HDMI cables which properly and reliably support 48 Gbps & HDMI 2.1 - Page 6 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #151 of 184 Old 10-29-2019, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
This thread is for discussing all HDMI v2.1 cables which properly and reliably support 48 Gbps & HDMI 2.1, not just the longer length cables. However, as far as which cables I will be including within my initial evaluation and testing exercise, for the reasons that I have already explained, this will be focusing on the longer length cables. If for whatever reason there is a subset of shorter length cables that fall outside of the official certification and testing, and as such also require testing then I will test these as well.
Any recommendation for a shorter length cable that meets the 2.1 spec? Looking for one in the 8-10 foot range. Thank you!

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post #152 of 184 Old 10-30-2019, 06:12 AM
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This one should work for you and I hope one of the guys with proper equipment can eventually get it tested, since 10ft is the shortest of the bunch:

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=38629
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post #153 of 184 Old 10-30-2019, 10:16 AM
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@davidag02 and @lcrava

There are no cables yet that are guaranteed to meet the HDMI 2.1 feature sets, period. Just because a cable has been tested for 48Gbps doesn't mean that it can successfully transmit the HDMI 2.1 features that require that bandwidth without any errors, regardless of the cable mfr claims. The biggest issue in testing and possibly validating cables for the HDMI 2.1 feature sets is that there are no consumer devices yet that have validated HDMI 2.1 chipsets installed, so it's very difficult to determine if the cable will perform as expected in a real world setting and not just in a sterile testing environment. Reputable cable mfrs are continually testing and tweaking their cables/chipsets so that when validated consumer devices are available, they are ready for the final test. It's coming, but not quite yet. Besides, source content that takes advantage of the full HDMI 2.1 feature sets doesn't really exist yet so there's still time.

HDMI.org states in their HDMI 2.1 documentation that the maximum cable length for passive cables will be 1m - 3m (3' - 9'). However, my guess is that to achieve full 48Gbps on a copper-only passive cable the wire gauge will be thicker, which introduces its own set of issues. Active cables will probably be the way to go with hybrid fiber cables being the most reliable, especially over longer lengths.

If you have easy access to your cabling, then I would just purchase a cable that meets the HDMI 2.0 hardware specifications now, and then once HDMI 2.1 devices and sources are in the wild, upgrade your cabling to one that has been shown, in the hands of consumers, to work as expected for the HDMI 2.1 feature sets. Ruipro will be coming out with their 8k cable (Ruipro8k) hopefully by December, which is being actively tested by an ATC for the HDMI 2.1 feature sets. However, being as it is an active cable, HDMI.org does not allow for "certification" yet like they do for the Premium High Speed cables (18Gbps) so the cables will probably be labeled as Ultra High Speed HDMI. Unfortunately I don't believe that HDMI.org has registered that name like they did for the Premium marketing, so cable mfrs (at least most of them) are using that term in their marketing and product description without offering the consumer any test data (laboratory testing) to back up their claims. If you are concerned with eARC and VRR, which are part of the HDMI 2.1 feature sets, they are possible on the HDMI 2.0 chipsets if the device mfr built-in the ability for a firmware upgrade. Some tv mfrs (LG) are claiming that their HDMI 2.1 tv's will be able to upgraded to full HDMI 2.1 at a future date so that's something to consider.

Install your cabling in a conduit if you don't have easy access (in-wall installation for example) because that will be the ONLY way to future proof your cabling.

The cable is just the data pipe. How well one can utilize the HDMI 2.1 feature sets will be determined by the HDMI chipsets in the source and sink ends.

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post #154 of 184 Old 10-30-2019, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
@davidag02 and @lcrava

There are no cables yet that are guaranteed to meet the HDMI 2.1 feature sets, period. Just because a cable has been tested for 48Gbps doesn't mean that it can successfully transmit the HDMI 2.1 features that require that bandwidth without any errors, regardless of the cable mfr claims. The biggest issue in testing and possibly validating cables for the HDMI 2.1 feature sets is that there are no consumer devices yet that have validated HDMI 2.1 chipsets installed, so it's very difficult to determine if the cable will perform as expected in a real world setting and not just in a sterile testing environment. Reputable cable mfrs are continually testing and tweaking their cables/chipsets so that when validated consumer devices are available, they are ready for the final test. It's coming, but not quite yet. Besides, source content that takes advantage of the full HDMI 2.1 feature sets doesn't really exist yet so there's still time.

