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-   -   Dealing with HDMI incompatibility issues (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-hdmi-q-one-connector-world/3097598-dealing-hdmi-incompatibility-issues.html)

paulsiu 10-21-2019 11:38 PM

Dealing with HDMI incompatibility issues
 
While most people on the forum are asking if their 4K UHD is being passed through on the HDMI cable, I feel like I have the reverse issue. I have a Sony BDP-S590 Blu-ray, and when I connected it to the TV's HDMI port, which has UHD, it does not play any audio. The reason it doesn't play any audio is because it can't seems to interface with the TV if I set the HDMI port to enable UHD. I don't know what the issue is. The most likely cause is that it can't handshake the audio part properly when UHD is enabled.


Is there a way to not let the Blu-ray think that UHD is turned off on the HDMI port? One suggestion would be to plug the Blu-ray to a different input on the TV, but unfortunately, I then lose the Atmos. What I want is being able to pass the atmos without hitting the UHD incompatibility issue.


Paul

Joe Fernand 10-22-2019 03:46 AM

Which TV do you have and have you confirmed the HDMI Input on the TV supports Immersive audio - many don't, even where the TV supports Immersive audio on its internal streaming Apps.

Try setting your BDP to 2.0 PCM - that will let you know if the TV is finding and decoding audio from your Source.

Joe

paulsiu 10-22-2019 05:56 AM

Thank you for taking the time to reply.


TV is Vizio D50-E1 UHD. What I have discovered so far is:
* TV does support Immersive on at least the Amazon Prime App. I suppose Netflix probably works, too, but I don't have the account to test it.
* TV does not pass Immersive Audio from HDMI input, so if I plug in Blu-ray to HDMI-2, the audio is passed through the ARC (HDMI-1), but not the Immersive audio.
* No matter which audio setting I use, there is no sound from the Blu-ray as long as UHD is enable on the HDMI port. There is no sound even for the blue-ray's internal app or the start up sound. No sound from DVD, etc. Until UHD is disable, you will not hear anything. Surprisingly the video works.


I don't suppose if there is a product that can act as a intermediary that will pass the Immersive audio to the HDMI port, but block the UHD.


Paul

Otto Pylot 10-22-2019 09:16 AM

To echo Joe, even if your tv is capable of immersive audio from the internal apps, quite often it can't pass that audio from an external source. In cases like that, ARC is no better than optical because it will be limited to 5.1, in not just 2.0.

Your best bet would be to not use your tv as the hub but to run all external sources thru an avr and just send the video to the tv. That way, your audio can be decoded properly. For the internal apps, you can try ARC to see if that will work but you won't be able to get HD Audio (DTS-MA, Dolby TrueHD, etc) and probably Atmos. Some tv's can pass lossy Atmos from the internal apps via ARC so all you can do is try. Optical from the tv will give you just 5.1, the same as ARC.

Joe Fernand 10-22-2019 11:24 AM

What are you connecting the ARC Out on the TV too?

Joe

paulsiu 10-22-2019 01:58 PM

Hi,


I feel I have not been able to make my points across. I know that atmos isn't going to go through ARC and so the setup as as followed:


Blu-Ray ---(hdmi-in)--> Soundbar ---(hdmi ARC) --> TV


So the soundbar is essentially the hub or the switch. Because the blue-ray isn't routed through the TV, we bypass the atmos not transmitting through ARC by sending the audio directly to the sourndbar.



The problem is that if I turn on UHD on the hdmi ARC, the Blu-ray audio will stop working. Suppose my soundbar has multiple HDMI input with some UHD sources, I would have to disable UHD when I switch to the blu-ray and switch on the UHD when I switch to the UHD source.


Can anyone think of a decent alternative?


Paul

Otto Pylot 10-22-2019 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulsiu (Post 58717854)
Hi,


I feel I have not been able to make my points across. I know that atmos isn't going to go through ARC and so the setup as as followed:


Blu-Ray ---(hdmi-in)--> Soundbar ---(hdmi ARC) --> TV


So the soundbar is essentially the hub or the switch. Because the blue-ray isn't routed through the TV, we bypass the atmos not transmitting through ARC by sending the audio directly to the sourndbar.



The problem is that if I turn on UHD on the hdmi ARC, the Blu-ray audio will stop working. Suppose my soundbar has multiple HDMI input with some UHD sources, I would have to disable UHD when I switch to the blu-ray and switch on the UHD when I switch to the UHD source.


Can anyone think of a decent alternative?


