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post #1 of 13 Old 05-21-2019, 07:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Question HDMI cable for eARC

I need help with the type of HDMI cable I need to buy.

I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on the Sony A9G and the upcoming Denon AVR-X3600H. Both have eARC.

From hdmi.org:

Quote:
Q: What cable(s) do I need to make use of the eARC feature?
A: Ultra High Speed HDMI Cables are designed to support the new eARC feature in addition to the highest resolution video modes. The Standard HDMI Cable with Ethernet and the High Speed HDMI Cable with Ethernet will also support eARC.
I've searched the web and I cannot find Standard and High Speed HDMI cables that end with words "....with Ethernet".

Do all HDMI cables now come with Ethernet and vendors have just simply removed it from the name?

Last edited by legends92; 05-22-2019 at 07:52 AM.
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post #2 of 13 Old 05-22-2019, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by legends92 View Post
I need help with the type of HDMI cable I need to buy.

I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on the Sony A9G and the upcoming Denon AVR-X3600H. Both have eARC.

From hdmi.org:



I've searched the web and I cannot find Standard and High Speed HDMI cables that end with words "....with Ethernet".

Do all HDMI cables now come with Ethernet and vendors have just simply removed it from the name?

Ethernet has been part of the HDMI hardware specifications for a long time now. Most cable mfrs will mention ethernet in their cable descriptions as a selling feature even though there are no commercial devices that ever embraced that specification.



Don't know where you've looked but most High Speed HDMI (forget Standard HDMI) and Premium High Speed HDMI cables mention ethernet in their cable descriptions. If your cable run is under about 20' then a Premium High Speed HDMI cable (certified with a QR label) will work because ethernet is part of the HDMI 2.0 hardware specifications. If your run is over 20'-25', then you might want to consider a hybrid fiber cable (Ruipro comes to mind). The difference between High Speed HDMI and Premium High Speed HDMI cables is that the Premium cables have been certified by a standardized testing and certification program designed and implemented by HDMI.org. Only passive cables can be certified (the hybrid fiber cables are active) and 25' is the maximum certifiable length.


Keep in mind that the cable is just the data pipe. How well eARC will work is dependent upon how well the HDMI chipsets on the source/sink end will work together and not necessarily the HDMI cable. There is no certification as of yet for eARC on passive cables.



There shouldn't be a problem but eARC is still new.



How long is your cable run?


Further definition from HDMI.org:


Q: Will the existing ARC-enabled products work with new products that use eARC?
A: Maybe. Manufacturers can produce products that are compatible with both eARC and ARC. However, eARC is not defined to be backwards compatible with ARC.

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post #3 of 13 Old 05-22-2019, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
Ethernet has been part of the HDMI hardware specifications for a long time now. Most cable mfrs will mention ethernet in their cable descriptions as a selling feature even though there are no commercial devices that ever embraced that specification.



Don't know where you've looked but most High Speed HDMI (forget Standard HDMI) and Premium High Speed HDMI cables mention ethernet in their cable descriptions. If your cable run is under about 20' then a Premium High Speed HDMI cable (certified with a QR label) will work because ethernet is part of the HDMI 2.0 hardware specifications. If your run is over 20'-25', then you might want to consider a hybrid fiber cable (Ruipro comes to mind). The difference between High Speed HDMI and Premium High Speed HDMI cables is that the Premium cables have been certified by a standardized testing and certification program designed and implemented by HDMI.org. Only passive cables can be certified (the hybrid fiber cables are active) and 25' is the maximum certifiable length.


Keep in mind that the cable is just the data pipe. How well eARC will work is dependent upon how well the HDMI chipsets on the source/sink end will work together and not necessarily the HDMI cable. There is no certification as of yet for eARC on passive cables.



There shouldn't be a problem but eARC is still new.



How long is your cable run?


