TEST REPORTS | HDMI CABLES WHICH PROPERLY AND RELIABLY SUPPORT 18GBPS & HDMI 2.0b - Page 43 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1261 of 1336 Old 08-20-2019, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by HDMI_4K_60Hz View Post
Ratman, what can I say, if I've offended you then I'm sorry and apologise, but you have to admit, it is a rare thing for a 65 year old to be posting in forums about technical subjects such as these so when you seem to be constantly degrading the words I'm saying and joining sides with a person who appears like they may work for RuiPro4K it begins to make me question everything about your profile, it's that simple, but if you are who you say you are then I do apologise.
You are way off base.
Just answer the questions as asked. It's that simple.
And... I am who I am. Are you who you say you are in your profile?
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post #1262 of 1336 Old 08-20-2019, 04:59 AM
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Exclamation Does Ratman have the answers

LOL Ratman I like your tag line. It's very amusing considering you never seem to provide any answers of your own. :P

And yes I am who I say I am. If you understand anything about engineering then simply ask me a question. Would you like a drawing of the bending moment diagram of a cod rod as is standard practice in any engineering interview, or perhaps to know the differing modes of failure of crankshafts, or maybe to know the shear force exerted on a gudgeon pin at TDC?

So excuse me for asking again, but what is your technical background and then perhaps I can pose some technical questions of my own that you won't find answers on Google to for you to answer?

Actually I can think of a relevant question now. What is the minimum outer diameter in mm of a copper wire being used as the power wire for a HDMI 2.1 cable thats 2m in length...

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post #1263 of 1336 Old 08-20-2019, 05:14 AM
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Thanks for derailing this thread.
You have now gone to the absurd. Bye!


EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMI_4K_60Hz View Post
LOL Ratman I like your tag line. It's very amusing considering you never seem to provide any answers of your own. :P

And yes I am who I say I am. If you understand anything about engineering then simply ask me a question. Would you like a drawing of the bending moment diagram of a cod rod as is standard practice in any engineering interview, or perhaps to know the differing modes of failure of crankshafts, or maybe to know the shear force exerted on a gudgeon pin at TDC?

So excuse me for asking again, but what is your technical background and then perhaps I can pose some technical questions of my own that you won't find answers on Google to for you to answer?

Actually I can think of a relevant question now. What is the minimum outer diameter in mm of a copper wire being used as the power wire for a HDMI 2.1 cable thats 2m in length...
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post #1264 of 1336 Old 08-20-2019, 05:35 AM
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Arrow Bringing this Thread Back on Track

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
Thanks for derailing this thread.
You have now gone to the absurd. Bye!
EDIT:
Oh I see what you did there, you still provided no answers and chose to throw a final insult into the mix. Pretty clever really but definitely not an IQ 200 move.

OK, so lets get this thread back on track to where it was before Ratman started throwing it off course. I'll just paste the entire last comment in below. And Jong1 you seemed much less hostile than Ratman and Otto have been toward me so I hope you're the person with the answers:


That's interesting and makes sense. I would have hoped every cable had passed a performance quality inspection when it was manufactured though, but maybe not if the manufacturers are using the certification to prove the design and are then choosing to save money on performance inspection costs by simply not doing that performance testing because they think the certification means they'll never get quality problems? I know you'd never get away with that in the UK but maybe in Taiwan and China etc this lack of inspection is deemed ok and maybe even common practice to save money? That then makes sense why every cost saving effort I've known in Aerospace and Motorsport projects where the accountants have tried to save money by having parts manufactured in these cheaper countries has ultimately resulted in poor part quality resulting in huge production problems and typically several months of delays to projects before the decision was ultimately made to finally bring manufacture back to more local machine shops back in the UK.

When I work through the maths theory myself I keep reaching the answer that 17.92Gbps supports 4K 60Hz 12bit 4:4:4 so I'm not sure what's going on now because none of the cables, not even the 48Gbps cables give that performance..... thinking.....

