HDMI cables that support 4K@60Hz, 4:4:4 chroma, and Deep Color? - Page 53 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1561 of 2304 Old 02-15-2017, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonas2 View Post
I currently have the Belden Premium Certifieds, but last weekend had to reroute some things, including HDMI cables, and situation now is that the stiffness/stout build of these cables is not working in my favor. I've seen a few similar complaints on the Monoprice certified cables - stiff! Where should I be looking for Certified, but more flexible? Or I guess Certified is nice, but not a requirement - so long as it is the 4K 4:4:4 60Hz capable. Was thinking about the Monoprice that's 2.5 x as expensive as the certified ones, that are not certified but claim to meet the specs.

No long runs, looking for 6 foot cables. Longest run is 11 feet: 5 feet to pre-pro (already a certified cable), then need to more flexible 6-footers from pre-pro to TV.....
You might want to give these a try. While more expensive than Monoprice or BJC, they are availble in varoius lengths thru Amazon. Here is a link to their web site where you will see in the photos that they are Premium Certified. I purchased a 10 footer myself and am having zero issues. Disclaimer - I do not yet have a 4K television.

http://www.vanco1.com/catalog/HDMI_2...-Ethernet_1546
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post #1562 of 2304 Old 02-15-2017, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by 65Goat View Post
You might want to give these a try. While more expensive than Monoprice or BJC, they are availble in varoius lengths thru Amazon. Here is a link to their web site where you will see in the photos that they are Premium Certified. I purchased a 10 footer myself and am having zero issues. Disclaimer - I do not yet have a 4K television.

http://www.vanco1.com/catalog/HDMI_2...-Ethernet_1546
Thanks for the recommendation! Are they pretty flexible? Not too stiff?
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post #1563 of 2304 Old 02-15-2017, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonas2 View Post
Thanks for the recommendation! Are they pretty flexible? Not too stiff?
I'd go with this Rocketfish one. More expensive than the Monoprice but definitely more flexible, and the 4ft version I tested was one of the few cables able to pass RGB444 when combined with a 25ft BJC and a female-female HDMI connector, so a single 6ft should have no trouble.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/rocketfi...?skuId=5405200

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post #1564 of 2304 Old 02-15-2017, 04:07 PM
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RocketFish = Monster, imo.
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post #1565 of 2304 Old 02-15-2017, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by CraigAmey View Post
I'd go with this Rocketfish one. More expensive than the Monoprice but definitely more flexible, and the 4ft version I tested was one of the few cables able to pass RGB444 when combined with a 25ft BJC and a female-female HDMI connector, so a single 6ft should have no trouble.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/rocketfi...?skuId=5405200
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
RocketFish = Monster, imo.
Good to know. The Beldens weren't cheap, but not too expensive. This one is more, but I only need one, maybe two. So wouldn't break the bank if it provides the flex. I'm looking for.

That connector end looks asymmetrically thick though - don't know if it'd fit it on my set! But I've got a local BestBuy, and they've got my set, so I should be able to compare on-site.
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post #1566 of 2304 Old 02-15-2017, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonas2 View Post
Thanks for the recommendation! Are they pretty flexible? Not too stiff?
Very flexible. I have been a long time user of the Mediabridge cables, and the Vanco are just as flexible (cables are the same thickness).
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post #1567 of 2304 Old 02-15-2017, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by BrandonJF View Post
I finally tried a 15' MP Certified -> Blackbird -> 15' MP certified combo and thought I was going to pull it off. It's just not going to happen, though.
Bummer it's not working for you. I'm using this configuration from my Denon 920 to my JVC RS projector and it's working reliably. I use 6' MP cert cables between PS4P, Samsung UHD and other things and the Denon AVR.

It's just crazy how variable everyone's results are. So frustrating.

I'm just waiting for it to stop working for me, probably about when I pull it through the wall...
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post #1568 of 2304 Old 02-15-2017, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
RocketFish = Monster, imo.
Well I tried the 5ft Monster Black Platinum alongside the 4ft Rocketfish and they both worked but definitely not the same cable. The Monster was much stiffer and thicker and had a more positive lock on insertion. I ended up keeping the Monster and returning the Rocketfish but in retrospect they're probably as good as each other and the Rocketfish is half the price. (Note that the $5 Monoprice 6ft CP cable also worked but the $24 Belden FE failed as did the $150 Audioquest).
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post #1569 of 2304 Old 02-16-2017, 06:13 AM
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Is it just me, or is HDMI just kind of a bad design? I know it's got its merits, but the inconsistencies seem to be, well, something not good....
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post #1570 of 2304 Old 02-16-2017, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by 65Goat View Post
You might want to give these a try. While more expensive than Monoprice or BJC, they are availble in varoius lengths thru Amazon. Here is a link to their web site where you will see in the photos that they are Premium Certified. I purchased a 10 footer myself and am having zero issues. Disclaimer - I do not yet have a 4K television.

