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post #1 of 25 Old 04-16-2020, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Need advice 18Gbps VS 48Gbps

Hello my friends, I have just bought a Samsung 65" Q90T qled tv and a Sony DN-1080 AV receiver and need to replace my HDMI cables. I also have an Xbox one S and will be getting the new Xbox series x this fall. The Q90T doesn't support full hdmi 2.1 but some features like Earc is supported. Sony also supports earc. My question is do I need the faster hdmi for this set up? I was going to buy the Audioquest forest hdmi that does 18Gbps (was getting a good deal) but right now they don't have any faster hdmi. I know cheaper hdmi like Monoprice will probably do the same job... But my real question is should I go with the 18 or will I be loosing out on some things like 120fps. Should I go with the 48Gbps? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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post #2 of 25 Old 04-16-2020, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Oh forgot to mention... I'm running 5.1 surround sound. Probably doesn't change anything... Lol
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post #3 of 25 Old 04-16-2020, 11:17 AM
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perhaps you should have asked this question in the thread that exist for the TV? Perhaps someone who owns it there can answer this.

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post #4 of 25 Old 04-16-2020, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Daigle View Post
Hello my friends, I have just bought a Samsung 65" Q90T qled tv and a Sony DN-1080 AV receiver and need to replace my HDMI cables. I also have an Xbox one S and will be getting the new Xbox series x this fall. The Q90T doesn't support full hdmi 2.1 but some features like Earc is supported. Sony also supports earc. My question is do I need the faster hdmi for this set up? I was going to buy the Audioquest forest hdmi that does 18Gbps (was getting a good deal) but right now they don't have any faster hdmi. I know cheaper hdmi like Monoprice will probably do the same job... But my real question is should I go with the 18 or will I be loosing out on some things like 120fps. Should I go with the 48Gbps? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

No. eARC and VRR are available on the HDMI 2.0 chipsets should the mfr choose to implement those options with a firmware upgrade. HDMI chipsets and option sets are still centered around HDMI 2.0, which is standardized for 18Gbps. More than enough for 4k HDR and HD Audio, depending on the length of your cable run. Both HDMI chipsets at the source and sink end should be the same version and build for optimal performance ("HDMI 2.1 compatible", limited HDMI 2.1 capability, etc). Even if you had an HDMI 2.1 chipset that could actually transmit at 48Gbps error free, there are no options sets (video standards) that can take full advantage of the bandwidth yet.


If your devices are marketed as "HDMI 2.1" then they have to list, per HDMI.org marketing guidelines, which HDMI 2.1 option sets are currently available (not potential future updates). My guess is that they will still be standardized to 18Gbps so a chipset that supposedly can deliver 48Gbps to a consumer device (not a testing lab device) is meaningless.


As far as the cable goes, if your run is under 25', then a Premium High Speed HDMI cable (with QR label for authenticity) is all you need for HDMI 2.0. from any reputable mfr/reseller. AudioQuest are way overpriced and overhyped for what you get and will not perform any better than a Premium High Speed cable of the same length. Don't worry about 48Gbps cables until there are consumer devices, and source material, that can actually take advantage of the complete HDMI 2.1 option sets.


5.1 audio makes no difference. I run 5.1 audio on one HTS with an LCD panel and Premium High Speed cables and 5.1 upstairs on an OLED with hybrid fiber cables and the only difference in audio is the quality of the receivers and speakers.

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post #5 of 25 Old 04-16-2020, 11:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for your response. I believe I won't need anything longer than 3 feet. So from my understanding I should just go with the 18Gbps. I just wanted to make sure I would be ok with my current set up and that I wasn't going to miss out on certain features and that it would work fine with what I have going on. 🙂
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post #6 of 25 Old 04-16-2020, 12:57 PM
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Thank you for your response. I believe I won't need anything longer than 3 feet. So from my understanding I should just go with the 18Gbps. I just wanted to make sure I would be ok with my current set up and that I wasn't going to miss out on certain features and that it would work fine with what I have going on. 🙂

At 3' you won't have any difficulty with a Premium High Speed HDMI cable (certified at 18Gbps). It all depends on what the source and sink HDMI chipsets can do. The cable is just the data path.

