AudioQuest HDMI's - Worth It? - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 86 Old 11-17-2018, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
Yep. Those are just plain old High Speed HDMI cables. Cost does not equate with better cables in most cases.
LOL same for my less expensive Mono-price direct cables which I also use for music as well.
speaker cables are inexpensive but decent 16 AWG Monoprice direct pure copper.

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post #62 of 86 Old 11-17-2018, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by frank xbe View Post
LOL same for my less expensive Mono-price direct cables which I also use for music as well.
speaker cables are inexpensive but decent 16 AWG Monoprice direct pure copper.
For the longest time I used 16AWG dual strand heater cord wire for my HTS downstairs and it sounded really nice .
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post #63 of 86 Old 11-17-2018, 06:23 PM
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In using inherited money to spend $8,200 on home theater equipment, I got a little reckless by going overboard on high priced HDMI cables, while thinking, "What the hell, maybe there's actually something to the salesman's claim that if I go with more modestly priced HDMI cables, my high-def display really could exhibit a "subtle form of red banding".

But a year later, I put that claim to the test. The display that I used to compare HDMI cables was a calibrated Panasonic P58-VT25 plasma, which was the same flat panel that won the September 2010 Value Electronics Flat Panel Shoot Out, with all of the 30 video professionals in attendance at that shoot out, having unanimously picked the VT-25 as the flat panel with the best picture quality.

Anyhow, using a Blu-ray of Casino Royale, along with a 2nd copy of that Blu-ray, that was loaned by a friend, the sames scenes of the flick were simultaneously fed into the HDMI 1 and HDMI 2 inputs of the Panasonic, from a Sony BD player and a Panasonic BD Player.

But even though the high priced HDMI cable cost 15 TIMES as much as the low priced HDMI cable, neither myself, nor any of 3 other people, could see even the most slight difference in picture quality.

What we did was to have one of the Blu-ray players about 12 seconds ahead of the other in the movie, so that viewers could closely study the picture quality of the scene that was further ahead, and then switch to the TV's 2nd input so that viewers were then seeing the 2nd BD player and HDMI cable showing the same section of a scene they'd just viewed on the 1st BD player & HDMI cable.

Anyhow, that A-B test comparison convinced me that there is NO visual difference between HDMI cables, as long as a cable doesn't suffer from a defect, like a faulty connector.

BTW, not only was the expensive HDMI cable 15 times as expensive as my low priced cable, but the expensive HDMI cable was only 1 meter long, while the low priced HDMI was 6 feet long.



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post #64 of 86 Old 11-17-2018, 07:40 PM
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post #65 of 86 Old 01-04-2019, 10:48 AM
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I know what you're saying digital cables are all the same: they works or they don't. But this guy: https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussi...p-stuff-review maybe has photoshopped the images or a difference between a cheap hdmi and an audioquest cinnamon is clear.
I don't know what to think.
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post #66 of 86 Old 01-04-2019, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by locutus2k View Post
I know what you're saying digital cables are all the same: they works or they don't. But this guy: https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussi...p-stuff-review maybe has photoshopped the images or a difference between a cheap hdmi and an audioquest cinnamon is clear.
I don't know what to think.

So who paid for that test, AudioQuest? My guideline is this:


For 1080p, any well made High Speed HDMI cable from Monoprice, BlueJeans, MediaBridge is fine. If your run is over 25', which is the maximum current certifiable distance, then an active cable or extender should work fine.


For 4k HDR up to about 20', a Premium High Speed HDMI cable should work just fine if it is certified by an ATC and comes with the QR label of authenticity. At lengths over 20' a hybrid fiber cable should be considered.



Any cable mfr can submit their cables for certification by an ATC (Authorized Testing Center) if they want to pay for the cost of certification. That's the beauty of ATC certified cables is that they are not specific to any one cable mfr. All cable mfrs will claim their cables meet or exceed (?) the HDMI 2.0b hardware specifications but unless the cables are tested and certified by a standardized testing protocol, you have no way of knowing how extensive the testing is or how they actually perform the testing.



That being said, no one can give you a 100% guarantee, certified or not, that their cable will work as you expect in your setting because there is more to a successful cable connection (bend radius, installation, HDMI chipsets at source/sink end, etc) than just the data pipe , which is the cable. The cable itself can not improve the pq (greens won't be greener, reds won't be redder, etc). What you will see are sparkles, drop outs, etc.


