AudioQuest HDMI's - Worth It? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 86 Old 11-17-2017, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timjohnson1717 View Post
I can buy a $90 receptacle and a $200 power cord? Is that what my system has been missing all this time???

One question though, shouldn't I also upgrade the $3 worth of copper feeding that outlet? What about the $5 breaker, and why not go for broke, call up the power company and tell them I need solid silver conductors from the substation ran to the house. But that doesn't matter right? Its that last 3 feet that makes or breaks it. The thousands of feet before it have absolutely no effect whatsoever?

Whoever is spending money on power cords is stupid. Oh, and hdmi cables too. We don't live in an analog world anymore guys.
"Whoever is spending money on power cords is stupid. Oh, and hdmi cables too. We don't live in an analog world anymore guys."

Wow, I should have gotten into the power cord business. $170 for a six foot power cord! That’s even better than those gas injected speaker cables they sell for $50. Went to Amazon to see the write-ups and they are getting 4 to 5 stars! Maybe you can fool people with a high priced HDMI cable, but a power cord? It’s just carrying line voltage to the equipment.

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post #32 of 86 Old 11-18-2017, 03:54 PM
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I will need an 10-15 meter (35 feet) cable for 4k blurays. Do I have to buy fiber cable or other one? Thanks for help
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post #33 of 86 Old 11-18-2017, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by cemo62 View Post
I will need an 10-15 meter (35 feet) cable for 4k blurays. Do I have to buy fiber cable or other one? Thanks for help
You've been answered in the other forum you posted to. It's best to keep your posts to one forum so the replies can be consistent, make sense, and searching is easy for others.
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post #34 of 86 Old 11-29-2017, 07:18 PM
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I have an older AudioQuest Cinnamon hdmi cable, and would like know if its 18Gbps capable. The cord markings state:
1080P-4K Ultra HD-3D
E148114-D(UL) 30 AWG CMG

Have a newer Cinnamon, but it has a fabric mesh cover.
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post #35 of 86 Old 11-29-2017, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by cdnscg View Post
I have an older AudioQuest Cinnamon hdmi cable, and would like know if its 18Gbps capable. The cord markings state:
1080P-4K Ultra HD-3D
E148114-D(UL) 30 AWG CMG

Have a newer Cinnamon, but it has a fabric mesh cover.
Probably not. At least not certified by an ATC to deliver a consistent 18Gbps. The same for the Cinnamon. Both overpriced. 30AWG is a pretty thin cable. What is your cable run distance?
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post #36 of 86 Old 11-30-2017, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
Probably not. At least not certified by an ATC to deliver a consistent 18Gbps. The same for the Cinnamon. Both overpriced. 30AWG is a pretty thin cable. What is your cable run distance?
This cable is 4ft which is joined by a coupler to a 25' AudioQuest Chocolate hdmi cable

According to the AudioQuest website, the new 'mesh' wound Cinnamon are guaranteed 18Gbps+.

Last edited by cdnscg; 11-30-2017 at 07:09 AM.
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post #37 of 86 Old 11-30-2017, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by cdnscg View Post
This cable is 4ft which is joined by a coupler to a 25' AudioQuest Chocolate hdmi cable

