Anyone delt with "Reference Audio Mods"? - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 147 Old 12-28-2010, 03:19 PM
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The biggest difference between high end and BB type systems is not so much the components used, but rather the design of the circuitry.
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post #62 of 147 Old 12-28-2010, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmologist View Post

The biggest difference between high end and BB type systems is not so much the components used, but rather the design of the circuitry.

Well, after i get BD back i will let you know if the mods were any good ?
If not then i guess i got suckered... LOL
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post #63 of 147 Old 12-28-2010, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motogp34 View Post

Well, after i get BD back i will let you know if the mods were any good ?
If not then i guess i got suckered... LOL

How will you know if it makes a difference? What will you compare it to and with?
As to your previous post, better parts have not been demonstrated to make audible differences. Perhaps they are more reliable? But that too needs to be tested and demonstrated.
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post #64 of 147 Old 12-28-2010, 07:06 PM
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How will you know if it makes a difference? What will you compare it to and with?
As to your previous post, better parts have not been demonstrated to make audible differences. Perhaps they are more reliable? But that too needs to be tested and demonstrated.
There are some movies that i am very familiar with, that i will compare with. And i am not comparing sound / vid only. Since my SR8002 does all the audio.
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post #65 of 147 Old 12-28-2010, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motogp34 View Post
There are some movies that i am very familiar with, that i will compare with. And i am not comparing sound / vid only. Since my SR8002 does all the audio.
Don't you use HDMI to send video to the TV with the BD8002? How would a power supply upgrade possibly improve the picture? Does it enhance the data?
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post #66 of 147 Old 12-28-2010, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by WilliamZX11 View Post
Don't you use HDMI to send video to the TV with the BD8002? How would a power supply upgrade possibly improve the picture? Does it enhance the data?
I run both sound and Vid through the HDMI from the BD8002 to the SR8002 then HDMI to the TV.

I heard from someone else that the PS was good for the Vid, so when i spoke to them at MOD he told me the PS is mostly for Sound and does some for the Vid quality. So i thought i would give it a try ?
All of his mods for the BD8002 are for sound quality, which i don't listen to 2 ch anyway and the SR8002 does the processing for audio anyway.
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post #67 of 147 Old 12-28-2010, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motogp34 View Post

There are some movies that i am very familiar with, that i will compare with. And i am not comparing sound / vid only. Since my SR8002 does all the audio.

I see. You will rely on memory of what they looked like before the mod and what it looks like after the mod, right? How long did the mod take including shipping both ways.
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post #68 of 147 Old 12-29-2010, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motogp34 View Post

I heard from someone else that the PS was good for the Vid, so when i spoke to them at MOD he told me the PS is mostly for Sound and does some for the Vid quality. So i thought i would give it a try ?

I heard from someone that these work great:

http://www.magnetictherapymagnets.com/deep-therapy.html

Think I should give it a try?
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post #69 of 147 Old 12-29-2010, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerim View Post

I heard from someone that these work great:

http://www.magnetictherapymagnets.com/deep-therapy.html

Think I should give it a try?

You? Definitely.
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post #70 of 147 Old 12-29-2010, 07:19 AM
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You? Definitely.

Well if you recommend it, I'm ordering now. You always give great advice, thanks.
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post #71 of 147 Old 12-29-2010, 08:06 AM
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Just don't stand too close to CRT's.

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #72 of 147 Old 12-29-2010, 08:34 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motogp34 View Post

Well, after i get BD back i will let you know if the mods were any good ?
If not then i guess i got suckered... LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerim View Post

I heard from someone that these work great:

http://www.magnetictherapymagnets.com/deep-therapy.html

Think I should give it a try?

Why learn things the hard way when there are easier ways?
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post #73 of 147 Old 12-29-2010, 08:37 AM
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I can see some here are anxious to buy those bridges I have for sale.

I just heard from a friend who knows someone that said the Statue of Liberty was for sale. I should have my hands on the deed by tonight.

We will be offering free upgrades with every bridge you buy. Our upgrades can start with a 20 year old KLH and after we are done adding 5.00 worth of super secret goop and some big wires it will outperform a MacIntosh.