HDMI.org states in their HDMI 2.1 documentation that the maximum cable length for passive cables will be 1m - 3m (3' - 9'). However, my guess is that to achieve full 48Gbps on a copper-only passive cable the wire gauge will be thicker, which introduces its own set of issues. Active cables will probably be the way to go with hybrid fiber cables being the most reliable, especially over longer lengths.

If you have easy access to your cabling, then I would just purchase a cable that meets the HDMI 2.0 hardware specifications now, and then once HDMI 2.1 devices and sources are in the wild, upgrade your cabling to one that has been shown, in the hands of consumers, to work as expected for the HDMI 2.1 feature sets. Ruipro will be coming out with their 8k cable (Ruipro8k) hopefully by December, which is being actively tested by an ATC for the HDMI 2.1 feature sets. However, being as it is an active cable, HDMI.org does not allow for "certification" yet like they do for the Premium High Speed cables (18Gbps) so the cables will probably be labeled as Ultra High Speed HDMI. Unfortunately I don't believe that HDMI.org has registered that name like they did for the Premium marketing, so cable mfrs (at least most of them) are using that term in their marketing and product description without offering the consumer any test data (laboratory testing) to back up their claims. If you are concerned with eARC and VRR, which are part of the HDMI 2.1 feature sets, they are possible on the HDMI 2.0 chipsets if the device mfr built-in the ability for a firmware upgrade. Some tv mfrs (LG) are claiming that their HDMI 2.1 tv's will be able to upgraded to full HDMI 2.1 at a future date so that's something to consider.

Install your cabling in a conduit if you don't have easy access (in-wall installation for example) because that will be the ONLY way to future proof your cabling.

The cable is just the data pipe. How well one can utilize the HDMI 2.1 feature sets will be determined by the HDMI chipsets in the source and sink ends.
Although I can appreciate to some extent your lengthy explanation as well as the pages and pages of discussion on the topic (which to be frank has not much to do with the thread title or purpose, since NOTHING has been tested or presented), which we can all see present in this very thread, the bottom line is there are those of us who have equipment with HDMI 2.1 features today in need of a cable to connect it (LG C9>Ambeo Soundbar (eARC), PC w/ 2080Ti (w/ g-Sync enabled) so all the pages and pages of discussion and explanations are borderline useless.

Some of us need a 2.1 cable now and after reading this whole thread with its tons of impractical, strictly theoretical discussions (even though there are tons of HDMI 2.1 cables being sold, somehow even a single one has yet to be tested) and all this back and forth and an answer like yours is of absolutely no help whatsoever.

I do not wish to be disrespectful to you, albeit there is absolutely nothing new on your post that has not already been covered repeatedly in the last 6 pages of this thread and the one thing missing from your answer is an actual HDMI 2.1 cable recommendation. Ruipro is hardly the only reputable company out there, but somehow seems to be all you are capable of talking about. The Monoprice cable works flawlessly with the C9, correctly doing VRR and eARC. I can’t do other tests since I do not have the necessary equipment.

Ruipro 8K is vaporware at this point and if we needed a 2.0 cable, we would’ve asked for one instead and most likely be directed to the appropriate thread.
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post #155 of 184 Old 10-30-2019, 11:47 AM
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And for the love of god, stop giving people wrong information. LG OLEDS have FULL HARDWARE HDMI 2.1 ports. Firmware updates simply tweak how it functions with other hardware that even though have HDMI 2.1 features such as eARC, ALLM, VRR and even HFR (in case of the 2080Ti) are all still stuck with HDMI 2.0 ports, being where most compatibility problems stem from (no matter how much the HDMI standard claims to be backwards compatible, that is hardly the case).
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post #156 of 184 Old 10-30-2019, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by lcrava View Post
And for the love of god, stop giving people wrong information. LG OLEDS have FULL HARDWARE HDMI 2.1 ports. Firmware updates simply tweak how it functions with other hardware that even though have HDMI 2.1 features such as eARC, ALLM, VRR and even HFR (in case of the 2080Ti) are all still stuck with HDMI 2.0 ports, being where most compatibility problems stem from (no matter how much the HDMI standard claims to be backwards compatible, that is hardly the case).
From rtings review: The LG C9 also supports HDMI 2.1 on all four ports, although there is currently little advantage to this, as there are no HDMI 2.1 sources available. Full HDMI 2.0 bandwidth is advertised but no mention of full HDMI 2.1 bandwidth advertised, yet. ALLM was tested but not VRR.

