Monster 8K HDMI cables? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 1Likes
  • 1 Post By Otto Pylot
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 16 Old 09-15-2019, 05:23 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 485
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 293 Post(s)
Liked: 68
Monster 8K HDMI cables?

Leave it to Monster. They already have 8K "certified" HDMI cables on the shelves. AFAIK the standard has not yet been finalized? Would you say it is safe to get these now expecting 8K, regardless of what you think of Monster? Or would you wait? Since Monster seems as usual to have beat everyone to the punch. I would hate to spend $$$ on these and have them ultimately fail to supply 8K. I can test it right now with YouTube in fact. Your opinions please. Thank you
TriTon464 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 16 Old 09-15-2019, 08:10 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,596
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1723 Post(s)
Liked: 1013
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriTon464 View Post
Leave it to Monster. They already have 8K "certified" HDMI cables on the shelves. AFAIK the standard has not yet been finalized? Would you say it is safe to get these now expecting 8K, regardless of what you think of Monster? Or would you wait? Since Monster seems as usual to have beat everyone to the punch. I would hate to spend $$$ on these and have them ultimately fail to supply 8K. I can test it right now with YouTube in fact. Your opinions please. Thank you


I would definitely wait until there is an hdmi.org 8k certified cable. I see Monoprice has 8k cables but they don’t have the hologram and don’t say premium “certified”.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Mike
Sony XBR-65X930E | ATV4K-64GB & 32GB 5th Gen | Nvidia Shield TV Pro 2017 | Logitech Harmony Elite
m_snow is online now  
post #3 of 16 Old 09-15-2019, 08:40 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Otto Pylot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bull Mountain, OR
Posts: 15,083
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3455 Post(s)
Liked: 2508
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriTon464 View Post
Leave it to Monster. They already have 8K "certified" HDMI cables on the shelves. AFAIK the standard has not yet been finalized? Would you say it is safe to get these now expecting 8K, regardless of what you think of Monster? Or would you wait? Since Monster seems as usual to have beat everyone to the punch. I would hate to spend $$$ on these and have them ultimately fail to supply 8K. I can test it right now with YouTube in fact. Your opinions please. Thank you
Marketing b.s. Plain and simple. I responded to your other thread. You'd be much better off purchasing a hybrid fiber cable from Ruipro than the Monster krap. Nobody, regardless of their marketing, can guarantee an "8k" cable because there aren't any consumer devices to test them on. At your 6' length, which you mention in your other post, just get a Premium High Speed HDMI cable (QR label) for now and install it in a conduit with plenty of space and a pull string for future cable pulls

I never trust an atom, they make up everything.
Otto Pylot is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 16 Old 09-15-2019, 08:51 AM
Advanced Member
 
bryantc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Chicago
Posts: 569
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 375 Post(s)
Liked: 321
This would just be a 48Gpbs or HDMI 2.1 cable. A lot of manufacturers are actually selling these now including Monoprice and Belkin.


Official certification has not begun and when it does these will be known as "Ultra High Speed" HDMI.

Media: LG 88" OLED 8K Z9 / Denon AVR-X8500H 7.1.4 / Oppo UDP-203 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K / Sony 4K FMP-X10 / Gaming PC (Threadripper 1950X / 2x GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SLI) / PlayStation 4 Pro with PS VR / PlayStation (original)
Family: Sony 85" 4K XBR-85X900F / Denon AVR-X3400H 5.1 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K / C64 Mini - Game: LG 77" OLED 4K C8 / Denon AVR-X3400H 5.1 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K
bryantc is offline  
post #5 of 16 Old 09-15-2019, 08:52 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 485
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 293 Post(s)
Liked: 68
Thank you. good thing I did not waste money on these. I thought I knew better. I just saw it while shopping. I just got a regular high speed cable as you recommended. I imagine they will be replacing the conduit with UL rated stuff as well.
TriTon464 is offline  
post #6 of 16 Old 09-15-2019, 11:43 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Otto Pylot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bull Mountain, OR
Posts: 15,083
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3455 Post(s)
Liked: 2508
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryantc View Post
This would just be a 48Gpbs or HDMI 2.1 cable. A lot of manufacturers are actually selling these now including Monoprice and Belkin.


