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post #1 of 13 Old 04-04-2020, 01:19 AM - Thread Starter
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HDMI MECHS and CABLES

Hi Folks


About to upgrade my AVR, thinking of a mid level Denon like maybe X4500H


I will be running new cables and will have sheets off the walls, so now's the time to do everything that can be foreseen.


Will my 7 year old HDMI cable cut it or have there been advances that I will be missing out on if I keep it?


Run length will be around 8 to 10 metres. Can folks please give their recommendations for a cable pared to this AVR?


Finally, if I buy a flash new cable but run it through my old wall mechs................?
I can't see any advertising when looking at mechs that go on about all the new standards? They just seem the same as I bought 7 years ago. I like to use these mechs to keep things tidy.


Thanks for your help.


Regards


Lyndon
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post #2 of 13 Old 04-04-2020, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyndon11 View Post
Hi Folks


About to upgrade my AVR, thinking of a mid level Denon like maybe X4500H


I will be running new cables and will have sheets off the walls, so now's the time to do everything that can be foreseen.


Will my 7 year old HDMI cable cut it or have there been advances that I will be missing out on if I keep it?


Run length will be around 8 to 10 metres. Can folks please give their recommendations for a cable pared to this AVR?


Finally, if I buy a flash new cable but run it through my old wall mechs................?
I can't see any advertising when looking at mechs that go on about all the new standards? They just seem the same as I bought 7 years ago. I like to use these mechs to keep things tidy.


Thanks for your help.


Regards


Lyndon
Go to HDMI.org and catch up on the various versions and capabilities of HDMI. It just keeps changing. My preference is for solid copper passive cables under 20 feet in length. Longer cables and active powered cables can be a problem; so read up before buying a particular cable and make sure you can return it if it does not work. I never put HDMI cables in the wall but if you do put them in conduit to make it easier to run new cables.

I have no idea what the term "Mechs" refers to.

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post #3 of 13 Old 04-04-2020, 08:47 AM
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I'm with @Postmoderndesign . Runs up to 25' maximum will be fine with Premium High Speed HDMI cables (with the QR label for authenticity) for HDMI 2.0. They are passive cables. Runs over 25' the recommendation from a lot of us is to use hybrid fiber cables (Ruipro4k). They meet all of the HDMI 2.0 option sets and are active cables. However, they are a bit expensive. If your walls are open, and at 25' - 30' I'd install 2" conduit and run your cables in there with a pull string for future pulls. The conduit will make it a lot easier to replace/install new cables should you need to do so (more than likely) and control bend radius (sharp 90 degree bends). Video technology will always outpace connection technology so the likelyhood of upgrading cables to meet those demands is high. You can also install solid copper core CAT-6/6a cabling (non-CCS/CCA and not CAT-6 pre-terminated ethernet patch cable) for future connections (ethernet with punch down keystone jacks or HDMI with HDBT). Just give your self a decent service loop in the j-box at either end for ease of connection. You could also run coax for future connections as well. If you don't need the extra cabling then it's not that expensive to leave it in place. If, down the road, you decide you do, it's a helluva lot easier to make the connections than to pull a new cable if you don't have conduit.



The most reliable connection will be source to sink, with no wall plates, extenders, adapters, etc in-between.


HDMI.org is your best source but navigating around for information can be confusing. HDMI 2.0 is the current specification for HDMI (4k HDR). Premium High Speed HDMI cables have been tested by HDMI.org (ATC, Authorized Testing Center) to meet all of the HDMI 2.0 options sets so they are certified. The max certification length is 25' and the cables are passive. Active cables are not allowed as of yet to be certified by HDMI.org so you won't find an ATC certified active cable, copper only or fiber/hybrid fiber. I wouldn't be too concerned about HDMI 2.1 yet unless your a gamer. And then the options that are currently "necessary" for gaming are already available on the HDMI 2.0 chipsets, should the device mfr choose to upgrade the chipset. Keep in mind that what determines what you will get is the HDMI chipsets in the source and sink end (they should both be of the same version and offer the same option sets) for reliability/compatibility. The cable is just the data pipe.

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post #4 of 13 Old 04-04-2020, 02:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Postmoderndesign View Post
Go to HDMI.org and catch up on the various versions and capabilities of HDMI. It just keeps changing. My preference is for solid copper passive cables under 20 feet in length. Longer cables and active powered cables can be a problem; so read up before buying a particular cable and make sure you can return it if it does not work. I never put HDMI cables in the wall but if you do put them in conduit to make it easier to run new cables.

I have no idea what the term "Mechs" refers to.
Hi


Thanks for the reply. Mech's are in photo. HDMI port that clips into wall plate. Cable goes in one end. You plug a short cable in the other side of the mech. If you don't do it this way you just have a mess hanging out the wall.
Does this make sense?