I have a 65 C8 which is no doubt the best tv I've ever owned, so I'm an LG fan. In fact, the downstairs theater system is built around an older LG LCD. The HDMI 2.1 ports on the C9 will be firmware upgraded to meet the HDMI 2.1 specs as they become available on other devices but that is going to take time. Backwards compatibility only means that the in-common HDMI feature sets will be supported. There is nothing wrong with purchasing a C9 now because full HDMI 2.1 will eventually be available, source as well as devices, but not widely until probably late 2020 or early 2021.

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post #157 of 184 Old 10-30-2019, 12:35 PM
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And for the love of god, stop giving people wrong information. LG OLEDS have FULL HARDWARE HDMI 2.1 ports.
No, they don't. You have gotten caught up in the marketing hype of HDMI 2.1 and are missing the facts. Your 2019 LG OLED undeniably and unequivocally does NOT have full HDMI 2.1 support. It has support for SOME of the 2.1 capabilities and based on everything that I've been able to find, the most it will be able to handle are the uncompressed formats up to 48gbps (meaning it won't support the higher 2.1 resolutions that require DSC). What it will support "by firmware update" is a complete crap shoot and likely won't ever include the higher resolution compressed formats. So please stop with your drama and calling out the folks here who have a bit more knowledge than you on the subject.

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post #158 of 184 Old 10-30-2019, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by lcrava View Post
And for the love of god, stop giving people wrong information. LG OLEDS have FULL HARDWARE HDMI 2.1 ports. Firmware updates simply tweak how it functions with other hardware that even though have HDMI 2.1 features such as eARC, ALLM, VRR and even HFR (in case of the 2080Ti) are all still stuck with HDMI 2.0 ports, being where most compatibility problems stem from (no matter how much the HDMI standard claims to be backwards compatible, that is hardly the case).
From rtings review: The LG C9 also supports HDMI 2.1 on all four ports, although there is currently little advantage to this, as there are no HDMI 2.1 sources available. Full HDMI 2.0 bandwidth is advertised but no mention of full HDMI 2.1 bandwidth advertised, yet. ALLM was tested but not VRR.

I have a 65 C8 which is no doubt the best tv I've ever owned, so I'm an LG fan. In fact, the downstairs theater system is built around an older LG LCD. The HDMI 2.1 ports on the C9 will be firmware upgraded to meet the HDMI 2.1 specs as they become available on other devices but that is going to take time. Backwards compatibility only means that the in-common HDMI feature sets will be supported. There is nothing wrong with purchasing a C9 now because full HDMI 2.1 will eventually be available, source as well as devices, but not widely until probably late 2020 or early 2021.
Again, please stop disseminating wrong information.

This looks a lot like an exerpt from rtings.com review of the C9 back in the first semester of 2019.

VRR can now be fully tested as long as tou have a PC with a G-Sync capable video card connected to it, and yet, even a RTX Titan only has HDMI 2.0b ports.

Lastly, the HDMI 2.1 ports on the 2019 OLEDS are FULL HARDWARE 2.1 PORTS and the firmware updates are not enabling anything, they are simply fixing backward compatibility issues because there is no other equipment with FULL HARDWARE 2.1 PORTS that can be connected to it.
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post #159 of 184 Old 10-30-2019, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by lcrava View Post
And for the love of god, stop giving people wrong information. LG OLEDS have FULL HARDWARE HDMI 2.1 ports.
No, they don't. You have gotten caught up in the marketing hype of HDMI 2.1 and are missing the facts. Your 2019 LG OLED undeniably and unequivocally does NOT have full HDMI 2.1 support. It has support for SOME of the 2.1 capabilities and based on everything that I've been able to find, the most it will be able to handle are the uncompressed formats up to 48gbps (meaning it won't support the higher 2.1 resolutions that require DSC). What it will support "by firmware update" is a complete crap shoot and likely won't ever include the higher resolution compressed formats. So please stop with your drama and calling out the folks here who have a bit more knowledge than you on the subject.
How about you stay on topic, be useful and give out some recommendations of good HDMI 2.1 cables to the people that ask for it?

While you’re at it, in your infinite wisdom, please share with us a DSC enabled display that any of us can buy today so you can at least somehow substantiate your claim.