http://www.vanco1.com/catalog/HDMI_2...-Ethernet_1546
i posted a link on here about these cables, but never tried them............but you say you have purchased a 10 ft cable......and you claim these cables will work ....im not trying to be rude or anything.......yes of course they will work just like any 10 foot hdmi cables will work.....but will they do rgb 4:4:4 8 bit colour @ 4k 60hz....

you say you have no 4k TV...that's my point...so how can you say that theses work.....because you cannot possibly test them for 4k???
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post #1571 of 2304 Old 02-16-2017, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by rayh271 View Post
you say you have no 4k TV...that's my point...so how can you say that theses work.....because you cannot possibly test them for 4k???
Agreed. The only people who should be posting recommendations (for or against) on this thread are people who have personally tested the cable at 2160p60 RGB444 or YCbCr444, i.e. the full 18Gb/s bandwidth. More specifically if someone is looking for a 50ft+ run the fact that you were able to get stable signal over a 1ft cable isn't much value as we all know by now that the likelihood of it working decreases exponentially once you go over about 15ft.

Specs and even certification to some degree are no indicator of success, nor is price. Real world tests are the only thing that has proven reliable and even there different people using the same cables don't always see the same result. For example ...

Belden Series-1 seems to be the best performing cable out there but is only certified at HDMI 1.2
Audioquest cables cost like sin and don't start working at length until you're in the $1000 price range.
Monoprice CP cables are cheap as chips and work amazingly well.
Monster Black Platinum has specs and eye patterns all over the package showing 27Gb/s performance but in the real world couldn't even pass 18Gb/s reliably.
Belden FE cables are certifed premium but were outperformed by Monoprice cables at 1/5 the price.

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post #1572 of 2304 Old 02-16-2017, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by CraigAmey View Post
Monoprice CP cables are cheap as chips and work amazingly well.
I'm kinda leaning in this direction, stupid-cheap , but I am concerned about the stiffness being reported. Also wondering about the MP Ultra-slim series, they've got one not certified premium, but supposedly has the "needed" specs, and interestingly a lot more expensive than their own CP cables. Not sure what gives with that! I guess because it is an active cable, which I'm a bit leary of at such a short run....
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post #1573 of 2304 Old 02-16-2017, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by rayh271 View Post
i posted a link on here about these cables, but never tried them............but you say you have purchased a 10 ft cable......and you claim these cables will work ....im not trying to be rude or anything.......yes of course they will work just like any 10 foot hdmi cables will work.....but will they do rgb 4:4:4 8 bit colour @ 4k 60hz....

you say you have no 4k TV...that's my point...so how can you say that theses work.....because you cannot possibly test them for 4k???
I may have learned about this manufacturer and their cables as a result of your post on this thread previously. The reason for my post to advise the other person is because I see many people posting and asking questions about cables and I was just trying to offer an alternative. You are correct - I do not have a 4K TV (as I stated), but the rest of my equipment is 4K capable and I am in the process of updating my cables so that I will be ready when I do make that purchase. It seems that from all of the threads that I read on here the consensus seems to be that the cables need to be "Premium Certified" in order to pass a 4K signal. I was simply trying to offer an alternative for a fellow poster. It is up to him (or you) to do the proper due diligence to insure that the cable meets their needs. I made no claims as to 4:4:4 or 4:2:0 and I made it clear that I did not have 4K.

Why do I feel like it's the Spanish inquisition here when someone offers an alternative? All I was trying to do was help another poster out. If it were me who had asked for some help with cable selection, I would have been appreciative for the feedback and would have purchased one of the cables recommended and tested it. Sorry for offering any assistance - I will refrain in future.
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the only luck I had with my set-up:

source - marantz 7702mk2 - JVC RS500

was to install a short mp certified cable - blackbird 4k booster - blujeans series 1 hdmi cable at 35ft. Then, I have to make sure the preamp powers on BEFORE the projector. I haven't tried switching sources yet (I currently only have on source device)
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what you guys reckon is the best premium high-speed hdmi cables..... outhere at the moment....that are capable of full 18Gb/s) ...i have cut down my run to under 12 ft in total.....2 6ft cables will be required.....6ft from pc to av receiver.....then 6ft from av receiver to the tv

im looking to get this res....rgb 4:4:4 8 bit colour @ 4k 60hz........

