 23.5AWG conductors and it does the job.

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post #1481 of 2304 Old 02-01-2017, 08:49 PM
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I got the 90 degree HDMI adapter I got from Amazon by Cable Matters seems to be working without a hitch. :fingerscrossed:

I also install the Blue Echo HDMI lock on the AVR HDMI output. That and securing the "fire hose" to the struts has taken all the stress off that input. Nice.

Thanks again, guys!
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post #1482 of 2304 Old 02-02-2017, 02:11 PM
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hi....
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post #1483 of 2304 Old 02-02-2017, 02:44 PM
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hi guys new to this thread......i have a high end pc with a gtx 1080 ftw gpu connected to a sony 55inc 4k hdr tv (model xd9305)

i am having issues trying to pass a 4k rgb 4:4:4 from my pc to my tv....i have tried lost of high speed hdmi leads to date.....to get this to work but cant

my run from pc to tv is around the 16 ft mark ..........

the closet i got to actually getting this to work was using a hdmi cable from kabel direct...i purchased 2 of there high speed certified cables....the first cable was faulty as i could not even get 1920 x 1080 res....but the second cable on the other hand.....i did briefly manage to get rgb 4:4:4....but my joy was short lived as i noticed the sparkling effect...red flashing pixels across screen...(really noticeable against a black background)....and then i also got picture dropout every 10mins or so for a few secs...so i wouldn't bother with this cables....especially for long runs

(maybe i will have to move the pc closer to tv me thinks to get around this)

i know its because i need a long run 16ft that's causing these issues....but surely in this day and age of tech.....there must be a cable out there thats capable of doing this....most hdmi sellers companies claim there cables are hdmi 2.0 compatible and certified high speed 18 gbits when in fact there not.....and most are only capable of 10.2 gbits (i find this so frustrating that they are allowed market and advertise and sell their cables this way)

as far as im aware there are no such thing as hdmi 2.0/a/b cables..(its the devices which need to be compatible).....hdmi cables are either low speed or high speed and that's it.....

the recommend speed for 4k hdr is18gbits....highest bandwidth cable i have come across is 27gbits from monster....but i have heard these don't even work

i am also aware that 2.1 hdmi is not to far off....maybe this will be the only solution...seen as these will be able to deliver 48gbits

anyway....i came across these cables and wanted to see if anyone has heard or tried these

certified premium high speed hdmi cables with Ethernet from a company called vanco

will post links at a later date as i have not posted enough posts yet to be able to post the links......

thanks guys for reading


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post #1484 of 2304 Old 02-02-2017, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigAmey View Post
The monoprice CP cables are very good but they only go up to 20ft and mine still produced the occasional white flash. If you only need 4K60 HDR it would be okay since that's only 12-14Gb/s (YUV 420/422 10 bit). RGB is much harder (RGB 444 8 bit, 17.8Gb/s) and the only cable I've personally tested that could do that is the Belden BJC Series-1 25ft ($87 from Amazon).

Others have said the KableDirekt can also do this but I've yet to try one personally, and if you read the reviews on Amazon the people who actually tried 2160p60 RGB 444 said they didn't work even at 20ft. Not totally surprising for a cable that costs less than $20, especially when you consider a $200 Monster cable couldn't do it.

It seems that there is no magic to be had here, you need a serious fire-hose of a cable to do RGB 444 and anything less you might get lucky but it's a crap-shoot. The BJC Series-1 weighs a ton and doesn't bend well but it has 23.5AWG conductors and it does the job.
hi.....please read my post about those kabel direct hdmi cables......i bought two 7.5 m cables
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post #1485 of 2304 Old 02-02-2017, 02:54 PM
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you recommend these cables......The BJC Series-1......would like to give them a shot....trouble is im in ireland...and to ship from us prob cost a small fortune?....will check out do....thanks CraigAmey
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post #1486 of 2304 Old 02-02-2017, 02:57 PM
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here are those links to these vanco cables
Certified Premium High Speed HDMI® Cables with Ethernet

http://www.vanco1.com/catalog/HDMI_2...-Ethernet_1546
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post #1487 of 2304 Old 02-02-2017, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by rayh271 View Post
hi.....please read my post about those kabel direct hdmi cables......i bought two 7.5 m cables
KabelDirect pros work up to 20 feet (6.1 meters) max for 4k/60 444. 7.5 meters is 24.6 feet which are too long for 4K.

