HDMI cables which properly and reliably support 48 Gbps & HDMI 2.1 - Page 14 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #391 of 415 Old 06-24-2020, 01:56 PM
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Thanks for the feedback! I think I am just going to go with a 4k HDMI cable that will connect directly from the projector the the receiver. I was mostly concerned with the cost of upgrading that cable when the time comes, but that seems far enough down the road to not worry about now.
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post #392 of 415 Old 06-24-2020, 02:23 PM
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Thanks for the feedback! I think I am just going to go with a 4k HDMI cable that will connect directly from the projector the the receiver. I was mostly concerned with the cost of upgrading that cable when the time comes, but that seems far enough down the road to not worry about now.

That's what I would suggest to get you going for now. Also, 4k HDR can be really finicky with its connection so the best connection is a single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between. Be mindful of bend radius as well because you don't want any sharp, 90 degree bends in your run.

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post #393 of 415 Old 06-25-2020, 01:51 PM
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So I am running my conduits for my low voltage connections to my home theater. Next will be actually pulling cables.
Question 1:
1- Can I mix and match the HDMI cables, i.e. Ruipro copper HDMI 2.1 1meter to AVR from Xbox, 1 from DTV box, 1 from disc player and a 10 meter optic HDMI 2.1 from AVR to TV? Or do they have o be optic?


Question 2:
2- It looks like the Ruipro optic HDMI 2.1 cables support ARC and eARC, is that true?
https://www.amazon.com/RUIPRO-Dynami...19&sr=8-3&th=1
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post #394 of 415 Old 06-25-2020, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by john.odonnell01 View Post
So I am running my conduits for my low voltage connections to my home theater. Next will be actually pulling cables.
Question 1:
1- Can I mix and match the HDMI cables, i.e. Ruipro copper HDMI 2.1 1meter to AVR from Xbox, 1 from DTV box, 1 from disc player and a 10 meter optic from AVR to TV? Or do they have o be optic?


Question 2:
2- It looks like the Ruipro optic cables support ARC and eARC, is that true?
https://www.amazon.com/RUIPRO-Dynami...19&sr=8-3&th=1

I've always felt it's best to use the same type of cabling throughout because of the inherent differences between copper only and hybrid fiber. eARC uses the unused "ethernet" wiring scheme so as long as all of your cables have "with ethernet", in theory ARC, and probably eARC will work. Do keep in mind that all of your HDMI chipsets need to be able to support eARC because eARC is a function of HDMI, not the cable. The cable is just the data pipe. eARC is also possible with the HDMI 2.0 chipsets if the mfr chooses to implement that HDMI 2.1 option.


I would cable your system first as a test to make sure it meets your expectations before you run the cables in the conduit.

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post #395 of 415 Old 06-27-2020, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
I've always felt it's best to use the same type of cabling throughout because of the inherent differences between copper only and hybrid fiber. eARC uses the unused "ethernet" wiring scheme so as long as all of your cables have "with ethernet", in theory ARC, and probably eARC will work. Do keep in mind that all of your HDMI chipsets need to be able to support eARC because eARC is a function of HDMI, not the cable. The cable is just the data pipe. eARC is also possible with the HDMI 2.0 chipsets if the mfr chooses to implement that HDMI 2.1 option.


I would cable your system first as a test to make sure it meets your expectations before you run the cables in the conduit.

Otto,


I hear you saying that since I probably need the optic hybrid for the AVR to TV run, I should make all the 3 foot cables component to component in the stand optic hybrid.
NVIDIA, Xbox, DTV, 4k disc player to AVR should all be hybrid to AVR. And AVR to TV needs to be for the 10M run.


Thanks John
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post #396 of 415 Old 06-27-2020, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by john.odonnell01 View Post
Otto,


I hear you saying that since I probably need the optic hybrid for the AVR to TV run, I should make all the 3 foot cables component to component in the stand optic hybrid.
NVIDIA, Xbox, DTV, 4k disc player to AVR should all be hybrid to AVR. And AVR to TV needs to be for the 10M run.