Official certification has not begun and when it does these will be known as "Ultra High Speed" HDMI.
Certifying passive cables for HDMI 2.1 and/or the 48Gbps bandwidth is still in progress, and that is only for the maximum 3m (9') length specified in the HDMI 2.1 hardware specifications for the passive cables. Certifying an active cable is still a work in progress. And there is only one hybrid fiber cable (active) mfr that I know of for sure (there are probably others) that is using an ATC to test and validate their cables for the HDMI 2.1 hardware specs. There is no way, in current consumer devices, to know for sure if 48Gbps is being achieved.

Ultra High Speed HDMI will in fact be the HDMI.org official designation, like Premium High Speed HDMI is now for the HDMI 2.0 hardware specifications. But until then, there are cable mfrs who are using that term loosely so caveat emptor. As far as Belkin's claim goes, I don't trust them being as they first started pushing their 48Gbps cable before the HDMI 2.1 specifications had even been ratified. I'm sure they have since amended that but it made we wonder how they got away with it. Most, if not all, cable descriptions and product claims are carefully written and/or approved by their respective legal departments. It still amazes me what they can get away with.

The biggest issue right now with certifying, or even properly evaluating a cable (and its connectors), is the lack of true HDMI 2.1 devices to test them against. It's one thing to test a cable under laboratory conditions and another thing entirely to test them in a consumer setting for partial or complete HDMI 2.1 options.

The best one can do right now is purchase a Premium High Speed HDMI cable if your run is under about 20' or to purchase a hybrid fiber cable (Ruipro4k) if your run is over about 20', and then wait and see what happens. This is why it is critical now if you have a long run to use conduit or have easy access to your cabling so you can swap them out once you need to do so. Conduit is still the ONLY way to future proof cabling for long runs.
TriTon464 likes this.

I never trust an atom, they make up everything.
Otto Pylot is offline  
post #7 of 16 Old 09-15-2019, 03:02 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 485
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 293 Post(s)
Liked: 68
Well, it is typical Monster is full of hot air and misrepresentation. It says exactly "48+ GBPS" right on the box. That one way or the other has to be an outright lie. I am not sure how that is legal. I do not buy Monster. Belkin is just usually junk and fails. Audioquest is full of misleading nonsense and grossly overpriced but at least all they state is "may exceed 18GBPS". That at least is honesty where it should be. I think as of now the best that can be considered is for a constant 20gbps or so as of the moment. You are correct, that is probably why they will tear out my snake and put conduit in. I thought tightly bundled was "tidy" but learned it makes for RF interference. Otto you seem to really know a lot about this stuff. Thank you
TriTon464 is offline  
post #8 of 16 Old 09-15-2019, 03:13 PM
Advanced Member
 
TrendSetterX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Posts: 732
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 417 Post(s)
Liked: 314
Monster 8K HDMI cables?

Well, technically they aren’t wrong as it’s pretty easy to support compressed 8k which requires considerably less than 48gbs. Remember, 2.1 encompasses compressed and uncompressed high bit-depth and/or high resolution. Due to the needs of supporting 8k, it’s doubtful we’ll see consumer devices that support 8k over hdmi without compression. As a result, it’s very likely that we’ll see 8k work just fine over today’s 2.0b “certified high speed” cables for runs that aren’t very long.

The issue won’t so much be the cabling as it will be making sure that the source, display, and any pass through devices (AVRs) support 2.1 compression (and we’re an easy year out from that)

Theater: Sony 75x940E | Yamaha 3060 | DirecTv HR54 | ATV4K | MP 4K HDBaseT Extender | SVS PC2000 sub | 5.1 surround
Networking: ASUS RT-AC68U (wireless disabled) | Ubiquiti AmpliFi HD Mesh Wireless with wired back-hauls
Automation & Lighting: Control4 & Lutron Homeworks Interactive

Last edited by TrendSetterX; 09-15-2019 at 03:21 PM.
TrendSetterX is offline  
post #9 of 16 Old 09-15-2019, 04:27 PM
Advanced Member
 
bryantc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Chicago
Posts: 569
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 375 Post(s)
Liked: 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriTon464 View Post
Well, it is typical Monster is full of hot air and misrepresentation. It says exactly "48+ GBPS" right on the box. That one way or the other has to be an outright lie. I am not sure how that is legal. I do not buy Monster. Belkin is just usually junk and fails. Audioquest is full of misleading nonsense and grossly overpriced but at least all they state is "may exceed 18GBPS". That at least is honesty where it should be. I think as of now the best that can be considered is for a constant 20gbps or so as of the moment. You are correct, that is probably why they will tear out my snake and put conduit in. I thought tightly bundled was "tidy" but learned it makes for RF interference. Otto you seem to really know a lot about this stuff. Thank you

