DSD vs PCM vs FLAC; great free same source files - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 22 Old 07-23-2015, 03:03 PM - Thread Starter
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DSD vs PCM vs FLAC; great free same source files

On the new iFI idac2 sampler there is a nice collection ranging from DSD and PCM to FLAC;

http://www.soundliaison.com/all-cate...-music-sampler

http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/idac...sound-liaison/



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This Music Sampler download contains 3 songs in 3 different formats, DSD (dsf), PCM and FLAC, so in total 9 audio files.
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post #2 of 22 Old 07-30-2015, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
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This is one of the few samplers I know of that has the same well documented source files, thus good for file comparison.
The 2L sampler is also worth mentioning and excellent recorded as well.

http://www.2l.no/old-2L/2L.htm
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post #3 of 22 Old 08-07-2015, 03:32 PM
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Very impressive recording quality from these labels.
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post #4 of 22 Old 08-20-2015, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mila View Post
Very impressive recording quality from these labels.
Yes.
Anybody know of more comparison files from other HI- Res labels?
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post #5 of 22 Old 09-18-2015, 07:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suite View Post
Yes.
Anybody know of more comparison files from other HI- Res labels?
and preferably same source.
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post #6 of 22 Old 09-19-2015, 04:56 AM
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Problem is, in most cases the DSD versions have not stayed DSD all the way to release. If there was any editing, mixing, or processing (mastering) done in post, it won't happen in DSD, it'll be bumped to PCM or DXD then back to DSD. Every conversion represents a signal alteration.

Such is not the case with PCM, which can be PCM the entire path. Could be one reason you don't find more comparison files.

Don't know why anyone would bother with DSD.

Here's the detailed version:

http://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/news...rom-a-d-to-d-a
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post #7 of 22 Old 09-19-2015, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaddie View Post
Problem is, in most cases the DSD versions have not stayed DSD all the way to release. If there was any editing, mixing, or processing (mastering) done in post, it won't happen in DSD, it'll be bumped to PCM or DXD then back to DSD. Every conversion represents a signal alteration.

Such is not the case with PCM, which can be PCM the entire path. Could be one reason you don't find more comparison files.

Don't know why anyone would bother with DSD.

Here's the detailed version:

http://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/news...rom-a-d-to-d-a
At least one of the S.L. files is recorded direct:
Quote:
So just to clarify; Our DSD masters are not original studio masters.
We record in PCM, so if you want a native one to one copy of the original studio master, without any kind of conversion, choose the PCM download.
With one exception, Impromtu (Tony Overwater & Bert van den Brink), was recorded direct to PCM and direct to DSD with two seperate recorders.
read in full here:http://www.soundliaison.com/
this album:
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post #8 of 22 Old 09-25-2015, 07:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mila View Post
At least one of the S.L. files is recorded direct: read in full here:http://www.soundliaison.com/
this album:
I believe Blue Coast only transfer DSD back to PCM at the editing points.
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post #9 of 22 Old 09-25-2015, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suite View Post
I believe Blue Coast only transfer DSD back to PCM at the editing points.
You can't transition between a DSD stream and a PCM on the fly only at the edit points, it's the whole file or nothing. There is no editing DSD, so if anything is done in post...anything from a hard cut to a crossfade (all edits are actually crossfades) or level adjustment...it has been bumped to PCM.
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post #10 of 22 Old 10-03-2015, 03:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaddie View Post
You can't transition between a DSD stream and a PCM on the fly only at the edit points, it's the whole file or nothing. There is no editing DSD, so if anything is done in post...anything from a hard cut to a crossfade (all edits are actually crossfades) or level adjustment...it has been bumped to PCM.
Ooh, that is not how Blue Coast tells it.
I have to look where I read that about the edit points, I will see if I can find it and then post the link.
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post #11 of 22 Old 10-08-2015, 12:54 PM - Thread Starter
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post #12 of 22 Old 10-08-2015, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaddie View Post
You can't transition between a DSD stream and a PCM on the fly only at the edit points, it's the whole file or nothing. There is no editing DSD, so if anything is done in post...anything from a hard cut to a crossfade (all edits are actually crossfades) or level adjustment...it has been bumped to PCM.
Here is a discussion about it;
Quote:
Correct...for that tenth of second of music data inserted in only!! It's inserted, it's not all or nothing! A 70 minute DSD album with maybe 2 seconds of DXD-converted to DSD.
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8...45/index4.html