Thanks John
No, that’s is completely unnecessary. Just use 1m/3ft certified high speed hdmi cables for the shorter interconnects

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post #397 of 415 Old 06-27-2020, 11:57 AM
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No, that’s is completely unnecessary. Just use 1m/3ft certified high speed hdmi cables for the shorter interconnects

Correct. It's always best to use the shortest cable possible and at 3', a Premium High Speed HDMI cable will suffice for now. An active hybrid fiber cable at that length is an expensive overkill. I know I said it's always best to use the same cable type throughout but at short lengths you more than likely won't see any performance degradation as long as the cable has the ethernet channel, which it should. Sorry for the confusion.

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post #398 of 415 Old 06-27-2020, 12:04 PM
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Correct. It's always best to use the shortest cable possible and at 3', a Premium High Speed HDMI cable will suffice for now. An active hybrid fiber cable at that length is an expensive overkill. I know I said it's always best to use the same cable type throughout but at short lengths you more than likely won't see any performance degradation as long as the cable has the ethernet channel, which it should. Sorry for the confusion.
Lengths under 3ft/1m should be avoided unless connecting a balun to prevent HDCP clock timing issues.

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post #399 of 415 Old 06-27-2020, 12:48 PM
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Lengths under 3ft/1m should be avoided unless connecting a balun to prevent HDCP clock timing issues.

That may be true but I've had certified connections (BJC Premium cables) at 3' lengths with no issues. It is a good idea if one needs a short connection to extend the length to at least 4' as long as the cable is not bent too drastically. I have been testing for Ruipro their first generation 4k cables for almost a year now at the 1m and 2m lengths and have had zero issues.


The nice thing about the hybrid fiber cables is that they are thin and very flexible. I have mine coiled behind my system so they are neat and out of the way. But again, it comes back to cost.
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post #400 of 415 Old 06-27-2020, 11:01 PM
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I am so itchy to pull the trigger on a 48Gbps 50ft cable. Do we know when some good ones are arriving? The ones I saw on Amazon so far don't inspire much confidence.

And the monoprice one seems a bit overpriced to me. Is the monoprice cable that good?

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post #401 of 415 Old 06-28-2020, 10:03 AM
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I am so itchy to pull the trigger on a 48Gbps 50ft cable. Do we know when some good ones are arriving? The ones I saw on Amazon so far don't inspire much confidence.

And the monoprice one seems a bit overpriced to me. Is the monoprice cable that good?

You won't get any better performance out of a "48Gbps" cable than you will an 18Gbps cable but if you just have to have one now, Ruipro will be coming out with their next iteration of their 8k cable probably around August. Nobody can give you a 100% guarantee that their cable is going to meet your needs and expectations because all setups (cable install, connected devices, HDMI chipsets, etc) are all different so what works well for one, may not work well (or reliably) for another. It's still trial and error especially if one is hell bent on getting a cable that is supposedly 48Gbps (which implies HDMI 2.1). Ruipro makes very good cables that are reliable and their customer support is excellent so that's why that is the cable we recommend for long runs with hybrid fiber. But, they had some issues with their first iteration of 8k cables and that's why they went back to the drawing board and designed the second iteration. The pandemic didn't help either with facilities shutting down for long periods of time so everything is behind schedule. If you have an adequate conduit installed with pull strings then swapping out your cabling shouldn't be too difficult when the time comes.



Rule of thumb: the cable is just the data pipe. It's the HDMI chipsets at the source and sink end that determine what you can receive, or not receive.
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post #402 of 415 Old 06-28-2020, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Soul_ View Post
I am so itchy to pull the trigger on a 48Gbps 50ft cable. Do we know when some good ones are arriving? The ones I saw on Amazon so far don't inspire much confidence.

And the monoprice one seems a bit overpriced to me. Is the monoprice cable that good?