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post #7 of 25 Old 04-16-2020, 02:59 PM
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8k Cables are OK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Daigle View Post
Hello my friends, I have just bought a Samsung 65" Q90T qled tv and a Sony DN-1080 AV receiver and need to replace my HDMI cables. I also have an Xbox one S and will be getting the new Xbox series x this fall. The Q90T doesn't support full hdmi 2.1 but some features like Earc is supported. Sony also supports earc. My question is do I need the faster hdmi for this set up? I was going to buy the Audioquest forest hdmi that does 18Gbps (was getting a good deal) but right now they don't have any faster hdmi. I know cheaper hdmi like Monoprice will probably do the same job... But my real question is should I go with the 18 or will I be loosing out on some things like 120fps. Should I go with the 48Gbps? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Purchase the 8K HDMI cables from Audiano, Zeskit or Cable Matters. For me it improved my quantum TV and sound. Audioquest is too expensive. All of the cables I named can be purchased from amazon and there is a 3 pack of 8k Cable Matters cables for a great price. Best of luck!
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post #8 of 25 Old 04-16-2020, 03:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Interesting. I know the Audioquest are more money and have no issues with going with something a little cheaper as long as I get the best results. I was also looking at the Monoprice DynamicView Ultra 8K Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, 48gbps. I see lots of people talking about them online. The price is definitely great... The only issue I had with it was its not certified and I did see some comments on how it does not achieve its advertising 48Gbps...more like 20ish. Not sure how much truth there is to this. I did look at Audiano and it does say certified on them. Problem is I'm in Canada and right now the shipping is high. Still looking see I can find cheaper.
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post #9 of 25 Old 04-16-2020, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Daigle View Post
Interesting. I know the Audioquest are more money and have no issues with going with something a little cheaper as long as I get the best results. I was also looking at the Monoprice DynamicView Ultra 8K Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, 48gbps. I see lots of people talking about them online. The price is definitely great... The only issue I had with it was its not certified and I did see some comments on how it does not achieve its advertising 48Gbps...more like 20ish. Not sure how much truth there is to this. I did look at Audiano and it does say certified on them. Problem is I'm in Canada and right now the shipping is high. Still looking see I can find cheaper.

8k cables won't give you any better performance than "4k" cables on the HDMI 2.0 chipsets because the bandwidth can not be pushed any faster than 18Gbps. The cable is just the data pipe. It can not increase performance in any way, just provide an error free (hopefully) data path keeping within the standards of HDMI 2.0. CTS testing is happening now for the connectors, and some cable mfrs may even indicate that as "certified", which is fine. But until you have HDMI chipsets that have been certified to meet the performance characteristics of the HDMI 2.1 options sets, you're still stuck at HDMI 2.0.


Cable Matters, for example, do make good cables. And their 8k copper only cables are available up to 10', which is within the HDMI 2.1 specification of 1m - 3m (3' - 9'). However, there is no mention on how they validated their claims and if you look at their marketing, they call their cables "48Gbps Ultra 8k HDMI Cables". That implies HDMI 2.1 but according the HDMI.org, the official terminology will be "Ultra High Definition HDMI Cables" for cables that meet the HDMI 2.1 option sets. The product description also just lists the resolution that requires the 48Gbps bandwidth, but there aren't any devices yet that have been certified for that, let alone source material. The rest of the short spec list is all HDMI 2.0. Bottom line, there is no way to validate the 48Gbps bandwidth in a consumer device at present, passive or active cables.


A three-pack of 48Gbps 8k HDMI 10' cables for $18? Really? The cables will work for HDMI 2.0 with no issues at all, especially at 10'. But, imo, you'd be better off just getting a 10' Premium High Speed cable that you know has been certified and tested by HDMI.org to meet the specifications that they themselves designed for the HDMI 2.0 options. Either way it's your money and decision. A Monoprice certified cable will give you the same performance than the other cables mentioned.