Do they define what a cheap HDMI cable is? Sure, you can always find some cheaply made, Chinese knock-off cable with great sounding marketing and then compare it to better quality cable like the AudioQuest and see differences. If you purchase ATC certified cables from reputable mfrs like Monoprice, BJC, MediaBridge etc you can get the same performance for less money than the overpriced AudioQuest/Monster brands or other similar mfrs.


If you want to "future proof" your cabling the only way to do that is to install your cabling in a conduit if the installation is in-wall or your cables are not easily accessible. Cable connection technology is way behind the video technology so the probability of swapping cables down the road is high.


That article is also over a year old and he mentions "AudioQuest HDMI 2.0 cables". HDMI.org asked cable mfrs years ago to not label their cables with the HDMI hardware specification because it was too confusing for the consumer. HDMI cables are to be designated as High Speed or Premium High Speed. One designation means that the cable meets the HDMI 2.0b hardware specification and the other designation means that the cable has been tested and certified to meet the HDMI 2.0b hardware specifications. Oxygen-free is marketing.

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post #67 of 86 Old 01-04-2019, 12:10 PM
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I don't know if someone paid for the test, but since that guy ends his review with a statement that even with the improvements the Audioquest was too much money for him i tend to believe the test is honest.
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post #68 of 86 Old 01-04-2019, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by locutus2k View Post
I don't know if someone paid for the test, but since that guy ends his review with a statement that even with the improvements the Audioquest was too much money for him i tend to believe the test is honest.

I added a comment to my post after you replied.

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post #69 of 86 Old 01-04-2019, 12:22 PM
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That test was made on SD and 1080p video. Actual Audioquest hdmi cables have "4K - HDR" stamped on connectors.
Also, for his own admission, difference was subtle exactly "The AQ Cinnamon image has slightly better detail, although this was not perceptible to my eyes when looking at the TV from 12 feet away. If you download the higher resolution pictures attached at the end of this post and flip between them while viewing on a high definition display, you should be able see the differences between them."
So it hink this is an honest test after all.
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post #70 of 86 Old 01-04-2019, 12:26 PM
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I use the AQ Carbons. Didn't notice anything in terms of PQ quality but definitely a subtle improvement in audio quality. However, you need pretty resolving gear to notice so a typical user with a basic receiver shouldn't bother.

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post #71 of 86 Old 01-04-2019, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by locutus2k View Post
That test was made on SD and 1080p video. Actual Audioquest hdmi cables have "4K - HDR" stamped on connectors.
Also, for his own admission, difference was subtle exactly "The AQ Cinnamon image has slightly better detail, although this was not perceptible to my eyes when looking at the TV from 12 feet away. If you download the higher resolution pictures attached at the end of this post and flip between them while viewing on a high definition display, you should be able see the differences between them."
So it hink this is an honest test after all.

Any cable mfr can stamp just about anything they want on a cable. I'm sure the test was honest but it didn't really prove anything. How long is your run?



Most folks are concerned now-a-days with 4k HDR (18Gbps) so if you stick with a Premium High Speed HDMI cable, given your cable run, then you'll be fine for 1080p, 4k, and 4k HDR, for now, without having to spend a ton of money on a cable that has specs that are beyond what the human eyes and ears can perceive.

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post #72 of 86 Old 01-04-2019, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by drewTT View Post
I use the AQ Carbons. Didn't notice anything in terms of PQ quality but definitely a subtle improvement in audio quality. However, you need pretty resolving gear to notice so a typical user with a basic receiver shouldn't bother.

Hearing is in the eyes of the beholder, or some such nonsense
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post #73 of 86 Old 01-04-2019, 03:23 PM
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IMO... when cable experts sell a cable in "flavors" of increasing prices, there's a red flag.
1) I hear a difference! (low price)
2) My wife hears a difference from the kitchen! (medium price)
3) My 85 year old mother/in-law can hear a difference with hearing aids from the basement! (highest price)



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post #74 of 86 Old 01-05-2019, 12:23 AM
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The point is not about price: "high End" cables are overpriced and that's a fact. the point is that not all HDMI digital cables are the same (read: it works or it don't). When you came to high end equipment the increase in quality is inversely proportional to the increase in price. If someone is wiling to spend such an extra for an Audioquest carbon/vodka or even Cinnamon (one of the "cheapest" in their line) he will buy a cable that will improve (in a subtle way or maybe in a negligible way) his a/v quality, even if he can't say what or where. To each his own but my point is: Audioquest cables are certainly overpriced but they're not snake oil.
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post #75 of 86 Old 01-05-2019, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by locutus2k View Post
To each his own but my point is: Audioquest cables are certainly overpriced but they're not snake oil.

