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post #1591 of 2304 Old 02-17-2017, 05:00 PM
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HDMI cables that support [email protected], 4:4:4 chroma, and Deep Color?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigAmey View Post
Unfortunately the MP active cable will get you 4K HDR (YUV420) but no better. The highest resolution output from the PS4 Pro is 4K RGB (RGB 444) which is almost 18Gb/s and I don't know of any active cable that can do that. If you can live with 20ft go with the Monoprice Certified Premium cable, if you need longer get a Belden BJC Series-1.



As far as testing goes you will likely have issues with the receiver. Most Yamaha receivers default to Video Mode 2 which only allows YUV420. You'll get a message from your PS4 Pro that it only supports 2K HDR (1080p). To change the mode it will be something like this



https://www.manualslib.com/manual/98....html?page=122



Once you've changed mode the PS4 Pro will switch up to RGB 444 and if your cables can't handle it you'll get a black screen or in some cases a picture with occasional flashes of white and or sparkles in black areas. At that point you can also boot your PS4 Pro into safe mode and force the resolution to YUV 420 to get your picture back.


I can do 20ft but it's a little tight. I guess I'm better doing the MP CP cable rather than the MP Active.

Now the next question. Is it truly a noticeable difference between YUV 420 and RGB 444?

[edit] just realized the TV I'm getting (Samsung 65KS800D) has a 9ft One Connect box so that means I can do 10ft runs to that. Now I just need to decide if I should route everything through the AVR or direct to the TV. I guess that's a different thread.

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post #1592 of 2304 Old 02-18-2017, 12:00 PM
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Jonas2 - out of curiosity I stuck a short, relatively flexible HDMI F>M cable on the TV end of the Celerity cable - all working fine so far, will run it for another day or two.



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post #1593 of 2304 Old 02-18-2017, 03:57 PM
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I posted a few weeks ago on this thread and linked 2 cables that output 4:4:4 @ 60hz with HDR at 50ft lengths. I don't know why people are saying there aren't cables possible of doing this over 15ft. If you need cables, try those out. The Fiber Optic one has worked flawlessly for me the past month.
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post #1594 of 2304 Old 02-18-2017, 05:51 PM
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I have a Kabeldirekt 10m cable that does not work in deep color mode on my LG OLED at 60Hz (Only 30). I tried an old 5 meter 1.4 cable and it works at 60Hz 4:4:4 full RGB 2160p. But only in 8bit. Ideally I need a 20 foot cable that works. What a pain this all is.

Has anyone tried one of those cheap repeaters? This one is available on amazon.de for 30 euros. It doesn't seem to require a power connector?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/d/5fn/Feinte...ite/B01HDPGJ5Y

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post #1595 of 2304 Old 02-19-2017, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Emery View Post
I have a Kabeldirekt 10m cable that does not work in deep color mode on my LG OLED at 60Hz (Only 30). I tried an old 5 meter 1.4 cable and it works at 60Hz 4:4:4 full RGB 2160p. But only in 8bit. Ideally I need a 20 foot cable that works. What a pain this all is.
Are you trying to do 2160p60 4:4:4 10bit on your LG? If so, the answer is simple, you can't....
HDMI 2.0 does not support 2160p60 4:4:4 10bit, because that surpasses it's bandwidth... you can to 18gbps max which is 2160p60 4:4:4 8bit...

if this is just about getting 2160p60 4:4:4 8bit over 10m, send back the KabelDirekt cable and order another one, you just happened to get a bad one...
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post #1596 of 2304 Old 02-19-2017, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Q-the-STORM View Post
Are you trying to do 2160p60 4:4:4 10bit on your LG? If so, the answer is simple, you can't....
HDMI 2.0 does not support 2160p60 4:4:4 10bit, because that surpasses it's bandwidth... you can to 18gbps max which is 2160p60 4:4:4 8bit...

