HDMI cables which properly and reliably support 48 Gbps & HDMI 2.1 - Page 11 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #301 of 330 Old 02-22-2020, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by crbdrb View Post
Which 4K cable are you considering running?
As long as you are going over he ceiling add conduit and then you can later easily pull an 8K HDMI cable when the technology settles.

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post #302 of 330 Old 02-22-2020, 07:28 AM
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As long as you are going over he ceiling add conduit and then you can later easily pull an 8K HDMI cable when the technology settles.
I installed conduit when I built the house. Makes running cable possible - Doesn’t make it easy.
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post #303 of 330 Old 02-22-2020, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by crbdrb View Post
I installed conduit when I built the house. Makes running cable possible - Doesn’t make it easy.
Use cable lubricant, Have a second person feed the cable or feed for a short time and then pull:

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post #304 of 330 Old 02-22-2020, 08:31 AM
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Use cable lubricant, Have a second person feed the cable or feed for a short time and then pull: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbQjNcWCwek
I appreciate the input but unfortunately I have a lot of experience in pulling cable. Reality for me is even with conduit, I have a lot of difficult work to run HDMI cables. My equipment/distribution room is not adjacent to my media room. I personally ran over 15,000’ of cable in this house. I just want to run HDMI that will last me a few years, not 6 months. I know me - I will buy an 8k TV capable of inputting 4k120hz, and I will immediately want to replace that cable if it can’t handle it. Am just hoping that an 8K cable sold by a reputable company today will actually meet some of their claims. Seems reasonable.
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post #305 of 330 Old 02-22-2020, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by crbdrb View Post
I appreciate the input but unfortunately I have a lot of experience in pulling cable. Reality for me is even with conduit, I have a lot of difficult work to run HDMI cables. My equipment/distribution room is not adjacent to my media room. I personally ran over 15,000’ of cable in this house. I just want to run HDMI that will last me a few years, not 6 months. I know me - I will buy an 8k TV capable of inputting 4k120hz, and I will immediately want to replace that cable if it can’t handle it. Am just hoping that an 8K cable sold by a reputable company today will actually meet some of their claims. Seems reasonable.
That is not my experience, particularly when I use cable lubricant and have someone to feed the cable while I pull the cable through. But you have a lot of experience and disagree and that is OK by me.

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post #306 of 330 Old 02-22-2020, 09:15 AM
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That is not my experience, particularly when I use cable lubricant and have someone to feed the cable while I pull the cable through. But you have a lot of experience and disagree and that is OK by me.
My situation just isn’t straightforward. You are likely thinking of a single conduit run from source to display. I have conduit to the source. I have conduit to the display. Those do not connect. The various structural obstacles in between made that not possible. The conduit is easy. The rest is not.
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post #307 of 330 Old 02-22-2020, 09:46 AM
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Otto - I'd like to try the Ruipro 'voltage inserter' with the 8K cable to see if it clears up the intermittent stutter with 4KP60 movie. I've never done this. I was surprised to see a 5V usb port on back of Marantz. Never needed this before.

So all I do is insert the usb of the inserter into that 5v port and HDMI connector into my preferred output and plug my Ruipro 40' cable into that connector (which I assume can pass 48Gbps).

Are you absolutely sure this won't blow up my entire system?
My receiver has one USB (5v/1A) on the front I wish it had one on the back as well. No, you won't damage anything on your receiver. The voltage inserters are designed for that very purpose. It supplies a steady, consistent power output to the cable. Just plug the inserter into the HDMI output, the USB portion into the USB output, and then your cable into the inserter. There are no guarantees that it will work but it is designed for that. I didn't see any improvement with the 8k cables that I was evaluating so I'm thinking it's more of a chipset design in the cable than anything else. Ruipro is working on that now that they are back up and running after the Coronavirus epidemic. Hopefully it will work for you.