AudioQuest cables are certainly not snake oil. They make very good cables. What is "snake oil" is their claim of improved pq/aq. My guess is that if you test one of their cables, same length, in the same system against a well made Premium High Speed HDMI cable you won't be able to discern any differences in perceived quality. Some people may be more sensitive than others but that percentage is extremely small. Even if AudioQuest released their testing results done with sophisticated instrumentation, the differences are outside of what the human eyes and ears can perceive.


That being said, if one has a HTS that is considered high end ($10,000 +) the differences may become more perceptible just by virtue of the quality of the equipment being used. For most of us the same performance can be achieved without the high cost of an AudioQuest cable for our meager systems


But it's your money, and if you feel the cost is justified because you can see and hear a difference, then that's all that matters.
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post #76 of 86 Old 05-08-2019, 05:33 PM
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I have no dog in this fight regarding HDMI cables, but this guy (Techno Dad) on YouTube did a video over AQ HDMI vs Amazon HDMI cables. The majority of people (including me) seem to believe the AQ had the better image. You can view the comparison and results on YouTube by looking up Amazon HDMI vs Audioquest HDMI / A/B Results!

Unfortunately, the difference, while noticeable, is so small the cost ($$$) outweighs the improvements.
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post #77 of 86 Old 05-08-2019, 07:59 PM
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I have no dog in this fight regarding HDMI cables, but this guy (Techno Dad) on YouTube did a video over AQ HDMI vs Amazon HDMI cables. The majority of people (including me) seem to believe the AQ had the better image. You can view the comparison and results on YouTube by looking up Amazon HDMI vs Audioquest HDMI / A/B Results!

Unfortunately, the difference, while noticeable, is so small the cost ($$$) outweighs the improvements.
Believe what you want but the cable itself can not make reds any redder or greens any greener. If it's the video I'm thinking of his "unbiased" approach was questionable. At under 25', the best you can do is a Premium High Speed HDMI cable (QR label), period.

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post #78 of 86 Old 05-09-2019, 02:49 AM
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Thumbs down Folks Shouldn't Fall For Pricey HDMI Cables That Are A Pure Waste Of Money

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
Believe what you want but the cable itself can not make reds any redder or greens any greener. If it's the video I'm thinking of his "unbiased" approach was questionable. At under 25', the best you can do is a Premium High Speed HDMI cable (QR label), period.
You certainly hit the digital nail squarely on the head, Otto Pylot!

High priced HDMI cables have to be the most shameful con & ripoff that's to be found in the home theater category of products!


Though we haven't gotten into UHD 4k yet, my wife and I use 4 very high quality 1080p displays which range in screen size from 58 inches up to an 80 inch flat screen. And, over the years, having used a total of 8 Blu-ray players from the Sony and Panasonic brands, we've had a lot of experience with various HDMI cable brands. When we bought our first high-def display in September 2007, which was Mitsubishi's top of the line 73 inch Diamond series DLP RPTV, I got suckered into using some of the inherited money that we'd just gotten, for buying some very expensive HDMI cables. The sales manager at the home theater specialty store where we dropped $8,200 on A/V equipment, in one fell swoop, insisted that if we wanted to be sure to avoid a supposed possibility of seeing some slight red fringing on such a sizable screen, we should buy the expensive type of HDMI cable that he was promoting. And since there's a lot of truth in the old saying "Easy come, easy go", I said "What the hell, I'm suddenly equipped with all this money, so why not purchase some fancy cables to use with this fancy TV."

But in recent years, though I'm very critical of picture quality, HDMI cables purchased from Amazon for around $7 apiece, have offered all of the PQ performance for our displays that we could ask for. The only critical consideration when judging an HDMI cable's suitability for its application, (assuming it's speed is high enough for the application, (such as being used for carrying 4k signals, rather than just carrying 1080p) is making sure that the cable has good, solid connectors. But, as I've indicated, even very modestly priced HDMI cables from Amazon, have met that requirement for us. And they seem to last.

