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post #1 of 16 Old 09-27-2015, 05:18 PM - Thread Starter
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HDMI- want to make sure I do it right

Hi all, the setup will be blu-ray player & some media device like Roku or Apple TV to projector.
The Run is about 35ft. I've read about a lot of redmere cables failing- so hopefully this will work. I did run conduit in-ceiling too.

Questions:
1) Seems there are several types of Redmere HMI cables that mono price has. Cabernet, slim etc. not sure which one I should use.
2) Can I connect to receiver first and then to projector- or is directly into projector better.
3) I vaguely understand HDMI to cat6. would this be the best option? If so I would have to install two extender plates. one near blu-ray player and one on the ceiling next to projector> would like to avoid this if possible since everything is sheet rocked already.

thanks- hopefully you can clear up these questions for me.
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post #2 of 16 Old 09-27-2015, 05:33 PM
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CAT-6 -> HDMI requires active termination which is usually HDBT. Works very well but can be expensive. I use Redmere cables, even though not as long of a run as yours, and have never had any issues.

Redmere is source to sink (tv). Keep in mind that Redmere cables are uni-directional, source to sink, so if you install them backwards you won't damage anything but you won't get any a/v either. I haven't heard of that many Redmere cables failing so that's a bit surprising. They do have a chipset in the sink end so, like any other electronic device they can fail. Installing a conduit was a good idea. It makes cable pull/repair so much easier.

Some Redmere cables are stated to run at 18Gbps. Whether that is for the specific length of cable you purchase and how how spec is determined is up to speculation. I haven't looked at Redmere cable specs in quite a while so I'm not familiar with the "Cabernet" brand and what it supposedly offers over other brands.
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post #3 of 16 Old 09-28-2015, 05:15 AM - Thread Starter
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thanks otto for the info. its not that I've read about a lot of redmere failing but here and there I have, and then started reading about HDMI to cat6 and went to moonrise site and saw the different versions of HDMI with redeemer, then the confusion started. excuse my ignorance but not sure what a HDBT is. I thought I would only need to get two extenders to accomplish this. but no clue which ones to get if I went this route. Maybe just get several types of HDMI in place and call it a day?
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post #4 of 16 Old 09-28-2015, 07:05 AM
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HDBT is HDBaseT. You can find it at hdbaset.org. It's a technology for extending the range of HDMI and minimizing the number of cables in the wall by utilizing Cat6 cable and active termination. I've used it successfully in my basement but it is expensive. Currently, it's the only way to get 4K video anywhere greater than 15' from the source. 25' could work with superior HDMI cables but I wouldn't recommend trying it without having conduit in the walls and running Cat6 beside it just in case.

That said, I learned the hard way that HDBaseT does not support audio return channel features needed by all Smart TV apps. If you choose HDBaseT, you will need to plan for TosLink audio return or buy the an HDBaseT extender that supports ARC. (See my other post in this forum as there's only one and it's $899). Atlona and other providers of HDBaseT products support 4K @60Hz 4:2:0 over HDBaseT. That's the current limit of the technology today. 60Hz 4:4:4 10 or 12 bit is out of reach of the technology though I believe there are companies working on the extenders to support the 18Gbs HDMI 2.0 spec. As far as I am aware, HDMI 1.4a 10.2 Gbs is where HDBaseT support ends but this is good enough for almost all TVs sub $4,000 today.

Hope that helps.
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post #5 of 16 Old 09-28-2015, 08:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Kressilac View Post
HDBT is HDBaseT. You can find it at hdbaset.org. It's a technology for extending the range of HDMI and minimizing the number of cables in the wall by utilizing Cat6 cable and active termination. I've used it successfully in my basement but it is expensive. Currently, it's the only way to get 4K video anywhere greater than 15' from the source. 25' could work with superior HDMI cables but I wouldn't recommend trying it without having conduit in the walls and running Cat6 beside it just in case.

That said, I learned the hard way that HDBaseT does not support audio return channel features needed by all Smart TV apps. If you choose HDBaseT, you will need to plan for TosLink audio return or buy the an HDBaseT extender that supports ARC. (See my other post in this forum as there's only one and it's $899). Atlona and other providers of HDBaseT products support 4K @60Hz 4:2:0 over HDBaseT. That's the current limit of the technology today. 60Hz 4:4:4 10 or 12 bit is out of reach of the technology though I believe there are companies working on the extenders to support the 18Gbs HDMI 2.0 spec. As far as I am aware, HDMI 1.4a 10.2 Gbs is where HDBaseT support ends but this is good enough for almost all TVs sub $4,000 today.

Hope that helps.
yes, very helpful. lots of good info, thanks. so much to learn and keep up with these days, with 4K etc. I guess just a simple HDMI will hopefully be all I need for now. So when 4K projectors become the norm, hopefully there will be an HDMI cable produced for that. This hobby can be complicated sometimes
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post #6 of 16 Old 09-28-2015, 08:34 AM
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How accessible will the cable run be? 35' should be no problem for the redmere cables. I've had great luck with 20-40' runs. Sure, there may be the potential to fail, but a LOT of the bad reviews I've seen are from people who didn't hook them up in the right direction.

