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post #1 of 8 Old 11-27-2019, 04:59 PM - Thread Starter
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HDbaseT recommendations?

I'm finally making the jump to 4K and I need to get an HDMI extender for my ~50' CAT6 run. I'm not a very technical person but it's my understanding that I should be getting something that does [email protected] 4:4:4 and HDCP 2.2. From my research, there are products available from under $200 all the way up to over $1,000. So what's the difference? Am I going to get burned if I pick up one of the cheaper ones? What am I really getting if I spring for the more expensive ones? If anyone has any specific recommendations, that would be awesome!
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post #2 of 8 Old 11-27-2019, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Romolo View Post
I'm finally making the jump to 4K and I need to get an HDMI extender for my ~50' CAT6 run. I'm not a very technical person but it's my understanding that I should be getting something that does [email protected] 4:4:4 and HDCP 2.2. From my research, there are products available from under $200 all the way up to over $1,000. So what's the difference? Am I going to get burned if I pick up one of the cheaper ones? What am I really getting if I spring for the more expensive ones? If anyone has any specific recommendations, that would be awesome!
50' is difficult for a lot of cables, regardless of marketing claims. It depends on what you want to do (ARC/CEC, 4k HDR, etc.). If your CAT-6 run is not a solid core CAT-6 cable you may have issues. Hopefully you've installed your cable in a conduit.

4k HDR can have issue with extenders because 4k HDR is really finicky with its connection. Any "break" in the chain can affect the pq. It also depends, on a large part, on the HDMI chipsets in your source and sink. The cable is just a data pipe, it can't change or alter the signal.

As far as HDBT goes, you need to find a vendor who is offering the latest chipsets, but keep in mind that there will probably still be some video compression.

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post #3 of 8 Old 11-28-2019, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
50' is difficult for a lot of cables, regardless of marketing claims. It depends on what you want to do (ARC/CEC, 4k HDR, etc.). If your CAT-6 run is not a solid core CAT-6 cable you may have issues. Hopefully you've installed your cable in a conduit.

4k HDR can have issue with extenders because 4k HDR is really finicky with its connection. Any "break" in the chain can affect the pq. It also depends, on a large part, on the HDMI chipsets in your source and sink. The cable is just a data pipe, it can't change or alter the signal.

As far as HDBT goes, you need to find a vendor who is offering the latest chipsets, but keep in mind that there will probably still be some video compression.
My priority is 4:4:4 [email protected] I don't think I need ARC.

I don't know if my Cat6 cable is solid core or not, is there a way I can check without cutting it open?

How do I know what the latest chipsets are? I've read that there's video compression but it's "visually lossless" and I'm fine with that.

Is 4K HDR really that difficult over extenders? I see several products that claim to do this on Amazon with a lot of positive customer reviews (some negative too but overall more positive). Examples:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HH1212W/
https://www.amazon.com/HDbaseT-Exten...dp/B0754GSLC2/
https://www.amazon.com/J-Tech-Digita...dp/B07HFHH924/

But then I see something like the HDFury Maestro, which seems popular on here, that will cost about several times higher than the products I listed above! How do I know which one to get?
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post #4 of 8 Old 11-28-2019, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Romolo View Post
My priority is 4:4:4 [email protected] I don't think I need ARC.

I don't know if my Cat6 cable is solid core or not, is there a way I can check without cutting it open?

How do I know what the latest chipsets are? I've read that there's video compression but it's "visually lossless" and I'm fine with that.

Is 4K HDR really that difficult over extenders? I see several products that claim to do this on Amazon with a lot of positive customer reviews (some negative too but overall more positive). Examples:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HH1212W/
https://www.amazon.com/HDbaseT-Exten...dp/B0754GSLC2/
https://www.amazon.com/J-Tech-Digita...dp/B07HFHH924/

But then I see something like the HDFury Maestro, which seems popular on here, that will cost about several times higher than the products I listed above! How do I know which one to get?
Solid core CAT-6 usually comes in spools and is not terminated. The wire gauge is usually AWG23 and it is not terminated. Solid core can be terminated with a punch down keystone jack for a ethernet connection of some form of active terminations like HDBT for HDMI. A lot of folks install CAT-6 ethernet cable, which is terminated. It does work but as the distance gets longer, pushing 4k HDR may be difficult.