I find it curious how every 18Gbps cable I've ever tried does not match up to the 27Gbps or 48Gbps cables though. I mean I've definitely purchased Premium Certified 18Gbps cables and those didn't work as good either.... so what's going on.....

There must be more than meets the eye going on inside a HDMI cable. I mean there's obviously sound information too but I'm sure this can only be a very small fraction of the data required compared to video information. Then there must be timing information to give the CPU on the TV end enough information to stitch everything perfectly back together again, but I'm not sure how much extra information this all takes up? Oh and it's digital too so the 17.92Gbps video information must be having to be sent at least twice...... WAIT, maybe that's it.....???

Maybe 18Gbps cables can only support a 9Gbps data "picture" but the information is sent down the cable twice... 9+9=18 ? That would actually make sense as a 4:2:0 picture requires exactly 50% of the data that a 4:4:4 picture requires!!! OK, so working through these numbers I get the following which seems to tie in nicely with the results being achieved with the cables I've tested:

4K 60Hz HDR12 4:2:0 picture = 17.92Gbps video data.
4K 60Hz HDR12 4:2:2 picture = 23.89Gbps video data.
4K 60Hz HDR12 4:4:4 picture = 35.83Gbps video data.

This would explain why all the 18Gbps cables I've tested are only achieving the 4:2:0 Chroma picture. And it would also explain why the 27Gbps and 48Gbps cables are achieving the 4:2:2 Chroma picture too. The only thing it doesn't explain is why the 48Gbps cables are not achieving a 4:4:4 Chroma picture, but I imagine this simply is a result of the actual female HDMI 2.0 port reaching it's maximum data capacity and so when the two devices are handshaking they're opting to choose the next best picture standard that does work which is the 4:2:2 Chroma one.

Jong1, Hi, nice to meet you. You seem like you're willing to try and provide answers, so I'm interested to know if you have enough of a background to be able to comment on the numbers I've questioned above? I mean it really seems to make sense to me but I'll happily be taught otherwise if you know what is going on and can provide some simple logical reasoning to support it
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post #1265 of 1336 Old 08-20-2019, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by HDMI_4K_60Hz View Post
Oh I see what you did there, you still provided no answers and chose to throw a final insult into the mix. Pretty clever really but definitely not an IQ 200 move.

OK, so lets get this thread back on track to where it was before Ratman started throwing it off course. I'll just paste the entire last comment in below. And Jong1 you seemed much less hostile than Ratman and Otto have been toward me so I hope you're the person with the answers:

Personal attacks are not welcome.
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post #1266 of 1336 Old 08-20-2019, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMI_4K_60Hz View Post
Jong1, Hi, nice to meet you. You seem like you're willing to try and provide answers, so I'm interested to know if you have enough of a background to be able to comment on the numbers I've questioned above? I mean it really seems to make sense to me but I'll happily be taught otherwise if you know what is going on and can provide some simple logical reasoning to support it
Hi!

I promise you you only need 17.82Gbps to pass 4K/60 12-bit 4:2:2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMI_4K_60Hz View Post
When I work through the maths theory myself I keep reaching the answer that 17.92Gbps supports 4K 60Hz 12bit 4:4:4 so I'm not sure what's going on now because none of the cables, not even the 48Gbps cables give that performance..... thinking.....

There must be more than meets the eye going on inside a HDMI cable. I mean there's obviously sound information too but I'm sure this can only be a very small fraction of the data required compared to video information. Then there must be timing information to give the CPU on the TV end enough information to stitch everything perfectly back together again, but I'm not sure how much extra information this all takes up?
Yeah, what you are missing in your calculation, as you have realised, is that there is considerable overhead in an HDMI TMDS Frame. It is not a simple "raw" data stream.