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post #10 of 25 Old 04-16-2020, 04:33 PM
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i am not pro on this topic. but I did buy best "so called" 8k hdmi cables on amazon I could find for new lg oled tv in wall routing.


https://community.cedia.net/blogs/da...tes-for-4k-hdr

price was cheap, hopefully they provide more than 18gb when new ps5 comes out. I have had no issues so far. this is brand i bought. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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post #11 of 25 Old 04-16-2020, 05:09 PM
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i am not pro on this topic. but I did buy best "so called" 8k hdmi cables on amazon I could find for new lg oled tv in wall routing.


https://community.cedia.net/blogs/da...tes-for-4k-hdr

price was cheap, hopefully they provide more than 18gb when new ps5 comes out. I have had no issues so far. this is brand i bought. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Zeskit is one of those cable mfrs who actually state that their connectors have been CTS tested (required by HDMI.org) and they list which HDMI 2.1 option sets they have been tested and passed for. 16' is a bit long for a passive cable but it does look good. All you need now is source and sink devices with the latest HDMI 2.1 chipsets (certified at 48Gbps) and source material that requires that bandwidth. I would certainly trust this cable over the Cable Matters one that I discussed above. The cable design inside the connector ends is very similar to the Ruipro8k cables. If your in-wall cabling is inside a conduit then you are "future proofed" about as best as you can be for the present time.
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post #12 of 25 Old 04-16-2020, 06:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Thoughts on this? If I want to go with a higher gbps. Future proof 😉.the price is right. https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_...ionsandAnswers
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post #13 of 25 Old 04-16-2020, 07:15 PM
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Thoughts on this? If I want to go with a higher gbps. Future proof 😉.the price is right. https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_...ionsandAnswers

I don't get why you are so adamant about 48Gbps, especially at 3'. Even if the cable is capable of that bandwidth, you don't have the HDMI chipsets capable of that bandwidth so it is a meaningless option. No cable is future proof, even a certified cable, which this is not. eARC does not require 48Gbps if that's a concern. When 48Gbps and HDMI 2.1 devices becomes readily available, just swap out the 3' cable for a passive cable that by that time will have been certified for the HDMI 2.1 option sets. Am I missing something here? What is your setup?


I just looked up your tv and it has an HDMI 2.1 port on input 4 (ALLM and VRR is all that's listed) and eARC on input 3. It's odd that Samsung separated the two features because that means you can't have eARC on the HDMI 2.1 input. It would be interesting to dig down and see what other HDMI 2.1 options are supported as well, if any. The panel is not 8k so you don't have to worry about the 48Gbps required bandwidth.

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Last edited by Otto Pylot; 04-16-2020 at 07:31 PM.
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post #14 of 25 Old 04-16-2020, 07:25 PM - Thread Starter
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I know... I'm so overthinking this and I'm still learning as I go. I really do appreciate your feedback. My set up is Samsung 65"Q90T qled. The Q90T is equipped with four HDMI ports. Notably, HDMI port 4 offers a high-bandwidth connection that supports 4K/120 Hz with 10-bit color. I will have it going through a Sony DN-1080. I don't believe it supports full hdmi 2.1 but did get an update for earc. And last but not least I have an Xbox one S for gaming/4K player.
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post #15 of 25 Old 04-16-2020, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Daigle View Post
I know... I'm so overthinking this and I'm still learning as I go. I really do appreciate your feedback. My set up is Samsung 65"Q90T qled. The Q90T is equipped with four HDMI ports. Notably, HDMI port 4 offers a high-bandwidth connection that supports 4K/120 Hz with 10-bit color. I will have it going through a Sony DN-1080. I don't believe it supports full hdmi 2.1 but did get an update for earc. And last but not least I have an Xbox one S for gaming/4K player.

I just edited my post so I don't know if you saw the second part about your tv.

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post #16 of 25 Old 04-16-2020, 07:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes I saw your edit. Great so Samsung had to make it even more confusing lol. So with my set up and knowing what we know about the Q90T how would you go about my hdmi set up? Still all 18gbps hdmi's right? Would it be xbox one and cable box to Sony receiver and Sony receiver hdmi with earc to the tv hdmi earc? Right now I'm using the Xbox as my 4k player. I mean there would only be one hdmi from the receiver to the tv. What do I do with the hdmi port on the tv that is 2.1? Kind of wasted. Like you said... Not sure if it's a true 2.1 since earc is separate.... 🤔
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post #17 of 25 Old 04-16-2020, 07:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Clearly I want to have everything in my 5.1 surround sound...
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post #18 of 25 Old 04-16-2020, 08:16 PM
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Clearly I want to have everything in my 5.1 surround sound...

