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post #121 of 252 Old 11-09-2015, 04:36 PM
 
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Well, finally a definition of audio night and day. LOL!
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post #122 of 252 Old 11-09-2015, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by LFEer View Post
I've heard that famous line over the years while going to audio meets where double blind test is a routine thing. They say that line coming in, then don't say it going out.
Let's assume for a second that you're both right. How could that be?

A person listening to a certain system, configured a certain way, in the same room, and with the same source material for an extended period of time is going to get used to the way that system sounds. Changing out one piece of equipment and not changing anything else can, therefore, produce a "night and day" difference if it sounds different than what the person was previously used to.

Let's compare to a double blind test. Have these people (yourself included) spent hours or days (or even years) on any of these systems in that room (system A) before comparing to another configuration (B)? Doubtful. You can't just plop your own system or anyone else's in a random room and expect it to sound the same. There will almost certainly be slight differences at least. Do you use the exact same source material you listen to regularly? Maybe, maybe not. Are the rooms different in which you listen to these different systems? Probably. A person with no experience previously listening to either a system, the same system in a different room than usual, or especially different source material may not find a "night and day" difference. There are too many new variables for their ears to process, especially when comparing subtleties.

What I'm getting at is that there are variables your precious "double blind tests" probably don't account for, no matter how well setup they are. You can't perform a "double blind" experiment with a person listening to the same system in the same room for hours or days on end before switching to the B system; the time just isn't available. I also venture a guess that the source material is often different. Therefore, the more subtle differences may not be noticeable.

That's just my theories I'm throwing out there as food for thought. I may be wrong, but if I was participating in such a test, these are the things I would be considering.

If he hears a difference with his ears, who are you to say that that difference doesn't exist just because the differences are often not heard in your tests? One of you may be living in blissful ignorance. If you're both happy, why should it matter?

7.1 Setup: Yamaha RX-V671, Boston Acoustics VR40 (Mains), VR12 (Center), CR8 (Surrounds), CR8 (Rear Surrounds), Mirage Omni S10
Second 7.1 Setup: Yamaha RX-V663/Kenwood KR-5030 (Stereo), Boston Acoustics VR20 (Mains), VR10 (Center), CR6 (Surrounds), CRC (Rear Surrounds), Klipsch Sub12HG
2.1 Setup: Nakamichi RE-2, Boston Acoustics VR40 and Mirage Omni S10 (shared with 7.1), Emotiva XDA-1, and Pioneer, Kenwood, dbx, Luxman, Burwen, and JVC vintage equipment
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post #123 of 252 Old 11-09-2015, 07:45 PM
 
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but if I was participating in such a test, these are the things I would be considering.
We considered those and that's why there is always pretest auditioning session. If there is a difference heard (almost always happens) then we go on to double blind route.
You should try it if you have not.
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post #124 of 252 Old 11-09-2015, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by LFEer View Post
We considered those and that's why there is always pretest auditioning session. If there is a difference heard (almost always happens) then we go on to double blind route.
You should try it if you have not.
I'm glad you're considering those. Elimination of confounds is always a good idea.

7.1 Setup: Yamaha RX-V671, Boston Acoustics VR40 (Mains), VR12 (Center), CR8 (Surrounds), CR8 (Rear Surrounds), Mirage Omni S10
Second 7.1 Setup: Yamaha RX-V663/Kenwood KR-5030 (Stereo), Boston Acoustics VR20 (Mains), VR10 (Center), CR6 (Surrounds), CRC (Rear Surrounds), Klipsch Sub12HG
2.1 Setup: Nakamichi RE-2, Boston Acoustics VR40 and Mirage Omni S10 (shared with 7.1), Emotiva XDA-1, and Pioneer, Kenwood, dbx, Luxman, Burwen, and JVC vintage equipment
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post #125 of 252 Old 11-10-2015, 08:28 AM
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Listening to and enjoying music on a good stereo setup can get a little expensive sometimes. Whereas reading generalized statements such as ones having been made in the OP regarding which audio products are overpriced always is priceless.
http://www.audiostream.com/content/b...YjmMYlwXl6B.97
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post #126 of 252 Old 11-10-2015, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by LFEer View Post
I've heard that famous line over the years while going to audio meets where double blind test is a routine thing. They say that line coming in, then don't say it going out.
Well, I don't know, you guys tell me. How can I get close to a live experience in a concert hall with budget equipment? Because in my experience it takes a bit of money and room design to get there.
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post #127 of 252 Old 11-10-2015, 09:08 AM
 