You won't get any better performance out of a "48Gbps" cable than you will an 18Gbps cable but if you just have to have one now, Ruipro will be coming out with their next iteration of their 8k cable probably around August. Nobody can give you a 100% guarantee that their cable is going to meet your needs and expectations because all setups (cable install, connected devices, HDMI chipsets, etc) are all different so what works well for one, may not work well (or reliably) for another. It's still trial and error especially if one is hell bent on getting a cable that is supposedly 48Gbps (which implies HDMI 2.1). Ruipro makes very good cables that are reliable and their customer support is excellent so that's why that is the cable we recommend for long runs with hybrid fiber. But, they had some issues with their first iteration of 8k cables and that's why they went back to the drawing board and designed the second iteration. The pandemic didn't help either with facilities shutting down for long periods of time so everything is behind schedule. If you have an adequate conduit installed with pull strings then swapping out your cabling shouldn't be too difficult when the time comes.



Rule of thumb: the cable is just the data pipe. It's the HDMI chipsets at the source and sink end that determine what you can receive, or not receive.


Thanks for answering the speculation on ruipro dates.
I feel like we spoke about why I am buying 48gbps cable now Otto. I am moving my tv another 10 feet so my current 25ft cable won’t cut it anymore. Since I am buying a new longer cable, I much rather buy 48gbps for HDMI 2.1 phy rather than change again in sept when new GPUs arrive.


As for the guarantee part, I sure hope that they deliver what they promise. As per my posted question, it is hard to trust these random vendors.

Is mono price 48gbps active cable a good buy at its current price?

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post #403 of 415 Old 06-28-2020, 09:18 PM
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Thanks for answering the speculation on ruipro dates.
I feel like we spoke about why I am buying 48gbps cable now Otto. I am moving my tv another 10 feet so my current 25ft cable won’t cut it anymore. Since I am buying a new longer cable, I much rather buy 48gbps for HDMI 2.1 phy rather than change again in sept when new GPUs arrive.


As for the guarantee part, I sure hope that they deliver what they promise. As per my posted question, it is hard to trust these random vendors.

Is mono price 48gbps active cable a good buy at its current price?

I can't answer the Monoprice question because I don't know where they get the cable from. Monoprice is not a cable mfr so they could get their cables from anywhere and put their name on it. Ruipro is a cable mfr with control over the development and mfr'ing of their cables. Testing is done by an outside testing facility that is approved by HDMI.org (an ATC).


We have discussed this before and all I can tell you is if you want a cable that claims 48Gbps you would probably be best to wait until the new iteration of the Ruipro 8k cable is ready. The last data sheet I saw from Ruipro indicated that their 8k cable tested at 50Gbps so I can only assume that the "new" cable shipping in a couple of months will test out at the same bandwidth. It's still meaningless until all of your HDMI connected devices have certified HDMI 2.1 chipsets in them, which will be standardized to 48Gbps to meet the HDMI.org ratified HDMI option sets for HDMI 2.1.



Even Ruipro can't give you a 100% guarantee that their cable will meet your expectations with your setup and cable distance. Nobody can. Video technology will always outpace connection technology so until everyone is on the same page, it's still going to be a bit of trial and error. Ruipro cables are, and will be, expensive but they are probably the best bet so far.

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post #404 of 415 Old 06-29-2020, 06:05 AM
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Lengths under 3ft/1m should be avoided unless connecting a balun to prevent HDCP clock timing issues.

Thanks Otto
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post #405 of 415 Old 06-29-2020, 07:52 AM
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Thanks Otto

You're welcome but I think you meant to thank TrendSetterX, at least I think so.

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I can't answer the Monoprice question because I don't know where they get the cable from. Monoprice is not a cable mfr so they could get their cables from anywhere and put their name on it. Ruipro is a cable mfr with control over the development and mfr'ing of their cables. Testing is done by an outside testing facility that is approved by HDMI.org (an ATC).