For anything longer than 40-50', than yeah, I'd definitely go HDBaseT. For 20-40', I'd be willing to take the chance and try out the cables first. Those Cabernet cables from MP are really nice, FWIW, but I've had good luck with their cheaper active cables as well.
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post #7 of 16 Old 09-28-2015, 12:19 PM
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I would agree with Montucky. Just get the Redmere cable and see how it works. I would lay it out on the floor or what ever before doing a conduit crawl just in case they don't work. A little clutter during testing is easier to deal with than a cable pull, even with a conduit. Just be careful pulling the Redmere if the 25'+ cables are thin. If you do pull Redmere thru the conduit, I'd pull a solid core CAT-6/7 cable as well just in case you decide you need it in the future (don't forget to add a little service loop at both ends). Even if you don't use it for a/v you can install a CAT-6 punchdown Keystone jack to extend an ethernet connection. I did that from the router to my HTS so I don't have to depend on WiFi for anything.

And yes, HD BaseT does not currently support ARC. However, the only advantage of ARC is the elimination of an optical cable. You can not get HD audio (DTS-MA, Dolby HD Audio, etc) with ARC. It is limited to 5.1 just like optical.

Last edited by Otto Pylot; 09-28-2015 at 12:22 PM.
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post #8 of 16 Old 09-28-2015, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montucky View Post
How accessible will the cable run be? 35' should be no problem for the redmere cables. I've had great luck with 20-40' runs. Sure, there may be the potential to fail, but a LOT of the bad reviews I've seen are from people who didn't hook them up in the right direction.

For anything longer than 40-50', than yeah, I'd definitely go HDBaseT. For 20-40', I'd be willing to take the chance and try out the cables first. Those Cabernet cables from MP are really nice, FWIW, but I've had good luck with their cheaper active cables as well.
I did install conduit in the ceiling- still would need to be snaked through- but accessible. At least I did that right! yes it seems there are more good reviews than bad- but just wanted to hear from people on the site than some random review. thanks for your advice, appreciate it
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post #9 of 16 Old 09-28-2015, 04:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
I would agree with Montucky. Just get the Redmere cable and see how it works. I would lay it out on the floor or what ever before doing a conduit crawl just in case they don't work. A little clutter during testing is easier to deal with than a cable pull, even with a conduit. Just be careful pulling the Redmere if the 25'+ cables are thin. If you do pull Redmere thru the conduit, I'd pull a solid core CAT-6/7 cable as well just in case you decide you need it in the future (don't forget to add a little service loop at both ends). Even if you don't use it for a/v you can install a CAT-6 punchdown Keystone jack to extend an ethernet connection. I did that from the router to my HTS so I don't have to depend on WiFi for anything.

And yes, HD BaseT does not currently support ARC. However, the only advantage of ARC is the elimination of an optical cable. You can not get HD audio (DTS-MA, Dolby HD Audio, etc) with ARC. It is limited to 5.1 just like optical.
I will try the red mere first. also you are saying pull in some cat6 too. I could do that. I have some extra lying around from mono price. As for the HD baseT. It seems a little above my head right now. still learning. But I appreciate all the info anyways. good to know
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post #10 of 16 Old 09-28-2015, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by thetman View Post
I will try the red mere first. also you are saying pull in some cat6 too. I could do that. I have some extra lying around from mono price. As for the HD baseT. It seems a little above my head right now. still learning. But I appreciate all the info anyways. good to know
If you're going to pull an HDMI cable thru a conduit I would just go ahead and pull a solid core CAT-6 as well and just gently loop it at both ends (service loop) and tuck it inside the wall. Cable specs will change and current HDMI cable may just not cut it. If you've already got a solid core CAT-6/7 there, you're all set. If fact, some pull two cables. One for extended ethernet (as I did) and one extra for future use. It's up to you. If I'm crawling around the attic fishing cable down a conduit I only want to do that once.
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post #11 of 16 Old 09-29-2015, 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
If you're going to pull an HDMI cable thru a conduit I would just go ahead and pull a solid core CAT-6 as well and just gently loop it at both ends (service loop) and tuck it inside the wall. Cable specs will change and current HDMI cable may just not cut it. If you've already got a solid core CAT-6/7 there, you're all set. If fact, some pull two cables. One for extended ethernet (as I did) and one extra for future use. It's up to you. If I'm crawling around the attic fishing cable down a conduit I only want to do that once.
Agreed on the multiple runs. As a general rule, I always pull at least 2 Cat6/7 cables to any location where I am going to run Ethernet. You can punch them down in some central location and "activate" them by using patch cables into your switch/router. That aside, when I ran HDBaseT, I did not use keystone jacks. I terminated the cables like a patch cable and ran them directly between the extenders in the same way that most will suggest that you do not terminate the HDMI cables into keystone jacks but instead run them directly from AV to TV and source to AV.
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post #12 of 16 Old 09-29-2015, 09:15 AM
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I just used the Keystone jacks so I could run ethernet cabling from the wall-plate to a gigabit switch for the extended ethernet connection because I was running ethernet to my devices for streaming instead of relying on WiFi.
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post #13 of 16 Old 09-30-2015, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by thetman View Post
Hi all, the setup will be blu-ray player & some media device like Roku or Apple TV to projector.
The Run is about 35ft. I've read about a lot of redmere cables failing- so hopefully this will work. I did run conduit in-ceiling too.