The frames are synced to the refresh rate of the display and, like "old-fashioned" TV, there are sizeable horizontal and vertical blanking intervals, which use bandwidth but contain no video data. Instead they contain control data and, if available, audio. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#T...ignaling_(TMDS).This picture shows it quite nicely:



Audio is transmitted during the data island periods. If there is no audio, empty packets need to be transmitted to maintain sync. If there is audio it essentially uses no additional bandwidth. It is because of this that none of the bit rate calculators need to consider any additional data rate for audio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMI_4K_60Hz View Post
Maybe 18Gbps cables can only support a 9Gbps data "picture" but the information is sent down the cable twice... 9+9=18 ? That would actually make sense as a 4:2:0 picture requires exactly 50% of the data that a 4:4:4 picture requires!!! OK, so working through these numbers I get the following which seems to tie in nicely with the results being achieved with the cables I've tested:

4K 60Hz HDR12 4:2:0 picture = 17.92Gbps video data.
4K 60Hz HDR12 4:2:2 picture = 23.89Gbps video data.
4K 60Hz HDR12 4:4:4 picture = 35.83Gbps video data.

This would explain why all the 18Gbps cables I've tested are only achieving the 4:2:0 Chroma picture. And it would also explain why the 27Gbps and 48Gbps cables are achieving the 4:2:2 Chroma picture too. The only thing it doesn't explain is why the 48Gbps cables are not achieving a 4:4:4 Chroma picture, but I imagine this simply is a result of the actual female HDMI 2.0 port reaching it's maximum data capacity and so when the two devices are handshaking they're opting to choose the next best picture standard that does work which is the 4:2:2 Chroma one.
No, sorry, this is wrong. 4K/60 12-bit 4:2:2 can be transmitted @18Gbps. The table shown from this link I posted yesterday spells it out quite nicely.



So, I really do not know why all your "18Gbps" cables failed. I can only assure you that a true 18Gbps cable with compliant good source and display can transmit 4K/60 12-bit 4:2:2 and no compliant HDMI 2.0 source will try to transmit at more than 18Gbps. HDMI 2.0 was designed specifically with this in mind.

Hope this helps.
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post #1267 of 1336 Old 08-20-2019, 06:27 AM
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Hi Jong1, very helpful thanks!, that's just the type of answer I was looking for!

So you are basically saying I am just that unlucky when it comes to buying 18Gbps HDMI cables

Have you got any similar information on how the DSC encryption works because it seems like an important tool being used to cut down on the amount of data sent for increased bit rates?
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post #1268 of 1336 Old 08-20-2019, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMI_4K_60Hz View Post
Hi Jong1, very helpful thanks!, that's just the type of answer I was looking for!

So you are basically saying I am just that unlucky when it comes to buying 18Gbps HDMI cables

Have you got any similar information on how the DSC encryption works because it seems like an important tool being used to cut down on the amount of data sent for increased bit rates?
No DSC compression is used with HDMI 2.0, that will only happen when HDMI 2.1 takes off and is only used when the data rate would otherwise go over 48Gbps.

This table shows it quite well:

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post #1269 of 1336 Old 08-20-2019, 07:32 AM
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Hi Jong1 thanks for the table. Your information is very useful

The reason I was asking about the DSC compression is because in the CEDIA table it mentions that the data is being DSC compressed to deliver the 8 bit and 10 bit versions of the 4K 60Hz 4:2:2 Chroma which seems to be the way it is fitting this into the 18Gbps bandwidth?

But yes I'd heard of DSC and thought it was just being introduced for HDMI 2.1 cables, but it sounds like it's also being used for the HDMI 2.0 cables, perhaps at an older revision :/
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post #1270 of 1336 Old 08-20-2019, 08:14 AM
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No. I did wonder if that might be confusing, but didn't want to confuse things myself maybe unnecessarily by introducing it!

The HDBaseT column on the Cedia table concerns how to pass HDMI over Cat ("ethernet") cabling - the traditional way of doing long cable runs, although fiber is better for many people these days. Even Cat 7 is not rated to 18Gbps, so compression is needed for some video modes and DSC currently breaks Dolby Vision metadata, so some are simply unavailable.

If you are using a regular HDMI cable or fiber HDMI cable no compression is used for HDMI 2.0.

