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post #601 of 611 Old 09-01-2019, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Sammy Snead View Post
Also, I just wanted to be certain that you can edit any of the music metadata fields using the HAP app if there is a mis-match. So, either by accessing the album or the track, you can manually change (type or re-type) the available attributes so the album or track is related to the correct artist, album artist, etc.
I bought my unit as a dealer demo and didn’t get an owners manual so I am learning all the features and how they work through trial and error and internet searches. Thanks again for the information you provided as I am not familiar with how Gracenote works.
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post #602 of 611 Old 09-01-2019, 02:38 PM
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In my manual dated 2013 for the HAP-S1(not the Z1ES), it states the following:


"Number of music files that can be registered
The HDD AUDIO PLAYER supports handling of up to 20,000 music files."



Note that it stated "MUSIC" files. I presume that is the limit for the music database, and not the limit to other types of files that sometimes are stored along with the music files, so that a total number of files could exceed, in the case of the S1, 20,000 total files of various types in the final, grand total, but only 20,000 music files or 20,000 songs or 20,000 movements or parts in the case of Classical.



Now, EVERY device would have to have a limit to its database, as there is always going to be some limit to memory of any kind. I appreciate thet Sony clearly stated the limit of music files in the S1 manual, but are you certain the music file number limit is not somewhere in that very large manual? It can be easy to miss, but I am a strange bird who reads EVERY word of a user guide for a device like this--from top to bottom, page by page, word for wotd--so I came across the music file limit, and it jumped out at me. I've had to go back and re-read that section a few times because my human memory is that bad.



Please, let us know what the "Music File" limit is for the Z1ES. Perhaps it is greater than the S1, as the Z is a Sony "ES". I'm certain that some people have a music collection that could easily surpass the music file number limit of either the S1 or Z1ES, but I would HOPE the Sony Z1 user guide has this info somewhere. Consumers need to know this type of information to consider before purchase.



Also, I find a vulneralbility stated in the S1 manual regarding EXTERNAL HDD's for music storage: if the external is dissconnected, does not the device purge the database regarding those music files on the external HDD, and if that very same external HDD--with no changes as to the files--is re-connected, the unit would have to rebuild that database for the files on the external HDD all over again? That is what I remember reading in the S1 user guide, and because of that, I just won't use the external HDD option for expansion, but use it, perhaps, for a relatively low number of music files of some genre, if my internal HDD runs out of room, not likely for me using FLAC exclusively, and I would pop in a larger internal HDD, anyway.



Let us know of your new deivce that can meet your needs, and certainly tellus anything else you learn from Sony. Best of the best of luck to you.
Sammy - yes Z1ES has the statement of you look hard enough. But i) I didn't find it in my research and ii) it never occurred to me that there would be such a limit given the 1TB drive and ability to add USB larger drives. My understanding is now that it is not so much a software/database issue but a crap processor - which would also explain the severe speed limitations in music transfer and database syncing. Even the Bluesound Node can index 200,000 tracks overnight.

However, the Z1ES does not purge the database if you detach the hard drive like you say the S1 does. Thank goodness, otherwise it would have been possible to get all my music synced given I had to do it in 50GB-100GB chunks - it looks for added tracks and syncs them on top.

The Z1ES sounds fantastic with my Exposure amp and Linn speakers, so I am reluctantly going to be looking for another solution now that it is clear that while I can have local storage of all of my collection, it cannot index it all. If only Sony would make it Roon-ready, but they are fixated on proprietary solutions. So they lose a customer.
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post #603 of 611 Old 09-01-2019, 08:38 PM
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I bought my unit as a dealer demo and didn’t get an owners manual so I am learning all the features and how they work through trial and error and internet searches. Thanks again for the information you provided as I am not familiar with how Gracenote works.
If you go to the Sony Support site, you can download the user manual for your unit FREE of charge. The HAP has a lot of featues and ability to edit music info, etc., etc. Belive me, you want to read the manual to really appreciate all the things it can do, and the power to edit metadata accross and album or even a single track, and it won't have to be trial and error, and just so you know: in my case I turn OFF the Gracenote connection feature, and do all the metadata when I rip using dBpoweramp, which always has superior metadata for Classical across 4 music metadata services AND the ability to load MY OWN, scanned CD cover art in good quality and EXACTLY the album art for my issue or re-issues. Just letting you know that you don't have to depend upon every feature of the HAP to get your music library just the way you like it.