if this is just about getting 2160p60 4:4:4 8bit over 10m, send back the KabelDirekt cable and order another one, you just happened to get a bad one...
I can't even get 10 bit 4:2:0 @ 60Hz when my LG TV is set to deep color mode. I was trying to get HDR working in a PC came but the game does not recognize HDR being available. I can get 10 bit 4:2:2 @ 60Hz on the other non-HDMI 2.0 cable but again it does not recognize HDR being available on the TV. I am using an AMD Radeon RX 480 btw. I guess I should try returning the cable for a 7.5m one to see if it makes a difference.
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post #1597 of 2304 Old 02-20-2017, 12:14 AM
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Just a note. Everyone is discussing if a long cable of 20-25 feet can pass 4:4:4 full RGB @ 60Hz. My 10m Kabeldirekt cable can. In 8 bit only. However what it fails on is when my LG OLED TV is set to Deep Color mode for 10 bit support. When the HDMI on the TV is set to Deep Color I can only get 30Hz with 10 bit enabled. What I require is 60Hz 10bit 4:2:0 to run games such as Resident Evil 7. HDMI 2.0b supports this. But my KD doesn't. My old 5m 1.4 cable does seem to support that however but RE7 does not seem to recognize the connected display as being HDR capable.
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post #1598 of 2304 Old 02-20-2017, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Emery View Post
Just a note. Everyone is discussing if a long cable of 20-25 feet can pass 4:4:4 full RGB @ 60Hz. My 10m Kabeldirekt cable can. In 8 bit only. However what it fails on is when my LG OLED TV is set to Deep Color mode for 10 bit support. When the HDMI on the TV is set to Deep Color I can only get 30Hz with 10 bit enabled. What I require is 60Hz 10bit 4:2:0 to run games such as Resident Evil 7. HDMI 2.0b supports this. But my KD doesn't. My old 5m 1.4 cable does seem to support that however but RE7 does not seem to recognize the connected display as being HDR capable.
This is very very strange... The cable itself doesn't know if the signal is 4:4:4 or 10bit or whatever, it doesn't matter what data is transmitted, bandwidth is what matters...
so if you can transmit 2160p60 4:4:4 8bit which is 18gbps, your cable should be able to transmit anything in HDMI 2.0 spec... 2160p60 4:2:0 10bit is only 11gbps, your cable should have no problem with that... I think this is more a GPU issue than a cable issue... because there's no way a cable fails on 2160p60 4:2:0 10bit and doesn't fail on 2160p60 4:4:4 8bit...

maybe try some other things, you should be able to do anything up to 2160p60 4:2:2 12bit... so maybe give 4:2:0 12bit and 4:2:2 12bit a try... could be that your GPU screws up at 2160p60 4:2:0 10bit...
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post #1599 of 2304 Old 02-20-2017, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Emery View Post
JMy old 5m 1.4 cable does seem to support that however but RE7 does not seem to recognize the connected display as being HDR capable.
No such thing as an HDMI 1.4 cable. The cable may have been tested and certified for HDMI 1.4 hardware protocols but it's just a data pipe. It was probably a well made passive HDMI cable. HDMI cables are either passive or active. There isn't supposed to be any number designation associated with the cable per HDMI.org. Even tho cable mfrs and resellers are very misleading with their cable descriptions.
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post #1600 of 2304 Old 02-20-2017, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Fernand View Post
Jonas2 - out of curiosity I stuck a short, relatively flexible HDMI F>M cable on the TV end of the Celerity cable - all working fine so far, will run it for another day or two.
Great suggestion! Now that I might be able to pull off!

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post #1601 of 2304 Old 02-20-2017, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Q-the-STORM View Post
This is very very strange... The cable itself doesn't know if the signal is 4:4:4 or 10bit or whatever, it doesn't matter what data is transmitted, bandwidth is what matters...
so if you can transmit 2160p60 4:4:4 8bit which is 18gbps, your cable should be able to transmit anything in HDMI 2.0 spec... 2160p60 4:2:0 10bit is only 11gbps, your cable should have no problem with that... I think this is more a GPU issue than a cable issue... because there's no way a cable fails on 2160p60 4:2:0 10bit and doesn't fail on 2160p60 4:4:4 8bit...

maybe try some other things, you should be able to do anything up to 2160p60 4:2:2 12bit... so maybe give 4:2:0 12bit and 4:2:2 12bit a try... could be that your GPU screws up at 2160p60 4:2:0 10bit...
Agreed, if the cable doesn't support YUV420 HDR you won't get a picture. I've never seen a cable prevent the transceivers from switching modes, I think that negotiation happens at a very low bandwidth that just about any cable can support. Even when I was testing RGB444, every cable I tried *attempted* to switch to that mode, just that most of them failed miserably once they did and they didn't switch back at that point, I just got a black screen or flickering picture. Even the PS4 Pro automatically switched up to RGB444 when the receiver indicated it could support that mode, and I had to safe-boot the PS4 Pro to force it back to YUV420.