We have discussed this before and all I can tell you is if you want a cable that claims 48Gbps you would probably be best to wait until the new iteration of the Ruipro 8k cable is ready. The last data sheet I saw from Ruipro indicated that their 8k cable tested at 50Gbps so I can only assume that the "new" cable shipping in a couple of months will test out at the same bandwidth.

Thanks. This all makes sense.


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It's still meaningless until all of your HDMI connected devices have certified HDMI 2.1 chipsets in them, which will be standardized to 48Gbps to meet the HDMI.org ratified HDMI option sets for HDMI 2.1.

Even Ruipro can't give you a 100% guarantee that their cable will meet your expectations with your setup and cable distance. Nobody can. Video technology will always outpace connection technology so until everyone is on the same page, it's still going to be a bit of trial and error. Ruipro cables are, and will be, expensive but they are probably the best bet so far.

I think this where I disagree with you a little. If they specify supported specifications and Bandwidth at certain length, it should not matter which end point device I use, as long as all devices meet the specs. And to what I understand, HDMI 2.0 it is a backward compatible specification subset included in HDMI 2.1. So, if they promise it is HDMI 2.1 and provide 48 or 50Gbps at 50ft, that should be a guarantee to support both HDMI 2.0 and HDMI 2.1. This should be defacto expectation. If not, it is false advertisement and could be something of an interest to FTC. Everything else IMHO is just an excuse.

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post #407 of 415 Old 06-29-2020, 11:30 AM
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I think this where I disagree with you a little. If they specify supported specifications and Bandwidth at certain length, it should not matter which end point device I use, as long as all devices meet the specs. And to what I understand, HDMI 2.0 it is a backward compatible specification subset included in HDMI 2.1. So, if they promise it is HDMI 2.1 and provide 48 or 50Gbps at 50ft, that should be a guarantee to support both HDMI 2.0 and HDMI 2.1. This should be defacto expectation. If not, it is false advertisement and could be something of an interest to FTC. Everything else IMHO is just an excuse.

All backwards compatibility means is that the HDMI chipsets will work to the point of the in-common option sets. In other words, an HDMI 2.1 device connected to an HDMI 2.0 device will work for the HDMI 2.0 option sets but probably, and most likely, not for the HDMI 2.1 options sets. What you can do (transmit/receive) is almost entirely dependent on the HDMI chipsets, not the cable. The cable just pushes the data that it is sent and leaves decoding/encoding up to the HDMI chipsets. HDMI 2.1 is basically a list of options for the new format. All of the options available under HDMI 2.1 are not required for HDMI 2.1, so the device/chip mfr is free to implement whichever options they want to as long as they list which option sets are available. The cable has nothing to do with it other than it has been tested (in a laboratory environment with pattern generators and not on consumer devices) to meet CTS. How that translates to a real world setting (consumer's hands) has yet to be proven.


Cable marketing has been very misleading ever since the transition from HDMI 1.4 to 2.0. Carefully worded marketing and product descriptions has just been short of outright false advertising in my opinion. Especially with the bulk of Chinese counterfeit cables and the fact that resellers like Amazon just don't have the resources to "fact check" if you will the claims from the cable mfrs that they resell for. Even reputable resellers like Monoprice have questionable cables that slip thru from time to time. Unless you know how the cable was tested the claims have to be taken with a grain of salt. 50Gbps at 50' could be a single cable from a specific lot tested in a straight line. If it passes, then the entire lot is validated for that distance. Or, do they take a representative sampling from a given lot, coil the cable to mimic bending, and then test. And if the cable is active, that brings in a whole other set of complications.
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post #408 of 415 Old 06-29-2020, 11:44 AM
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Lengths under 3ft/1m should be avoided unless connecting a balun to prevent HDCP clock timing issues.
Agreed. Quoting HDFury from their Vertex2 Owner's Thread: "For copper cable, min 6ft / max12ft (a bit short or a bit longer can still work, but sticking to these min/max will ensure better reliability)
if you need longer length consider fiber or active."