I think you will come to love the HAP more if you know all it can do. Also, using the Playlist funciton has become my go to feature for things like comparing different versions of the same work from different performances/directors/ensambles. And for pop music, the broken heart is a LIFE saver to avoid those rotten tracks that ruin and otherwise decent pop album.


I have NO REGRETS of purchasing the HAP, despite its relatively high price because it is EXACTLY what I was looking for over many YEARS: a stand-alone, LOCAL device that has all the features of a CD player, but with the advantage of all CD's loaded on HDD using a database and app using tablet (tablet provides ALL views/fetures, while the phone does not)with the ability to look-up my library by any number of attributes and the Full Browser view is great, which allow the ability to narrow down the attributes to display just the only the albums you want.


Please download the user guide NOW, and ENJOY!
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post #604 of 611 Old 09-01-2019, 10:07 PM
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Sammy - yes Z1ES has the statement of you look hard enough. But i) I didn't find it in my research and ii) it never occurred to me that there would be such a limit given the 1TB drive and ability to add USB larger drives. My understanding is now that it is not so much a software/database issue but a crap processor - which would also explain the severe speed limitations in music transfer and database syncing. Even the Bluesound Node can index 200,000 tracks overnight.

However, the Z1ES does not purge the database if you detach the hard drive like you say the S1 does. Thank goodness, otherwise it would have been possible to get all my music synced given I had to do it in 50GB-100GB chunks - it looks for added tracks and syncs them on top.

The Z1ES sounds fantastic with my Exposure amp and Linn speakers, so I am reluctantly going to be looking for another solution now that it is clear that while I can have local storage of all of my collection, it cannot index it all. If only Sony would make it Roon-ready, but they are fixated on proprietary solutions. So they lose a customer.
Well, it could be that Sony felt that if one chose to store WAV files on the HAP, that would require storage closer to 1TB, especially pop, and even require an external HDD for expansion depending upon how long the tracks were such as Jazz music that often have longer tracks lengths than pop/rock, etc. However, with Classical, any recordings of Early Music through the Baroque can have CD's with as many as 30+ tracks, so those can eat up that 20,000 music files limit a lot faster than music of later eras.


I think the external HDD was probably concieved as a convinience feature if someone had already ripped and stored their music library on an external drive--that is my guess (Even the rip CD's directly to the HAP feature was added only YEARS after intial release because I think many users wanted such a feature because a fair number of people don't like the exta step of ripping their music before transfer, and to rip directly is more intuituve to those who have never ripped music). In my case, I have my music library backed up on multiple external HDD and internals of a PC, so I could easely just connect one of my external drives as my primary source for the HAP, but I would not want to to do that anyway. AND thank you for the Z1ES info about external drive disconnection. Perhaps I have faulty memory, so I will double-check my user guide for the S1 and see if it has the same beahvior as the Z1.


Agreed. The appaling speed of copying music files to the HAP is a the ONLY real PITA and frustration of the device for me. I won't use the HAP Transfer desktop for transfers because it is TOO SLOW, and I have my own system for adding new CD's to the HAP without adding CD's already added before (and if I do find some mistake of mine, it is always BEST to ERASE the entire CD from the HAP, and then COPY the same entire CD with the corrections to the HAP, otherwise it is a mess of files, and transferring one or a few CD's takes little time).