According to the AudioQuest website, the new 'mesh' wound Cinnamon are guaranteed 18Gbps+.
You have a total of 29' for a cable run, with a coupler in-between. The most reliable connection is a single cable run with nothing in-between. Couplers can and do work but 4k HDR is a really touchy beast. The setup more than likely won't work for HDMI 2.1 once the chipsets are sent to the device mfrs. 1080p would be no problem and possibly just 4k. AudioQuest cables are way overpriced for what you get and they are as good, if not better, than Monster when is comes to market-speak. 18Gbps+? What's "+" mean? 18.1, 19, 25? Ask them for a Certificate of Compliance for the cable you purchased and ask them how they verify those claims. A standardized certification protocol? What's the wire gauge? I really hope it works reliably for you.
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post #38 of 86 Old 11-30-2017, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
You have a total of 29' for a cable run, with a coupler in-between. The most reliable connection is a single cable run with nothing in-between. Couplers can and do work but 4k HDR is a really touchy beast. The setup more than likely won't work for HDMI 2.1 once the chipsets are sent to the device mfrs. 1080p would be no problem and possibly just 4k. AudioQuest cables are way overpriced for what you get and they are as good, if not better, than Monster when is comes to market-speak. 18Gbps+? What's "+" mean? 18.1, 19, 25? Ask them for a Certificate of Compliance for the cable you purchased and ask them how they verify those claims. A standardized certification protocol? What's the wire gauge? I really hope it works reliably for you.
Don't get me wrong, the cable run works and is sending 4K from my X800 through an avr to my 300ES 4K pj. I read in the 500ES pj thread that someone had improved their picture with "certified" cables. I was just checking here to see if I had such cables, and was getting the best picture I can. After reading this thread, there appears to be some option that if the cables are passing the 4K signal, then "better" cables won't make a difference. All pretty headie stuff
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post #39 of 86 Old 11-30-2017, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by cdnscg View Post
Don't get me wrong, the cable run works and is sending 4K from my X800 through an avr to my 300ES 4K pj. I read in the 500ES pj thread that someone had improved their picture with "certified" cables. I was just checking here to see if I had such cables, and was getting the best picture I can. After reading this thread, there appears to be some option that if the cables are passing the 4K signal, then "better" cables won't make a difference. All pretty headie stuff
There has been lots of discussion about overpriced cables improving PQ and AQ. Not true. The signal is digital so you either get it or not. If there are sparkles or drop outs then that's either a cable issue (cheaply made), a handshake issue, or an HDMI chipset issue. The cable is just a data pipe. It can not improve the color space or add information that is not in the original data stream. Folks who say their pq has been improved are just fooling themselves trying to justify the cost of the cable. Standardized certification so far is still only good to 25' and if your cable is certified, then the mfr should be able to supply you with a Certificate of Compliance. My guess is that AudioQuest won't. Ask them how they "certify" their cables. My guess is they won't tell you. A well made Monoprice, MediaBridge, BJC cable of sufficient wire gauge will work just as good as the grossly overpriced AudioQuest or Monster cables. Those mfrs will spin all kinds of spec like oxygen-free copper, gold connectors, etc, which is nice but really has nothing at all to do with improving pq and aq. They can show graphs from spectro testing but a lot of the data they present is well above what the human eyes and ears can perceive so you're paying all that extra money for "performance" that you will never be able to appreciate. There may be a little more leeway with audio, but not much, and certainly not video fidelity.
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post #40 of 86 Old 06-27-2018, 09:44 AM
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Power cords and audio cables absolutely make a difference. HDMI I don’t thinks so. I have compared the Vodka with a cheap mono price HDMI. After A/B comparing ad nauseam, I could not tell a difference. And believe me I wanted too.

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post #41 of 86 Old 10-06-2018, 11:00 PM
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It's 12:30am in my city and I just woke up from a long day of networking cables through a new hospital and don't typically enjoy reopening a can of worms from a year ago but came across this post....

I have just begun getting excited in audio and video, so when it comes to quality hardware and keen observations with sound, I am sure everyone here is more educated and experienced than I am.

But what I can offer is my degree in Computer science and my understanding in a specialty field of network engineering, which included wiring large networks and making sure these managed sites have the least amount of interference between devices which would cause any possible type of performance issue.

To everyone who states the cables don't matter, and that we live in a day and age where our digital world doesn't need to be concerned with high end cables. I believe, in my personal opinion, you are absolutely incorrect.

When we create an outline for a network. We follow a set of basic rules at the beginning to start maximizing the transmission of data through the network, which is done through the wires.ans cables of the network. For example, we do not want to put a server room near a break room or kitchen area, simply because if it is to close to a source of a wave like a microwave, the networks interference is substantial enough to "Shake the data current off its track" in a way. We also make sure the data room is free of any little static shock from carpet as most data rooms will be concrete or tiled. Engineers design these locations based off of what seems like silly reasons, but when your network is bogged down, or running slow, it is typically do from some type of cross interference from all the areas data can be bottlenecked.

Ill tie in what I just explained into the world of audio and video, which I am still new to, but understand the following. When you compare a projector to an oled TV, the oled TV will always win (as of 2018) due to the bottle neck of transmitting light (signal) through an open area of space. This does not mean a really nice 4k project is bad, it just states that if the projector did not have any interference between the lense that is physically projecting an image to the screen receiving the imagine, then the quality would be much better. This is true for transmitting ignsl through cables from a source device to an end user device.