Thanks


Lyndon
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post #5 of 13 Old 04-04-2020, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyndon11 View Post
Hi


Thanks for the reply. Mech's are in photo. HDMI port that clips into wall plate. Cable goes in one end. You plug a short cable in the other side of the mech. If you don't do it this way you just have a mess hanging out the wall.
Does this make sense?


Thanks


Lyndon

You can use pass-through wall plates. Amazon and other places carry them. As I said, if you are going to push 4k HDR at 30' or so you may experience issues because of the wall plate ("break" in the cable continuity). 4k HDR can be very finicky with its cable connections. All you can do is try. You may be lucky with using the wall plate, but if you encounter issues, it's probably related to the wall plate connection. Again, the use of a conduit will make the connection at the termination point easier but plan ahead. The connection is especially important if you decide to use an active cable because they need a power source and usually draw that from the HDMI port.

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post #6 of 13 Old 04-05-2020, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyndon11 View Post
Hi


Thanks for the reply. Mech's are in photo. HDMI port that clips into wall plate. Cable goes in one end. You plug a short cable in the other side of the mech. If you don't do it this way you just have a mess hanging out the wall.
Does this make sense?


Thanks


Lyndon
Thanks for the reply. I would use the term HDMI keystone jack. but I agree with Otto and would use a wall plate HDMI pass through and run the cable direct from the source to the sink.

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post #7 of 13 Old 04-05-2020, 02:11 PM
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Installed HDMI Cables - it is all down to the signal you are aiming to pass over the cable, HD (1080p) will most likely work without a problem. 4K UHD is likely to be an issue, either now or in the future.

Ideally install Conduit, Pull cord, a couple of solid core, non-CCA/CCS CAT6 (backup option) and for all current video formats a RuiPro4K Hybrid Fibre HDMI cable.

As others have suggested for 4K UHD I would ditch the wall plate and go with a ‘brush’ style wall plate.

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post #8 of 13 Old 04-09-2020, 10:15 AM
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Installed HDMI Cables - it is all down to the signal you are aiming to pass over the cable, HD (1080p) will most likely work without a problem. 4K UHD is likely to be an issue, either now or in the future.

Ideally install Conduit, Pull cord, a couple of solid core, non-CCA/CCS CAT6 (backup option) and for all current video formats a RuiPro4K Hybrid Fibre HDMI cable.

As others have suggested for 4K UHD I would ditch the wall plate and go with a ‘brush’️ style wall plate.

Joe
Not to hijack this thread BUT:0)
Do you think balun’s using Solid Copper Cat6 will be a thing of the future as to long runs 25’ and up........

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post #9 of 13 Old 04-09-2020, 10:31 AM
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Not to hijack this thread BUT:0)
Do you think balun’s using Solid Copper Cat6 will be a thing of the future as to long runs 25’ and up........

As an option, yes. Solid Core CAT-6a/7 (non-CCA/CCS and not CAT-6 pre-terminated ethernet cable) as long as the HDBT chipsets keep up-to-date. I think if you are installing conduit (1.5" - 2.0") you can't go wrong running some solid core along with hybrid fiber cable and a pull string, plus other cable like coax if you think you'll need that as well. The wall ingress/egress points can have pass-through wall plates to maintain cable continuity from source to sink. That's about as best as one can currently do as far as future proofing goes.

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Last edited by Otto Pylot; 04-09-2020 at 10:35 AM.
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post #10 of 13 Old 05-03-2020, 02:01 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm with @Postmoderndesign . Runs up to 25' maximum will be fine with Premium High Speed HDMI cables (with the QR label for authenticity) for HDMI 2.0. They are passive cables. Runs over 25' the recommendation from a lot of us is to use hybrid fiber cables (Ruipro4k). They meet all of the HDMI 2.0 option sets and are active cables. However, they are a bit expensive. If your walls are open, and at 25' - 30' I'd install 2" conduit and run your cables in there with a pull string for future pulls. The conduit will make it a lot easier to replace/install new cables should you need to do so (more than likely) and control bend radius (sharp 90 degree bends). Video technology will always outpace connection technology so the likelyhood of upgrading cables to meet those demands is high. You can also install solid copper core CAT-6/6a cabling (non-CCS/CCA and not CAT-6 pre-terminated ethernet patch cable) for future connections (ethernet with punch down keystone jacks or HDMI with HDBT). Just give your self a decent service loop in the j-box at either end for ease of connection. You could also run coax for future connections as well. If you don't need the extra cabling then it's not that expensive to leave it in place. If, down the road, you decide you do, it's a helluva lot easier to make the connections than to pull a new cable if you don't have conduit.



The most reliable connection will be source to sink, with no wall plates, extenders, adapters, etc in-between.