Further definition from HDMI.org:


Q: Will the existing ARC-enabled products work with new products that use eARC?
A: Maybe. Manufacturers can produce products that are compatible with both eARC and ARC. However, eARC is not defined to be backwards compatible with ARC.
Thank you for the reply. I went back to the HDMI cable from Monoprice and I do see it says
Quote:
Supports extended CEC (Consumer Electronics Control) commands and functions, the HDMI Ethernet Channel, and the Audio Return Channel features
in the description. I need a cable that is around 8 to 9 ft.
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post #4 of 13 Old 05-22-2019, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by legends92 View Post
Thank you for the reply. I went back to the HDMI cable from Monoprice and I do see it says in the description. I need a cable that is around 8 to 9 ft.
Just go with a Premium High Speed HDMI (with the QR label for authenticity). Be mindful of bend radius because you don't want to strain the HDMI input. Keep in mind that the cables are certified to work with ethernet but they have not been specifically tested for eARC. They should work but if they don't it could be the difference in the implementation of eARC by your devices. It also depends on whether you have to have CEC enabled as well. Some devices allow for separate control of CEC and ARC. CEC is still problematic due to lack of standardization so if you need to have CEC enabled on any of your devices for ARC to work, and you have issues, it may be due to the CEC portion.

eARC is technically part of the HDMI 2.1 hardware specification set but should be able to work with the HDMI 2.0 chipsets.

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post #5 of 13 Old 05-23-2019, 05:57 AM
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eARC, in theory, means no reliance on CEC - hopefully making it far more useful on a wider range of systems.

As others are saying it is very early days - if you already have a suitably long cable I would wait until you try that out before ordering anything new.

eARC is pretty untested as yet (apart from in lab tests) - our RuiPro cables have been tested by Simplay Labs for eARC compatibility, will be interesting to see how it goes in the real world.

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post #6 of 13 Old 05-23-2019, 07:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Fernand View Post
eARC, in theory, means no reliance on CEC - hopefully making it far more useful on a wider range of systems.

As others are saying it is very early days - if you already have a suitably long cable I would wait until you try that out before ordering anything new.

eARC is pretty untested as yet (apart from in lab tests) - our RuiPro cables have been tested by Simplay Labs for eARC compatibility, will be interesting to see how it goes in the real world.

Joe
I've been doing some research and I believe I found the answer.

This is from https://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_1/index.aspx

Q: What cable(s) do I need to make use of the eARC feature?
A: Ultra High Speed HDMI Cables are designed to support the new eARC feature in addition to the highest resolution video modes. The Standard HDMI Cable with Ethernet and the High Speed HDMI Cable with Ethernet will also support eARC.

It's been such a struggle finding the right answer. I've emailed many manufacturers of HDMI cables all the way to the companies that sell it. None of them gave me a concrete answer.

Most associate eARC with HDMI 2.1. Fact is that eARC works with HDMI 2.0. Perfect example is the new Sony A9G OLED and the upcoming 2019 Denon AV Receivers.
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post #7 of 13 Old 05-23-2019, 07:39 AM
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Ignore talk of HDMI version numbers and concentrate on supported Features instead.

A quick look at the TV User Manual suggests that it supports eARC and ARC - though the Specs for the HDMI Inputs suggest it does not support uncompressed HD or Immersive audio so not as useful a 'Hub' as other eARC enabled TV's which will potentially support HD and Immersive audio via HDMI Inputs and the eARC Output (when connected to an eARC enabled AVR or audio system).

HDMI.org has historically introduced a New Feature set and often you end up with a 'half way house' with partial implementation on the first round of hardware which 'supports' the New Features.

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post #8 of 13 Old 05-23-2019, 08:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Fernand View Post
Ignore talk of HDMI version numbers and concentrate on supported Features instead.

A quick look at the TV User Manual suggests that it supports eARC and ARC - though the Specs for the HDMI Inputs suggest it does not support uncompressed HD or Immersive audio so not as useful a 'Hub' as other eARC enabled TV's which will potentially support HD and Immersive audio via HDMI Inputs and the eARC Output (when connected to an eARC enabled AVR or audio system).