I'm sure they tested it at 48Gbps before they put that on the box. There is nothing illegal about that either. You'll notice that they didn't say anything about HDMI certification.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TrendSetterX View Post
Well, technically they aren’t wrong as it’s pretty easy to support compressed 8k which requires considerably less than 48gbs. Remember, 2.1 encompasses compressed and uncompressed high bit-depth and/or high resolution. Due to the needs of supporting 8k, it’s doubtful we’ll see consumer devices that support 8k over hdmi without compression. As a result, it’s very likely that we’ll see 8k work just fine over today’s 2.0b “certified high speed” cables for runs that aren’t very long.

The issue won’t so much be the cabling as it will be making sure that the source, display, and any pass through devices (AVRs) support 2.1 compression (and we’re an easy year out from that)
8K requires minimum 32Gbps. Its unlikely, but not impossible, that Premium cables certified for 18Gbps would go that high.


Here's a handy chart showing the capabilities of HDMI 2.1. Note that compression only kicks in when the signal goes beyond 48Gbps.



Media: LG 88" OLED 8K Z9 / Denon AVR-X8500H 7.1.4 / Oppo UDP-203 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K / Sony 4K FMP-X10 / Gaming PC (Threadripper 1950X / 2x GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SLI) / PlayStation 4 Pro with PS VR / PlayStation (original)
Family: Sony 85" 4K XBR-85X900F / Denon AVR-X3400H 5.1 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K / C64 Mini - Game: LG 77" OLED 4K C8 / Denon AVR-X3400H 5.1 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K
bryantc is offline  
post #10 of 16 Old 09-15-2019, 05:47 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Otto Pylot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bull Mountain, OR
Posts: 15,083
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3455 Post(s)
Liked: 2508
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryantc View Post
I'm sure they tested it at 48Gbps before they put that on the box. There is nothing illegal about that either. You'll notice that they didn't say anything about HDMI certification.
There is no official certification program yet for 48Gbps. Installing a device at one end of a cable and having it register 48Gbps bandwidth does not mean that the cable will perform in a consumer device nor be able to support any or all of the HDMI 2.1 hardware option sets. So technically, it may be able to hit 48Gbps in a laboratory setting but that is far from a functional consumer setting. The mfrs are just trying to get these cables out before Black Friday (Week) to make sales on the un-informed public (non-AVS members ). You don't need 48Gbps for eARC, which is the only HDMI 2.1 option currently available on consumer devices and can work well on the HDMI 2.0 chipsets.

I never trust an atom, they make up everything.
Otto Pylot is offline  
post #11 of 16 Old 09-15-2019, 06:08 PM
Advanced Member
 
TrendSetterX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Posts: 732
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 417 Post(s)
Liked: 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
...for eARC, which is the only HDMI 2.1 option currently available on consumer devices and can work well on the HDMI 2.0 chipsets.
Incorrect. VRR is another 2.1 feature that is available with firmware currently (as far back as 2018) and not new hardware.

Theater: Sony 75x940E | Yamaha 3060 | DirecTv HR54 | ATV4K | MP 4K HDBaseT Extender | SVS PC2000 sub | 5.1 surround
Networking: ASUS RT-AC68U (wireless disabled) | Ubiquiti AmpliFi HD Mesh Wireless with wired back-hauls
Automation & Lighting: Control4 & Lutron Homeworks Interactive
TrendSetterX is offline  
post #12 of 16 Old 09-15-2019, 07:11 PM
Advanced Member
 
bryantc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Chicago
Posts: 569
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 375 Post(s)
Liked: 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
There is no official certification program yet for 48Gbps. Installing a device at one end of a cable and having it register 48Gbps bandwidth does not mean that the cable will perform in a consumer device nor be able to support any or all of the HDMI 2.1 hardware option sets. So technically, it may be able to hit 48Gbps in a laboratory setting but that is far from a functional consumer setting. The mfrs are just trying to get these cables out before Black Friday (Week) to make sales on the un-informed public (non-AVS members ). You don't need 48Gbps for eARC, which is the only HDMI 2.1 option currently available on consumer devices and can work well on the HDMI 2.0 chipsets.

Nowhere on the box does it say it is "certified" for anything. It just says 48Gbps and tested for 120fps. There is equipment that will test for that right now that you can even buy yourself.