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post #1271 of 1336 Old 08-20-2019, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by HDMI_4K_60Hz View Post

Otto, why do you keep plugging the RuiPro4K cables. I've just found them online and they don't appear to have sold more than 20 globally and have hardly any reviews? You never answered my question when I asked you what you do for a job so I'm now wondering whether you might work for RuiPro4K?? Are you a qualified engineer?
Your "research" on Ruipro4k hybrid fiber cables is way off. They have sold thousands of cables globally and is recognized here by AVS members as making cables that work extremely well for 4k HDR at lengths over 10m. In fact, there is a major installer in the UK who has sold and installed hundreds of cables and is an exclusive reseller for them. He is also a frequent and respected poster here on AVS as well. I have no vested interest in Ruipro other than they sent me 2m versions of their current cables to test out in my system because there were some concerns by others that active cables would have issues at under 3m (or about 10'). They don't, and in fact performed as well as the BJC Premium passive cables. I have no problems with 4:2:0, 4:2:2 , or even 4:4:4 (but I have no need to use that chroma because I'm not a gamer nor do I use a computer as a source).

My profession is not relevant to this discussion. But if you must know, I'm a retired, published, analytical chemist with extensive experience in spectrophotometry. We've asked you time and time again for a link to your 27Gbps or even 48Gbps cables and you have refused to honor that request. Your comment about more 1's and 0's producing better pq leaves one to wonder.
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post #1272 of 1336 Old 08-20-2019, 09:09 AM
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I've been using the RuiPro4K fiber cable for over a year and its great.
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post #1273 of 1336 Old 08-20-2019, 09:55 AM
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I need a 40' HDMI cable. The cable will be run from my processor, then up the wall, through the ceiling and to the projector. Trying to decide between these 2 cables:

1. Monoprice SlimRun AV HDR cable: One version is CMP-rated, and the other doesn't have an advertised fire rating. The CMP version is more expensive.

2. RUIPRO cable.

I don't see any fire rating advertised for the RUIPRO cable. I read earlier in the thread that rating for optical cables are different than copper cables, but isn't the jacket itself important as well in terms of the overall cable not acting like a fuse in the event of a fire (whose origin isn't necessarily the cable itself)? The Monoprice SlimRun AV has the CMP-rated version, but it is about 33% more expensive than the RUIPRO. Any thoughts with regards to fire safety (probably a secondary concern after ensuring that the cable passes 4k okay, but don't want to worry about what happens in the event of a catastrophe and don't want to give insurance company any caveats...)?
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post #1274 of 1336 Old 08-20-2019, 10:54 AM
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1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
Please provide links to your 21Gbps, 27Gbps, or 48Gbps cable (other than the highly suspect Belkin cable).
2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
We would still like to see your link to the magical 22Gbps/27Gbps cable. If you think you get better PQ with your 27Gbps cable because you are getting more 1’s and 0’s than an 18Gbps cable then that’s your perception but it has no basis in reality. Enjoy your cables.
3.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
All we ask is that you post links to the cables you've tested so if someone else here wants to attempt to verify your results they can. Links to products are done all of the time.
4.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jong1 View Post
So, what he has proved is that his "18Gb/s" cables were, in fact, not and his "27Gb/s" and "48Gb/s" cables (whatever they were) could, like any working Premium Certified or 18Gb/s-capable fiber cable, pass 18Gb/s.
5.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
You are way off base.
Just answer the questions as asked. It's that simple.
I make that 5 times he has been asked to provide details of those cables, and 5 times (so far) he has ignored the question and tried to deflect with lots of questions of his own.

He'll either deflect this one with questions about me, or ignore it. But he will not ever provide details of those cables, or answer the question.

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post #1275 of 1336 Old 08-20-2019, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
1.


2.


3.


4.


5.


I make that 5 times he has been asked to provide details of those cables, and 5 times (so far) he has ignored the question and tried to deflect with lots of questions of his own.