Paul

The Sony BDP-S590 is an older player with HDMI 1.4a. It should be able to handle ARC so the issue may be the Vizio in what it is doing when UHD or when you switch sources. When issue occur after source switching I always suspect CEC. A lot of systems require CEC to be enabled for ARC to work. CEC is not standardized in the sense that all device mfrs have to use the same option sets so incompatibilities are quite common. The issue could also be the soundbar. What's the model of the soundbar and what else do you have in your setup?

paulsiu 10-22-2019 05:24 PM

TV: Vizio D50-E1
Soundbar: SB36512-F6

DVD: BDP-S590


It is possible that it's a CEC issue. I can try to turn it off. I have try the input with the following with no issue:
* A Roku Streaming stick
* A PC with HDMI


In the case of the PC, I was able to output atmos without issue.

In the case of roku, I only got at best regular surround since it doesn't support atmos.
However, both device worked as expected.


Paul

Otto Pylot 10-22-2019 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulsiu (Post 58718782)
TV: Vizio D50-E1
Soundbar: SB36512-F6

DVD: BDP-S590


It is possible that it's a CEC issue. I can try to turn it off. I have try the input with the following with no issue:
* A Roku Streaming stick
* A PC with HDMI


In the case of the PC, I was able to output atmos without issue.

In the case of roku, I only got at best regular surround since it doesn't support atmos.
However, both device worked as expected.


Paul

Yep. Disable ARC/CEC on all of your HDMI connected devices as a test and just see if it all plays as expected. You'll have to use the individual remotes. If all works as you would expect then enable ARC/CEC and see if the issues come back. Of course you won't be able to use ARC unless your system allows separate control of ARC/CEC which is doubtful for the soundbar and possibly the BD player. There is a dongle device called the Lindy CECless adapter that blocks the CEC commands (or most of them) so that you can still use ARC. It's worth a try if CEC incompatibility is your problem.

paulsiu 10-23-2019 06:41 AM

I disabled CEC only to discover that it still did not resolve the issue. The Sony BDP-S590 blu-ray audio cuts out whenever the hdmi port is uhd enabled.



I notice we have hubs that do not pass 4K, so do you think if I put one between the blu-ray and the tv, the issue may go away or would we just get no video?



Thanks for your help and patience.


Paul

Otto Pylot 10-23-2019 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulsiu (Post 58720480)


I notice we have hubs that do not pass 4K, so do you think if I put one between the blu-ray and the tv, the issue may go away or would we just get no video?


Not sure what you mean. Sounds like you need to power off everything, disconnect all of your components, and then add them one by one, with the most simple connection possible to see if you can determine where and when the issue starts. It could also just be the Vizio (tv and soundbar) not playing well together. Just because they are from the same mfr doesn't mean that's a guarantee that they will work reliably together.

Do you have the ability to disable CEC separately from ARC on all of your HDMI connected devices?

paulsiu 10-23-2019 02:45 PM

Hi Otto Pylot


I thought of that already. I turned off everything and then power them off in sequence



TV
Soundbar

Blu-ray


I power on the Blu-ray last because I want to to have everything ready for the Blu-ray to read the HDMI when powering up. I also remove the quick power up on the Blu-ray that tries to have a faster startup by not powering down completely.



As for CEC, the CEC setting is available in the TV, but not in the soundbar and Blu-ray. I have tried different combo such as swapping the soundbar out and hooking the blu-ray directly to the TV. Basically, when UHD is on, no sound from the blu-ray, regardless of the CEC setting.



Paul

paulsiu 10-23-2019 02:48 PM

As for the hub, there were complains on some of the HDMI audio extractor that the device did not pass through the 4k, so when the device output 4K, it didn't pass through the pass through to the TV. I was thinking what if I had one of those pass thru, then may be the blu-ray won't see the UHD HDMI.


Paul

Ratman 10-24-2019 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulsiu (Post 58722776)
As for CEC, the CEC setting is available in the TV, but not in the soundbar and Blu-ray.


From the soundbar manual (pg.30):
4. From the SYSTEM menu, enable CEC and ARC (SAC) functions.
5. From the CEC menu, select Device Discovery to register the sound bar with the TV.


https://cdn.vizio.com/user-manual/PD...-F6_UM_ENG.pdf


From page 31 of the Bluray manual:
x[Control for HDMI]
[On]: The following BRAVIA Sync features are available:
– One-Touch Play
– System Power-Off
– Language Follow

[Off]: Turns off the function



https://docs.sony.com/release/bdps590_bx59.pdf


paulsiu 10-24-2019 07:55 AM

Thanks,


I decided to hook the Blu-ray to the TV directly to cut out the soundbar. I then turn off the CEC on the TVand enable UHC on the TV's HDMI port. No sound even after reboot. I plug the Blu-ray into different HDMI port (which does not have UHC) and the audio works fine. I plug the Blu-ray back into the UHC port and then disable UHC, and audio works fine. It appears not to be caused by the CEC after all.