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All backwards compatibility means is that the HDMI chipsets will work to the point of the in-common option sets. In other words, an HDMI 2.1 device connected to an HDMI 2.0 device will work for the HDMI 2.0 option sets but probably, and most likely, not for the HDMI 2.1 options sets. What you can do (transmit/receive) is almost entirely dependent on the HDMI chipsets, not the cable. The cable just pushes the data that it is sent and leaves decoding/encoding up to the HDMI chipsets. HDMI 2.1 is basically a list of options for the new format. All of the options available under HDMI 2.1 are not required for HDMI 2.1, so the device/chip mfr is free to implement whichever options they want to as long as they list which option sets are available. The cable has nothing to do with it other than it has been tested (in a laboratory environment with pattern generators and not on consumer devices) to meet CTS. How that translates to a real world setting (consumer's hands) has yet to be proven.
Agreed on this. This why I say that whatever they publish should be tested by them, and if it doesn't work as mentioned (on cable's specs) it is false advertisement. I am PEng. by education and trade, and believe me, I have seen my share of people who expect one device in chain to magically transform their system. I don't think that logical people would think that. The point being, specifications promised by the cable must be supported by the cable, and if end point devices support them they can use them.

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Cable marketing has been very misleading ever since the transition from HDMI 1.4 to 2.0. Carefully worded marketing and product descriptions has just been short of outright false advertising in my opinion. Especially with the bulk of Chinese counterfeit cables and the fact that resellers like Amazon just don't have the resources to "fact check" if you will the claims from the cable mfrs that they resell for. Even reputable resellers like Monoprice have questionable cables that slip thru from time to time. Unless you know how the cable was tested the claims have to be taken with a grain of salt. 50Gbps at 50' could be a single cable from a specific lot tested in a straight line. If it passes, then the entire lot is validated for that distance. Or, do they take a representative sampling from a given lot, coil the cable to mimic bending, and then test. And if the cable is active, that brings in a whole other set of complications.
Exactly this point. This is why I am not buying the random Amazon cables. My trust in them is low for active cables, and the reason why I asked my original question.

Hopefully RuiPro can get their stuff in line for delivery soon.

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Hopefully RuiPro can get their stuff in line for delivery soon.

I've asked Ruipro for any updates on the 8k cable (as well as their two, new 4k cables) so I'm waiting to hear back from them. They are still trying to get back up to speed from being shutdown after CV-19.

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I've asked Ruipro for any updates on the 8k cable (as well as their two, new 4k cables) so I'm waiting to hear back from them. They are still trying to get back up to speed from being shutdown after CV-19.
Sounds good, and let us know how it goes.

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Sounds good, and let us know how it goes.

I will. I did do some limited testing on a few of their first gen 8k cables and they seemed to work just fine at the short lengths that I tested, but there were a few issues that Ruipro wanted to address so that's why they went back to the drawing board and are coming out with the new iteration. However, there still won't be a way for a consumer to test the bandwidth until chipsets and source material that require it are available, and that's still a ways off.
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post #413 of 415 Old 07-09-2020, 09:15 AM
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Anyone here know if this cable really is the full 48Gbps?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...CLHZDYA7&psc=1

I saw some ultra slim Monoprice that were 48Gbps, but they were only 3'.

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post #414 of 415 Old 07-09-2020, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by HeisenbergABQ View Post
Anyone here know if this cable really is the full 48Gbps?
I would not buy any cable marketed as "HDMI 2.1". Legit cable manufacturers are not allowed to use that to advertise their cables.
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post #415 of 415 Old 07-09-2020, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by avernar View Post
I would not buy any cable marketed as "HDMI 2.1". Legit cable manufacturers are not allowed to use that to advertise their cables.

I agree. While the cable length is within the range for passive HDMI cables that meet the HDMI 2.1 option sets, that's about all it has going for it. The poster would be better off just getting a Premium High Speed HDMI cable and be done with it. Amazon will sell anything without checking specs or claims.
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