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post #1 of 14 Old 07-17-2019, 10:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Upgrading Displays to 4K - will the current cables work

Good *high speed cables* is good high speed cables, unless I am amiss on the requirements for 4K/HDR displays ?


All of the displays in the household are plasma with the sole exception of the one by the kitchen , which is LCD. Planning on replacing two of them to 4K OLEDS, just to see what the ~fuzz~ is all about with HDR 4K content.

The interconnects in the wall between *plates* are probably all BJC ? A wild guess on the HDMI cables from wallplate to receiver, equipment is proabably a mix of BJC and Amazon "high speed" cables and maybe a couple of Canare hdmi cables I used as jumpers, that I picked up on a whim while picking up supplies.

So, with the upgrade of the 4K displays, how picky is ~older vs newer cables~ going to be. In my readings of review online, seems like such a crapshoot between all brands X brand cables did not work with our ATV4K, but X brand did. Same verbose comments with Xbox, etc. Those reviews were on certified HDMI cables .

If the current cables display video, and video does not jitter, should I presume I am good to go ?

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post #2 of 14 Old 07-17-2019, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by chefwong View Post
Good *high speed cables* is good high speed cables, unless I am amiss on the requirements for 4K/HDR displays ?


All of the displays in the household are plasma with the sole exception of the one by the kitchen , which is LCD. Planning on replacing two of them to 4K OLEDS, just to see what the ~fuzz~ is all about with HDR 4K content.

The interconnects in the wall between *plates* are probably all BJC ? A wild guess on the HDMI cables from wallplate to receiver, equipment is proabably a mix of BJC and Amazon "high speed" cables and maybe a couple of Canare hdmi cables I used as jumpers, that I picked up on a whim while picking up supplies.

So, with the upgrade of the 4K displays, how picky is ~older vs newer cables~ going to be. In my readings of review online, seems like such a crapshoot between all brands X brand cables did not work with our ATV4K, but X brand did. Same verbose comments with Xbox, etc.

If the current cables display video, and video does not jitter, should I presume I am good to go ?
Rule of thumb for 4k HDR (Dobly Vision, HDR10, HLG) is this:

For runs up to about 20', Premium High Speed HDMI cables (QR label) will work just fine. The Premium label means that they were tested and certified by an ATC, which is a testing program designed and implemented by HDMI.org using standardized testing procedures. The QR label ensures authenticity. That is not a 100% guarantee that the cable will work for all setups but at least the consumer knows that the cable met ALL of the HDMI 2.0 hardware requirements as set forth by HDMI.org. Any cable mfr can submit their cables to an ATC for certification so you are not dependent on one or two cable mfrs. Just look for the name Premium High Speed HDMI cable and make sure it comes with the QR label for authenticity.

For runs over 20' a hybrid fiber cable from someone like Ruipro seems to be the most reliable. They are active cables so they can not be certified by HDMI.org as HDMI.org does not allow for active cables to be certified (QR label) by an ATC, at least not yet. They are expensive but work extremely well for those long runs.

4k HDR is very picky about its connections. The best and most reliable connection is a single cable, source to sink, with no switches, wall plates, extenders, etc in-between. They can work but they can also introduce issues due to the nature of 4k HDR and its demands. If your cable run is in-wall the the use of a 1.5" - 2.0" conduit is highly recommended and is truly the ONLY way to future proof your cabling as it is very likely that you will be needing to upgrade your cabling as the video standards become more demanding (fully compliant HDMI 2.1 for example). The use of a conduit makes upgrading your cable so much easier and safer, especially if you have also installed a pull string. Bend radius can adversely affect the signal so with the use of a conduit it is much easier to control that. If your cabling is easily accessible, then using a conduit may not be necessary.

I have two HTS's. An older LCD-based system and a new OLED-based system. Both with a 5.1 audio system. I've used BJC Premium High Speed HDMI cables with both and have had zero issues. One system (LCD) has an ATV4 and a blu-ray player as my external devices and the other system (OLED) has an ATV4k and a UHD-BD player as external devices. I've had zero issues with either one using the BJC cables and have been currently testing the Ruipro4k hybrid fiber cables on the OLED system. The performance for both cable types has been the same.

There are other factors involved in a successful connection other than the data path (cable). Cable length, bend radius, devices with the same HDMI hardware versions, etc. The cable just connects the devices, it can not improve pq. You either get the signal with no sparkles, dropouts, etc or you don't. Cable mfrs, imo, border on providing misleading information with their specifications and product descriptions. They all say their cables are the best based on this and that. Marketing b.s. with lots of smoke and mirrors.

