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post #1 of 7 Old 10-28-2019, 10:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Recommended long run HDMI cables in the UK

Now that I have a 4k HDR screen (LG C9), it appears I'm certainly in need of a new HDMI cable to run between it and my PC, as the existing one seems incapable of getting full HDR at 4k 60hz.


The run length is 15m+, via wall mounted trunking. So there are several 90 degree turns in that as it runs from one room where the PC resides to the living room where the screen is. What cable would people recommend, available here in the UK, that should successfully handle 4k HDR @60Hz 4:4:4 ?


I'm guessing probably a fibre cable and note Amazon UK has an increasing number of Asian (Yehua, Atzebe etc) fibre cables claiming suitability listed at around the £50 mark. Certainly a lot cheaper than the scant few Ruipro cables mentioned (£129 for the same length) Redmere based copper cables with the same claimed specs look to be too thick and inflexible to get in the trunking.


So anyone here in the UK in a similar situation with some advice or experience with fibre cable we can get here in the UK ?
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post #2 of 7 Old 10-28-2019, 11:25 AM
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Now that I have a 4k HDR screen (LG C9), it appears I'm certainly in need of a new HDMI cable to run between it and my PC, as the existing one seems incapable of getting full HDR at 4k 60hz.


The run length is 15m+, via wall mounted trunking. So there are several 90 degree turns in that as it runs from one room where the PC resides to the living room where the screen is. What cable would people recommend, available here in the UK, that should successfully handle 4k HDR @60Hz 4:4:4 ?


I'm guessing probably a fibre cable and note Amazon UK has an increasing number of Asian (Yehua, Atzebe etc) fibre cables claiming suitability listed at around the £50 mark. Certainly a lot cheaper than the scant few Ruipro cables mentioned (£129 for the same length) Redmere based copper cables with the same claimed specs look to be too thick and inflexible to get in the trunking.


So anyone here in the UK in a similar situation with some advice or experience with fibre cable we can get here in the UK ?
At 15m+, your only real viable option is the Ruipro4k hybrid fiber cable, but they are not cheap. Installing your cable in a 1.5" - 2.0" conduit is the ONLY way to future proof your cabling because one, it makes for upgrading your cabling easier and safer (and you will probably be needing to upgrade your cabling in the future anyway) and two, it's much easier to control bend radius which can adversely affect signal propagation. The hybrid fiber cables have an excellent bend radius but you still need to be aware of that. If you want to go cheaper that's your decision but there are quite a few Chinese knock-off cables that look like the Ruipro cables but if you take apart the connector ends you'll readily see the difference in quality build and components used. There's a reason why Ruipro cables are expensive. Also, no cable is 100% guaranteed to work in any given setup because there are other variables that can affect a successful and reliable cable connection other than the data pipe. As a side note, ARC, especially eARC is going to be difficult for any cable at that length.

Redmere (now called Spectra 7) cables are ok but there is no copper-only cable that is going to work reliably for 4k HDR at those lengths. Heavy gauge cables also put an undo strain on the HDMI inputs which is no good.

There is a distributor/installer in the UK (Joe Fernand) who frequents these forums so you might want to look him up.

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post #3 of 7 Old 10-28-2019, 12:54 PM
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'there are several 90 degree turns' - possibly an issue for any/all HDMI cables as the HDMI 'hoods' on Active, Fibre and Hybrid Fibre cables are not of the 'slim' variety!

'scant few Ruipro cables mentioned' - how many do you require? RuiPro4K, there is only one variety, is tried and tested to work at 15m+

Our testing of Fibre vs. Hybrid Fibre - came out in favour of Hybrid Fibre when it comes to speed of handshake and compatibility with a wide range of systems. Testing with a Test Pattern Generator is very different to real world installations.

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post #4 of 7 Old 10-28-2019, 04:53 PM - Thread Starter
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'there are several 90 degree turns' - possibly an issue for any/all HDMI cables as the HDMI 'hoods' on Active, Fibre and Hybrid Fibre cables are not of the 'slim' variety!

'scant few Ruipro cables mentioned' - how many do you require? RuiPro4K, there is only one variety, is tried and tested to work at 15m+

Our testing of Fibre vs. Hybrid Fibre - came out in favour of Hybrid Fibre when it comes to speed of handshake and compatibility with a wide range of systems. Testing with a Test Pattern Generator is very different to real world installations.

Joe

The 90 degree turns are not an issue as regards feeding cable, as the trunking is surface mounted (not in wall) with a pop off cover, basically it's just a matter of laying the cable in place in the open trunking, bending it round in the corners, then when all in place pop the covers back on. So basically the concern was about the cable itself being bent at 90 degrees.


Ahh, as to how many I want, I was just hoping they had tiers....slim hope of course. Also, the Ruipro cable listings on Amazon UK state these are HDMI 2.0b 18Gbs capable, no mention of them being HDMI 2.1 capable. So given I will want to utilise HDMI 2.1 as soon as NVidia/AMD GPUs are released that can do that, spending £130 on a cable that perhaps isn't ready for that, which I might have to upgrade relatively soon, is a bit steep ! I would rather invest in a cable that is 2.1 guaranteed or a cheaper cable in the interim...
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post #5 of 7 Old 10-28-2019, 07:03 PM
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The 90 degree turns are not an issue as regards feeding cable, as the trunking is surface mounted (not in wall) with a pop off cover, basically it's just a matter of laying the cable in place in the open trunking, bending it round in the corners, then when all in place pop the covers back on. So basically the concern was about the cable itself being bent at 90 degrees.