I have no doubt theres a lot of people here that know more than I do, but clearly you are not one of them.
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post #160 of 184 Old 10-30-2019, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by lcrava View Post
Some of us need a 2.1 cable now and after reading this whole thread with its tons of impractical, strictly theoretical discussions (even though there are tons of HDMI 2.1 cables being sold, somehow even a single one has yet to be tested) and all this back and forth and an answer like yours is of absolutely no help whatsoever.

I do not wish to be disrespectful to you, albeit there is absolutely nothing new on your post that has not already been covered repeatedly in the last 6 pages of this thread and the one thing missing from your answer is an actual HDMI 2.1 cable recommendation. Ruipro is hardly the only reputable company out there, but somehow seems to be all you are capable of talking about. The Monoprice cable works flawlessly with the C9, correctly doing VRR and eARC. I can’t do other tests since I do not have the necessary equipment.

Ruipro 8K is vaporware at this point and if we needed a 2.0 cable, we would’ve asked for one instead and most likely be directed to the appropriate thread.
Cables and cable connectors are currently being tested. CTS testing for the connectors have been going on for quite sometime now. Connectors and cables are being tested by ATC's (Authorized Testing Centers) following equipment and protocols as designed and specified by HDMI.org. HDMI in general has been a pain in the a$$ since it was first forced upon us and HDMI.org has not made that any easier with the certification processes (passive can be certified but not active). No cable mfr can guarantee 100% of the time that their cable will work for any given setup, including certified cables. But certification, if it is standardized, at least gives the consumer something to start with.

We mention Ruipro a lot because that is the one cable mfr that has received the most positive reviews by actual users here on AVS for their hybrid fiber Ruipro4k cable and long distances. I have seen the testing data and use their 4k cables now in my systems and they perform as well as the Premium High Speed HDMI cables that are certified by HDMI.org. There is no reason at this point in time to think that their 8k cables won't perform as expected once devices and source material is widely available. Ruipro is actively testing their cables with Simplay Labs, which is an ATC, as well as independent testing by ARROW-AV. They are not rushing their cables to market, like others are, until they are satisfied that CTS and performance testing meet their standards. eARC and VRR can be accomplished with HDMI 2.0 so to use those two criteria as "proof" that a cable meets HDMI 2.1 is a bit misleading.

Bottom line, we can't recommend a specific cable that meets HDMI 2.1 criteria because there aren't any. And the ones that do indicate that, it's almost impossible to find out how they validated their claims. If you find a cable that works for you that's all that matters but it's going to be a lot of trial and error.

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post #161 of 184 Old 10-30-2019, 01:21 PM
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Lastly, the HDMI 2.1 ports on the 2019 OLEDS are FULL HARDWARE 2.1 PORTS and the firmware updates are not enabling anything, they are simply fixing backward compatibility issues because there is no other equipment with FULL HARDWARE 2.1 PORTS that can be connected to it.
Nope. The firmware upgrades will be to enable the feature sets as soon as they are fully tested and ready to go. An HDMI input that is capable of the full HDMI 2.1 feature sets connected to an HDMI 2.0 source will only be able to use the in-common feature sets of HDMI 2.0. The "unused" feature sets, for want of a better term, will be ignored. For any HDMI 2.1 device, (including cables) to fully support all of what HDMI 2.1 has to offer, those feature sets must be listed if "HDMI 2.1" is used in the description. This is in accordance with HDMI Marketing and Product Description Guidelines. HDMI 2.1 can be used in the marketing if eARC, ALLM, VRR, etc are mentioned as well but that is not to be interpreted as meeting ALL of the HDMI 2.1 feature sets.

HDMI 2.1 is just the title of a specification document. What has to be listed is which feature sets in that document have been validated to work with a specific device or cable.

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post #162 of 184 Old 10-30-2019, 01:25 PM
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I did find a cable that works, someone asked for a recommendation and I gave it.

From a company that also has good reviews, good value and has mostly tried so far to attain every HDMI certification that this atrocious standard had put forth so far.

Like I said, the ONLY display in the market today with FULL BANDWITH HARDWARE LEVEL HDMI 2.1 ports are LGs displays and there are no FULL BANDWITH sources to connect to it. Want proof? Find out the range of VRR on HDMI 2.0 and the range of VRR of HDMI 2.1 and maybe you’ll start to understand.