I have settled on using the plain old Windows file COPY command (COPY and PASTE is best) and it only takes several HOURS instead of DAYS, if you are transferring the bulk of your library (just be certain to set your PC's Power Settings to NOT go to SLEEP or turn off EVER during the transfer and be certain to set the HAP Auto Standby feature to OFF because the last firmware update from Sony BROKE the HAP staying ON during any Windows file transfers even if Auto Standby set to a time.) Windows COPY command used for a few CD's is plenty fast enough, alhtough it takes a few minutes.


While it is true that Windows could fail to copy a few files or do so with errors, I have found that it has never failed, and it is easy to fix something here or there should I find a problem, and I can easily perform a manual comparison of precise size and number of files investing a few minutes to be certain all files have transferred (I've also invested in GS Rich Copy 360 to maintain exact copies of my backups across FOUR locations without errors. It was worth the money not to have to guess for the back-ups, and I use GS Rich Copy 360 to backup all my PC data, so it pays for itself there, too).


I have an ALL Gigabit LAN, and yet, even with the faster windows copy command, the HAP will only allow a tansfer of the files at no greater a speed than 15Mbps--YES FIFTEEN! And that is WARP SPEED faster than using the HAP Transfer for desktop PC. According to the user manual (as you allued), the file copy AND the database entry occure at the SAME TIME (I would prefer it just COPY as fast as possible and then we can let time pass while the HAP deals with the database), so it appears that the speed of transfer is dictated to how fast the HAP is filling the database, so your thoughts on cheap-skate processor seem spot on. I think I have observed over time (I had to re-transfer my enitire librarly a few time because of ME, not the HAP) that the HAP can be HUNDREDS of tracks BEHIND after the end of file transfer, and the processing of those tracks does not go as fast as one may expect in this modern tech world. Yeah, cheap processor seems about right.


Truly, all this about the transfer process is the ONLY thing about the HAP that I despise. I suppose Sony was trying to keep the retail price as low as they could with such compromises, but frankly, both the S1 and Z1ES are GREATLY over-priced, which is typical of Sony retail pricing, but there is no better device than the HAP for what I wanted--it was EXACTLY what I had been searching for over YEARS. All other "servers" were just that: servers. I don't want to run my PC just to hear some music, or suffer because stand-alone servers feed the music over Ethernet or WiFi with all their risks of jitter and just plain degradation of sound quality (I tell you, each device sending music data to what ever listening device you have can all sound DIFFERENT) and the Cocktail has some abysmal reviews about features and ability to edit data along with horrid Classical Music metadata for its locally loaded database--AND the quality of the SOUND of the HAP is excellent, especially the advantage of a LOCAL device that will not encounter the variables of traveling through the network and with possible jitter. The design of the HAP was to eliminate as many of the avenues of CORRPUPTION that could diminish the sound quality: it was designed as a LOCAL device; eihter connect your speakers or use the ANALOG out to your amp becase the DAC in the HAP is quite sufficient and who knows how good a DAC each person has. However, over time Sony added ability to add you own DAC in the chain, and Sony allowed the HAP to act as a server, which comes with its quality RISKS. All of that after people demanded it, so it is beyond just a local device, but I would not care to use it as a server. The output of the HAP is what it should be: EXCELLENT and matches my better CD players with full, rich soundstage.


However, I LOVE the HAP in every other respect, and I would highly recommend it to anyone serious about having a device to efficiently allow digital access to one's music with many good and powerful features, including easy editing of metadata AND with the capacity to Silo itself from the risks of being a "server," but it can be a server if you want to use it that way, and it is FAR, FAR less expensive than the infamously, ridiculously OVER-OVER-OVER-OVER PRICED similar products by Naim, which, according to my research, does NOT have many of the features nor do many of the things the HAP can do, much to the annoyed frustration of Naim users, especially because they paid such a bargain price for the Naim device instead of just building their own symphony hall and hiring musicians to play for them on demand.