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Originally Posted by trem0lo View Post
Well, I don't know, you guys tell me. How can I get close to a live experience in a concert hall with budget equipment? Because in my experience it takes a bit of money and room design to get there.
See the last paragraph of the first post. If you are inclined to, try DIY speakers. Now there is a high rate of price vs. performance.
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post #128 of 252 Old 11-10-2015, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by LFEer View Post
I've heard that famous line over the years while going to audio meets where double blind test is a routine thing. They say that line coming in, then don't say it going out.
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Originally Posted by LFEer View Post
See the last paragraph of the first post. If you are inclined to, try DIY speakers. Now there is a high rate of price vs. performance.
I think that explains a few things...

Alice: Hey, I built my own speakers for $100!
Bob: Wow, they sound really great!
Alice: I know, I let my friend listen to them and he wants to buy a pair for $500.
Bob: We should start our own company. (Looks in music dictionary, points to first page.) Crescendo! Crescendo Audio.
Alice: Make sure to send a pair to the guys at 6moons and tell them they retail for $20,000.

In all seriousness, I think there is a middle ground. I'm willing to pay for good audio engineering and construction as I simply don't have to time to do it myself. And hunting Craigslist for vintage stuff is time consuming. Great for retirees, but not someone who works a 9-5 job.

To say "everything is more or less the same" is misleading. A class A or tube amp does sound different than a middle-of-the-road Yamaha, Denon or Pioneer. It also depends on your expectations... are you listening to Beethoven or Michael Bay?
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post #129 of 252 Old 11-10-2015, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by trem0lo View Post
Well, I don't know, you guys tell me. How can I get close to a live experience in a concert hall with budget equipment?
Just hop on the bus or grab a taxi.
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post #130 of 252 Old 11-10-2015, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by trem0lo View Post
Well, I don't know, you guys tell me. How can I get close to a live experience in a concert hall with budget equipment? Because in my experience it takes a bit of money and room design to get there.
It's going to be difficult with ANY equipment, IMO. I was at a concert a few weeks ago (Edmonton Symphony Orchestra - Vaughan Williams 5th Symphony). I could hear individual notes from a single violin. (Next time I'll sit further back). I'm not sure one could listen to a recording and say "That note is being played by the lady sitting behind the first violin."

Of course, I could be wrong. Could be someone who has attended hundreds of concerts and knows the music inside out could place all of the instruments.
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Spoiler!
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post #131 of 252 Old 11-10-2015, 11:59 PM
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Purely philosophical point follows.

My opinion is that many people have wasted a large amount of their lives stressing over something in their minds that is actually a very petty thing.

By all means have a sound system that sounds nice, but don't waste your life fretting over it. Imagine what constructive, non-narcissistic tasks you could have completed if not sat in front of two speakers or researching related topics. That's not to say you may have met some great people/groups whilst delving into the hobby. Maybe a bit of self discovery along the way.

It's like its a condition or something! Could be the same for paper clip collectors or fans of the colour Orange.
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post #132 of 252 Old 11-11-2015, 12:43 AM
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I went to RMAF this year and it was my first ever speaker show. Sadly it will probably be my last because of what I saw. The first thing that came into my head when walking around and seeing the price tags of 90% of the stuff was who the hell buys all this ****? Also I know old guys are way into their jazz and blues but can manufacturers at least try to play music that a regular person listens to? Just by walking around the canjam and speaker sections and looking at the demographics you could see that the speaker folk are way out of touch. Who's going to buy all those super expensive speakers and amps when the jazz and blues loving old dudes die out?