He'll either deflect this one with questions about me, or ignore it. But he will not ever provide details of those cables, or answer the question.
I like the way you did your quotes, numbered and all I need to learn how to do that. I even asked him over on AV Forums, where he goes by AWCrypt and nada.
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post #1276 of 1336 Old 08-20-2019, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randman View Post
I need a 40' HDMI cable. The cable will be run from my processor, then up the wall, through the ceiling and to the projector. Trying to decide between these 2 cables:

1. Monoprice SlimRun AV HDR cable: One version is CMP-rated, and the other doesn't have an advertised fire rating. The CMP version is more expensive.

2. RUIPRO cable.

I don't see any fire rating advertised for the RUIPRO cable. I read earlier in the thread that rating for optical cables are different than copper cables, but isn't the jacket itself important as well in terms of the overall cable not acting like a fuse in the event of a fire (whose origin isn't necessarily the cable itself)? The Monoprice SlimRun AV has the CMP-rated version, but it is about 33% more expensive than the RUIPRO. Any thoughts with regards to fire safety (probably a secondary concern after ensuring that the cable passes 4k okay, but don't want to worry about what happens in the event of a catastrophe and don't want to give insurance company any caveats...)?
The Ruipro4k cables use CL2 rated jacket material but they are still waiting for the approval to add that to their specs. For an HDMI cable, I wouldn't be too concerned with just running an HDMI cable but caution is always a good thing. CL2 is rated for 150V and CL3 is rated for 300V. Both types of cables are for high voltage applications and don’t reduce smoke or gases but reduce the possibility of shock. CMP ratings are usually reserved for commercial buildings with CMP made for use with plenums. CM and CMG cables are usually used for ethernet applications and the CL group is used for audio/visual applications. Most home wiring is the CL/CM variety.

I think you'd get better longevity with the Ruipro cable only because it is extremely well made, very flexible, and is hybrid fiber. At 40' I assume you are running your cables in a conduit.

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post #1277 of 1336 Old 08-20-2019, 12:42 PM
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Look for HDMI cables that provide:


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post #1278 of 1336 Old 08-20-2019, 01:40 PM
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So it appears that two retired people can do with a lesson on how to greet people to a new forum and re-educate them if they say something wrong

To be fair I did answer your question indirectly several times when I said that every 27Gbps and 48Gbps HDMI cable I've ever tried worked better than every 18Gbps HDMI cable I ever tried. And this is still true.

But informative information has now been provided in a friendly and welcoming way by Jong1, which now leads me to believe that all of the 18Gbps HDMI cables I purchased, both certified and not must have been faulty, because I cannot fault Jong1's logic. His answer was much more logical and informative than a simple "you're wrong, wait for the links, wait for the links etc etc". To be fair Ratman and Otto have unfairly been at my throat since I posted my first post, which was only ever meant as a "hey guys I've found this out, I don't necessarily understand why yet but on my system it's giving me the same results each time, and those results were telling me that the 27Gbps and 48Gbps HDMI cables were not performing as well as the 18Gbps cables". And to be fair when any analytical person looks at the results I got in isolation without the information that Jong1 kindly provided I'm sure they'd come to the same conclusion as I did.

As for the comment about 1's and 0's Otto, if you remember rightly it was you who first mentioned that and I simply agreed with you.

In future I suggest you both try and be more friendly and informative to new members, because invariably young newbies are bound to come here not knowing all the information you've accumulated over the years, and to be ganged up in in the way that two retired men have done to me... one of whom has admitted to being a well educated man... well you should know better to be fair.

But trying to take away some positives from this, it's good to know you've mastered counting to five LOL
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post #1279 of 1336 Old 08-20-2019, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by HDMI_4K_60Hz View Post

As for the comment about 1's and 0's Otto, if you remember rightly it was you who first mentioned that and I simply agreed with you.
Again, you are way off base. What I said was that a digital signal is just 1's and 0's, and those 1's and 0's can not make reds any redder or greens any greener. Go back and read your own post which I posted above. Your premise is that 27Gbps provides more 1's and 0's, therefore producing better pq.