I build custom computers for a living for all kinds of purposes and situations and mostly deal with computer monitors, that are far more advanced that any consumer TV out there now or in the near future.

To start theorizing about the future functionality and all this other random stuff when someone asks for a recommendation of something that works today is completely useless and extremely unhelpful.

Almost as useless as talking about DSC (which was initially created by VESA for DisplayPort, which is far superior than HDMI in every aspect) and then talking down to people as if you have more knowledge than them. DSC in HDMI is an intention, a hope and a dream at this point, nothing more.
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post #163 of 184 Old 10-30-2019, 01:33 PM
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Lastly, the HDMI 2.1 ports on the 2019 OLEDS are FULL HARDWARE 2.1 PORTS and the firmware updates are not enabling anything, they are simply fixing backward compatibility issues because there is no other equipment with FULL HARDWARE 2.1 PORTS that can be connected to it.
Nope. The firmware upgrades will be to enable the feature sets as soon as they are fully tested and ready to go. An HDMI input that is capable of the full HDMI 2.1 feature sets connected to an HDMI 2.0 source will only be able to use the in-common feature sets of HDMI 2.0. The "unused" feature sets, for want of a better term, will be ignored. For any HDMI 2.1 device, (including cables) to fully support all of what HDMI 2.1 has to offer, those feature sets must be listed if "HDMI 2.1" is used in the description. This is in accordance with HDMI Marketing and Product Description Guidelines. HDMI 2.1 can be used in the marketing if eARC, ALLM, VRR, etc are mentioned as well but that is not to be interpreted as meeting ALL of the HDMI 2.1 feature sets.

HDMI 2.1 is just the title of a specification document. What has to be listed is which feature sets in that document have been validated to work with a specific device or cable.
Seems that you have a hardware limitation on yourself.

No firmware can ever surpass what the hardware is capable of, in other words, if the port is not HDMI 2.1 and capable of the features, no firmware will make it so.

That is why they need to release new chipsets capable of said features on the hardware level.

HDMI 2.0 is only capable of VRR between 42Hz and 59Hz. HDMI 2.1 30Hz to 120Hz. If the hardware is not capable, no firmware can “enable” it.
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Just in case you still don’t get it, there is not a single firmware in the universe that can “enable” VRR with a 30 to 120 range in a HDMI 2.0 port.

I hope you can finally start to understand, realize that HDMI has been playing catch-up to DisplayPort for years and please, stop giving people the wrong information.

2019 LG OLEDS have FULL BANDWITH HARDWARE LEVEL HDMI 2.1 ports. PERIOD.

If they didn’t, VRR would not work at that range (DisplayPort had to be updated to be able to support this kind of range especially at higher resolutions).
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post #165 of 184 Old 10-30-2019, 02:01 PM
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Seems that you have a hardware limitation on yourself.

No firmware can ever surpass what the hardware is capable of, in other words, if the port is not HDMI 2.1 and capable of the features, no firmware will make it so.

That is why they need to release new chipsets capable of said features on the hardware level.

HDMI 2.0 is only capable of VRR between 42Hz and 59Hz. HDMI 2.1 30Hz to 120Hz. If the hardware is not capable, no firmware can “enable” it.
Please keep it civil. There is no reason or purpose in being rude.

Yes, the hardware needs to be designed and capable of utilizing the protocols as specified in HDMI 2.1. There is, or was, a very good discussion on the LG Forums about what their "HDMI 2.1 chipsets" actually did or were capable of. The discussion centered around proprietary HDMI 2.1 chipsets which was interesting to say the least.

HDMI 2.1 is supposed to support VESA 1.2a compression which is fine, but only up to about 17.82Gbps. However, uncompressed video will not be a problem with hybrid fiber cables due to the physical design, and supporting chipsets in the cables.
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post #166 of 184 Old 10-30-2019, 02:28 PM
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Seems that you have a hardware limitation on yourself.

No firmware can ever surpass what the hardware is capable of, in other words, if the port is not HDMI 2.1 and capable of the features, no firmware will make it so.

That is why they need to release new chipsets capable of said features on the hardware level.

HDMI 2.0 is only capable of VRR between 42Hz and 59Hz. HDMI 2.1 30Hz to 120Hz. If the hardware is not capable, no firmware can “enable” it.
Please keep it civil. There is no reason or purpose in being rude.