To speed up the mod process, please supply us with your bank account number and routing code so that you don't need to be bothered with all that silly check writing stuff. You can trust US!
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post #74 of 147 Old 12-29-2010, 08:41 AM
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It is completely amazing the amount of suckers in the world. What is even more scary is that they continue to post on here, the one place where you should learn to avoid all of that nonsense.
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post #75 of 147 Old 12-29-2010, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmologist View Post


I am seriously thinking of starting a before and after comparison service....................

Would never work. Modders are selling the possibility of wish fulfillment for audio nirvana dreams.

Your version would be selling sobriety. That won't inspire folks to empty out their wallets.

Quote:
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool. ~ Richard P. Feynman
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post #76 of 147 Old 12-29-2010, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

Just don't stand too close to CRT's.

What are they?

But, that may be a good magic trick to play on someone with that antique
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post #77 of 147 Old 12-29-2010, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geekhd View Post

Why learn things the hard way when there are easier ways?

Oh, but it is sooo much fun the hard way
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmologist View Post

...
We will be offering free upgrades with every bridge you buy. ...!

This offer included on that bridge in Michigan? Or is that one already taken>

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruins29 View Post

It is completely amazing the amount of suckers in the world. ...

Not to me. Just think of how much $$$ they contribute to the world economy.
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post #78 of 147 Old 12-29-2010, 05:33 PM
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As i have said before i have never done any upgrades for mods before and thought i would give it a try... Aren't some things trial & error

So anybody that has posted here, have they ever done any upgrades or mods before. And if not, how would you be 110% sure they don't work ?

Another scenario, I had a few people tell me about mods to my car to help with the handling. So who do i have to trust besides the guy sell and installing the parts and the few people who told me to do it. I was skeptical about spending $1000 worth of mods on my car. Well, i finally did it and it was a night and day difference.

Has anyone heard back from that guy with the 2 BD8002 about how it ended.
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post #79 of 147 Old 12-29-2010, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerim View Post

I heard from someone that these work great:

http://www.magnetictherapymagnets.com/deep-therapy.html

Think I should give it a try?

And yes i have tried this.
From personal experience i found it helped !
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post #80 of 147 Old 12-29-2010, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motogp34 View Post

And yes i have tried this.
From personal experience i found it helped !

I don't think anyone here is surprised. I'm happy for you.
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post #81 of 147 Old 12-29-2010, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motogp34 View Post

As i have said before i have never done any upgrades for mods before and thought i would give it a try... Aren't some things trial & error .

Yes, I understand you are trying this but how will you know if it makes a difference or not? You need some sort of yardstick, no?

Yes, many things can be trial and error but, one needs to be testing along the way to know if something is working or not, no?



Quote:
Originally Posted by motogp34 View Post

And yes i have tried this.
From personal experience i found it helped !

Well, that is interesting and explains everything.
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post #82 of 147 Old 12-29-2010, 05:57 PM
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I don't think anyone here is surprised. I'm happy for you.

And again, their have been many articles to back this up. How would you know if it doesn't ?
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post #83 of 147 Old 12-29-2010, 06:54 PM
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The makers of Extenze (Viagra knockoff) have been ordered to cease and desist. They face a multimillion FDA fine and civil suits. They too had lots of "testimonials"/

Mechanical adjustments and mods to a car is a whole other ballpark. You can alter suspension, timing, fuel mix or carburetion, handling, drag, steering etc. The "upgrades" to an amp or BD player, etc mean zero UNLESS you add analog outputs. That is not an upgrade so to speak but a connection modification. The source signals will still be identical.

The power cable supplied from the manufacturer does what is is supposed to do and supplies the current and voltage necessary AC > DC power supply that drives the circuitry. ZERO change in a digitally decoded signal will result either in audio or video. I am curious as to why you trust the original manufacturer to build a fine mechanism and pick up/sensor assembly BUT you believe he stopped short of building a power supply properly.