I've suggested to Ruipro that they put instructions in the box on how to use the voltage inserter because a lot of folks are not familiar with them being as they were not needed with HD (1080), at least in most cases.
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post #308 of 330 Old 02-22-2020, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by crbdrb View Post
My situation just isn’t straightforward. You are likely thinking of a single conduit run from source to display. I have conduit to the source. I have conduit to the display. Those do not connect. The various structural obstacles in between made that not possible. The conduit is easy. The rest is not.
Yes, we have different network structures and layouts. First of all I had the house built in 1980-1981 and made extensive photographs all phases, particularly after the heating/ventilation, plumbing and electrical work was done and before the sheet rock went up. I use roomy two inch conduit. All my Ethernet wiring runs from an equipment cabinet in the laundry/furnace room to wall outlets in the bedrooms, great room and the pool equipment room where the internet comes in and goes up to the equipment cabinet. All my HDMI is run exposed behind an equipment shelf/table which holds the computer, Blu-ray player, Playstation and AVR which is next to the OLED TV panel.

I pulled the cat6a during a remodel in 2016 when sheet rock was off the relevant ceiling and relevant walls.

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post #309 of 330 Old 03-02-2020, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
That's why the last two times I installed cabling in my homes I hired an electrician to run conduit to my specifications. I'm too old to be climbing in the attic space .


Care to share some details of your specifications?


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post #310 of 330 Old 03-02-2020, 03:58 PM
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Care to share some details of your specifications?


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My specs were about as simple as one can get. I had them install 1.5" soft conduit. By that I mean one that was somewhat flexible to work with but did not have inside ridges so nothing could get stuck during a pull. I don't remember what brand of soft conduit they used. Pull stings were added as well and I had them install the solid core CAT-6 cabling one at a time so I could put a colored dot on both ends of the cable for identifiers. Both times were for extending ethernet connections as I have no need for HDBT or long run HDMI because both of my HTS's are on media consoles so the HDMI runs are short and easily accessible. However, the concept is the same if one needed extra coax or long HDMI runs.
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post #311 of 330 Old 03-03-2020, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
My specs were about as simple as one can get. I had them install 1.5" soft conduit. By that I mean one that was somewhat flexible to work with but did not have inside ridges so nothing could get stuck during a pull. I don't remember what brand of soft conduit they used. Pull stings were added as well and I had them install the solid core CAT-6 cabling one at a time so I could put a colored dot on both ends of the cable for identifiers. Both times were for extending ethernet connections as I have no need for HDBT or long run HDMI because both of my HTS's are on media consoles so the HDMI runs are short and easily accessible. However, the concept is the same if one needed extra coax or long HDMI runs.


Junction boxes at the ends or just mid rings with the conduit loose in the wall cavity? Or was the conduit fastened to the studs?


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post #312 of 330 Old 03-03-2020, 12:12 PM
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Junction boxes at the ends or just mid rings with the conduit loose in the wall cavity? Or was the conduit fastened to the studs?


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J-boxes at the end for cable in-use with extra cable curled up inside. The conduit was tacked to the studs if memory serves me correctly.
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post #313 of 330 Old 03-24-2020, 08:04 PM
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I've got a current setup using ARC over about 30m with a Celerity cable on a 5.1.4 setup. Things are working great for 5.1 dolby digital or lower. I've got an xbox one and ps4 plugged directly into the tv. I obviously don't get any of the higher bandwidth formats from the xbox or PSR including anything for atmos.

I'm considering upgrading the setup to use eARC to unlock the formats I currently can't use. I just read through the entire thread. It seems like the ruipro is the consensus top cable - however, most installs are shorter lengths.

Before I buy a cable and get disappointed when it doesn't work, do you all think its realistic to get eARC over 30m? This would be between an LG C9 and a Denon X6500w.
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I've got a current setup using ARC over about 30m with a Celerity cable on a 5.1.4 setup. Things are working great for 5.1 dolby digital or lower. I've got an xbox one and ps4 plugged directly into the tv. I obviously don't get any of the higher bandwidth formats from the xbox or PSR including anything for atmos.

I'm considering upgrading the setup to use eARC to unlock the formats I currently can't use. I just read through the entire thread. It seems like the ruipro is the consensus top cable - however, most installs are shorter lengths.