Yes, the hardware needs to be designed and capable of utilizing the protocols as specified in HDMI 2.1. There is, or was, a very good discussion on the LG Forums about what their "HDMI 2.1 chipsets" actually did or were capable of. The discussion centered around proprietary HDMI 2.1 chipsets which was interesting to say the least.

HDMI 2.1 is supposed to support VESA 1.2a compression which is fine, but only up to about 17.82Gbps. However, uncompressed video will not be a problem with hybrid fiber cables due to the physical design, and supporting chipsets in the cables.
With all due respect, I’ve been on topic and out of the three people that posted on this thread since the recommendation was requested, the only one to do remotely so.

Not only there has not been any good cable recommendations that work with products out TODAY, not a single cable has been tested for at least bandwidth and eARC, which is the main moving parts of a cable to be considered to function properly and an amazing starting place.

This is the very purpose of this thread. Not theorize about future possibilities of the HDMI standard or bash the only available products for sale today with actual HDMI 2.1 ports while telling others how much more you guys know than them.

Stay on topic, post useful information and you shouldn’t have an issue as long as there are no members like you two in that very same thread.
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post #167 of 184 Old 10-30-2019, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by lcrava View Post
With all due respect, I’ve been on topic and out of the three people that posted on this thread since the recommendation was requested, the only one to do remotely so.

Not only there has not been any good cable recommendations that work with products out TODAY, not a single cable has been tested for at least bandwidth and eARC, which is the main moving parts of a cable to be considered to function properly and an amazing starting place.

This is the very purpose of this thread. Not theorize about future possibilities of the HDMI standard or bash the only available products for sale today with actual HDMI 2.1 ports while telling others how much more you guys know than them.

Stay on topic, post useful information and you shouldn’t have an issue as long as there are no members like you two in that very same thread.
The Ruipro4k cables have been tested for ARC/eARC and work well up to about 15m. Longer than that eARC will probably have issues, as will most any current cables. There are quite a few cables on the market now that are successfully being used in consumer setups for eARC. Cables are currently being tested for reliable 48Gbps bandwidth, if that's the bandwidth you are referring to, but again it gets back to source/devices.

If you want recommendations for cables that are compatible with HDMI 2.1, Belkin advertised one and of course Monster has one (probably AudioQuest as well). The question is how were those claims validated.

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post #168 of 184 Old 10-30-2019, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcrava View Post
With all due respect, I’️ve been on topic and out of the three people that posted on this thread since the recommendation was requested, the only one to do remotely so.

Not only there has not been any good cable recommendations that work with products out TODAY, not a single cable has been tested for at least bandwidth and eARC, which is the main moving parts of a cable to be considered to function properly and an amazing starting place.

This is the very purpose of this thread. Not theorize about future possibilities of the HDMI standard or bash the only available products for sale today with actual HDMI 2.1 ports while telling others how much more you guys know than them.

Stay on topic, post useful information and you shouldn’️t have an issue as long as there are no members like you two in that very same thread.
The Ruipro4k cables have been tested for ARC/eARC and work well up to about 15m. Longer than that eARC will probably have issues, as will most any current cables. Cables are currently being tested for reliable 48Gbps bandwidth, if that's the bandwidth you are referring to, but again it gets back to source/devices.

If you want recommendations for cables that are compatible with HDMI 2.1, Belkin advertised one and of course Monster has one (probably AudioQuest as well). The question is how were those claims validated.
Ruipro is not for sale. Monster’s fiber cable does not do eARC (most is 7.2 audio), Belkin is a complete crapshoot on wether or not you’ll get a working cable and Audioquest is pure overpriced garbage.

You can either buy suspicious chinese crap on Ali, eBay or Amazon or buy a quality cable from Monoprice at the moment.

I know because I went looking for options after reading this entire thread this morning and getting absolutely zero help from it.

Now thanks to you and this other Trendsetter dude I even regret having helped the person that asked for the recommendation.
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post #169 of 184 Old 10-30-2019, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by lcrava View Post
Ruipro is not for sale. Monster’s fiber cable does not do eARC (most is 7.2 audio), Belkin is a complete crapshoot on wether or not you’ll get a working cable and Audioquest is pure overpriced garbage.

You can either buy suspicious chinese crap on Ali, eBay or Amazon or buy a quality cable from Monoprice at the moment.

I know because I went looking for options after reading this entire thread this morning and getting absolutely zero help from it.