All you have said is that you've tested multiple cables in your system and found that a 27Gbps and/or a 48Gbps cable produced better pq than a Premium High Speed HDMI cable (18Gbps, passive, certified). And all we asked is for you tell us which cables you tested and to post a link to the 27Gbps and 48Gbps cable so we could check ourselves. You seem to have difficulty in relaying that information.

As far as being retired you really should leave those comments to yourself because our age and "work status" has no bearing at all on your unfounded claims.
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post #1280 of 1336 Old 08-20-2019, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by HDMI_4K_60Hz View Post
To be fair I did answer your question indirectly several times when I said that every 27Gbps and 48Gbps HDMI cable I've ever tried worked better than every 18Gbps HDMI cable I ever tried. And this is still true.
Make/models lengths of ALL the cables?
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post #1281 of 1336 Old 08-20-2019, 02:48 PM
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Hmmm you need to take my head space into account. At that point in time Jong1 had not entered the conversation so nobody had provided me with any evidence to show me what I was saying was off tangent. All I had to go off was two unknown people, one of them who kept up selling RuiPro4K cables who I honestly thought sounded like a RuiPro salesman was telling me that all the inadvertent testing I'd ended up doing on HDMI cables was nonsense and all I needed was a RuiPro4K 18Gbps cable.

This got my back up because I thought you were a salesman of RuiPro4K and that you were trying to prevent helpful information becoming known to people who come to this site for help and advice.

When you made the 1's and 0's comment I agreed with you, but I thought you were trying to make the point that if a source is sending 18Gbps worth of 1's and 0's down the HDMI cable that 27Gbps worth of 1's and 0's would not end up coming out the other end, which is obviously true. But this is all before Jong1 got involved so I was purely in the head space of believing all of my own test results, so my instant reaction was yes you're right but if you send 27Gbps of data from the source down a 27Gbps cable then 27Gbps will end up coming out the other side which will give a better picture, or words to that effect with the 22Gbps max hdmi port speed factored into the equation which somebody else had mentioned maybe in this post or another one but I did read that somewhere.

As for links to cables I don't think it's right posting links to products on forums so I won't be doing that but to be fair I probably couldn't remember which ones I bought anyway because many of them look the same these days. I do remember a 27Gbps Monster one though because the name and price both stuck in my mind. Bloody expensive for a cable!!!

As for being retired, maybe it shouldn't matter but personally it makes me respect a person more, especially if I know their background. But when it feels like somebody is repeatedly having a go at me and hiding their experience from me it made me feel like there was no good reason for doing that and it made me lose respect because I honestly believed you and Ratman both didn't want information I believed to be true becoming common knowledge.

Obviously it looks like I was wrong so I apologise for my part in what ended up being a frustrating conversation. But please can newbies be treated more like Jong1 treated me in future because it starts the conversation off on the right foot
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post #1282 of 1336 Old 08-20-2019, 03:08 PM
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You are still a little bit confused about the Ruipro cables. What I've said in the past is that runs up to 20' or so can be successfully done with a Premium High Speed HDMI cable (tested and verified to conform to all HDMI 2.0 hardware specifications). For runs over 20', most AVS'ers have had very good success with the Ruipro4k hybrid fiber cables. I've tested both in my system and found them to perform equally well for ALL HDMI 2.0 specifications at the length that I tested. At my cable length, the hybrid fiber cable is an overkill due to cost. No cable, regardless of mfr claims can be guaranteed to work 100% of the time in any given system. The cable is just the data pipe, it can not alter the signal in any way. That is the function of the HDMI chipsets at the source and sink.

We are always welcoming to newbies because AVS is a continuing learning process, for newbies and retirees alike. We take issue when someone posts what they believe to be factual information and ends up refusing to answer direct questions with questionable data. Just like you suspected me of being a shill for Ruipro, we too thought you were trying to push a specific cable for a specific mfr based on just your own experience. It goes both ways. And the fact that you were posting the same on another Forum just added to that suspicion.