Before I buy a cable and get disappointed when it doesn't work, do you all think its realistic to get eARC over 30m? This would be between an LG C9 and a Denon X6500w.

30m (90') is tough for any cable, and is going to be very difficult for eARC. The recommendation would be the Ruipro4k cable, and you might want to consider using a voltage inserter in case there are power issues at either end. Be mindful of bend radius. All you can do is try because no one can offer a cable with a 100% guarantee that it will work for all setups. A single cable, source to sink, is recommended with no wall plates, extenders, adapters, etc in-between. There are some reports of a slight degradation in pq with a voltage inserter but that is purely anecdotal at this point in time.

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post #315 of 330 Old 03-24-2020, 08:38 PM
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30m (90') is tough for any cable, and is going to be very difficult for eARC. The recommendation would be the Ruipro4k cable, and you might want to consider using a voltage inserter in case there are power issues at either end. Be mindful of bend radius. All you can do is try because no one can offer a cable with a 100% guarantee that it will work for all setups. A single cable, source to sink, is recommended with no wall plates, extenders, adapters, etc in-between. There are some reports of a slight degradation in pq with a voltage inserter but that is purely anecdotal at this point in time.
Thanks. The celerity cable is powered at both ends via usb and the PQ is incredible. Is it safe to assume that the ruipro cable is better than other options like doing this over ethernet? I've got an extra balun ethernet port behind the tv, but have assumed that would result in handshake issues and other problems versus a fiber cable.
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post #316 of 330 Old 03-24-2020, 09:12 PM
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Thanks. The celerity cable is powered at both ends via usb and the PQ is incredible. Is it safe to assume that the ruipro cable is better than other options like doing this over ethernet? I've got an extra balun ethernet port behind the tv, but have assumed that would result in handshake issues and other problems versus a fiber cable.

I'm surprised that the Celerity cable has worked well for ARC at 30m. There have been numerous reports of the connector ends failing. The Ruipro cables are hybrid fiber. Meaning that they have glass fiber cores surrounded by solid copper wiring. The copper wires are used for the low speed transmission of ARC, HDCP, and EDID protocols which leaves the fiber for the high speed data. Another option would be HDBT using solid copper CAT-6a cable (non-CCA/CCS and not CAT-6 pre-terminated ethernet patch cable). However, I don't know if the HDMI tx/rx units have the latest chipsets in them yet or not. Keep in mind that your best connection is still a single cable without wall plates, adapters, or extenders.

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post #317 of 330 Old 03-26-2020, 04:08 AM
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'Before I buy a cable and get disappointed when it doesn't work, do you all think its realistic to get eARC over 30m?' - the only way to know if eARC is going to work for you is to test, test and test again in your system, no matter if you go RuiPro4K or a 'Next Gen' HDBT solution.

We, TMF, do have customers using the RuiPro4K with ARC, a few had issues which we had to work around. I am not aware of any using them for eARC so far - they may just not have been in touch or mentioned it, we do have customers using eARC at shorter lengths.

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30m (90') is tough for any cable, and is going to be very difficult for eARC.
I should perform better than ARC. The audio is sent as differential and the control data is sent common mode. I'm very curious to see how well these long cables handle eARC.
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Are there any "Certified" Ultra High Speed (48Gbps) HDMI Cables on the market? None of the cables I've seen appear to have the certification logo.
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post #320 of 330 Old 04-22-2020, 12:48 PM
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I should perform better than ARC. The audio is sent as differential and the control data is sent common mode. I'm very curious to see how well these long cables handle eARC.
I too will be interested in seeing how well ANY hybrid fiber cable handles eARC over those distances. In theory, hybrid fiber cables, due to their design, should handle eARC fine but distance and current (at the source or sink end) are still an issue for cable mfrs. I know Ruipro is working really hard to overcome issues beyond 15m, and are just about there, so we'll see.