Now thanks to you and this other Trendsetter dude I even regret having helped the person that asked for the recommendation.
The Ruipro4k cable is indeed on sale. If you are referring to their upcoming 8k cable, it is not, at least domestically. They were being offered on a limited basis in Europe but I don't know if that is still viable or not.

Cable mfrs are clever in their marketing, especially when it comes to fiber optic cables. It can be difficult to determine if their fiber cables are fiber only or hybrid fiber. Hybrid fiber cables can indeed to ARC, and eARC on some systems, because the glass fiber cores are surrounded by solid copper wiring, hence the term hybrid.

Please be civil.
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post #170 of 184 Old 11-01-2019, 12:44 PM
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HDMI.org has not released compliance test specifications (CTS) for 2.1 so manufacturers are reluctant to release cables that are untested to meet DPL’s rigorous testing requirements. Nor does HDMI.org have certification facilities ready.

Do we know when to expect the CTS to be released and certification facilities to be updated for 2.1 testing/certification? As soon as this occurs the floodgates should open re the availability of 2.1 cables.

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Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post
HDMI.org has not released compliance test specifications (CTS) for 2.1 so manufacturers are reluctant to release cables that are untested to meet DPL’s rigorous testing requirements. Nor does HDMI.org have certification facilities ready.

Do we know when to expect the CTS to be released and certification facilities to be updated for 2.1 testing/certification? As soon as this occurs the floodgates should open re the availability of 2.1 cables.
HDMI.org released CTS for cat 3 connectors in Nov. 2018. In Aug. 2018 they released CTS for repeaters, sources, and sinks which also include eARC as defined in HDMI 2.1.

There are ATC's who are currently testing for HDMI 2.1 with the latest protocols and recommended equipment. However, HDMI.org is silent on whether they will allow certification (with some sort of QR label like Premium) for active cables. And, as has been stated before, the lack of consumer devices with the latest HDMI 2.1 chipsets in them makes it difficult to validate compatibility. This whole process has not gone as smoothly as anticipated, which is not unusual for HDMI, because cable mfrs are already "validating" either in-house (with standardized protocols and methods is unknown) or very basic validation (if my cable can pass 48Gbps then it must be capable of passing the features that require 48Gbps without errors) and are already marketing and selling them. It's a mess!

I really dislike HDMI but it's what we are stuck with

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Some of the well known manufacturers are are in a holding pattern for long run active hdmi 2.1 hdmi cables (be it chip amplified or hybrid fiber optical). They will not release until CTS data is released. This is frustrating. I need to update as my WW cable is capped at 10.2 gbps, but will not until it’s 2.1 for future proof sake, even though I have conduit access.

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post #173 of 184 Old 11-01-2019, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post
Some of the well known manufacturers are are in a holding pattern for long run active hdmi 2.1 hdmi cables (be it chip amplified or hybrid fiber optical). They will not release until CTS data is released. This is frustrating. I need to update as my WW cable is capped at 10.2 gbps, but will not until it’s 2.1 for future proof sake, even though I have conduit access.
I feel your frustration but there is just too much uncertainty and misleading (imo) product descriptions in the marketplace right now. I'm not sure what a WW cable is but a cable certified for HDMI 2.0 (18Gbps) should work for now for 4k HDR. I don't remember how long your run is (or if you even mentioned it) but there are some good cables now for HDMI 2.0 that are longer than 25'. Otherwise, you may have to wait a long time until there are proven cables that can adequately handle HDMI 2.1 (full feature set). My feeling is that a hybrid fiber solution is what is going to work best for HDMI 2.1 but those cables will be active, and unless HDMI.org allows for certification by an ATC for active cables, it may be a long wait until consumers start posting their results with "non-ATC certified" cables that are working with HDMI 2.1 devices. At least you have a conduit which is some consolation I think the fog will clear somewhat once HDMI 2.1 certified chip sets are in consumer devices.

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post #174 of 184 Old 11-27-2019, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by lcrava View Post
there are those of us who have equipment with HDMI 2.1 features today in need of a cable to connect it (LG C9>Ambeo Soundbar (eARC), PC w/ 2080Ti (w/ g-Sync enabled)

...

The Monoprice cable works flawlessly with the C9, correctly doing VRR and eARC. I can’t do other tests since I do not have the necessary equipment.
I am in a similar situation. Getting a C9 tomorrow, will sooner or later upgrade my graphics card (currently GTX 980 Ti), and I want to game at 4K 120Hz with VRR (and HDR, if that matters).