Nothing illegal or even misleading. Just usual marketing.


Monster is supremely overpriced but they still make high quality products. I don't have any reason to doubt that this cable will handle the full HDMI 2.1 spec. Same goes for the other reputable companies selling these cables like Monoprice and Belkin.




Media: LG 88" OLED 8K Z9 / Denon AVR-X8500H 7.1.4 / Oppo UDP-203 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K / Sony 4K FMP-X10 / Gaming PC (Threadripper 1950X / 2x GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SLI) / PlayStation 4 Pro with PS VR / PlayStation (original)
Family: Sony 85" 4K XBR-85X900F / Denon AVR-X3400H 5.1 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K / C64 Mini - Game: LG 77" OLED 4K C8 / Denon AVR-X3400H 5.1 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K
bryantc is offline  
post #13 of 16 Old 09-15-2019, 07:12 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Otto Pylot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bull Mountain, OR
Posts: 15,083
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3455 Post(s)
Liked: 2508
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrendSetterX View Post
Incorrect. VRR is another 2.1 feature that is available with firmware currently (as far back as 2018) and not new hardware.
Yes, I know that . I didn't mention it because I don't know if VRR upgrades to HDMI 2.0 have been released yet, and most of the discussions have centered around eARC anyway.

I never trust an atom, they make up everything.
Otto Pylot is offline  
post #14 of 16 Old 09-15-2019, 07:18 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Otto Pylot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bull Mountain, OR
Posts: 15,083
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3455 Post(s)
Liked: 2508
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryantc View Post
Nowhere on the box does it say it is "certified" for anything. It just says 48Gbps and tested for 120fps. There is equipment that will test for that right now that you can even buy yourself.


Nothing illegal or even misleading. Just usual marketing.


Monster is supremely overpriced but they still make high quality products. I don't have any reason to doubt that this cable will handle the full HDMI 2.1 spec. Same goes for the other reputable companies selling these cables like Monoprice and Belkin.



That's a fiber cable, so yeah, it may in fact be able to reach up to 48Gbps but there's still no way to know how they determined that, if it can be sustained, and if it will work for all HDMI 2.1 options. If one is to purchase a fiber HDMI cable, a hybrid fiber cable would be the better way to go.

I never trust an atom, they make up everything.
Otto Pylot is offline  
post #15 of 16 Old 09-15-2019, 11:44 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 485
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 293 Post(s)
Liked: 68
I would rather wait until a "certified" one is out than waste my money on nonsense marketing ploys. First of all I am not sure the ports are 2.1 but what about o the Q900R? Anyways for 15FT. at Walmart I would not really call it "expensive". Aqdioquest Diamond at 18GBPPS, now that is expensive!
TriTon464 is offline  
post #16 of 16 Old 09-16-2019, 08:38 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Otto Pylot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bull Mountain, OR
Posts: 15,083
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3455 Post(s)
Liked: 2508
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriTon464 View Post
I would rather wait until a "certified" one is out than waste my money on nonsense marketing ploys. First of all I am not sure the ports are 2.1 but what about o the Q900R? Anyways for 15FT. at Walmart I would not really call it "expensive". Aqdioquest Diamond at 18GBPPS, now that is expensive!
Certification is still a ways off. At least certification by an ATC (Authorized Testing Center, which is HDMI.org approved). As previously mentioned, the HDMI 2.1 specification states 3m (9') as the maximum certification length for passive HDMI cables. Hopefully that will change but right now, it's in the specification. Hybrid fiber cables, which would probably be your best bet at this point in time, are active so they can't be certified by an ATC and receive the QR label for authenticity. In fact, no active cable at present can be certified by an ATC. I do know of one hybrid fiber cable mfr that does use an ATC for testing of their hybrid fiber cables. The testing does follow the HDMI.org protocols and instrumentation, it's just that they can't advertise that their cables are "certified". At 15', there are lots of Premium High Speed HDMI cables that you can purchase relatively cheap that you know have been tested and certified for the HDM 2.0 hardware specifications. Just look for the Premium name and the QR label. If your cable run has easy access, then you can upgrade your cabling later on as your needs change.

Just keep in mind that no cable mfr can give you a 100% guarantee that their cable is going to work with your setup. They probably will, but there's always that possibility because of other factors that come into play for a successful cable run. And, anyone can get a bad cable, even a certified one.

I never trust an atom, they make up everything.
Otto Pylot is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply HDMI Q&A - The One Connector World

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off