If there is any way at all, to shield from potential outside interference. As well as the ability to shield from cross interference from nearby sources like other wires transmitting date in the same cable. And the fact that the quality of the metal for its ability to conduct and transmit a clean signal or ones and zeros on a frequency that the devices can communicate themselves, then you have a way to opening up that bottleneck of transmission. Since the data is sent via "pings" and "blips" through a cable, there are so many ways those pings and blips can be distorted and not come out to the end user device as "clean" or "true as intended"

Therefor, what I'd like to conclude in this post (as my first post), there are high end cables, like the ones being discussed here, that do give a better, cleaner, less distorted. Production of data, let it be audio or video. And that everyone claiming any simple hdmi like an Amazon essential that is not shielded or wrapped, would work as well as something like audioquest, in my professional opinion, might not have an ear that can distinguish between the two, meaning their opinion is not wrong (as it is just their opinion), but they can not back up the FACT that they are wrong. And that in truth, cables matter.

Ask any networking engineer in the field where cabling might be done and you will get the same answer I am giving to you all.

Thanks for take the time to read. I hope I was able to explain things in a way you could understand them.
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post #42 of 86 Old 10-07-2018, 04:01 AM
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Stick to "network infrastructure" cabling where your expertise is probably quite extensive.



If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough – Albert Einstein
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post #43 of 86 Old 10-07-2018, 08:59 AM
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+1. Cable mfrs love to give specs beyond the usual HDMI 2.0b specs to sell their overpriced cables as offering "better video performance" blah blah blah. While said cables may have better physical testing results, the bottom line is if the cable is certified by an ATC to meet HDMI 2.0b hardware specs, that's all that matters, because the human eyes and ear are limited in what can be perceived, so any other testing results, while not bogus, are meaningless and are meant to just confuse the consumer into thinking that they will get better performance and thus justify the high cost of the cable. If the cable meets those specs, and is certified by an ATC, then it's a well made cable. AudiQuest and Monster are the kings of this type of marketing.
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post #44 of 86 Old 10-07-2018, 09:34 AM
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The reason "high end" wire/cable outfits can stay in business is because of folks that "believe" there's magic electrical properties with their cables/wires.


The folks that eat that fodder, come to forums and praise the (add your phrase here) audible/visual improvement that only provides free advertisement and may ease the pain of buyer's remorse. And... the more product sold provides the cable/wire guru's a huge profit to increase advertising.


Network wiring/cabling/design/RFI/EMI is similar, but less stringent requirements for "home A/V" IMHO.



If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough – Albert Einstein
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post #45 of 86 Old 10-07-2018, 10:46 AM
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+1, again
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post #46 of 86 Old 11-17-2018, 05:45 AM
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If Audioquest HDMI cables like Vodka do make *some* difference for audio, it would be because of the lower jitter they offer. For video, it would be due to less error correction (from the error correction circuitry) required at the receiving end, which I don't think is a lossless recovery process (but rather it's interpolated, i.e. 'guessed' recovery of damaged or corrupted bits).


I have Audioquest Carbon HDMI, and was using BJC Series FE prior, which is itself a high quality cable. Was/is there a difference in image quality? Maybe, but I thought I did notice a slight reduction in noise in the image when I upgraded to the BJC Series FE from a regular, cheap cable.


If there is anything going on here, it would be reduced error correction needed at the receiving end, which I don't think is lossless recovery, i.e. bit for bit exact to the original recovery. Of course, if the same exact stream of bits is fed through the HDMI receiving device to the display to display the image, then a 'better' cable can't make a difference. But I'm not sure that is the case, even when the image doesn't appear to have any noticeable artifacts like sparkles or occasional dropouts.


All this being said, I find the Audioquest HDMI cable is extremely well constructed and the connectors fit snugly into the jacks.
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post #47 of 86 Old 11-17-2018, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TWD View Post
Power cords and audio cables absolutely make a difference. HDMI I don’t thinks so. I have compared the Vodka with a cheap mono price HDMI. After A/B comparing ad nauseam, I could not tell a difference. And believe me I wanted too.

If there is a difference for HDMI video, it is very small.
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post #48 of 86 Old 11-17-2018, 08:40 AM
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When it comes to HDMI... I'd pose those assumptions to @Joe Fernand for clarification.


@Otto Pylot way also be able to assist.