First off, I am assuming that 3' is your total cable length, source to sink, with no adapters, extenders, wall plates in-between?


If you are set on 48 Gbps then I would suggest the Zeskit cable discussed above. At least is has ATC tested connectors so that's a big plus. Audio is not going to be a problem if your receiver supports HD Audio (Dolby TrueHD, DTS-MA, lossless Atmos, etc) and eARC. For eARC or ARC to work you will have to use the ARC labeled ports on your receiver as well as your Samsung. But if the Samsung ports are correct, you'll have to choose between eARC/ARC or HDMI 2.1. If you use the eARC labeled port, but don't enable eARC/ARC on your Samsung or receiver, then the port will function like a regular HDMI port, which is probably HDMI 2.0. All of your audio will go thru the receiver and you'll just be sending video to the panel. If you're a gamer then you'll need to use the HDMI 2.1 port and be satisfied with HD Audio from your sources connected to the receiver. The only advantage of eARC is that it can carry HD Audio via the eARC channel whereas ARC is limited to 5.1 and not HD Audio. If you're not using the onboard apps for streaming then you don't need to push audio from your tv to the receiver.


I don't need/use ARC/eARC because all of my streaming is thru an ATV4k. I haven't setup Atmos either so my audio is discrete 5.1 for streaming and HD Audio when I play disks via the UHD/BD player. All of my connections go thru the Yamaha receiver with a single HDMI cable to the tv. I don't bother with the onboard apps that much and I use an optical cable from the tv to the receiver for cable tv (local HDTV stations only) audio, which is discrete 5.1. I'm watching the last episode of Devs right now and the audio is awesome as the pq is glorious.


I use 5' HDMI cables that are for the HDMI 2.0 option sets.

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post #19 of 25 Old 04-17-2020, 05:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all that info! I've decided to go with that brand but I don't need in wall so this is what I picked. https://www.amazon.ca/gp/aw/d/B07RZ8...YHL3E081&psc=1
Also the Sony receiver I have DN1080 does not have hdmi 2.1.....but the hdmi out that has arc has been firmware updated to support Earc. So as this is the only out should I go from that to the earc hdmi port on the Samsung? If I go to the hdmi 2.1 instead will I notice a difference with a 5.1 surround sound? Like you said not sure why they would have separated the 2. Here is some info on the Sony hdmi.... https://helpguide.sony.net/ha/strdn1...001221270.html
From looking on line and on unboxing videos like like Samsung Q90T 4 hdmi ports are all 2.0 with 2.1 features like earc and Allm. The are just not certified ports. So I guess if I put it in the hdmi earc port it should be ok and support the other features? Ugh! I'll be glad when I get everything next week and have it all hooked up. Hopefully it'll all be ok... 🤞
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post #20 of 25 Old 04-17-2020, 06:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Just spoke with Samsung and so all 4 hdmi ports are 2.0...with 2.1 features. They told me to hook up the Xbox one directly to the gaming hdmi port on the tv for better gaming experience. Then the tv hdmi earc port to the hdmi earc on the receiver. As far as cable box and potential future 4k blu ray all connected directly to the receiver. Does this seem good and proper to you?
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post #21 of 25 Old 04-17-2020, 06:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Also... Makes me think my current set up might of been wrong. I have everything including the Xbox one going through the receiver and then hdmi arc on receiver to earc to tv. Everything always worked fine but maybe not the right way to set up?
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post #22 of 25 Old 04-17-2020, 08:51 AM
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Just spoke with Samsung and so all 4 hdmi ports are 2.0...with 2.1 features. They told me to hook up the Xbox one directly to the gaming hdmi port on the tv for better gaming experience. Then the tv hdmi earc port to the hdmi earc on the receiver. As far as cable box and potential future 4k blu ray all connected directly to the receiver. Does this seem good and proper to you?

That's what I figured. All HDMI ports are HDMI 2.0 with the exception of the port indicated for HDMI 2.1. eARC is possible on HDMI 2.0 if that port is configured for it. HDMI 2.1 features just means ALLM and VRR. They may have plans for future upgrades to those ports for more HDMI 2.1 options so at present there is no need for a 48Gbps cable. It can't hurt but you will not get any better performance because the HDMI ports are standardized around an 18Gbps bandwidth.