Welcome to AVS and let's hope that you can find a legitimate cable that will work for you and your specific needs. All we can do is recommend based on our experience and knowledge of HDMI (cables, connectors, and protocols).

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post #1283 of 1336 Old 08-20-2019, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by HDMI_4K_60Hz View Post
As for links to cables I don't think it's right posting links to products on forums..
If there is problem, moderators will advise and/or remove.
Feel free to provide the make/models/lengths... a link is not necessary.
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post #1284 of 1336 Old 08-20-2019, 04:34 PM
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HDMI_4K-60Hz
'I've just found them online and they don't appear to have sold more than 20 globally and have hardly any reviews?' - I'm no engineer but I have supplied and installed more than 20 pcs of RuiPro4K Hybrid Fibre and Post No.1 of this thread has a pretty decent test report on many cables

Randman
'fire rating' for long cables is usually required in commercial rather than residential installs, though check your local building regs. Fire rating will usually also include a spec for cable hangers to ensure burning cables do not become a tangle hazard if they drop out of roof voids. Fire rated cables can be pretty stiff and unfriendly to work with.

Ideally you will want to install any long cable in a Conduit or run it alongside a Conduit (with a pull cord installed) as cables can and do fail, get damaged or become obsolete, you can use a fire rated conduit!

Ensure you also run at least one solid core, non-CCA or non-CCS CAT6 cable to the Projector.

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Octava Inc. Multi-cast HD over LAN solutions.

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The Media Factory. Residential and Commercial systems.
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post #1285 of 1336 Old 08-20-2019, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
If there is problem, moderators will advise and/or remove.
Feel free to provide the make/models/lengths... a link is not necessary.
He just posted on AV Forums with the same 27Gbps comment I wish him well.
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post #1286 of 1336 Old 08-21-2019, 02:45 AM
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So which cable do I need which will give me 4K 60Hz HDR10 4:4:4 Chroma on my HDMI 2.0 setup?

It's only a short 3m cable run from a PC to a TV.
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post #1287 of 1336 Old 08-21-2019, 04:02 AM
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If you look at the Cedia chart you will see, sadly, 4K/60 10-bit 4:4:4 is not possible with HDMI 2.0. You will need to wait for HDMI 2.1.

With 4K/60, If you want 4:4:4 you are limited to 8-bit. If you want 10-bit (or 12) you have to drop down to 4:2:2. However, on a TV I think you would be very hard pushed to spot the difference between 4:2:2 and 4:4:4, even with great 4K RGB still photos. All video sources (even 4K HDR Bluray) are actually 4:2:0 anyway, so sending 4:4:4 just involves your source upscaling chroma instead of the TV. There is no guarantee it will do it any better.
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post #1289 of 1336 Old 08-21-2019, 05:22 AM
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Quote:
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But, to be clear, those cables are no use unless you have an HDMI 2.1 source and HDMI 2.1 display. Just changing the cable will not allow 4K/60 10-bit 4:4:4.
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post #1290 of 1336 Old 08-21-2019, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by jong1 View Post
If you look at the Cedia chart you will see, sadly, 4K/60 10-bit 4:4:4 is not possible with HDMI 2.0. You will need to wait for HDMI 2.1.

With 4K/60, If you want 4:4:4 you are limited to 8-bit. If you want 10-bit (or 12) you have to drop down to 4:2:2. However, on a TV I think you would be very hard pushed to spot the difference between 4:2:2 and 4:4:4, even with great 4K RGB still photos. All video sources (even 4K HDR Bluray) are actually 4:2:0 anyway, so sending 4:4:4 just involves your source upscaling chroma instead of the TV. There is no guarantee it will do it any better.
I want to thank you, Otto and Joe for your posts about cables and HDMI versions. You avoid mind numbing technical explanations and give practical advice which is at my level of understanding.

At first I wanted to ask about the technical problems with hybrid fiber for transmitting at longer cable lengths. I did not even understand what hybrid fiber is. So I did an hour of internet google research which led me to this:
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