BTW, 99% of the power supply boards are NOT built by the device manufacturer. They are built by off shore companies and sold in the hundreds of thousands and they submit the unit to UL and CSA for approval. The AV equipment manufacturers simply get a declaration of acceptance copy on the original power supply assembly so they can list the device as UL listed for sales in the US or Canada.

Phihong is one of the largest power supply manufacturers in the world. They build cheap wallwarts all the way to medical grade SWPS.

There are about 100 SWPS manufacturers worldwide that supply almost every other device manufacturer.
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post #84 of 147 Old 12-29-2010, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmologist View Post

The makers of Extenze (Viagra knockoff) have been ordered to cease and desist. They face a multimillion FDA fine and civil suits. They too had lots of "testimonials"/

Mechanical adjustments and mods to a car is a whole other ballpark. You can alter suspension, timing, fuel mix or carburetion, handling, drag, steering etc. The "upgrades" to an amp or BD player, etc mean zero UNLESS you add analog outputs. That is not an upgrade so to speak but a connection modification. The source signals will still be identical.

The power cable supplied from the manufacturer does what is is supposed to do and supplies the current and voltage necessary AC > DC power supply that drives the circuitry. ZERO change in a digitally decoded signal will result either in audio or video. I am curious as to why you trust the original manufacturer to build a fine mechanism and pick up/sensor assembly BUT you believe he stopped short of building a power supply properly.

BTW, 99% of the power supply boards are NOT built by the device manufacturer. They are built by off shore companies and sold in the hundreds of thousands and they submit the unit to UL and CSA for approval. The AV equipment manufacturers simply get a declaration of acceptance copy on the original power supply assembly so they can list the device as UL listed for sales in the US or Canada.

Phihong is one of the largest power supply manufacturers in the world. They build cheap wallwarts all the way to medical grade SWPS.

There are about 100 SWPS manufacturers worldwide that supply almost every other device manufacturer.


I can agree with that, i`am not saying your wrong.
But is it impossible for someone else to improve on others tech ?
Again, i have now idea if these mods/upgrades are legit myself.

The FDA passes drugs all the time that end up killing people and or serious side-affects...
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post #85 of 147 Old 12-30-2010, 02:34 AM
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When you hear the technically inexperienced folks (modders and their clients) make claims about a power supply "opening up the soundstage, bringing out the instruments true resonance" etc in the case of audio or "deepening the blacks or extending the whites"in video systems, it proves one thing. These guys may know the names of the parts but they have no clue as to how the circuitry actually works.

The power supply does 2 things only. It takes the 120volt AC power input from the grid and rectifies it either in a linear style design or in switching design and outputs whatever filtered DC rails are required by the circuits.

The voltage and current required are dictated by the circuit design and basic components used to achieve the operation and output levels required by the original design specifications.

I have yet to see any modder/upgrader provide actual calibrated measurement changes they claim result from their "work" in a chart side by side, item by item, with the specs from the unmodded original. These would include the original specs such as output power, impedance, THD, gain, signal to noise ratios, channel separation, freq deviation, freq response, noise floor, input sensitivity, black levels, overall current consumption, ripple, overvoltage protection, etc. All you see is anecdotal claims of wonderful performance-post mod.

If you alter any circuit from any standpoint, claiming improved performance using any parameter, those changes MUST show up in some sort of electrical format and therefore CAN BE MEASURED-pre and post modification. This is a basic fact of physics.

There are a few "modders" that even claim the improvements are outside the realm of measurability by any current test instrument yet the same system is connected to existing technology speakers or video displays.

Modifications such as adding transformer-isolated inputs and outputs or preamp outs in the case of audio modifications is done all the time, I have been doing that sort of thing for 40 years on pro and consumer products. That is not claiming to improve the performance, only the connection possibilities.

There claims are made for cables as well, yet not one single claim can be verified by lab testing. There have been numerous cases where uber expensive cables such as "Munster" were compared to off the shelf bulk cables or even coat hangers. No improvement was ever noted when the cable gauges were matched to the system requirements using standard resistance and impedance charts. There are lots of offers out there to anyone claiming they do but no takers yet. They just keep falling back on the "your ears simply cannot possibly hear what mine do" response. That is not exactly accurate or testable.