But back in 2007, as he was talking to me, while writing up the sales order, that man at that store who sold me our first high def TV, was probably thinking that I was living proof of P.T. Barnum's famous quote "There's a sucker born every minute!"

Anyhow, later I was to discover, through a direct A/B comparison of one of those expensive HDMI cables that I'd bought, with a cheap HDMI cable which cost a very small fraction of the expensive cable's price, that in using the 2 kinds of cables to feed the images of some well produced Blu-ray discs to an excellent flat screen, there was ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE in picture quality between the 2 cables.

Executives at companies like Audioquest, who are responsible for ripping off unwary consumers of the type that I used to be, are executives of electronic accessory companies who should be seriously fined, and even jailed, for their behavior, which resembles that of a certain leader who paid out $25 million for victimizing Americans with a phony university named for him.


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post #79 of 86 Old 05-09-2019, 10:12 AM
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^^^^^ @sarahb75 - The only rule that I follow is this:

If your cable run is under 25' and you want to push 4k HDR, then a passive Premium High Speed HDMI cable is what you need. If you want to push 4k HDR over 25', then the recommendation is to use a hybrid fiber cable (I like Ruipro, which unfortunately are expensive).

Premium High Speed HDMI cables are certified by an Authorized Testing Center (ATC), which is a program designed and maintained by HDMI.org so the cables, from any mfr should they choose to submit their cables, are tested and certified by a standardized procedure. The cables will come with a QR label for authenticity.

Active cables, whether they be copper only, fiber, or hybrid fiber can not be certified by an ATC because HDMI.org doesn't allow for certification of active cables.

Some cable mfrs will present very nice results derived from some sophisticated instrumentation but they are usually outside of the range that normal human eyes and ears can perceive so they are pretty much meaningless.

If someone feels that an AudioQuest cable, of the same length, compared to a Premium High Speed HDMI cable under the exact same test conditions delivers better pq/aq then more power to them. Quite often it's just justifying the high cost of the cable. Cable mfrs have been getting away with questionable claims for years with slick marketing and carefully worded cable descriptions (written by lawyers no doubt). Just wait till HDMI 2.1 becomes mainstream

Certification is not a 100% guarantee that the cable will work in any given setup. There are just too many variables, besides the data path, that go into a successful cable run.

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post #80 of 86 Old 05-15-2019, 11:26 AM
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As others have mentioned, AQ doesn't really promise better picture with their cables. They do promise better sound. I called AQ directly and the guy on the phone said confirmed/said essentially verbatim, "Depending on who you are and your equipment, you may or may not see a picture improvement, but you should hear an audio improvement regardless."
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As others have mentioned, AQ doesn't really promise better picture with their cables. They do promise better sound. I called AQ directly and the guy on the phone said confirmed/said essentially verbatim, "Depending on who you are and your equipment, you may or may not see a picture improvement, but you should hear an audio improvement regardless."

I don't really buy that either. Unless you have grounding issues or loose connectors, the audio should be fine. If the cable meets ALL of the HDMI 2.0b hardware specifications, that also includes audio. And even it it is true, their pricing doesn't justify a possible moderate increase in audio fidelity. A good sound system shouldn't need special cables anyway unless you're going into the super high end audio equipment, and then I'm sure there are cables for that that are much better than AQ for audio. Marketing b.s.

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post #82 of 86 Old 05-15-2019, 01:40 PM
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I don't really buy that either. Marketing b.s.
Amen.



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'"Depending on who you are and your equipment, you may or may not see a picture improvement, but you should hear an audio improvement regardless." - just to be clear! The HDMI Source device embeds the audio signal within the video signal, it then jumbles everything up using HDCP encryption before being sent along the HDMI cable. The signal is then decrypted by the Sink (AVR or Display), the audio extracted and processed - and somehow a cable 'fine tunes' the audio!

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post #84 of 86 Old 05-16-2019, 08:20 AM
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^^^^^ Word!

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post #85 of 86 Old 05-16-2019, 09:37 AM
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^^^^^ Word!
SORRY!!!! I just couldn't resist.




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Lol! :d

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