Originally Posted by robbjay
Sammy - yes Z1ES has the statement of you look hard enough. But i) I didn't find it in my research and ii) it never occurred to me that there would be such a limit given the 1TB drive and ability to add USB larger drives. My understanding is now that it is not so much a software/database issue but a crap processor - which would also explain the severe speed limitations in music transfer and database syncing. Even the Bluesound Node can index 200,000 tracks overnight.
However, the Z1ES does not purge the database if you detach the hard drive like you say the S1 does. Thank goodness, otherwise it would have been possible to get all my music synced given I had to do it in 50GB-100GB chunks - it looks for added tracks and syncs them on top.
The Z1ES sounds fantastic with my Exposure amp and Linn speakers, so I am reluctantly going to be looking for another solution now that it is clear that while I can have local storage of all of my collection, it cannot index it all. If only Sony would make it Roon-ready, but they are fixated on proprietary solutions. So they lose a customer.
Well, it could be that Sony felt that if one chose to store WAV files on the HAP, that would require storage closer to 1TB, especially pop, and even require an external HDD for expansion depending upon how long the tracks were such as Jazz music that often have longer tracks lengths than pop/rock, etc. However, with Classical, any recordings of Early Music through the Baroque can have CD's with as many as 30+ tracks, so those can eat up that 20,000 music files limit a lot faster than music of later eras.
I think the external HDD was probably concieved as a convinience feature if someone had already ripped and stored their music library on an external drive--that is my guess (Even the rip CD's directly to the HAP feature was added only YEARS after intial release because I think many users wanted such a feature because a fair number of people don't like the exta step of ripping their music before transfer, and to rip directly is more intuituve to those who have never ripped music)
. In my case, I have my music library backed up on multiple external HDD and internals of a PC, so I could easely just connect one of my external drives as my primary source for the HAP, but I would not want to to do that anyway. AND thank you for the Z1ES info about external drive disconnection. Perhaps I have faulty memory, so I will double-check my user guide for the S1 and see if it has the same beahvior as the Z1.
Agreed. The appaling speed of copying music files to the HAP is a the ONLY real PITA and frustration of the device for me. I won't use the HAP Transfer desktop for transfers because it is TOO SLOW, and I have my own system for adding new CD's to the HAP without adding CD's already added before (and if I do find some mistake of mine, it is always BEST to ERASE the entire CD from the HAP, and then COPY the same entire CD with the corrections to the HAP, otherwise it is a mess of files, and transferring one or a few CD's takes little time).
I have settled on using the plain old Windows file COPY command (COPY and PASTE is best) and it only takes several HOURS instead of DAYS, if you are transferring the bulk of your library (just be certain to set your PC's Power Settings to NOT go to SLEEP or turn off EVER during the transfer and be certain to set the HAP Auto Standby feature to OFF because the last firmware update from Sony BROKE the HAP staying ON during any Windows file transfers even if Auto Standby set to a time.)
Windows COPY command used for a few CD's is plenty fast enough, alhtough it takes a few minutes.
While it is true that Windows could fail to copy a few files or do so with errors, I have found that it has never failed, and it is easy to fix something here or there should I find a problem, and I can easily perform a manual comparison of precise size and number of files investing a few minutes to be certain all files have transferred (I've also invested in GS Rich Copy 360 to maintain exact copies of my backups across FOUR locations without errors. It was worth the money not to have to guess for the back-ups, and I use GS Rich Copy 360 to backup all my PC data, so it pays for itself there, too).
I have an ALL Gigabit LAN, and yet, even with the faster windows copy command, the HAP will only allow a tansfer of the files at no greater a speed than 15Mbps--YES FIFTEEN!
And that is WARP SPEED faster than using the HAP Transfer for desktop PC. According to the user manual (as you allued), the file copy AND the database entry occure at the SAME TIME (I would prefer it just COPY as fast as possible and then we can let time pass while the HAP deals with the database), so it appears that the speed of transfer is dictated to how fast the HAP is filling the database, so your thoughts on cheap-skate processor seem spot on. I think I have observed over time (I had to re-transfer my enitire librarly a few time because of ME, not the HAP) that the HAP can be HUNDREDS of tracks BEHIND after the end of file transfer, and the processing of those tracks does not go as fast as one may expect in this modern tech world. Yeah, cheap processor seems about right.
Truly, all this about the transfer process is the ONLY thing about the HAP that I despise. I suppose Sony was trying to keep the retail price as low as they could with such compromises, but frankly, both the S1 and Z1ES are GREATLY over-priced, which is typical of Sony retail pricing, but there is no better device than the HAP for what I wanted--it was EXACTLY what I had been searching for over YEARS. All other "servers" were just that: servers. I don't want to run my PC just to hear some music, or suffer because stand-alone servers feed the music over Ethernet or WiFi with all their risks of jitter and just plain degradation of sound quality (I tell you, each device sending music data to what ever listening device you have can all sound DIFFERENT) and the Cocktail has some abysmal reviews about features and ability to edit data along with horrid Classical Music metadata for its locally loaded database--AND the quality of the SOUND of the HAP is excellent, especially the advantage of a LOCAL device that will not encounter the variables of traveling through the network and with possible jitter. The design of the HAP was to eliminate as many of the avenues of CORRPUPTION that could diminish the sound quality: it was designed as a LOCAL device; eihter connect your speakers or use the ANALOG out to your amp becase the DAC in the HAP is quite sufficient and who knows how good a DAC each person has. However, over time Sony added ability to add you own DAC in the chain, and Sony allowed the HAP to act as a server, which comes with its quality RISKS. All of that after people demanded it, so it is beyond just a local device, but I would not care to use it as a server. The output of the HAP is what it should be: EXCELLENT and matches my better CD players with full, rich soundstage.
However, I LOVE the HAP in every other respect, and I would highly recommend it to anyone serious about having a device to efficiently allow digital access to one's music with many good and powerful features, including easy editing of metadata AND with the capacity to Silo itself from the risks of being a "server," but it can be a server if you want to use it that way, and it is FAR, FAR less expensive than the infamously, ridiculously OVER-OVER-OVER-OVER PRICED similar products by Naim
, which, according to my research, does NOT have many of the features nor do many of the things the HAP can do, much to the annoyed frustration of Naim users, especially because they paid such a bargain price for the Naim device instead of just building their own symphony hall and hiring musicians to play for them on demand.
Sony is still supporing the HAP line with updates as recently as a few months ago, last May, I think, so they are not abondoning the product support after all these years. Sony did produce the BEST product of its kind--along with the excellent app for tablets that provides the real power of the device--and despite the horror of transfers, after it is all done, it is MORE than worth it,