Can you get a 6-meter KDPro?
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post #1488 of 2304 Old 02-02-2017, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by rayh271 View Post
here are those links to these vanco cables
Certified Premium High Speed HDMI® Cables with Ethernet

http://www.vanco1.com/catalog/HDMI_2...-Ethernet_1546
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk5hsDJBkVY
Without testing them personally I can't say for sure but their longer cables are 24AWG and they don't make any ridiculous claims like working at > 25ft or passing 27Gb/s so it looks legit. I found the 25ft for sale here http://www.cableorganizer.com/p/vanco-hdmi-4k-cable/ for $64.49.

It would be nice if you bought this and let us know if it works but if your priority is to get your setup working go with the BJC Series-1. Simply put, it's about the same price, has thicker conductors and has been tested independently and verified to pass RGB 444 at 25ft. The Vanco would probably work but it's an unknown entity, and as we've discovered there are a lot of vendors claiming they can make it work but very few (one IMHO) that can actually pull it off.

If you only need 20ft go with the Monoprice Certified Premium cable. It has been verified by several people at 2160p60 RGB 444 and only costs $14.99.

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post #1489 of 2304 Old 02-02-2017, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by CraigAmey View Post
Without testing them personally I can't say for sure but their longer cables are 24AWG and they don't make any ridiculous claims like working at > 25ft or passing 27Gb/s so it looks legit. I found the 25ft for sale here http://www.cableorganizer.com/p/vanco-hdmi-4k-cable/ for $64.49.

It would be nice if you bought this and let us know if it works but if your priority is to get your setup working go with the BJC Series-1. Simply put, it's about the same price, has thicker conductors and has been tested independently and verified to pass RGB 444 at 25ft. The Vanco would probably work but it's an unknown entity, and as we've discovered there are a lot of vendors claiming they can make it work but very few (one IMHO) that can actually pull it off.

If you only need 20ft go with the Monoprice Certified Premium cable. It has been verified by several people at 2160p60 RGB 444 and only costs $14.99.
thanks for your reply......

i chatted with monoprice.....i will paste a copy of the chat here....the agent couldn't or simply just didn't know if cable could do what i asked him.....i dont want to order these cables and have them not work...because as i say im here in Ireland and it would cost me $50 just to ship them to Ireland....which means another $50 to ship them back if don't work.

Brian R: Ray, let me transfer you to our Product Support team to give your accurate information. One moment
rayh271: ok thanks brian
Ruben T: Thank you for contacting Monoprice. My name is Ruben T. one moment while I review your question
rayh271: yes sure
Ruben T: these would be 18gbps and run [email protected] up to 20 ft
Ruben T: they will also work with hdr and be cl3 rated
Ruben T: is there anything else I can assist you with today?
rayh271: i have a high end pc with a gtx 1080 gpu.....and i will be connecting the gpu to my sony 55inch 4k hdr tv 9model xd9305)
Ruben T: this would be able to work No problem.
Ruben T: it will be HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 compliant so fully updated to run 4k
Ruben T: is there anything else I can assist you with today?
rayh271: so i will be able to get rgb full 4:4:4 at 60hz....
Ruben T: it willl support a full [email protected] if you would be referring to the resolution
Ruben T: Are you still with me?
rayh271: yes i know they will support 4k at 60hz....most 10.2 cables do....what i am asking is will it support rgb limited/full....which is a slightly higher spec than 4k @ 60hz
Ruben T: if it would be a higher spec than [email protected] then I would have to say that it would not be compatible for your use
rayh271: rgb full/limited 4:4:4 at 60hz from my gtx 1080 gpu...
Ruben T: I would not have the compatibility for the gtx 1080 gpu I apologize for the inconvenience
rayh271: im not talking 8k or anything
rayh271: you see i dont want to order these cables all the way from us to ireland....and find out they dont work?
Ruben T: if the specs stated above are not the same as the requirements of you gtx 1080 gpu then I would not be able to say yes or no for I would not know the compatibility of your device and these cables
rayh271: alot of manufactures are saying there cables can do this....most can say at 3m and under....but just not at that distance of 20ft
Ruben T: the specs that the cable is rated would be the same at 3ft as it would at 20ft for these cables there is no drop in speed at the lengths we sale