my setup is.....a pc with a (gtx1080) gpu in it.....to my av receiver (denon avr x6300h)....then out to 4k hdr tv (sony xd9305).....all hdmi ports on my devices are 2.0hdmi spec

thanks in advance for any help

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post #1576 of 2304 Old 02-16-2017, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by 65Goat View Post
Why do I feel like it's the Spanish inquisition here when someone offers an alternative? All I was trying to do was help another poster out. If it were me who had asked for some help with cable selection, I would have been appreciative for the feedback and would have purchased one of the cables recommended and tested it. Sorry for offering any assistance - I will refrain in future.
I'm sorry you feel that way, and being the one who asked the original question - I do appreciate the response!
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post #1577 of 2304 Old 02-16-2017, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by 65Goat View Post
I may have learned about this manufacturer and their cables as a result of your post on this thread previously. The reason for my post to advise the other person is because I see many people posting and asking questions about cables and I was just trying to offer an alternative. You are correct - I do not have a 4K TV (as I stated), but the rest of my equipment is 4K capable and I am in the process of updating my cables so that I will be ready when I do make that purchase. It seems that from all of the threads that I read on here the consensus seems to be that the cables need to be "Premium Certified" in order to pass a 4K signal. I was simply trying to offer an alternative for a fellow poster. It is up to him (or you) to do the proper due diligence to insure that the cable meets their needs. I made no claims as to 4:4:4 or 4:2:0 and I made it clear that I did not have 4K.

Why do I feel like it's the Spanish inquisition here when someone offers an alternative? All I was trying to do was help another poster out. If it were me who had asked for some help with cable selection, I would have been appreciative for the feedback and would have purchased one of the cables recommended and tested it. Sorry for offering any assistance - I will refrain in future.
sorry if the point i was trying to make came across wrong to you goat65.....that was not my intention....i was simply pointing out to you that you simply hadn't tested the said cable to its maximum potential like 18gbs....(alot of mfs say there cables are 18gbs when they are simply not....that is why us here on this thread are trying to find out which ones work and which ones don't....regardless of this certification.....the only way to tell if cables are good is by real life testing of the cables by posters on here who have tried them.......so therefore this is why it would of been impossible for you to say that this cable works with no issues....and recommend to others....as you have no way of testing 4k at the moment to prove the cables can actually do 4k.....you say you are in the process of updating your cables....so that you will be ready when you do make that 4ktv purchase....(so what happens then when you purchase your brand new awesome 4ktv.....only to find out the very hdmi cables you bought don't work....infact we here are trying to help you...because if someone had of posted on here about the cables not working....then you would not purchase them....its pointless buying the cables first imo anyway....i know you didn't make any 4k claims about the cable....and were simply trying to help someone out...but the whole point of this cable is that it is supposed to be able to do full uhd 4k @ 60hz.....as its advertised as highspeed 18gps........and by you saying the cable works fine...can be somehow misinterpreted by others that this cable can do 4k...the answer is we simply dont know until someone tests.... it properly.....thats all im trying to say to you

i hope this has not put you of the tread....and you continue to give your input....best regards rayh271
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post #1578 of 2304 Old 02-16-2017, 02:21 PM
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Having tried a few 10m (30ish feet) cables advertising 18gbps in NZ one 24awg and one 26awg with redmere and all of them failing at 4k 30hz I have order 2 BJC series 1 15 foot cables and a blackbird 4k repeater to try and get the best of both worlds.


Will arrive mid March - will let you know then.
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post #1579 of 2304 Old 02-16-2017, 05:48 PM
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Having tried a few 10m (30ish feet) cables advertising 18gbps in NZ one 24awg and one 26awg with redmere and all of them failing at 4k 30hz I have order 2 BJC series 1 15 foot cables and a blackbird 4k repeater to try and get the best of both worlds.


Will arrive mid March - will let you know then.
Will be interested to see if this works. My guess is that a single 30ft Series-1 would have been a better choice.