Something is wrong with your settings, this has nothing to do with cable bandwidth.

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post #1602 of 2304 Old 02-20-2017, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstark18 View Post
I can do 20ft but it's a little tight. I guess I'm better doing the MP CP cable rather than the MP Active.

Now the next question. Is it truly a noticeable difference between YUV 420 and RGB 444?

[edit] just realized the TV I'm getting (Samsung 65KS800D) has a 9ft One Connect box so that means I can do 10ft runs to that. Now I just need to decide if I should route everything through the AVR or direct to the TV. I guess that's a different thread.
1. Yes the MP CP cables can handle much higher bandwidth than their active cables.

2. No, not really. At least at normal viewing distance on my 65" OLED I don't see any difference at all. It might be noticeable at 1080p but at 4K I'd be very surprised if anyone can see that at 10ft.

3. Connect devices which support HDMI CEC to the AVR, connect everything else to the TV directly. Notable holdouts for HDMI CEC are the Xfinity X1 and the Wii U, so I have those on HDMI 1 and 3 and have the receiver connected to HDMI 2.

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post #1603 of 2304 Old 02-21-2017, 01:20 AM
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Considering this is a 22GB FIBER OPTIC/HYBRID CABLE 4KX2K/60HZ supported cable, can we assume that it will also support HDR?

66FT ULTRA HIGH SPEED HDMI 22GB FIBER OPTIC/HYBRID CABLE 4KX2K/60HZ


Some manufacturer indicates HDR with their product and some of them not. So, how can we understand that?
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HDMI cable needed for a long run

I have my A/V components in a rack about 60' away from my main TV. I am currently using a 75' MonoPrice Slim Run AV Fiber Optic HDMI cable to connect my receiver and TV which works great except it does not support ARC. Therefore, I am looking for a different HDMI cable which can support at least the following:

• UHD/4K Support: 4096x2160 or 3840x2160 24/25/30Hz at 4:4:4 and 50/60Hz at 4:4:4
• Deep color support for UHD/4K 24/25/30Hz 4:4:4/10 bits or 50/60Hz 4:2:0/10 bit
• HDR10
• HDCP 2.2
• ARC – with support for all digital audio formats (e.g., Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby Atmos and DTS-HD Master Audio)

It seems like the Celerity HDMI cable supports some of these things but does not get into the specific details in the spec sheet on their website. When I inquired with customer support they said that they support all of the above. Given the cost of this HDMI cable, I am wary to just blindly believe the guy answering emails (especially when he just said yes we support all of that). Can anyone here validate that they have achieved some of the above with the Celerity cable?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserion View Post
Considering this is a 22GB FIBER OPTIC/HYBRID CABLE 4KX2K/60HZ supported cable, can we assume that it will also support HDR?

66FT ULTRA HIGH SPEED HDMI 22GB FIBER OPTIC/HYBRID CABLE 4KX2K/60HZ


Some manufacturer indicates HDR with their product and some of them not. So, how can we understand that?
You can't. They state the cable is certified by Murvideo and Quantum but neither one of those use standardized protocols such as the one that HDMI.org has so the consumer has not way of knowing how the testing is performed and how extensive (random picks at random lengths from the production line or each cable tested individually). An active copper-based cable can push 4k @60Hz under certain circumstances but it's the color space that's the issue.
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post #1606 of 2304 Old 02-21-2017, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warnija View Post
I have my A/V components in a rack about 60' away from my main TV. I am currently using a 75' MonoPrice Slim Run AV Fiber Optic HDMI cable to connect my receiver and TV which works great except it does not support ARC. Therefore, I am looking for a different HDMI cable which can support at least the following:

• UHD/4K Support: 4096x2160 or 3840x2160 24/25/30Hz at 4:4:4 and 50/60Hz at 4:4:4
• Deep color support for UHD/4K 24/25/30Hz 4:4:4/10 bits or 50/60Hz 4:2:0/10 bit
• HDR10
• HDCP 2.2
• ARC – with support for all digital audio formats (e.g., Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby Atmos and DTS-HD Master Audio)

It seems like the Celerity HDMI cable supports some of these things but does not get into the specific details in the spec sheet on their website. When I inquired with customer support they said that they support all of the above. Given the cost of this HDMI cable, I am wary to just blindly believe the guy answering emails (especially when he just said yes we support all of that). Can anyone here validate that they have achieved some of the above with the Celerity cable?
ARC currently only supports 5.1 audio and Atmos. HD audio will not be possible until the introduction of HDMI 2.0, and then you will more than likely be limited to a "special cable" for HDMI 2.0 that reportedly has a max distance of about 6' - 10'. 75' is going to be tough for any cable but your best bet would probably be the Celerity cable. As long as you run your cable(s) in a conduit if this is an in-wall installation you should have no problem swapping cable if you need to (which you probably will eventually).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
You can't. They state the cable is certified by Murvideo and Quantum but neither one of those use standardized protocols such as the one that HDMI.org has so the consumer has not way of knowing how the testing is performed and how extensive (random picks at random lengths from the production line or each cable tested individually). An active copper-based cable can push 4k @60Hz under certain circumstances but it's the color space that's the issue.
Thanks for your reply. Then i should ask again, how can i reach the infotmation that specifically this cable will support HDR or not? Is the only the way asking to the manufacturer?
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Originally Posted by Laserion View Post
Thanks for your reply. Then i should ask again, how can i reach the infotmation that specifically this cable will support HDR or not? Is the only the way asking to the manufacturer?
That would seem reasonable. The mfr should spec that out, and put that in writing. If they don't, then it appears that they are misleading you on purpose just to make a sale. These cables are not cheap. To be fair to Celerity, there are some who have successfully according to them, pushed 4k, 4:4:4 @60hz over distances longer than 25'. All you do is try. There are no guarantees.
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post #1609 of 2304 Old 02-21-2017, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
ARC currently only supports 5.1 audio and Atmos. HD audio will not be possible until the introduction of HDMI 2.0, and then you will more than likely be limited to a "special cable" for HDMI 2.0 that reportedly has a max distance of about 6' - 10'. 75' is going to be tough for any cable but your best bet would probably be the Celerity cable. As long as you run your cable(s) in a conduit if this is an in-wall installation you should have no problem swapping cable if you need to (which you probably will eventually).

i believe you mean HDMI 2.1, not 2.0. HDMI 2.1 is what will be needed for HD audio over ARC.

Last edited by LRS3; 02-21-2017 at 11:04 AM. Reason: typo
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Originally Posted by LRS3 View Post
i believe you mean HDMI 2.1, not 2.0. HDMI 2.1 is what will be needed for HD audio over ARC.
You are correct. Typing error . Thanks for catching that.
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post #1611 of 2304 Old 02-23-2017, 06:20 AM
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Going back and forth with the technician at Celerity... He mentioned he would replace the cable that was defective with in one year of purchase. I'm curious if I were to replace my 50 foot model with a 40 Foot model, would I lose the sparkles. It probably can't get worse, right?

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Originally Posted by Laserion View Post
Thanks for your reply. Then i should ask again, how can i reach the infotmation that specifically this cable will support HDR or not? Is the only the way asking to the manufacturer?
Either ask the mfr for a certificate of compliance or a spec sheet on the cable you are interested in, or maybe somebody here has purchased the same cable and has a way to verify HDR or not.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jugsta View Post
Going back and forth with the technician at Celerity... He mentioned he would replace the cable that was defective with in one year of purchase. I'm curious if I were to replace my 50 foot model with a 40 Foot model, would I lose the sparkles. It probably can't get worse, right?
It can always get worse If the sparkles aren't real bad at 50', 40' might work well. Try it.
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post #1614 of 2304 Old 02-23-2017, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jugsta View Post
Going back and forth with the technician at Celerity... He mentioned he would replace the cable that was defective with in one year of purchase. I'm curious if I were to replace my 50 foot model with a 40 Foot model, would I lose the sparkles. It probably can't get worse, right?
I have a 40-foot Celerity cable between my Denon 7200 AVR and Sony 940D TV, and it works well. It does seem to take a little longer to successfully complete the HDMI handshake than my previous cable, but once the handshake is established the connection remains rock solid.