Sony is still supporing the HAP line with updates as recently as a few months ago, last May, I think, so they are not abondoning the product support after all these years. Sony did produce the BEST product of its kind--along with the excellent app for tablets that provides the real power of the device--and despite the horror of transfers, after it is all done, it is MORE than worth it,
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post #605 of 611 Old 09-01-2019, 10:37 PM
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I should add that if you want to access the HAP on your network, use Windows Explorer like you would access any other drive or folder on your PC or network to copy files TO, etc., then it is best to turn ON your HAP unit and wait at your PC for a minuete or so (if you think you are going to need more than 20 minutes, then set the HAP Standby to OFF otherwise it may turn-off during the Windows operatons), and the HAP should appear under the NETWORK directory. If after a few minutes, the HAP does not appear in the NETWORK directory, then launch the HAP desktop app. Then click "Show App in Explorer", and the HAP should appear in the NETWORK directory or even automatically OPEN the HAP folder in Windows Explorer with the HAP icon visible, but it might take a full minute for that to happen. If necessary, click the "Show App in Explorer" again, and theHAP folder should appear shortly. Are you getting the idea that things happen a bit lethargically with the HAP desktop app? No kidding. Now you can manipulate the folders and files on your HAP using Windows Explorer like you would any folder. I like to open BOTH the HAP folder--or subfolders, if necessary--and the SOURCE directory of my rips as two seperate windows and then perfrom and CUT and PASTE or and DELETES of files or folders from the HAP. Again, if you have found some errors in metadata (or even updated metadata, including better album cover art), then it is best to just DELETE the ENTIRE CD from the HAP, and then COPY that same entire CD with the corrections or updates to the HAP folder or sub-folders. TRUST ME, don't even think about depending upon Windows REPLACE, COPY etc. pop-up to guide you to keeping your files neat because it will NOT WORK they way you expect it as in other situations. Just delete the ENITIRE CD, and then COPY the same ENTIRE CD with the corrections/updates EVEN IF YOU ONLY WANT TO CHANGE JUST ONE FILE. Otherwise, you may get a MESS of files on the HAP.
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post #606 of 611 Old 09-02-2019, 08:11 AM
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Thank you. Lots of information I was unaware of. All my music was burned from CD’s into iTunes and then copied to the Z1. I really love the convenience and sound of this unit.


MP3Tag is great software for fixing metadata. You can quickly fix the Avalon incorrect data with MP3Tag. Just turn off Gracenote on the HAP, then fix the metadata with MP3Tag on a PC with the HAP drive window.


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post #607 of 611 Old 11-06-2019, 08:07 AM
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Rescanning did not fix the message popping up. I will reset and retransfer all 9709 songs to the HAP-Z1ES again. I have a hardwired network connection, so it is not too bad on time.


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The message is totally normal to my knowledge. It just tells you that the HAP is updating its own database (typically when you have loaded new content on to it). It spends time making that ultrafast database that is being shoot out to the app.

A thing of much greater concern to me, is the lack of updates to the HAP music transfer tool for Mac, and that some users have problems with their sense me channels (that is a totally awesome feature nobody else has!)