Questions:
1) Seems there are several types of Redmere HMI cables that mono price has. Cabernet, slim etc. not sure which one I should use.
2) Can I connect to receiver first and then to projector- or is directly into projector better.
3) I vaguely understand HDMI to cat6. would this be the best option? If so I would have to install two extender plates. one near blu-ray player and one on the ceiling next to projector> would like to avoid this if possible since everything is sheet rocked already.

thanks- hopefully you can clear up these questions for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kressilac View Post
Agreed on the multiple runs. As a general rule, I always pull at least 2 Cat6/7 cables to any location where I am going to run Ethernet. You can punch them down in some central location and "activate" them by using patch cables into your switch/router. That aside, when I ran HDBaseT, I did not use keystone jacks. I terminated the cables like a patch cable and ran them directly between the extenders in the same way that most will suggest that you do not terminate the HDMI cables into keystone jacks but instead run them directly from AV to TV and source to AV.
The best thing you can do to "future proof" is to install conduit. Which you did, good boy! As far as pulling additional cable that you "might need" I'm not so sure. I pulled two cat5e and two RG-6 about 15 years ago. That wiring, to about 20 locations has arguably becoming obsolete. I can pull it out and replace with HDMI or better CAT but can't yet stomach the loss. So my advice is to run the cables you need today. Run a cord to pull "the next great thing" when it arrives and you need it. Running cable based on today's standards because you "might need it" is a waste of money in my opinion.

As to Redmere cables, I have one at 20 or 25’, don’t remember the length at the moment, it works. But I also have a "high quality" 50' HDMI cable, I bought this: Mediabridge ULTRA Series HDMI Cable (50 Feet) - High-Speed Supports 4K, Ethernet, 3D and Audio Return [Newest Standard]
It didn’t cost an arm and a leg. The afore mentioned cable carries the signal just fine to a remote TV. I think you should try a good HDMI cable first. 35' is not that far. HDMI cables are much less expensive than HDBT.

Last edited by nowandthen; 10-01-2015 at 08:39 PM. Reason: Corrected don't for didn't after HDMI cable link. My mother would not be happy with my poor grammer. :)
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post #14 of 16 Old 10-01-2015, 04:47 AM - Thread Starter
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The best thing you can do to "future proof" is to install conduit. Which you did, good boy! As far as pulling additional cable that you "might need" I'm not so sure. I pulled two cat5e and two RG-6 about 15 years ago. That wiring, to about 20 locations has arguably becoming obsolete. I can pull it out and replace with HDMI or better CAT but can't yet stomach the loss. So my advice is to run the cables you need today. Run a cord to pull "the next great thing" when it arrives and you need it. Running cable based on today's standards because you "might need it" is a waste of money in my opinion.

As to Redmere cables, I have one at 20 or 25’, don’t remember the length at the moment, it works. But I also have a "high quality" 50' HDMI cable, I bought this: Mediabridge ULTRA Series HDMI Cable (50 Feet) - High-Speed Supports 4K, Ethernet, 3D and Audio Return [Newest Standard]
It don’t cost an arm and a leg. The afore mentioned cable carries the signal just fine to a remote TV. I think you should try a good HDMI cable first. 35' is not that far. HDMI cables are much less expensive than HDBT.
yes, had conduit installed, and I am going to have several cat6 pulled too. I know what you mean about things becoming obsolete. but I don't think cat5E is obsolete just yet. hope not- have a bunch in different locations of the house and for outside cameras. Not sure how I would fix all that now. thanks for the HDMI link I'll check it out. tough to keep up with newer technology, almost impossible really.
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post #15 of 16 Old 10-01-2015, 02:40 PM
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I forget to mention installing a pull-string as well but that's always a good idea, even if you don't want to add an extra cable now.
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post #16 of 16 Old 10-07-2015, 04:42 PM - Thread Starter
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I forget to mention installing a pull-string as well but that's always a good idea, even if you don't want to add an extra cable now.
yes- when electrician comes back I'll make sure of it. I also plan on running a second HDMI just incase once craps out. you never know. Now its on to subwoofer cables. more hiding, more conduit etc. fun never ends.
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