Ahh, as to how many I want, I was just hoping they had tiers....slim hope of course. Also, the Ruipro cable listings on Amazon UK state these are HDMI 2.0b 18Gbs capable, no mention of them being HDMI 2.1 capable. So given I will want to utilise HDMI 2.1 as soon as NVidia/AMD GPUs are released that can do that, spending £130 on a cable that perhaps isn't ready for that, which I might have to upgrade relatively soon, is a bit steep ! I would rather invest in a cable that is 2.1 guaranteed or a cheaper cable in the interim...
With regards to the 90 degree bending, you still need to make sure that the bend is as gentle as is possible. Nothing sharp. You will definitely have more flexibility with the Ruipro cables but still keep away from a sharp bend.

No one is mfr'ing a cable that has been validated for HDMI 2.1 feature sets, yet. Regardless of what the cable mfrs's marketing claims are. One of the main reasons is that there are still no consumer devices that can utilize all of the HDMI 2.1 features sets that require that bandwidth, so testing and validating is difficult to do. It's easy to put some sort of pattern generator on either end of a cable and say it's 48Gbps, but it's another thing entirely to prove that the cable can successfully and reliably transmit data that requires 48Gbps without errors. Besides, your source and sink devices have to have the same HDMI 2.1 chipsets in them otherwise backwards compatibility will occur, which basically means you will only be capable of HDMI 2.0 features because that's the in-common protocols. Either your source or sink will limit what it can do to HDMI 2.0, 18Gbps.

HDMI.org does not allow for active cables to be certified like they do for passive cables up to 25'. Hybrid fiber cables are active. Hopefully that will change but until if, and when it does, your best bet will be to use a cable from a mfr that has shown that their cables will work with HDMI 2.1 once source material and devices are widely available.

Ruipro will be releasing their Ruipro8k hybrid fiber cables in the next couple of months. Even though the cables will not be certified (QR label) like the Premium High Speed HDMI cables are, they are tested and validated by an ATC using HDMI.org approved testing devices and protocols. That being said, no cable mfr will offer a 100% guarantee that their cables will work reliably for any given setup or cable distance for HDMI 2.0 and definitely not HDMI 2.1. There are just too many variables involved besides the data pipe.

Using a conduit similar to your setup is the best thing you can do because it affords easy and safe access. Realistically you will more than likely be swapping out cables, especially if your ultimate goal is to utilize all of what HDMI 2.1 has to offer, unless you wait for validated HDMI 2.1 devices to be in consumer's hands and the various cables are put into use.

You can go cheap and hope for the best but your chances are much better for success (reliability = longevity) with a better made cable from a mfr with a known reputation for high quality cables. Distance is going to be your enemy.

I would go with a well made cable that has been shown to work well at your distance for HDMI 2.0 protocols. Then wait for HDMI 2.1 compatible devices and see what happens, updating your cable to one that has been tested for HDMI 2.1 feature sets at that time (Ruipro8k). The LG C9 offers HDMI 2.1 but it is still unclear if that is just eARC and VRR (which is possible with the HDMI 2.0 chips) or if the chip sets that LG are using (proprietary and modified chips) are capable of being upgraded to more, if not all, of the HDMI 2.1 features. Keep in mind that ARC/eARC may have issues at those distances as it does now. Only time will tell.

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post #6 of 7 Old 10-29-2019, 05:04 AM
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'Tiers' not really a thing once you get into Fibre/Hybrid Fibre - unless you count features such as 'ruggedised' for external/touring work, which makes the cable thicker and less flexible.

Ideally there is enough space in your conduit to allow the cable to 'sweep' around the corners - if not I would be worried about any cable working reliably at 90'.

As Otto says HDMI 'Version' numbers is a big favourite with the marketing folk - but not that reliable an indication of anything when it comes to real world testing of cables.

The best you can do for now is go with a reliable solution which works in your current setup and then see how things go once you start to change out your hardware, if that hardware update is not too far down the line possibly you stick to 1080p for now and continue with your installed cable and then see how things go with current spec Hybrid Fibre once folk can actually test working systems.

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post #7 of 7 Old 10-29-2019, 05:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Joe Fernand View Post
'Tiers' not really a thing once you get into Fibre/Hybrid Fibre - unless you count features such as 'ruggedised' for external/touring work, which makes the cable thicker and less flexible.

Ideally there is enough space in your conduit to allow the cable to 'sweep' around the corners - if not I would be worried about any cable working reliably at 90'.

As Otto says HDMI 'Version' numbers is a big favourite with the marketing folk - but not that reliable an indication of anything when it comes to real world testing of cables.

The best you can do for now is go with a reliable solution which works in your current setup and then see how things go once you start to change out your hardware, if that hardware update is not too far down the line possibly you stick to 1080p for now and continue with your installed cable and then see how things go with current spec Hybrid Fibre once folk can actually test working systems.

Joe

Yes, the cable certainly won't have any hard 90 degree kink in it, there's enough space in the trunking even in corners for the cable to curve (much less than the photo examples of Ruipro cable wrapping around a pencil for example!)


Just as an aside, my existing 15m run of copper HDMI cable (in the same trunking) can deliver 8bit (with dithering, as it shows up in Windows) 4k HDR 4:4:4 @ 30 Hz from the PC to the LG C9 with no real issues, so hopefully it won't take much of a bump up in cable quality to get that to 60Hz. 4k at 10bit, 4:4:4 or @120 hz is a completely different story.
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