Ever hear the commercials about Carfax? The used car dealer just tries to assure the potential buyer that the car is primo and the buyer just says "show me the Carfax". Same thing here. Ask for the "upgrade" specs that you will get on your specific model after the work and what is the guarantee that those specs will in fact be true and testable.

Save your money. Buy a quality device with a good warranty, don't "upgrade" it and enjoy the music.
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post #86 of 147 Old 12-30-2010, 03:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmologist View Post

The biggest difference between high end and BB type systems is not so much the components used, but rather the design of the circuitry.

That';s why there are all these high end components that are mid-fi components with a different front panel!
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post #87 of 147 Old 12-30-2010, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmologist View Post

When you hear the technically inexperienced folks (modders and their clients) make claims about a power supply "opening up the soundstage, bringing out the instruments true resonance" etc in the case of audio or "deepening the blacks or extending the whites"in video systems, it proves one thing. These guys may know the names of the parts but they have no clue as to how the circuitry actually works.

The power supply does 2 things only. It takes the 120volt AC power input from the grid and rectifies it either in a linear style design or in switching design and outputs whatever filtered DC rails are required by the circuits.

The voltage and current required are dictated by the circuit design and basic components used to achieve the operation and output levels required by the original design specifications.

I have yet to see any modder/upgrader provide actual calibrated measurement changes they claim result from their "work" in a chart side by side, item by item, with the specs from the unmodded original. These would include the original specs such as output power, impedance, THD, gain, signal to noise ratios, channel separation, freq deviation, freq response, noise floor, input sensitivity, black levels, overall current consumption, ripple, overvoltage protection, etc. All you see is anecdotal claims of wonderful performance-post mod.

If you alter any circuit from any standpoint, claiming improved performance using any parameter, those changes MUST show up in some sort of electrical format and therefore CAN BE MEASURED-pre and post modification. This is a basic fact of physics.

There are a few "modders" that even claim the improvements are outside the realm of measurability by any current test instrument yet the same system is connected to existing technology speakers or video displays.

Modifications such as adding transformer-isolated inputs and outputs or preamp outs in the case of audio modifications is done all the time, I have been doing that sort of thing for 40 years on pro and consumer products. That is not claiming to improve the performance, only the connection possibilities.

There claims are made for cables as well, yet not one single claim can be verified by lab testing. There have been numerous cases where uber expensive cables such as "Munster" were compared to off the shelf bulk cables or even coat hangers. No improvement was ever noted when the cable gauges were matched to the system requirements using standard resistance and impedance charts. There are lots of offers out there to anyone claiming they do but no takers yet. They just keep falling back on the "your ears simply cannot possibly hear what mine do" response. That is not exactly accurate or testable.

Ever hear the commercials about Carfax? The used car dealer just tries to assure the potential buyer that the car is primo and the buyer just says "show me the Carfax". Same thing here. Ask for the "upgrade" specs that you will get on your specific model after the work and what is the guarantee that those specs will in fact be true and testable.

Save your money. Buy a quality device with a good warranty, don't "upgrade" it and enjoy the music.


Thx for the info
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post #88 of 147 Old 12-30-2010, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post
There is absolutely no way these "upgrade" companies can do something that the original couldn't do period. That is where the flaw exists in thinking these are actually real "improvements"

btw, you would be amazed how cheap those parts are when bought in bulk
Your opinion of this would be appreciated

http://www.audaud.com/article.php?ArticleID=8339

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post #89 of 147 Old 12-30-2010, 09:11 AM
 
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motogp34, keep in mind that there are boutique cable dealers and salesman from those mod companies disguised as common posters who put out bunch of praising BS about their products. In other words, watch out for shills like these. vvv
https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...7&postcount=92
https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...16&postcount=1
https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...6&postcount=12
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post #90 of 147 Old 12-30-2010, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by geekhd View Post
motogp34, keep in mind that there are boutique cable dealers and salesman from those mod companies disguised as common posters who put out bunch of praising BS about their products. In other words, watch out for shills like these. vvv
https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...7&postcount=92
https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...16&postcount=1
https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...6&postcount=12
You have GOT to be kidding!
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