Will the HAP music transfer work on Mac OS Catalina? (10.15).
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post #608 of 611 Old 11-06-2019, 08:11 AM
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I should add that if you want to access the HAP on your network, use Windows Explorer like you would access any other drive or folder on your PC or network to copy files TO, etc., then it is best to turn ON your HAP unit and wait at your PC for a minuete or so (if you think you are going to need more than 20 minutes, then set the HAP Standby to OFF otherwise it may turn-off during the Windows operatons), and the HAP should appear under the NETWORK directory. If after a few minutes, the HAP does not appear in the NETWORK directory, then launch the HAP desktop app. Then click "Show App in Explorer", and the HAP should appear in the NETWORK directory or even automatically OPEN the HAP folder in Windows Explorer with the HAP icon visible, but it might take a full minute for that to happen. If necessary, click the "Show App in Explorer" again, and theHAP folder should appear shortly. Are you getting the idea that things happen a bit lethargically with the HAP desktop app? No kidding. Now you can manipulate the folders and files on your HAP using Windows Explorer like you would any folder. I like to open BOTH the HAP folder--or subfolders, if necessary--and the SOURCE directory of my rips as two seperate windows and then perfrom and CUT and PASTE or and DELETES of files or folders from the HAP. Again, if you have found some errors in metadata (or even updated metadata, including better album cover art), then it is best to just DELETE the ENTIRE CD from the HAP, and then COPY that same entire CD with the corrections or updates to the HAP folder or sub-folders. TRUST ME, don't even think about depending upon Windows REPLACE, COPY etc. pop-up to guide you to keeping your files neat because it will NOT WORK they way you expect it as in other situations. Just delete the ENITIRE CD, and then COPY the same ENTIRE CD with the corrections/updates EVEN IF YOU ONLY WANT TO CHANGE JUST ONE FILE. Otherwise, you may get a MESS of files on the HAP.
When you manipulate the files like this, dont you loose all the intelligence in the HAP indexing? Can you browse artists, tracks, albums and sense me channels? I tried transferring a album like this, but it did not show up in the database (only when browsing via the folder path option).
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post #609 of 611 Old 12-02-2019, 09:43 PM
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I'm new to the Sony hap z1es. I had bought the Sony amp TA A1ES a year ago
before I bought the hap I was using the beetle DAC. I would connect my iPhone to the DAC using a camera adaptor and 3.5mm to the amp using RCA
I love this amp along with my JBL 590 speakers. sounds amazing. last week I decided to buy the hap z1es. it arrived this Saturday and I'm not too happy with it. wish I had bought the Cambridge v2. why, well I don't have a big selection of music. for the last 7 years I have stream. right now I use Apple Music and I also use Qobuz which I really love. to make things even more difficult ever since my son sat on my Mac 3 years ago we have live with iPads (we have PCs but are for work). so today I was force to stop at best buy n buy a new MacBook just to add music. so I have notice that 95% of my music is part of the unlimited service which it won't play on the hap. only music that I have bought over 7 years ago on itunes I'm able to download.
I would love the hap z1es only if the thing allows me to stream or add Qobuz or even better airplay
If someone figures out how to connect a MacBook and play music from the MacBook please let me know cause I'm about to return it.
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post #610 of 611 Old 12-03-2019, 06:37 AM
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I'm new to the Sony hap z1es. I had bought the Sony amp TA A1ES a year ago

before I bought the hap I was using the beetle DAC. I would connect my iPhone to the DAC using a camera adaptor and 3.5mm to the amp using RCA

I love this amp along with my JBL 590 speakers. sounds amazing. last week I decided to buy the hap z1es. it arrived this Saturday and I'm not too happy with it. wish I had bought the Cambridge v2. why, well I don't have a big selection of music. for the last 7 years I have stream. right now I use Apple Music and I also use Qobuz which I really love. to make things even more difficult ever since my son sat on my Mac 3 years ago we have live with iPads (we have PCs but are for work). so today I was force to stop at best buy n buy a new MacBook just to add music. so I have notice that 95% of my music is part of the unlimited service which it won't play on the hap. only music that I have bought over 7 years ago on itunes I'm able to download.

I would love the hap z1es only if the thing allows me to stream or add Qobuz or even better airplay

If someone figures out how to connect a MacBook and play music from the MacBook please let me know cause I'm about to return it.


The HAP-Z1ES is not designed to use streaming services. It is designed to store your purchased digital music (I burn CDs to Flac for mine) and play it. It will not do what you want to do with it. It is very good if you have a lot of digital music.


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post #611 of 611 Old 12-03-2019, 03:19 PM
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The HAP-Z1ES is not designed to use streaming services. It is designed to store your purchased digital music (I burn CDs to Flac for mine) and play it. It will not do what you want to do with it. It is very good if you have a lot of digital music.


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thanks for the reply
I do have a book of CDs from when I was in the navy in the 90s. haven't play of them since hmmmmm 2003 when I drove to Miami lol
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