In the interest of furthering the actual topic of this thread (and to help me), I would be immensely grateful if you would be able to confirm whether the monoprice cable works reliably at [email protected], with VRR (and HDR if it matters and you're able to test it).

(Regarding eARC, I don't think I need that - I will be connecting my PC to my TV with this cable, and have a shorter HDMI cable between my TV and receiver).

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post #175 of 184 Old 11-28-2019, 11:52 AM
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eARC - will be relevant if the TV and AVR are both eARC enabled and you wish to send HD/Immersive audio from your Source device to the AVR via the TV.

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PS Otto - WW - lets guess WireWorld.

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post #176 of 184 Old 11-28-2019, 12:56 PM
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+1. Ah yes, WireWorld would be a good guess.

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post #177 of 184 Old 12-02-2019, 04:53 PM
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FWIW, after upgrading my PJ and receiver, I was having issues with getting a 4k signal. It's a 27' long run from AVR to PJ. I initially bought a 30' long premium certified cable from monoprice. That worked as long as the cable was outside the wall, as soon as I put it in the smurf tube, it stopped working. (See picture). After trying a few different hdmi boosters, I bought this fiber optic hdmi cable and it's working great so far. Never heard of this manufacturer but cable does what it supposed to.

I also got rid of the wall plate connectors.

8K Fiber HDMI Cable 33ft, BIFALE HDMI 2.1 Fiber Optic cable https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZKC5Q92..._A-z5DbCVEVZ5R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragged View Post
FWIW, after upgrading my PJ and receiver, I was having issues with getting a 4k signal. It's a 27' long run from AVR to PJ. I initially bought a 30' long premium certified cable from monoprice. That worked as long as the cable was outside the wall, as soon as I put it in the smurf tube, it stopped working. (See picture). After trying a few different hdmi boosters, I bought this fiber optic hdmi cable and it's working great so far. Never heard of this manufacturer but cable does what it supposed to.

I also got rid of the wall plate connectors.

8K Fiber HDMI Cable 33ft, BIFALE HDMI 2.1 Fiber Optic cable https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZKC5Q92..._A-z5DbCVEVZ5R
You got lucky. The cable is marketed as an "HDMI 2.1 cable" which is pushing the HDMI.org marketing and product description guidelines, but they do mention the HDMI 2.1 options sets that the cable has been tested for, which is required. However, there are no consumer devices that can utilize the option sets that require the 48Gbps so how well the cable will perform with those feature sets has yet to be proven. Testing in a lab is quite different than actual consumer use in home.

Sounds like the copper-only cable got bent or kinked once you installed it inside of the conduit. The nice thing about hybrid fiber cables is that they are thin due to the active nature of the cable so bend radius is a bit more generous. If you used the wall plate that could also have been a source of issues.

Wall plates, adapters, and extenders can cause issues with 4k HDR and long runs. 4k HDR can be finicky with its connection so ideally you want a single cable run from source to sink with nothing in-between. This is especially true with active cables.

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post #179 of 184 Old 12-04-2019, 06:47 PM
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...the nice thing about hybrid fiber cables is that they are thin due to the active nature of the cable...
No, they’re thin because glass is thin, there’s only one glass channel, and there is only a single copper conductor (in the case of a hybrid setup) so little to no shielding and insulation is needed.
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
...the nice thing about hybrid fiber cables is that they are thin due to the active nature of the cable...
No, they’️re thin because glass is thin, there’️s only one glass channel, and there is only a single copper conductor (in the case of a hybrid setup) so little to no shielding and insulation is needed.
In a typical hybrid fiber cable there are actually four fiber/glass channels. Three running 6gbps for a combined bandwidth of 18.2gbps, and the fourth channel used for timing/clock. And in a hybrid cable the fiber is one-way (source to sink) so there are typically seven copper wires/channels for the return path, as that is what is needed for EDID, CEC, ARC, and +5v power and ground which power the chips in each end. Nonetheless, the seven copper lines can be much thinner than the typical 23.5/24awg used in long copper HDMI cables because those 7 aren't being used for high bandwidth data. So that's a total of 11 fiber/copper channels running through a hybrid fiber cable, vs 19 copper wires in non-fiber cable.

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