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post #321 of 330 Old 04-22-2020, 12:57 PM
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Are there any "Certified" Ultra High Speed (48Gbps) HDMI Cables on the market? None of the cables I've seen appear to have the certification logo.
The certification "logo" (the QR label) isn't going to happen for quite some time, if ever. There's only a handful of cable connectors that have passed the CTS testing for the HDMI 2.1 options sets so you need to read very carefully the product specs. In theory, if the cable mfr uses the term "Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable", they have to list which HDMI 2.1 option sets that the cable can handle if they are to use "UHS" HDMI in their marketing and product description. However, the gray area is that even if the connector has passed CTS, that doesn't necessarily mean that the cable itself has been tested. The whole HDMI 2.1 testing is still kinda fuzzy. And there are some cable mfrs who are using "Ultra HDMI Cables" or something similar which sounds like Ultra High Speed but in fact is not. As far as 48Gbps, I wouldn't be too concerned about that yet because HDMI 2.1 chipset that are capable, and have been validated, for that bandwidth are very few and far between, and there isn't any source material that requires that bandwidth yet.
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post #322 of 330 Old 04-22-2020, 01:18 PM
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In theory, if the cable mfr uses the term "Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable", they have to list which HDMI 2.1 option sets that the cable can handle if they are to use "UHS" HDMI in their marketing and product description.
Don't think so. That's only for devices. The hdmi.org website even has this on the home page slide show:

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The only two features an Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable needs to do is 48Gbps and eARC. Both are mandatory for cables. All other HDMI features are just different bit patterns on those two data channels.

But I think the manufacturers are going to slap all those other feature names on their packaging anyways.
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Don't think so. That's only for devices. The hdmi.org website even has this on the home page slide show:

Attachment 2714292

The only two features an Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable needs to do is 48Gbps and eARC. Both are mandatory for cables. All other HDMI features are just different bit patterns on those two data channels.

But I think the manufacturers are going to slap all those other feature names on their packaging anyways.
It was my understanding that anything "HDMI 2.1" related needed to have the option sets listed that the device or cable was capable of. I guess the assumption is for cables that if they are labeled as UHS HDMI, then the 48Gbps bandwidth includes not only eARC but the other option sets for HDMI 2.1, even though eARC is possible on flashed HDMI 2.0 chipsets (18Gbps) and certified Premium High Speed HDMI cables. The HDMI marketing requirements for HDMI 2.1 are very specific in that the option sets do have to be listed that the device (and I assumed that included cables) has been tested or are at least capable of. As with all things that come from HDMI.org, it is going to be very confusing for the average consumer.

I do know that the Ruipro4k hybrid fiber cables are capable of eARC up to 10m due to their design. I've seen the ATC test data but the cables are only marketed as meeting HDMI 2.0 specifications. I fear that there are a lot of folks who think if they invest in a UHS HDMI cable, that they will be able to easily achieve eARC not realizing that the HDMI chipsets are really the deciding factor and not necessarily the cable.

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post #324 of 330 Old 04-22-2020, 04:47 PM
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It was my understanding that anything "HDMI 2.1" related needed to have the option sets listed that the device or cable was capable of. I guess the assumption is for cables that if they are labeled as UHS HDMI, then the 48Gbps bandwidth includes not only eARC but the other option sets for HDMI 2.1, even though eARC is possible on flashed HDMI 2.0 chipsets (18Gbps) and certified Premium High Speed HDMI cables. The HDMI marketing requirements for HDMI 2.1 are very specific in that the option sets do have to be listed that the device (and I assumed that included cables) has been tested or are at least capable of. As with all things that come from HDMI.org, it is going to be very confusing for the average consumer.

I do know that the Ruipro4k hybrid fiber cables are capable of eARC up to 10m due to their design. I've seen the ATC test data but the cables are only marketed as meeting HDMI 2.0 specifications. I fear that there are a lot of folks who think if they invest in a UHS HDMI cable, that they will be able to easily achieve eARC not realizing that the HDMI chipsets are really the deciding factor and not necessarily the cable.
The restriction on not using the version number went way back to 2012, for both cables and devices. With HDMI 2.1 they've loosened that restriction for devices but with the requirement that the feature name needs to go with it. https://web.archive.org/web/20170704...Q09_UPDATE.PDF The FAQ they have is worded ambiguously. I've had one person try to convince me that "HDMI 2.1" by itself meant all HDMI 2.1 features. So a lot can be read into their wording as well.