Paul

Ratman 10-24-2019 08:10 AM

Why worry about UHD when using a Bluray player that doesn't support it?
Just plug it into where it works for now. ;)


Consider purchasing a UHD capable Bluray player, enable UHD and then the "problem" will probably be resolved. :)

Ratman 10-24-2019 09:41 AM

Unless I'm overlooking something, I apologize. But, here's my suggestion(s):


Connect the TV's ARC/HDMI to the soundbar's ARC/HDMI port. Enable UHD on the TV for ATMoS. That should support the ATMoS audio TV Apps.
Connect the Bluray player to a "non-UHD" input on the TV. That should pass/support DTS/DD5.1 (perhaps) over ARC.



Does that work?

liffie420 10-24-2019 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulsiu (Post 58717854)
Hi,


I feel I have not been able to make my points across. I know that atmos isn't going to go through ARC and so the setup as as followed:


Blu-Ray ---(hdmi-in)--> Soundbar ---(hdmi ARC) --> TV


So the soundbar is essentially the hub or the switch. Because the blue-ray isn't routed through the TV, we bypass the atmos not transmitting through ARC by sending the audio directly to the sourndbar.



The problem is that if I turn on UHD on the hdmi ARC, the Blu-ray audio will stop working. Suppose my soundbar has multiple HDMI input with some UHD sources, I would have to disable UHD when I switch to the blu-ray and switch on the UHD when I switch to the UHD source.


Can anyone think of a decent alternative?


Paul

To me it sounds like you are actually have an ARC issue, which is not uncommon. Have you tried plugging the Blu Ray player directly into the tv and bypassing the soundbar? That would be my first trouble shooting step. Second, if it is just a run of the mill soundbar, like a 3.1 or 5.1 bar, try using an optical cable from the tv to the soundbar. That is how I have mine set up, as I was aware of ARC issues that people have had. I go from my BLu Ray player, my PS4 and my Cable box all directly to the TV and then optical to my 5.1 sound bar.

Otto Pylot 10-24-2019 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by liffie420 (Post 58725880)
To me it sounds like you are actually have an ARC issue, which is not uncommon. Have you tried plugging the Blu Ray player directly into the tv and bypassing the soundbar? That would be my first trouble shooting step. Second, if it is just a run of the mill soundbar, like a 3.1 or 5.1 bar, try using an optical cable from the tv to the soundbar. That is how I have mine set up, as I was aware of ARC issues that people have had. I go from my BLu Ray player, my PS4 and my Cable box all directly to the TV and then optical to my 5.1 sound bar.

That sounds like a reasonable approach. I had suggested something similar early on in the thread but I don't know if the OP tried that or not. A repeat suggestion is a good idea. The other possibility is that this could be a Vizio problem (tv and soundbar) not playing nice together. Using components from the same mfr does not guarantee that they will play well together.

Ratman 10-24-2019 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otto Pylot (Post 58725946)
The other possibility is that this could be a Vizio problem (tv and soundbar) not playing nice together. Using components from the same mfr does not guarantee that they will play well together.

Perhaps contacting Vizio support may be helpful (if one is lucky :) )


https://support.vizio.com/s/contact-us?language=en_US

liffie420 10-24-2019 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otto Pylot (Post 58725946)
That sounds like a reasonable approach. I had suggested something similar early on in the thread but I don't know if the OP tried that or not. A repeat suggestion is a good idea. The other possibility is that this could be a Vizio problem (tv and soundbar) not playing nice together. Using components from the same mfr does not guarantee that they will play well together.

Well I scrolled up when he listed his soundbar model and he would lose out on Atmos support via optical. I only need 5.1 in my bedroom so it works fine for me. I actually use it in the living room as well, but again 5.1, although in there everything else runs through my AVR so I can still get Atmos if I wanted to. I just remember hearing all the stories about ARC being really sketchy so I just said screw it and bypassed it altogether lol.

Otto Pylot 10-24-2019 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by liffie420 (Post 58726442)
Well I scrolled up when he listed his soundbar model and he would lose out on Atmos support via optical. I only need 5.1 in my bedroom so it works fine for me. I actually use it in the living room as well, but again 5.1, although in there everything else runs through my AVR so I can still get Atmos if I wanted to. I just remember hearing all the stories about ARC being really sketchy so I just said screw it and bypassed it altogether lol.

Fortunately for me, I've never had a need for ARC (or CEC) for that matter so I've been audio and video trouble-free for years. I rarely use the on-board apps on my C8 and do the majority of streaming via the ATV4k. The few times I've uses the on-board apps, the discrete 5.1 audio has been fine. I haven't setup Atmos yet (if I ever do) and if I do, it won't be an issue.