so i dont know what to do now? if amazon uk sold them i would buy them right now....as i could send them back no probs if did not work.....some people say they work.....some say they dont.....i mean they either work or they dont........oooohhhhh...why is this so hard to find cables...in all my days of tech i never experienced anything like it
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post #1490 of 2304 Old 02-02-2017, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by doctorwizz View Post
KabelDirect pros work up to 20 feet (6.1 meters) max for 4k/60 444. 7.5 meters is 24.6 feet which are too long for 4K.

Can you get a 6-meter KDPro?
thanks for your response

kabel direct (is german company) which do sell 5m cables......have you tried these in this 5m or 6m size yourself...and did they work for you....of the 2 7.5m cables i bought one was faulty straight away...could even do 1920 x 1080....but other was passing the rgb 4:4:4 but then failed as i mentioned in previous post

they claim to be certified but .....
i see on the reviews that here hit or miss.....
maybe i will try them again in 5m this time
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post #1491 of 2304 Old 02-02-2017, 07:17 PM
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i have other so called certified hdmi cables arriving either today or tomorrow...these are all 3m or under....so i will report back my findings on here when test them out....im determined to solve this haha
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post #1492 of 2304 Old 02-02-2017, 07:20 PM
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Welcome to our world. There is a reason there is a dedicated thread to this topic.

The good news is you really don't have too many choices. If you look at it by exclusion the only cables that haven't been demonstrated NOT to work are the Series-1 and the Monoprice CP. My setup seems about as sensitive as anyone's and both those cables worked for me. No question that the Series-1 is the better cable as I was able to run a connector and additional six foot CP cable on the end and still have it work (not true for the 20ft Monoprice CP).

If all you're doing is running a single 20ft run with no connectors I would be shocked if the Series-1 didn't work. Other posters have used 35ft Series-1 cables and had them pass RGB 444 without a problem. Yes, they cost more and the shipping will be more (due to their weight) but given the difficulty returning it and the cost of shipping just eat the cost and go with the (currently) best known solution.

And yes, HDMI 2.0b is on the horizon but that's not going to magically make all these cables better, it just means more cables are going to fail.

LG OLED65C6P TV
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post #1493 of 2304 Old 02-02-2017, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by rayh271 View Post
thanks for your response

kabel direct (is german company) which do sell 5m cables......have you tried these in this 5m or 6m size yourself...and did they work for you....of the 2 7.5m cables i bought one was faulty straight away...could even do 1920 x 1080....but other was passing the rgb 4:4:4 but then failed as i mentioned in previous post

they claim to be certified but .....
i see on the reviews that here hit or miss.....
maybe i will try them again in 5m this time
I have a lot of experience with the KD's. I have 5 of them. From 3 feet to 20 feet. They all pass perfect 444 4K/60 RGB 60Hz with a GTX 980. Properly tested with the "Fox" 444 test.
Back in Sept 2014, I had the same problem of finding a cable that worked with the newly released 900 Nvidia series. When I purchased a 20ft KDPro, it worked perfectly from PC to TV.
Since then I have tested the KDPro 15 foot, 10 foot, 6 foot, and 3 foot. All worked to pass 444 at 4K/60
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post #1494 of 2304 Old 02-03-2017, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by CraigAmey View Post
Welcome to our world. There is a reason there is a dedicated thread to this topic.

