HDMI CEC Problem - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 7 Old 09-12-2018, 01:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Unhappy HDMI CEC Problem

First post, I think this is the best place? If not please let me know where I should post.

I have a new system:

Sony A1 55" <-> HDMI ARC <-> Onkyo TX-NR686 <-> Apple TV 4K, PlayStation 4 (HDMI3)

My Sony is set to automatically turn off HDMI controlled devices when switched off.

The problem:

The amp is not being turned off correctly when I turn off the TV

1. Turn on PS4, TV and amp comes on and switches to the right port. Amp shows "Game"
2. Turn off TV, PS4 turns off and so does amp. 1 second later, the amp switches back on and shows "TV"

My BRAVIA Sync settings on TV are:

- Auto TV off [x]
- Auto devices on [x]
- Device control keys [None]

Originally, I had Device control keys [Normal], so my TV remote would work, and then changing it to [None] seemed to fix it for a while. Now its just back to the amp coming back on.

I'm assuming the TV is sending a signal after it switches off.

Any ideas greatly appreciated!

Michael
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post #2 of 7 Old 09-12-2018, 03:28 AM
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Turn it all off and simply run an optical cable and get a universal remote or smart power strip instead. Bravia Sync will just continue to ghost your other electronics no matter what you do. My X930E did the exact same thing trying to use ARC and CEC.

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post #3 of 7 Old 09-12-2018, 09:32 AM
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+1. ARC/CEC is a great idea but is fraught with problems, mostly stemming from the CEC side. The basic reason is that the CEC protocols are not standardized so the device mfrs are free to implement them anyway they see fit. And that implementation can change within the same model and mfr after an update. There are no firmware updates that can correct it either. ARC/CEC, in most cases, are on the same chipset so you either disable both or enable both. Some newer devices allow for separate control but all of your HDMI connected devices have to support that.

As mentioned, run optical audio from your tv to the receiver for 5.1 SmartApps or OTA audio and use a programmable remote such as a Harmony for single remote control of your HTS.
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post #4 of 7 Old 09-13-2018, 01:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the advice. However, I wall mounted this, and while I do have the capacity to pull another cable through it's not ideal.

How can CEC not be standardised across manufacturers? Having a feature/protocol that does not consistently work between vendors isn't a standard.

Reply from Onkyo:

Quote:
If you have tried everything from the cables to the firmware, the reset and the CEC controls, it is possible that this function is not fully compatible between all devices. Although it may be offered in all, manufacturer specific differences in protocol - sometimes only after an automatic update - can cause this feature to be unavailable."
What a cop out.

My main issue is wanting everything to power down reliably with one button for my wife, who only really uses the Apple TV and streaming apps (we have no Sky/Virgin/Freeview). The sound and port switching is mostly fine. A Logitech Harmony/similar seems overkill for this, but if I have no choice...
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post #5 of 7 Old 09-13-2018, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeldtaylor View Post
Thanks for the advice. However, I wall mounted this, and while I do have the capacity to pull another cable through it's not ideal.

How can CEC not be standardised across manufacturers? Having a feature/protocol that does not consistently work between vendors isn't a standard.

Reply from Onkyo:



What a cop out.

My main issue is wanting everything to power down reliably with one button for my wife, who only really uses the Apple TV and streaming apps (we have no Sky/Virgin/Freeview). The sound and port switching is mostly fine. A Logitech Harmony/similar seems overkill for this, but if I have no choice...
CEC is an HDMI protocol feature in that it is part of the ratified protocol set, but the actual implementation of that was left up to the mfrs for reasons only known to HDMI.org and the device mfrs. It's similar to the ethernet feature which has been part of the HDMI protocols for quite a few versions now. It's a feature that the device mfrs never embraced so currently, HDMI with ethernet means nothing. eARC and CEC Extensions is supposed to be standardized and part of the HDMI 2.1 protocol set. However, you will need to have the current HDMI 2.1 chipsets on all of your HDMI connected devices to take advantage of the newer protocols. Some mfrs are claiming that their HDMI 2.0b chipsets can be upgraded to HDMI 2.1 (not necessarily full compliance but some) but you'll need to check with your individual device mfrs to see if that's possible.

All of my components are ARC/CEC capable but I stopped using that years ago and instead use an optical cable and a Harmony remote. If your cable run is installed in a conduit (which it should be) with a pull string, then pulling an optical cable should not be difficult at all. However, you'll need to disable CEC which may also disable ARC.
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post #6 of 7 Old 04-01-2020, 07:12 AM
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Something simple we should all try is remove all input items, and just use the TV with the receiver by itself. Maybe one of the items in the input got updated recently and is causing the handshake problem.
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post #7 of 7 Old 04-04-2020, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by jdrsega View Post
Something simple we should all try is remove all input items, and just use the TV with the receiver by itself. Maybe one of the items in the input got updated recently and is causing the handshake problem.

If it's a CEC issue it's due to an incompatibility, which can be caused by an update or non-standardized implementation of CEC. CEC is part of the HDMI option sets, and has to be offered, but how CEC is implemented is up to the device mfr so incompatibilities will occur. The only thing that can be done is to either disable CEC altogether and use a Harmony remote for single remote control or possibly try the Lindy CEC-less adapter which blocks the pin carrying the CEC commands (for want of a better term) and still allows for ARC. It does work in some cases but not all.

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cec , hdml , onkyo 686 , sony a1e

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