You'd have to check with the vendor as to which version the chipsets are. I don't remember if HDBT uses the same active chipsets that the active, Spectra 7 HDMI cables have but those chipsets are the HT8181 set.

4k HDR can and does have issues as the cable length gets longer, and if you place adapters, extenders, wall plates in-between the source and sink, you may have issues. All you can do is try. The HD Fury is a good product so try that. Just make sure you carefully read the return policy of whatever you purchase.

There are no 100% guarantees. What works for some may not work for others. Is your 50' run installed in-wall?

I never trust an atom, they make up everything.
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post #5 of 8 Old 11-28-2019, 11:47 AM
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If you can hold off a little the next generation of HDBT chipset will start to appear in early 2020 - with the latest chips you can avoid any compression (even of the 'visually lossless' type ).

HDBT has matured into a big thing in the Pro AV market so there are lots of products with all manner of add on features you will not require for a Residential system - look for the features you require and stick to that spec.

https://www.valens.com/press-release...ssed-4k-60-444

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post #6 of 8 Old 12-04-2019, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
Solid core CAT-6 usually comes in spools and is not terminated. The wire gauge is usually AWG23 and it is not terminated. Solid core can be terminated with a punch down keystone jack for a ethernet connection of some form of active terminations like HDBT for HDMI. A lot of folks install CAT-6 ethernet cable, which is terminated. It does work but as the distance gets longer, pushing 4k HDR may be difficult.

You'd have to check with the vendor as to which version the chipsets are. I don't remember if HDBT uses the same active chipsets that the active, Spectra 7 HDMI cables have but those chipsets are the HT8181 set.

4k HDR can and does have issues as the cable length gets longer, and if you place adapters, extenders, wall plates in-between the source and sink, you may have issues. All you can do is try. The HD Fury is a good product so try that. Just make sure you carefully read the return policy of whatever you purchase.

There are no 100% guarantees. What works for some may not work for others. Is your 50' run installed in-wall?
Would there be any visible indication on the cable itself if it's solid core? The And yes, the run is in-wall.
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post #7 of 8 Old 12-04-2019, 08:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Fernand View Post
If you can hold off a little the next generation of HDBT chipset will start to appear in early 2020 - with the latest chips you can avoid any compression (even of the 'visually lossless' type ).

HDBT has matured into a big thing in the Pro AV market so there are lots of products with all manner of add on features you will not require for a Residential system - look for the features you require and stick to that spec.

https://www.valens.com/press-release...ssed-4k-60-444

Joe
Hey Joe, I was hoping that you'd chime in.

I might be able to hold off until early 2020 but I'm worried that the first extenders with the new chipset will cost an arm and a leg. Also, if the current generation is truly "visually lossless", what perceptible benefits am I gaining from having zero compression?

You mentioned that there are many HDBT products aimed at the pro AV market. Aside from run length, I haven't really noticed much of a difference between the more expensive options and the ~$250 ones on Amazon. Do you think I would be fine with getting one of these cheaper brands?
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post #8 of 8 Old 12-04-2019, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Romolo View Post
Would there be any visible indication on the cable itself if it's solid core? The And yes, the run is in-wall.
Probably not. If the cable appears to have come with a pre-installed connector end (looks like a "standard" ethernet cable) it's more than likely not. Most solid core CAT-6 cable is AWG23, which is a fairly thick cable and is not terminated with the standard connector end. I terminated my solid core with CAT-6 punch down keystone wall jacks so I could connect a CAT-6 cable (standard ethernet cable) externally to the wall and then run that to a powered gigabit switch.

If your cable is in-wall, it might be difficult to swap the cable out if the cable has been tacked down to the studs anywhere along its run. Depending on how the installer installed it, you may be able to follow the path with a fish stick and run new cabling. If the existing cable is not tacked down, you may be able to use it as a pull string by attaching new cable to it and pulling it through. The other thing to be aware of is bend radius. If you have too sharp of a bend in the cable, 4k HDR and beyond may have reliability issues due to hampering of the signal path. Conduit takes care of both of those issues.

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