I personally stand by post #44 . Either you have a well constructed cable or a poorly constructed cable.
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If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough – Albert Einstein
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post #49 of 86 Old 11-17-2018, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post
If there is a difference for HDMI video, it is very small.
No. You either get the signal or you don't. The cable can't alter or modify the signal in any way. "Sharper, clearer, video" or what the smoke and mirror guys say is just that, smoke and mirrors. If you scope the cable performance out, you may see technical differences but they are beyond what the human eyes and ears can perceive so it's all marketing. For runs under 25', stick with Premium High Speed HDMI cables. For runs longer than that, you may have to go with a hybrid fiber if you want to push 4k HDR over about 20'. In any case for long runs install your cabling in a conduit (1.5" - 2.0") because that is the ONLY way to future proof your cabling. There are no 100% guarantees for cabling because of the vast differences in equipment, installations, ad naseum. All you can do is try.

I currently use BJC Premium High Speed HDMI cables for my new HTS upstairs. The downstairs one I'm using MediaBridge cables. Prior to that I think they were Monoprice but I don't remember if those were certified or not. I never saw any video or audio differences at all other than moving up from 480i to 1080p to 4k HDR.

Last edited by Otto Pylot; 11-17-2018 at 09:57 AM.
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post #50 of 86 Old 11-17-2018, 10:29 AM
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No. You either get the signal or you don't. The cable can't alter or modify the signal in any way.

This is not correct. If it were, there wouldn't be the need for error correction circuitry at the receiving end. A digital cable most definitely can and does distort the signal somewhat. The better the cable, the better and less distorted the 1s and 0s come through at the other end. Now, as long as the receiver can ultimately interpret all the 1s and 0s the same (and send the same exact bitstream to the display), then a better cable won't make any difference, of course.


I'm saying this isn't universally the case at all, especially at very high data rates. If there is a difference (however small), it's a higher quality transmission of what amount to little square waves, i.e. 1s and 0s for digital. They don't come through as perfect square waves at the other end of the cable, but are always somewhat distorted (and sometimes a lot distorted). A higher quality cable delivers the signal with less distortion, i.e. closer to the original square waves, than a low quality cable.


I'm also saying I don't think that the error correction circuitry always provides lossless recovery (i.e. bit for bit exact to the original), but instead often provides interpolated recovery of damaged or distorted bits. And if there is a difference, this is why.
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post #51 of 86 Old 11-17-2018, 10:50 AM
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The chipsets in the sink end of an active cable are there for error correction, timing, etc so that the signal can be successfully transferred over a longer distance without any loss of signal integrity. If you do lose integrity, sparkles and other annoyances appear which is obvious. If the signal is received intact without any issues at the sink end, then you are getting whatever the source sent. The cable CAN NOT make the pixels look any better than what the source is sending. Again, the human eyes and ears are very limited in what they can perceive so while a cable may have stellar performance specs, it's all for naught once you reach the human limits. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid. Things will get clearer
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post #52 of 86 Old 11-17-2018, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
The cable CAN NOT make the pixels look any better than what the source is sending.

I've never claimed this, nor do I think it. It's not what I'm saying at all.


I think I've stated what I want clearly enough. Readers can decide for themselves.
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post #53 of 86 Old 11-17-2018, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post
This is not correct. If it were, there wouldn't be the need for error correction circuitry at the receiving end.
Is there a reputable source about error correction and how the "cable" relates?


Quote:
A digital cable most definitely can and does distort the signal somewhat.
What is a "digital cable"? It's just a cable.
What is distorted and how is it distorted where it becomes "visible or audible"?


Quote:
The better the cable, the better and less distorted the 1s and 0s come through at the other end.
That may be correct, but it's just a cable. A well constructed cable and following distance recommendations are all that's needed.
What's the difference between and non-distorted vs.a less-distorted 1 or 0?


Quote:
as long as the receiver can ultimately interpret all the 1s and 0s the same (and send the same exact bitstream to the display), then a better cable won't make any difference, of course.
How does the cable make sure the interpretation is accurate?


Quote:
I'm saying this isn't universally the case at all, especially at very high data rates. If there is a difference (however small), it's a higher quality transmission of what amount to little square waves, i.e. 1s and 0s for digital. They don't come through as perfect square waves at the other end of the cable, but are always somewhat distorted (and sometimes a lot distorted). A higher quality cable delivers the signal with less distortion, i.e. closer to the original square waves, than a low quality cable.
Sounds good, but not quite accurate. Given a $5 cable or a $500 (passive) HDMI of equal length and construct (with no "crap") in between source and destination, the cable shouldn't be a distortion factor of sine waves or square waves (or tsunami waves).