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post #1580 of 2304 Old 02-16-2017, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by rayh271 View Post
what you guys reckon is the best premium high-speed hdmi cables..... outhere at the moment....that are capable of full 18Gb/s) ...i have cut down my run to under 12 ft in total.....2 6ft cables will be required.....6ft from pc to av receiver.....then 6ft from av receiver to the tv

im looking to get this res....rgb 4:4:4 8 bit colour @ 4k 60hz........

my setup is.....a pc with a (gtx1080) gpu in it.....to my av receiver (denon avr x6300h)....then out to 4k hdr tv (sony xd9305).....all hdmi ports on my devices are 2.0hdmi spec

thanks in advance for any help

Monoprice CP cables by far your best (and least expensive) choice. Yes, they're a little stiff but okay as long as you have a bit of room behind your components. Otherwise I'd try Rocketfish next.
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post #1581 of 2304 Old 02-16-2017, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by 65Goat View Post
Sorry for offering any assistance - I will refrain in future.
Sulking is not permitted here as it is a violation of forum rules and policies. The best and the worst thing about forums is that we all get to say what we really mean, so don't take it too personally.

The point wasn't to offend anyone but there's a lot of misinformation that gets put on forums as truth (the first sentence above for example :-)) and sometimes it's hard to wade through it all and get to the real information. That's why it's best not to offer too much conjecture without backing it up with references or hard data.

We're probably a bit sensitive about it because most of us have spent significant amounts of money and time being guinea pigs for manufacturers whose claims about their cable's capabilities are nothing but shameless lies.

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post #1582 of 2304 Old 02-16-2017, 10:08 PM
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So I had my DVR upgraded to a 4k model which got me in the mood to finally pull the trigger on the full 4k setup. My old setup was DVR, PS4, Denon AVR 788 and a Vizio GV52L. The run from the AVR to the TV is 25ft. The run from everything else to the AVR is 3ft. Currently I have old super thick MP cable to the TV and standard on the 3ft runs. Of course with the old setup everything is fine.
My new setup that I'm putting together is going to replace the Vizio with a Samsung 65KS800D and the Denon has already been replaced with a Yamaha TSR5810.
Before reading this thread I thought this would be easy. I ordered a MP 25ft active cable and two 3ft MP CP cables. Now I'm wondering if I'm going to have problems.
With my current setup (and if I upgrade to PS4Pro) should I be concerned that I'm not getting full throughput? How do I test it with that setup?
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post #1583 of 2304 Old 02-17-2017, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by rstark18 View Post
So I had my DVR upgraded to a 4k model which got me in the mood to finally pull the trigger on the full 4k setup. My old setup was DVR, PS4, Denon AVR 788 and a Vizio GV52L. The run from the AVR to the TV is 25ft. The run from everything else to the AVR is 3ft. Currently I have old super thick MP cable to the TV and standard on the 3ft runs. Of course with the old setup everything is fine.
My new setup that I'm putting together is going to replace the Vizio with a Samsung 65KS800D and the Denon has already been replaced with a Yamaha TSR5810.
Before reading this thread I thought this would be easy. I ordered a MP 25ft active cable and two 3ft MP CP cables. Now I'm wondering if I'm going to have problems.
With my current setup (and if I upgrade to PS4Pro) should I be concerned that I'm not getting full throughput? How do I test it with that setup?
Unfortunately the MP active cable will get you 4K HDR (YUV420) but no better. The highest resolution output from the PS4 Pro is 4K RGB (RGB 444) which is almost 18Gb/s and I don't know of any active cable that can do that. If you can live with 20ft go with the Monoprice Certified Premium cable, if you need longer get a Belden BJC Series-1.

As far as testing goes you will likely have issues with the receiver. Most Yamaha receivers default to Video Mode 2 which only allows YUV420. You'll get a message from your PS4 Pro that it only supports 2K HDR (1080p). To change the mode it will be something like this

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/98....html?page=122

Once you've changed mode the PS4 Pro will switch up to RGB 444 and if your cables can't handle it you'll get a black screen or in some cases a picture with occasional flashes of white and or sparkles in black areas. At that point you can also boot your PS4 Pro into safe mode and force the resolution to YUV 420 to get your picture back.

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post #1584 of 2304 Old 02-17-2017, 10:53 AM
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So, I'm I incorrect to conclude that there is no "thin" (really flexible) cable that truly supports [email protected], 4:4:4 chroma, and Deep Color?

Also, wondering about various angled connectors....I wouldn't think they would affect anything, but are these kinds of connectors generally assumed to also support pretty much any standard? Guess I'm having trouble understanding why a pin-to-pin (pin for pin?) connection wouldn't support any standard....
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post #1585 of 2304 Old 02-17-2017, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by CraigAmey View Post
Will be interested to see if this works. My guess is that a single 30ft Series-1 would have been a better choice.
agreed, in my setup, I have the blackbird before my 35ft run
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post #1586 of 2304 Old 02-17-2017, 11:53 AM
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So, I'm I incorrect to conclude that there is no "thin" (really flexible) cable that truly supports [email protected], 4:4:4 chroma, and Deep Color?