HDMI.org has historically introduced a New Feature set and often you end up with a 'half way house' with partial implementation on the first round of hardware which 'supports' the New Features.

Joe
One of the reasons I am leaning towards the Sony A9G is that I want my devices to the connect to the TV. From the TV to the AV Receiver. At the same time I don't want the audio to get modified in any way. DTS-HD MA/Dolby TrueHD/Dolby Atmos from the source, through the TV, and to the AV Receiver.
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post #9 of 13 Old 05-23-2019, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by legends92 View Post
One of the reasons I am leaning towards the Sony A9G is that I want my devices to the connect to the TV. From the TV to the AV Receiver. At the same time I don't want the audio to get modified in any way. DTS-HD MA/Dolby TrueHD/Dolby Atmos from the source, through the TV, and to the AV Receiver.

Most of us use the receiver as the hub of our HTS's, not the tv. IOW, all devices are connected to the receiver with just a single HDMI cable going from the receiver to the tv for video only. Historically tv's have had issues passing uncompressed audio from devices connected directly to the tv. That is changing but I've always used the receiver for the audio portion because there are never, or shouldn't be, any issues with decoding the audio formats regardless of what is being presented. I don't bother with the tv's SmartApps and prefer to use an external streaming device.


I have a 65 C8 and use my Yamaha A-780 as the hub. The receiver passes thru all video in its native format so that the C8 can do all of the processing. The same for receiver. I don't need nor use ARC/CEC and all of my cables are certified.

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post #10 of 13 Old 05-23-2019, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
Most of us use the receiver as the hub of our HTS's, not the tv. IOW, all devices are connected to the receiver with just a single HDMI cable going from the receiver to the tv for video only. Historically tv's have had issues passing uncompressed audio from devices connected directly to the tv. That is changing but I've always used the receiver for the audio portion because there are never, or shouldn't be, any issues with decoding the audio formats regardless of what is being presented. I don't bother with the tv's SmartApps and prefer to use an external streaming device.


I have a 65 C8 and use my Yamaha A-780 as the hub. The receiver passes thru all video in its native format so that the C8 can do all of the processing. The same for receiver.
My current setup is a Panasonic TC-P50ST60 and a Denon AVR-X3100W. I have the same configuration as you. Everything to Denon via HDMI and one HDMI cable to the Panasonic.
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'At the same time I don't want the audio to get modified in any way' - the TV wont modify the audio, what it may do is limit which signal formats it will allow you to Input via its HDMI Input sockets. Worth confirming it covers everything you require if you plan to connect the Sources via the TV rather than direct to the AVR.

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post #12 of 13 Old 05-23-2019, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Fernand View Post
'At the same time I don't want the audio to get modified in any way' - the TV wont modify the audio, what it may do is limit which signal formats it will allow you to Input via its HDMI Input sockets. Worth confirming it covers everything you require if you plan to connect the Sources via the TV rather than direct to the AVR.



Joe


Wrong choice of words. What I meant is what you wrote. Thanks.


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post #13 of 13 Old 05-23-2019, 04:12 PM
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Wrong choice of words. What I meant is what you wrote. Thanks.


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As a side note, the term "Ultra" will be used to designate High Speed HDMI cables that can handle the 48Gbps bandwidth for full HDMI 2.1 compliance. Premium High Speed HDMI cables, as we have stated, are certified to handle the 18Gbps bandwidth, which will work just fine for eARC. The term "Ultra High Speed HDMI cables" will be used to differentiate the two. However, most of us would prefer that cable mfrs actually list which HDMI option sets the cables are capable of instead of using confusing terminology. Currently there are no passive cables that have been certified for eARC. It's going to come down to how well the HDMI chipsets in the source and sink devices communicate with each other.



If your run is under 20' then just stick with Premium High Speed HDMI cables. You should be fine.

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