The higher resolutions just depend on bandwidth ie 48Gbps. The other video related HDMI 2.1 features such as ALLM, VRR, QFT and QMS are just extra flags in the EDID and a longer vertical blanking interval. The place no additional technical requirements on a cable. That's why they can be used with a previous version's physical hardware.

A Premium High Speed HDMI Cable is insufficient for eARC. It must be a Premium High Speed HDMI Cables with Ethernet. Actually, any cable "with Ethernet" will do. The Ethernet channel is mandatory in a Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable.

It is all super confusing. A lot of it is due to the secrecy of the HDMI Specifications. Plus they've really dumbed down their website. It use to be more technical but now it's just a marketing mouthpiece.
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post #325 of 330 Old 04-22-2020, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by avernar View Post

It is all super confusing. A lot of it is due to the secrecy of the HDMI Specifications. Plus they've really dumbed down their website. It use to be more technical but now it's just a marketing mouthpiece.

I agree 100%! Yeah, I know that HDMI.org asked mfrs years ago to drop the HDMI version number from their products because it was just way to confusing, and for awhile it worked. That's where the Premium High Speed HDMI (18Gbps) designation came from for cables and the same for Ultra High Speed HDMI (48Gbps). However, it appears that the mfrs have slowly slipped back into using the HDMI hardware version on the marketing of their cables.

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post #326 of 330 Old 04-22-2020, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
However, it appears that the mfrs have slowly slipped back into using the HDMI hardware version on the marketing of their cables.
All the good manufacturers seem to be following the rules. It's the Amazon resellers and the shady manufacturers that use it. It's actually a good way to tell who to avoid.

Tech blogs are bad for it and sometimes a press release uses it wrong. But otherwise everything seems to be good. I'm curious if you have seen a good manufacturer use it on their website.
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post #327 of 330 Old 04-22-2020, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by avernar View Post
All the good manufacturers seem to be following the rules. It's the Amazon resellers and the shady manufacturers that use it. It's actually a good way to tell who to avoid.

Tech blogs are bad for it and sometimes a press release uses it wrong. But otherwise everything seems to be good. I'm curious if you have seen a good manufacturer use it on their website.
I've only seen one website if memory serves me correctly that had some detailed info but I forget who it was. It is mentioned in one of my other posts on this forum though. I'll see if I can dig it up. I've been recommending Ruipro hybrid fiber cables for some time now because I've seen their product brochures and test data but I don't know it that's available on their website or not.


EDIT: just sent you a pm.

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Last edited by Otto Pylot; 04-22-2020 at 07:50 PM.
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post #328 of 330 Old 04-22-2020, 09:42 PM
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I was using the same cables I bought back in 2005. I also switched from a receiver that was 1.2 HDMI to a newer model that uses 2.0 technology. I switched to 8k 48 gbps cables on a 4K TV. Should I expect to see an improvement in picture? The receiver has 4K pass thru.
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post #329 of 330 Old 04-23-2020, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
FWIW, I was evaluating the Ruipro8k cables, and while they did work on my system, there were some other issues so I discontinued my evaluation until Ruipro got the bugs worked out. I reinstalled the 4k cables and they worked just as good as my old BJC Premium High Speed HDMI cables. I think this batch of Ruipro8k cables wasn't quite ready for prime time as there are some compatibility issues with certain devices.
has ruipro fixed their 8k hdmi cables already?
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post #330 of 330 Old 04-23-2020, 09:11 AM
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has ruipro fixed their 8k hdmi cables already?
Funny you should ask. I just talked to them this morning. They are finally back up and running after basically being shut down for over 2 months at their facility in China. They will be coming out with an improved 4k cable with better performance (thinner, more durable, stronger) in May or June and are working very hard on improving the quality, marketing, and development of the 8k cables. No date yet. They really want to nail down the eARC over distance issue that is plaguing a lot of 8k cable mfrs. I should be getting some of each to test.

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