For eARC to work you will have to have eARC capability on both of the ports specified for ARC/eARC, receiver and tv. If not, the best you will get is ARC. To use the two HDMI 2.1 features, then you'll have to use the other port specified for HDMI 2.1, but doing so you will lose the ability to implement ARC and/or eARC. Other mfrs use the same chipset(s) on a single port so that you can have eARC and some HDMI 2.1 features, with the ability for future HDMI 2.1 upgrades. I don't know why Samsung separated the two for their 4k flagship so maybe someone else can answer that.



If you connect your Xbox directly to your tv then you'll need to use an optical cable from the tv to the receiver for audio or use the tv's speakers. I don't know about this Samsung but in the past, tv's with externally connected HDMI devices could not pass audio other than maybe 2-channel stereo from the tv to the receiver. The gaming port on the tv probably has Menu features disabled to decrease lag time so that certain features (some pq options for example) are not available to you. You'll have to experiment to see what works best for you.


You never did answer the cable length question. Is 3' the distance from the receiver to the tv? Is that the same distance for the Xbox as well?


I would use the receiver as your hub. IOW, all connections to the receiver first with a single HDMI cable going to the tv for video only. That way, all audio is decoded properly, regardless of what it is (HD Audio for example), for the best 5.1 audio experience you can get. If you are going to use the onboard apps of the Samsung then you'll need to get the audio associated with the apps back to the receiver either via an optical cable (for discrete 5.1 audio only) or ARC. If you're satisfied with that setup then you're good to go. Give it a week or so of playing/testing. If your gaming experience is not what you want, then try the gaming port or the HDMI 2.1 port on the Samsung and see how that goes. Audio may be an issue so you may be stuck with using an optical cable or, if your Xbox has two HDMI outs, you may be able to use one for audio, in which case you could try the ARC/eARC port and see how that works while connecting the other Xbox HDMI to the gaming/HDMI 2.1 port. As I said, I'm not a gamer nor do I use the two-HDMI port output setup so I'll have to leave the exact details of the how-to for someone else to answer better.

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post #23 of 25 Old 04-17-2020, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the info! Yes all Cables will 3 feet as all of the components are close enough. So from what I read and understood from your last post is I should probably do what I already did with this current set up. Witch is xbox, cable box and blu ray all to receiver and then an hdmi out of the receivers hdmi/earc port into the tv port that has earc. Since I'm getting 5.1 surround sound that way and everything seems to work I guess this would be the ideal setup for me. Like you said it's going to take playing with it to make sure it's all good. Ok I think I'm all good now, unless you have something else to add? lol. I really appreciate you taking the time to go over it with me and being patient as I'm no expert on this at all.
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post #24 of 25 Old 04-17-2020, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Daigle View Post
Thanks for all the info! Yes all Cables will 3 feet as all of the components are close enough. So from what I read and understood from your last post is I should probably do what I already did with this current set up. Witch is xbox, cable box and blu ray all to receiver and then an hdmi out of the receivers hdmi/earc port into the tv port that has earc. Since I'm getting 5.1 surround sound that way and everything seems to work I guess this would be the ideal setup for me. Like you said it's going to take playing with it to make sure it's all good. Ok I think I'm all good now, unless you have something else to add? lol. I really appreciate you taking the time to go over it with me and being patient as I'm no expert on this at all.

As far as the cable goes, I have Comcast with the older legacy STB (1080 only). I don't need the 4k box because it's just for network broadcast tv, which is 1080 only. What I discovered is that the legacy box didn't play nice when Deep Color was enabled on the single tv HDMI input that was coming from the receiver so I had to connect it directly to the tv and disable Deep Color on that input so that's why I setup audio with an optical cable from the tv to the receiver for cable tv audio. I don't know what your cable setup is but that's why I had to connect the legacy xfinity box directly to the tv.


Let us know how it all works out. You can always pm me if you have questions or issues.

I never trust an atom, they make up everything.
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post #25 of 25 Old 04-17-2020, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
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I definitely will let you know how it all works out. My cable box is 1080p and like you said there is no 4k broadcast (except maybe some sports). Anyways I will try the set up next week. The tv has been ordered and should be delivered then. Thanks again! Hopefully everything will all work like it's supposed to. 🤞
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