Last edited by Suite; 10-08-2015 at 03:34 PM.
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post #13 of 22 Old 11-07-2015, 03:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Always wondered why DXD is called DXD and not PCM;
Quote:
Another format for DSD editing is Digital eXtreme Definition (DXD), a PCM format with 24-bit resolution sampled at 352.8 kHz (or alternatively 384 kHz). DXD was initially developed for the Merging Pyramix workstation and introduced together with their Sphynx 2, AD/DA converter in 2004. This combination meant that it was possible to record and edit directly in DXD,[23] and that the sample only converts to DSD once before publishing to SACD. This offers an advantage to the user as the noise created by converting DSD raises dramatically above 20 kHz, and more noise is added each time a signal is converted back to DSD during editing.
WIKI;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Stream_Digital
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post #14 of 22 Old 11-07-2015, 03:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Dxd

Always wondered why DXD is called DXD and not PCM;
Quote:
Another format for DSD editing is Digital eXtreme Definition (DXD), a PCM format with 24-bit resolution sampled at 352.8 kHz (or alternatively 384 kHz). DXD was initially developed for the Merging Pyramix workstation and introduced together with their Sphynx 2, AD/DA converter in 2004. This combination meant that it was possible to record and edit directly in DXD,[23] and that the sample only converts to DSD once before publishing to SACD. This offers an advantage to the user as the noise created by converting DSD raises dramatically above 20 kHz, and more noise is added each time a signal is converted back to DSD during editing.
WIKI;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Stream_Digital
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post #15 of 22 Old 12-21-2015, 04:12 PM
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Sound Liaison wintersale 50% off

Sound Liaison are selling everything for €10/$11 at the moment so you can actually buy both for the price of one.
Quote:
Dear music lovers and audio enthusiasts,
We at Sound Liaison are happy to announce:
that until the 4th of January 2016, all downloads will be sold for €10.- regardless of format.
That means 50% off on all DSD files and
33% off on all PCM and FLAC files. http://www.soundliaison.com/
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Originally Posted by Mila View Post
At least one of the S.L. files is recorded direct: read in full here:http://www.soundliaison.com/
this album:

Last edited by Mila; 12-21-2015 at 04:17 PM.
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post #16 of 22 Old 03-13-2016, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suite View Post
Ooh, that is not how Blue Coast tells it.
I have to look where I read that about the edit points, I will see if I can find it and then post the link.
But you are right they do use the word conversion, but only ''once''
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post #17 of 22 Old 03-13-2016, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suite View Post
I believe Blue Coast only transfer DSD back to PCM at the editing points.
http://www.soundliaison.com/

Wow wow wow !!!!!

That's great !

Last edited by Scotth3886; 03-20-2016 at 07:12 AM.
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post #18 of 22 Old 03-20-2016, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suite View Post
Always wondered why DXD is called DXD and not PCM;

This offers an advantage to the user as the noise created by converting DSD raises dramatically above 20 kHz, and more noise is added each time a signal is converted back to DSD during editing.
That last sentence should be enough to question the wisdom of using DSD for anything.

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post #19 of 22 Old 03-27-2016, 03:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by thehun View Post
That last sentence should be enough to question the wisdom of using DSD for anything.
But maybe it is just as with LP's, it is the filtering that people find sounding attractive, DSD fans often use the term warmer, low pass filter at 20.000 khz?
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post #20 of 22 Old 03-27-2016, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suite View Post
But maybe it is just as with LP's, it is the filtering that people find sounding attractive, DSD fans often use the term warmer, low pass filter at 20.000 khz?
I was referring to from a technical POV. People will like whatever they like for any number of reasons, often without merit, or logical explanation. Audio is full with those phenomenons.

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post #21 of 22 Old 05-05-2016, 04:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by thehun View Post
I was referring to from a technical POV. People will like whatever they like for any number of reasons, often without merit, or logical explanation. Audio is full with those phenomenons.
That is true. Hearing is subjective.
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post #22 of 22 Old 07-16-2017, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun View Post
I was referring to from a technical POV. People will like whatever they like for any number of reasons, often without merit, or logical explanation. Audio is full with those phenomenons.
Very true indeed.
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