The bottom line is that no one can give you an absolute guarantee that their cables with gold connectors, oxygen-free copper, etc. will give you superior pq and will always work. You can't make reds any redder or greens any greener. It's still going to be trial and error. Cable technology will always lag behind video technology. It's getting better but it's still not there yet. If you already have cables installed in-wall they are probably fine for 1080p but you may have issues with 4k HDR and beyond due to cable type, length, etc. "Good" HDMI cables is a relative term because there are lots of counterfeit and cheap cables out there with great sounding product descriptions.

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post #3 of 14 Old 07-17-2019, 11:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Otto -

Thanks for the reply. I just realized the middle man might be also the crux in the mix. If memory recalls, the quickport HDMI's females I used on the wallplates were some brand *cannot remember* that was a hdmi female quickport with a short cable and connector on the ~inside flex end~
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post #4 of 14 Old 07-17-2019, 12:48 PM
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Otto -

Thanks for the reply. I just realized the middle man might be also the crux in the mix. If memory recalls, the quickport HDMI's females I used on the wallplates were some brand *cannot remember* that was a hdmi female quickport with a short cable and connector on the ~inside flex end~
In theory, any High Speed HDMI cable under 20' should be able to handle 4k HDR. But once you place an "interruption" in the cable path, especially something passive like a wall plate, all bets are off. If your HDMI cables were installed a few years ago, they may not have even been tested, let alone certified, for the hardware demands of HDMI 2.0 and 4k HDR. All you can do is try. The cables are more than likely passive so you may be able to get away with a powered extender but even that may be dicey because you don't know how the cable was installed in-wall (bend radius, etc).

Replacing in-wall cabling correctly is a pain in the @ss, not to mention a major expense and hassle but you may not have a choice if you want to push 4k HDR and beyond reliably at distances longer than 20' - 25'. 25', btw, is the current maximum length for certifying passive, copper-based cables.

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post #5 of 14 Old 07-17-2019, 01:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Long sweeping bends, etc ;-) I know the runs. All passive, except for two extended runs ---but I did see the newer optical based HDMI's that are out now.

I guess it will just be a matter of just connecting and see what works and what doesn't work and proceed from there.

I don't really read much into certification (to some degree). Gosh, just even taking a look on 'zon. Alot of brands seem to be oem' from the same china factories, with a different name, different type of sheating and cable connectors. Some like MediaBridge which seems to have been around like forever. Then there is fosom, etc, etc...
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post #6 of 14 Old 07-17-2019, 02:51 PM
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Long sweeping bends, etc ;-) I know the runs. All passive, except for two extended runs ---but I did see the newer optical based HDMI's that are out now.

I guess it will just be a matter of just connecting and see what works and what doesn't work and proceed from there.

I don't really read much into certification (to some degree). Gosh, just even taking a look on 'zon. Alot of brands seem to be oem' from the same china factories, with a different name, different type of sheating and cable connectors. Some like MediaBridge which seems to have been around like forever. Then there is fosom, etc, etc...
Yeah, like I said, certification is not a guarantee but at least you know that the cable was tested by standardized procedures for HDMI 2.0 hardware so no matter who the cable mfr is, the testing is all the same, on the same type of current testing equipment, so at least the consumer knows what they are getting with the cable. I've used MediaBridge as well as BJC in the past and those cables were fine. However, distance is the achilles heel of 4k HDR, and that's where it gets difficult.

Ruipro4k hybrid fiber cables are tested by Simplay Labs, which is a very reputable ATC (Authorized Testing Center) using the latest HDMI.org approved equipment and protocols. However, the hybrid fiber cables are active so they can not receive the certification designation or the QR label. That being said, the cables are very well made, have an excellent bend radius, and slim connector ends which fit very snugly into the HDMI input either horizontally or vertically. If you are concerned about the cables drawing power from the HDMI input you could probably use a voltage inserter for external power.

Hybrid fiber cables are going to be the way to go for 4k HDR and beyond because of their design. There are any number of hybrid fiber cable mfrs I just happen to have experience with Ruipro (and have done some testing for them on a consumer level). There are quite a few AVS members who have had excellent results using the Ruipro4k cables.