The good news is you really don't have too many choices. If you look at it by exclusion the only cables that haven't been demonstrated NOT to work are the Series-1 and the Monoprice CP. My setup seems about as sensitive as anyone's and both those cables worked for me. No question that the Series-1 is the better cable as I was able to run a connector and additional six foot CP cable on the end and still have it work (not true for the 20ft Monoprice CP).

If all you're doing is running a single 20ft run with no connectors I would be shocked if the Series-1 didn't work. Other posters have used 35ft Series-1 cables and had them pass RGB 444 without a problem. Yes, they cost more and the shipping will be more (due to their weight) but given the difficulty returning it and the cost of shipping just eat the cost and go with the (currently) best known solution.

And yes, HDMI 2.0b is on the horizon but that's not going to magically make all these cables better, it just means more cables are going to fail.

might go with that bjc cable......heres an interesting article i came across about hdmi 2.1....release date, according to this article....2.0 devices will be up-gradable to 2.1....(The new specification will be available to all HDMI 2.0 Adopters, and they will be notified when it is released early in Q2 2017) now that would be good...

if this is true.......what this also means is that new 2.1 cables....will have to be certified to work at 48gbps.....therefore all 1.4, 2.0 compatible cables would be obsolete...for high end users of hdmi bandwidth.......and current manufacturers wont be able to advertise there cables as hdmi 2.1 compatible unless they can do speeds of 48gbps

http://hometheaterreview.com/hdmi-fo...specification/
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post #1495 of 2304 Old 02-03-2017, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by doctorwizz View Post
I have a lot of experience with the KD's. I have 5 of them. From 3 feet to 20 feet. They all pass perfect 444 4K/60 RGB 60Hz with a GTX 980. Properly tested with the "Fox" 444 test.
Back in Sept 2014, I had the same problem of finding a cable that worked with the newly released 900 Nvidia series. When I purchased a 20ft KDPro, it worked perfectly from PC to TV.
Since then I have tested the KDPro 15 foot, 10 foot, 6 foot, and 3 foot. All worked to pass 444 at 4K/60
yeah i have used there cables for years on all my old hd gear....and never had any probs.....i might chance getting one 5m cable to try at that lenght?

you mention the fox 444 test? is there a way to test your cables with software.....nvidia told me to use this software to test my display

monitor assist manager
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post #1496 of 2304 Old 02-03-2017, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rayh271 View Post
yeah i have used there cables for years on all my old hd gear....and never had any probs.....i might chance getting one 5m cable to try at that lenght?

you mention the fox 444 test? is there a way to test your cables with software.....nvidia told me to use this software to test my display

monitor assist manager
Fox test is a .png image to quickly tell if you are getting 444.
You have to be certain that your windows scaling is at 100%, otherwise you can get a false positive. Also, make sure that your image viewer is not scaling the image.
It is a 720 image

Download it here:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/rl7rfv...tach208609.png

Read about the test here
http://www.geeks3d.com/20141203/how-...our-4k-uhd-tv/
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post #1497 of 2304 Old 02-03-2017, 08:56 AM
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Thank good I found this thread.
The prolem I have is that the AV-receiver is like 7meters away from the TV.
However the TV is mounted on the wall and the cables going to the TV are in small pipes inside the wall.

Unless I can remove the HDMI cable plug at one of the two ends.. I cannot fit a HDMI kabel into these pipes (due to the plug being too big).
However I'd lke to do 4:4:4 4K 60fps as well (the 18Gbit/s signal).

So are there any hdmi over fiber or ethernet adapters supporing this ?
I already have the cat6 ethernet cables going trough the small pipes but I can also easily go under the floor to push some fiber glass cable into one of the pipes.