ARC/CEC disabled on all HDMI connected devices. Optical from the tv to the avr for Comcast HDTV (local HD tv stations only, no streaming). All other devices go thru the avr and single remote control is achieved via Harmony remotes.

Ratman 10-24-2019 11:45 AM

Here's "MY" confusion...
Why does HDR video enabling stop/prevent audio?
If the non-HDR Bluray player is connected to the soundbar, it's non-ATMoS, should play PCM/DD and should just passthrough video. Regardless of video settings.

That has nothing to do with ARC.



Now...

With ARC, when connecting the non-HDR Bluray directly to the non-HDR HDMI input of the TV, audio should be passed-through/out the HDMI/ARC interface to the soundbar. Regardless of video settings.



What an I missing? :confused:

liffie420 10-24-2019 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratman (Post 58726590)
Here's "MY" confusion...
Why does HDR video enabling stop/prevent audio?
If the non-HDR Bluray player is connected to the soundbar, it's non-ATMoS, should play PCM/DD and should just passthrough video. Regardless of video settings.

That has nothing to do with ARC.



Now...

With ARC, when connecting the non-HDR Bluray directly to the non-HDR HDMI input of the TV, audio should be passed-through/out the HDMI/ARC interface to the soundbar. Regardless of video settings.



What an I missing? :confused:

I think that sound bar as Atmos though. At least when I looked it up, but I pretty much agree with you the whole situation is strange to be honest. It "almost" sound like the issue I had with my Sony UHD player, it has 2 HDMI outs, one for A/V and one for audio only. I initially was going to run the audio only HDMI to my soundbar, I had a 7.1 Nakamichi one at the time, instead of using the HDMI passthrough to my tv, for some reason the audio only HDMI port would work exactly 1 time for about 30 mins then crap out. Returned the player for the same model 2 times, SAME issue so I gave up and went back to the optical connection and those are almost bullet proof lol.

liffie420 10-24-2019 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otto Pylot (Post 58726528)
Fortunately for me, I've never had a need for ARC (or CEC) for that matter so I've been audio and video trouble-free for years. I rarely use the on-board apps on my C8 and do the majority of streaming via the ATV4k. The few times I've uses the on-board apps, the discrete 5.1 audio has been fine. I haven't setup Atmos yet (if I ever do) and if I do, it won't be an issue.

ARC/CEC disabled on all HDMI connected devices. Optical from the tv to the avr for Comcast HDTV (local HD tv stations only, no streaming). All other devices go thru the avr and single remote control is achieved via Harmony remotes.

That is pretty much the EXACT setup I have in the living room lol. UHD, PS4, Switch, cable box, Retropi all into the AVR then one HDMI to the TV, and optical from the TV to the AVR for audio for my smart tv apps, all controlled with a Harmony remote. Those things are like MAGIC for those of use who grew up using the old 3 in 1 or 4 in 1 universal remotes that only ended up controlling about half of the tv functions. Menu or other functions like that almost NEVER worked lol.

paulsiu 10-24-2019 01:15 PM

Thanks everyone for their response.



* If you examined my responses, you will notice that I have bypass the soundbar and connected the blue-ray to the TV directly as a diagnostic step.
* I thought when I disable CEC in the TV, the ARC would also be disabled. The setting for CEC is disable, ARC only, and enabled. If I disable CEC and the audio is still out, it's not ARC right?

* I have no idea why UHD setting would affect audio. My thought is that turning on UHD probably messed up the HDMI handshaking, but I thought that would mess up the picture and not the audio. I am pretty sure optical out would work because it doesn't travel through HDMI.

* I have contacted Vizio, who is stump on the issue and said they will get back to me, which they haven't actually done.

* The reason why I want UHD on for a blu-ray that doesn't support UHD is because I want to hook the blu-ray to the "hub" where I can switch between the blu-ray and the different sources. Some of the sources may support 4k HDR.


My current options are to turn off UHD and use the HDMI-In, which would allow atmos to the soundbar or I could hook the blu-ray to the other HDMI on the tv and have sound routed through ARC, which works but will not pass atmos.


Frankly, the number of atmos blu-ray is rather small, so perhaps the issue rather moot.



Paul

Ratman 10-24-2019 02:45 PM

:)
Hope you find a solution.

Otto Pylot 10-24-2019 03:47 PM

^^^ Me too. Wouldn't surprise me if this isn't a Vizio issue. If they call back they'll probably blame the cables ;)

Ratman 10-24-2019 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otto Pylot (Post 58728122)
Wouldn't surprise me if this isn't a Vizio issue.

No matter... no one will ever know. :D

Otto Pylot 10-24-2019 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratman (Post 58728156)
No matter... no one will ever know. :D

;)


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