HDMI.org is your best source but navigating around for information can be confusing. HDMI 2.0 is the current specification for HDMI (4k HDR). Premium High Speed HDMI cables have been tested by HDMI.org (ATC, Authorized Testing Center) to meet all of the HDMI 2.0 options sets so they are certified. The max certification length is 25' and the cables are passive. Active cables are not allowed as of yet to be certified by HDMI.org so you won't find an ATC certified active cable, copper only or fiber/hybrid fiber. I wouldn't be too concerned about HDMI 2.1 yet unless your a gamer. And then the options that are currently "necessary" for gaming are already available on the HDMI 2.0 chipsets, should the device mfr choose to upgrade the chipset. Keep in mind that what determines what you will get is the HDMI chipsets in the source and sink end (they should both be of the same version and offer the same option sets) for reliability/compatibility. The cable is just the data pipe.
Thanks Mate.


Sorry for the slow reply. I have cat 5e running everywhere, would you recommend I pull it out and go cat 6a while I'm doing all this work? I can terminate the cable myself. Cat 7, mmm, that stuff is real expensive and comes in a 300m box.

I'll be following your recommendations on the conduit.
On a side note, I currently stream movies from my Hard drive via my network to the TV then to the amp Via ARC then out of the speakers. Question is on format. This will be my first time into surround, how will that work? I understand if you use a Blu-ray to the AVR it does the decoding or up-scaling etc of relevant formats. But what happens when streaming from a HD?
Sorry for my ignorance.


Regards


Lyndon
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post #11 of 13 Old 05-03-2020, 08:23 AM
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Thanks Mate.


Sorry for the slow reply. I have cat 5e running everywhere, would you recommend I pull it out and go cat 6a while I'm doing all this work? I can terminate the cable myself. Cat 7, mmm, that stuff is real expensive and comes in a 300m box.

I'll be following your recommendations on the conduit.
On a side note, I currently stream movies from my Hard drive via my network to the TV then to the amp Via ARC then out of the speakers. Question is on format. This will be my first time into surround, how will that work? I understand if you use a Blu-ray to the AVR it does the decoding or up-scaling etc of relevant formats. But what happens when streaming from a HD?
Sorry for my ignorance.


Regards


Lyndon

It's been awhile since I've checked into the various categories of cabling but my understanding is that CAT-7 is not "certified", I'm not sure if that's the correct terminology, so I would go with solid core CAT-6a. It usually comes non-terminated in spools of 25' or greater. I've been using solid core CAT-6 for years to extend my ethernet connections and it has been rock solid. If you've got access to your walls (I don't remember if your walls are open for remodeling or not), then running 1.5" - 2.0" conduit where you'll need it should be able to accommodate multiple cables, and a pull string, easily. I would look for flexible conduit that is smooth, and not ribbed on the inside, for easier pulling. You could run extra solid core CAT-6a, coax, etc.


I don't stream anything from my computer as I don't have a video collection or server to feed my panels so it's best if someone else answers that. I do not that streaming from a computer is another level of complexity so I don't want to steer you in the wrong direction.

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post #12 of 13 Old 05-03-2020, 11:42 AM
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I believe the correct term is ratified rather than certified. For an article on why cat 7 was never ratified: https://www.flukenetworks.com/blog/c...ned-category-7
"Despite its cable sharing capabilities, Category 7 didn’t have much of a chance. In 2010, ISO/IEC introduced Class FA channels and Category 7A cabling. Primarily intended to support future 40 Gigabit Ethernet over copper, Category 7A bumped the 600 MHz frequency of Category 7 up to 1000 MHz. Once again ahead of its time (since 40GBASE-T just became a standard two years ago), the 1000 MHz frequency and low delay skew made Category 7A ideal for CATV and other video applications requiring much higher frequencies. In fact, several AV equipment manufacturers specify Category 7A for use in their systems.

While also never recognized within TIA, Category 7A today has found its niche in AV and cable sharing applications, and it remains a popular choice for LAN cabling in parts of Europe – essentially putting an end to Category 7 as we know it (or as we didn’t know it). Unfortunately, Category 7A’s 1000 MHz performance didn’t prove enough for 40GBASE-T, which IEEE defined on shielded Category 8 (TIA) and Category 8.1/8.2 (ISO/IEC) cabling specified to 2000 MHz. But rumor has it that it was a somewhat simple task to tweak the Category 7A cable design to meet Category 8 compliance since it was already fully shielded and well ahead of Category 6A in performance."

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post #13 of 13 Old 05-03-2020, 12:34 PM
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I believe the correct term is ratified rather than certified. For an article on why cat 7 was never ratified: https://www.flukenetworks.com/blog/c...ned-category-7

That's the term I was looking for. Thanks for the article

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