I will say that when I first got the Celerity cable, I had some pretty significant problems when using my Cisco cable box. (Yeah we all know that cable boxes often have poor HDMI handshake performance.) I discussed the issue with Celerity's tech support, and they sent me new transmitter and receiver ends for the Celerity cable. As I recall, the replacements had little daubs of green paint on them, so I'm assuming they had been checked out somehow by Celerity. In any case, performance was significantly improved with the new transmitter/receiver ends. I'm a bit surprised Celerity didn't raise the transmitter/receiver ends when you discussed matters with them.
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Originally Posted by LRS3 View Post
I have a 40-foot Celerity cable between my Denon 7200 AVR and Sony 940D TV, and it works well. It does seem to take a little longer to successfully complete the HDMI handshake than my previous cable, but once the handshake is established the connection remains rock solid.

I will say that when I first got the Celerity cable, I had some pretty significant problems when using my Cisco cable box. (Yeah we all know that cable boxes often have poor HDMI handshake performance.) I discussed the issue with Celerity's tech support, and they sent me new transmitter and receiver ends for the Celerity cable. As I recall, the replacements had little daubs of green paint on them, so I'm assuming they had been checked out somehow by Celerity. In any case, performance was significantly improved with the new transmitter/receiver ends. I'm a bit surprised Celerity didn't raise the transmitter/receiver ends when you discussed matters with them.
I don't have a solid case to support this, but I'm worried the Pioneer SC-95 I have may be a contributor (along with the distance) to the problem. I guess we'll see. I still need to test the PS4 Pro to TV directly. That won't tell me much and it won't fix anything- it will just give another opportunity to shoot another mean look at the Pioneer (does not play nice on my network).

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any cable with HDMI premium certified will support that spec
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post #1617 of 2304 Old 02-23-2017, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by AVmaster319 View Post
any cable with HDMI premium certified will support that spec
If you're referring to just ARC (5.1 audio), sure. But HD Audio over ARC is not possible until HDMI 2.1, and then the cables will be the special "48Gbps" cable. 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz is also touch and go at 40' - 50' regardless of mfr claims.
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post #1618 of 2304 Old 02-25-2017, 02:26 PM
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[QUOTE=Andrewm1;50843353]
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Will be interested to see if this works. My guess is that a single 30ft Series-1 would have been a better choice.
agreed, in my setup, I have the blackbird before my 35ft run
I can confirm my setup of two BJC 15 foot cables joined by a mono price blackbird repeater passes 4K 60hz 8 bit 4:4:4 from my htpc with gtx 1060 and from my onkyo rz1100.

Im not sure why you guys believe the single cable would have been better? Since the 15 foot cables are also 23.5awg same as the 30 foot ones with a repeater in the middle surely that has to be more effective.
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post #1619 of 2304 Old 02-25-2017, 04:10 PM
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[quote=Andrewm1;51055993]
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I can confirm my setup of two BJC 15 foot cables joined by a mono price blackbird repeater passes 4K 60hz 8 bit 4:4:4 from my htpc with gtx 1060 and from my onkyo rz1100.

Im not sure why you guys believe the single cable would have been better? Since the 15 foot cables are also 23.5awg same as the 30 foot ones with a repeater in the middle surely that has to be more effective.
Generally speaking, a single cable without any "interruptions" is more reliable in a lot of cases and most would prefer to use single cables instead of having extra hardware to keep the look clean and aesthetically pleasing. I'm glad to hear that using the Blackbird repeater worked in your situation because there are some who haven't been so lucky with the Blackbirds.
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post #1620 of 2304 Old 03-05-2017, 02:04 PM
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here is an article answer/not answering questions about hdmi 2.1

http://www.cepro.com/article/prepare...aler_questions
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