Also, wondering about various angled connectors....I wouldn't think they would affect anything, but are these kinds of connectors generally assumed to also support pretty much any standard? Guess I'm having trouble understanding why a pin-to-pin (pin for pin?) connection wouldn't support any standard....
If by Deep Color you mean 10 bit HDR then there is NO cable of any size that supports that. At best you can get 8 bit at 2160p60 RGB 444 but beyond that you're outside the range of HDMI 2.0a and only a handful of cables can handle even 8 bit.

Remember that run length is significant. My Monoprice Ultraslim 6ft cables came very close to passing RGB 444 but still had occasional problems. 3ft might have worked but I ended up swapping for 3ft CP cables. Once you get over about 10ft then you are correct, there are no slim cables that work at RGB 444. Over 20ft the ones that work resemble fire hoses (23 AWG).

Connectors aren't much of a problem, unless they have tails like some of the Monoprice HDMI wall plates. If you understand the physics of wave propagation the problem is that even slight changes in impedance around the connector cause some of the signal to be reflected rather than transmitted which means less signal gets to the receiver. The goal is that the transceivers and the cable should all have exactly the same impedance which is why it is best to use the same type of cable when connecting runs together.

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post #1587 of 2304 Old 02-17-2017, 12:09 PM
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If by Deep Color you mean 10 bit HDR then there is NO cable of any size that supports that. At best you can get 8 bit at 2160p60 RGB 444 but beyond that you're outside the range of HDMI 2.0a and only a handful of cables can handle even 8 bit.

Remember that run length is significant. My Monoprice Ultraslim 6ft cables came very close to passing RGB 444 but still had occasional problems. 3ft might have worked but I ended up swapping for 3ft CP cables. Once you get over about 10ft then you are correct, there are no slim cables that work at RGB 444. Over 20ft the ones that work resemble fire hoses (23 AWG).

Connectors aren't much of a problem, unless they have tails like some of the Monoprice HDMI wall plates. If you understand the physics of wave propagation the problem is that even slight changes in impedance around the connector cause some of the signal to be reflected rather than transmitted which means less signal gets to the receiver. The goal is that the transceivers and the cable should all have exactly the same impedance which is why it is best to use the same type of cable when connecting runs together.
Good to know. Never would have thought about impedence causing issues. Runs are short - cable box to pre-pro only 3ft. , but it can't do 4K anyway so doesn't matter. Transport to pre-pro, 5ft. Belden. At the time I got my 7 foot Beldens, the 6ft. ones hadn't been "officially certified" so I went 7 ft., really need about 6. Now more than ever. Perhaps I should just stick with the 6ft, no CP Belden cable, as thick as it is.

I hate HDMI.....
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post #1588 of 2304 Old 02-17-2017, 12:16 PM
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Will be interested to see if this works. My guess is that a single 30ft Series-1 would have been a better choice.
agreed, in my setup, I have the blackbird before my 35ft run
I had seen atleast one person saying their 30ft BJC wasn't passing 18gbps and there was some success with people using 15 foot MP to blackbird to 15 foot MP.

Also for me I will trial moving my AVR and run 15 foot from HTPC to AVR and 15 foot from AVR to projector if the blackbird doesn't work. I'd rather not since I will need new front left and centre speaker cable runs but it's no biggie.

Wish me luck.
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post #1589 of 2304 Old 02-17-2017, 12:32 PM
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'So, I'm I incorrect to conclude that there is no "thin" (really flexible) cable that truly supports [email protected], 4:4:4 chroma, and Deep Color?' - I'm not sure you could get anything thinner or more flexible than the Celerity Fibre cable - think black spaghetti!

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PS Of course it still has to have HDMI connectors on the end - though you can detach those and 'pull' the cable with just the micro HDMI connector on the ends.

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post #1590 of 2304 Old 02-17-2017, 02:17 PM
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'So, I'm I incorrect to conclude that there is no "thin" (really flexible) cable that truly supports [email protected], 4:4:4 chroma, and Deep Color?' - I'm not sure you could get anything thinner or more flexible than the Celerity Fibre cable - think black spaghetti!

Joe

PS Of course it still has to have HDMI connectors on the end - though you can detach those and 'pull' the cable with just the micro HDMI connector on the ends.
I think the problem with this is that it won't make it onto the connector end of my TV - just not enough space for the HMDI connector plus the length of the fibre connector. Otherwise I'd have a serious look! Thanks for the suggestion, could work elsewhere in my system!
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