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post #7 of 14 Old 07-18-2019, 11:48 AM
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The TV as a Source may also be a consideration with any New 4K UHD you install - if you intend to use the TV Apps, Tuner etc you may have to consider ARC, eARC or Optical to get TV audio back to a centralised audio distribution system.

The format of the Source signal, the total length of the cable run and the number of 'breaks' in the cable run will all have an impact on the installed cables working or not with 4K UHD source devices.

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post #8 of 14 Old 07-23-2019, 07:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Thx all for the feedback. All pre-existing cabling worked with the C9 I fired up yesterday. Maybe my eyes need more settling in, but after tuning the PQ, it still kinda feels like I'm in torch mode with the brightness, the color, the sharpness - ahem, maybe it's too sharp.

Heh, maybe these old eyes of mine are just used to the ~plasma look~.
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post #10 of 14 Old 07-23-2019, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by chefwong View Post
Thx all for the feedback. All pre-existing cabling worked with the C9 I fired up yesterday. Maybe my eyes need more settling in, but after tuning the PQ, it still kinda feels like I'm in torch mode with the brightness, the color, the sharpness - ahem, maybe it's too sharp.

Heh, maybe these old eyes of mine are just used to the ~plasma look~.
That was my first impression going from my Panasonic plasma to LCD/LED sets. You may have to spend some time calibrating to get it to where you're happy with the picture.

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That was my first impression going from my Panasonic plasma to LCD/LED sets. You may have to spend some time calibrating to get it to where you're happy with the picture.

Indeed. All the displays in the store are in torch mode and I figuered [email protected], it would not be in torch mode so I would be able to dial it in easily....

Fired up 2 4K UHD discs. It was quite a reveal on color and clarity.
I dunno if the C9 is a keeper. Going to need some seat time. It's interesting, but just short of the setup time and setup/demo time I spent on it yesterday, it's still feeling too CGI'ish..
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post #12 of 14 Old 07-23-2019, 09:25 AM
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Indeed. All the displays in the store are in torch mode and I figuered [email protected], it would not be in torch mode so I would be able to dial it in easily....

Fired up 2 4K UHD discs. It was quite a reveal on color and clarity.
I dunno if the C9 is a keeper. Going to need some seat time. It's interesting, but just short of the setup time and setup/demo time I spent on it yesterday, it's still feeling too CGI'ish..
You may want to try settings from the internet for the LG C9.

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/focus.p...&id=1439471411

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post #13 of 14 Old 07-23-2019, 09:29 AM
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You should be aware that SOME of the new high-end TV's use the new HDMI 2.1 implementation, which requires a specially qualified HDMI Cable to support the MUCH higher data rates needed to support [email protected] (HDMI 2.0 max is [email protected]) and 8K/10K (yes, 8K sets are also available....and more 8K sources are "expected soonish"), VARIABLE Frame Rate HDR, Enhanced Audio Return Channel (eARC) and some Game Display enhancements. This will ensure that you are ready when you decide to also upgrade to an Ultra Disc Player with HDMI 2.1 upgrade:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_2.0

PS: Good luck figuring out whether....or NOT....a particular 4K (or even 8K) TV implemented Chroma"subsample" (i.e. 4.2.2, 4.2.0) modes shown in the comparison tables, which supports that particular Rez/Refresh setting, but with reduced resolution. Maybe it's in the User Manual....and maybe NOT:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling

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post #14 of 14 Old 07-23-2019, 10:54 AM
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You should be aware that SOME of the new high-end TV's use the new HDMI 2.1 implementation, which requires a specially qualified HDMI Cable to support the MUCH higher data rates needed to support [email protected] (HDMI 2.0 max is [email protected]) and 8K/10K (yes, 8K sets are also available....and more 8K sources are "expected soonish"), VARIABLE Frame Rate HDR, Enhanced Audio Return Channel (eARC) and some Game Display enhancements. This will ensure that you are ready when you decide to also upgrade to an Ultra Disc Player with HDMI 2.1 upgrade:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_2.0
Fully compliant HDMI 2.1 will require a "special 48Gbps HDMI cable", with a maximum length of 1m to 3m (3' to 9') for a passive cable. Once cables and connectors pass compliance testing they will receive the "Ultra" designation to distinguish them from "Premium" (18Gbps) cables. Unfortunately the term "Ultra" is already being used by some cable mfrs to garner sales and is causing some confusion to consumers. For longer runs my feeling is that a hybrid fiber cable will be the most reliable and robust cable connection going forward.

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