Any ideas?
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post #1498 of 2304 Old 02-03-2017, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginosius View Post
Unless I can remove the HDMI cable plug at one of the two ends.. I cannot fit a HDMI kabel into these pipes (due to the plug being too big).
However I'd lke to do 4:4:4 4K 60fps as well (the 18Gbit/s signal).
Any ideas?
The problem is that the kind of cables that can run RGB 444 reliably over that distance are as thick as the connector head anyway.

LG OLED65C6P TV
LG AN-MR700 Remote
Yamaha RX-A1060 Receiver
Samsung UBD-K8500 4K Bluray Player
Sony PS4-Pro
Xfinity X1
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post #1499 of 2304 Old 02-03-2017, 10:13 AM
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this the response i got from bjc regarding the bjc series-1 cables you suggested

While we cannot promise anything because of it not being Premium Certified, most of our customer base has had success at 20 feet with the Series-1 cable.
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articl...hdmi-cable.htm

i dont think i will go with them bjc Series-1 cables after the response i had from bjc themselves

bjc honestly say in there response to me....these cables are not premium certified......

i have read on other forums what i want to do is impossible right now with 2.0 spec....because in order to do full 4k rgb 4:4:4 @ 60hz 10 / 12 bit colour....higher hdmi spec will be required like hdmi 2.0a/b.....or 2.1hdmi

i dismantled my whole setup yesterday and took out all hdmi cables i had in walls which i used for all my old gear (hd only devices no 4k).....from bout 4 years ago.....i then test all the different brand cables i had.....and unbelievably the 3m cablesson prime hdmi has worked at 4k rgb 4:4:4 @ 60hz 8bit colour.........

4k rgb 4:4:4 @ 60hz 8bit colour.......is the absolute limit right now for 2.0hdmi spec.....

2.0a may increase this to 4k rgb 4:4:4 @ 60hz 10 bit colour......and then 2.1 at 4k rgb 4:4:4 @ 60hz 12 bit colour in the future

here is hdmi 2.0 limit chart



HDMI Versions (1.4, 2.0 and beyond)

There have been essentially three types of of “4K capable” HDMI chipsets on the market. These have been implemented into various TVs, projectors, processors, AVRs and switchers since the 4K came onto the market in 2013.
  • HDMI 1.4 chipsets supported data rates up to 10.2Gbps. This means they could do 4K at up to 30 frames per second at the formats supported by the 1.4 standard (8 bit RGB or 4:4:4 and 12 bit 4:2:2). Whilst 1.4 is therefore theoretically 4K capable nearly all components that have it lack HDCP2.2, which is the copy protection scheme the industry has settled on for UHD.
  • We then saw HDMI 2.0 chipsets that supported the new formats in the 2.0 standard but were still limited to data rates of 10.2Gbps. These new chipsets have HDCP2.2 so they can display some but potentially not all UHD content.
  • Finally at the end of 2015 we started to see 18Gbps chipsets.
We’ve summarized this information together with the formats and bandwidth requirements in the table below:



read the full article here


sometimes i think you would need a degree in all this hdmi stuff.....they make it so confusing.....hopefully with these new hdmi 2.1 spec 48gbits cables...all these problems will not exsist


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post #1500 of 2304 Old 02-03-2017, 10:24 AM
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sorry forgot to include link on last post

http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/uhd-101-v2/

as you can see from last chart rgb 10 and 12 bit colour....require a higher bandwidth than 18gbps.....so its not possible to do with any hdmi cable on the market now......that is why i will wait for a proper certified hdmi 2.1 48gbps cable.....although my devices wont be 2.1....these cables will be backward compatible with hdmi 2.0....and give us the bandwith we need......so therefore only solution for me....future proof also

(monster claim to have a cable that deos 27gbits but dont no if works....and not willing to try)......as i say i wait for hdmi 2.1 cables...i think this is our only solution.....and also these should be good for long runs too.

i have moved my pc nearer to my tv and will leave it setup like this until 2.1 cables become available around june/july
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