Quote:
I'm also saying I don't think that the error correction circuitry always provides lossless recovery (i.e. bit for bit exact to the original), but instead often provides interpolated recovery of damaged or distorted bits.
It doesn't.


Quote:
And if there is a difference, this is why.
Perhaps.


Wonder what HDMI.org has to say?



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Last edited by Ratman; 11-17-2018 at 11:54 AM.
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post #54 of 86 Old 11-17-2018, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
What's the difference between and non-distorted vs.a less-distorted 1 or 0?

How rounded, i.e. less square, it is, but more importantly whether it can be correctly interpreted as a 1 or a 0 by the receiving device. Here is good video tutorial that explains how digital signal transmission can go wrong and get distorted:


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post #55 of 86 Old 11-17-2018, 12:29 PM
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Any well made cable can have issues for various reasons. The title of this thread is "AudioQuest HDMI's - Worth It? ". And the answer is no, regardless of how the mfr spins their claims to justify their overpriced cables.
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post #56 of 86 Old 11-17-2018, 12:30 PM
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Hans is probably very informed. (Sorry... can't watch videos of YouTube " experts.)


But:
How is it distorted where does it becomes "visible or audible" due to a cable (given passive, correct distance, and directly connected from source to destination)?


Apples to apples.



If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough – Albert Einstein
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post #57 of 86 Old 11-17-2018, 12:54 PM
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Mono price and Amazon Basic HDMI 2.0 - 18 GB cables work fine here .

Samsung 55KS8000 ,Samsung 55MU6300 . Sony 55X850C ,LG 42LB5400 ,Roku 2
Sony ES 7.1HT AVR modest 5.1 surround with Elac B6 fronts w/other impedance and sensitivity matched surrounds , center and powered sub that work well for what it is.
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post #58 of 86 Old 11-17-2018, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by frank xbe View Post
Mono price and Amazon Basic HDMI 2.0 - 18 GB cables work fine here .
If the cable is actually labeled "Amazon Basic HDMI 2.0" that cable is probably a cheap Chinese knock-off because HDMI.org requested that cable mfrs not label their cables with the HDMI hardware specification because it was misleading. Properly mfr'd cables should be just labeled as High Speed HDMI cables which implies that they meet the current HDMI protocol standards. Some cable mfrs even go as far as having their cables tested and certified. In which case the cable will be labeled as a Premium High Speed HDMI cable and will come with a QR label for authenticity. Without that there is no way to confirm the mfrs' claims.

That being said, even if you have a cheap Chinese knock-off, and it works as expected, that underscores the fact that you don't have to spend a lot of money to get a cable that works. AudioQuest, Monster, etc offer really nice looking cables that are well made but in no way does that justify the cost of their cables.
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post #59 of 86 Old 11-17-2018, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
If the cable is actually labeled "Amazon Basic HDMI 2.0" that cable is probably a cheap Chinese knock-off because HDMI.org requested that cable mfrs not label their cables with the HDMI hardware specification because it was misleading. Properly mfr'd cables should be just labeled as High Speed HDMI cables which implies that they meet the current HDMI protocol standards. Some cable mfrs even go as far as having their cables tested and certified. In which case the cable will be labeled as a Premium High Speed HDMI cable and will come with a QR label for authenticity. Without that there is no way to confirm the mfrs' claims.

That being said, even if you have a cheap Chinese knock-off, and it works as expected, that underscores the fact that you don't have to spend a lot of money to get a cable that works. AudioQuest, Monster, etc offer really nice looking cables that are well made but in no way does that justify the cost of their cables.
Thanks for the correct info .they were labeled "High Speed HDMI" and shipped from Amazon direct . $6.99 ea @ 6 ft.

Samsung 55KS8000 ,Samsung 55MU6300 . Sony 55X850C ,LG 42LB5400 ,Roku 2
Sony ES 7.1HT AVR modest 5.1 surround with Elac B6 fronts w/other impedance and sensitivity matched surrounds , center and powered sub that work well for what it is.
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post #60 of 86 Old 11-17-2018, 05:04 PM
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Thanks for the correct info .they were labeled "High Speed HDMI" and shipped from Amazon direct . $6.99 ea @ 6 ft.
Yep. Those are just plain old High Speed HDMI cables. Cost does not equate with better cables in most cases.
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