I was only impressed with one super expensive room and that was the one with the Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD. The best rooms to me were all the ones with the cheaper stuff like JTR, Linkwitz, Elac, and Spatial. I actually ordered a pair of the Spatial Hologram M4 at the show.

The one room that baffled my buddy and I was the Nola KO2 room. We both thought they were one of the worst speakers we have ever heard with such screeching highs that made my head hurt. Then we saw that they won a RMAF award and then we were really confused.
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post #133 of 252 Old 11-11-2015, 04:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Jimbo II View Post
Purely philosophical point follows.

My opinion is that many people have wasted a large amount of their lives stressing over something in their minds that is actually a very petty thing.

By all means have a sound system that sounds nice, but don't waste your life fretting over it. Imagine what constructive, non-narcissistic tasks you could have completed if not sat in front of two speakers or researching related topics. That's not to say you may have met some great people/groups whilst delving into the hobby. Maybe a bit of self discovery along the way.

It's like its a condition or something! Could be the same for paper clip collectors or fans of the colour Orange.
purely philosophical response:

to me, this is a passion and a hobby: I have some disposable income and choose to spend some of it on high end audio and video

it is not just wasting your life fretting over it:

Google, for example; hobbies as a therapy.

Thanks

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post #134 of 252 Old 11-11-2015, 04:45 AM
 
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Originally Posted by trem0lo View Post
Well, I don't know, you guys tell me. How can I get close to a live experience in a concert hall with budget equipment? Because in my experience it takes a bit of money and room design to get there.
Here is a budget setup that will get you close to what the engineer heard when he mastered the recording:

A pair of these: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LSR308
One of these: https://emotiva.com/products/dacs/el...s/stealth-dc-1
Connect it with these:http://www.mogamicable.com/
You may find you want to add a sub: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LSR310S
A computer and most important:

http://www.concertvault.com/

Use it as a nearfield setup and you will be pretty damn close to what the engineer heard when he mastered it.
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post #135 of 252 Old 11-11-2015, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by witchdoctor View Post
Here is a budget setup that will get you close to what the engineer heard when he mastered the recording:

A pair of these: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LSR308
One of these: https://emotiva.com/products/dacs/el...s/stealth-dc-1
Connect it with these:http://www.mogamicable.com/
You may find you want to add a sub: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LSR310S
A computer and most important:

http://www.concertvault.com/

Use it as a nearfield setup and you will be pretty damn close to what the engineer heard when he mastered it.
You bring up a damn good point: we may be able to hear what the engineers hear for not a whole lot of money and at a good value. However, what about hearing what the instruments actually sound like in real life, as mentioned before? What about concert-like sound, especially at larger distances? What about Super Audio CDs and Concert DVDs/Blu-Rays? Can't get that with that system...

Also $400 for a 200W 10" Sub...that's not what I would personally call "good value".

Good call on the Stealth DAC by the way.

However, this system would cost about $1350 (Depending on your cable choice). I certainly didn't spend that much on the core of my stereo system...

7.1 Setup: Yamaha RX-V671, Boston Acoustics VR40 (Mains), VR12 (Center), CR8 (Surrounds), CR8 (Rear Surrounds), Mirage Omni S10
Second 7.1 Setup: Yamaha RX-V663/Kenwood KR-5030 (Stereo), Boston Acoustics VR20 (Mains), VR10 (Center), CR6 (Surrounds), CRC (Rear Surrounds), Klipsch Sub12HG
2.1 Setup: Nakamichi RE-2, Boston Acoustics VR40 and Mirage Omni S10 (shared with 7.1), Emotiva XDA-1, and Pioneer, Kenwood, dbx, Luxman, Burwen, and JVC vintage equipment

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post #136 of 252 Old 11-11-2015, 09:21 AM
 
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You bring up a damn good point: we may be able to hear what the engineers hear for not a whole lot of money and at a good value. However, what about hearing what the instruments actually sound like in real life, as mentioned before? What about concert-like sound, especially at larger distances? What about Super Audio CDs and Concert DVDs/Blu-Rays? Can't get that with that system...

Also $400 for a 200W 10" Sub...that's not what I would personally call "good value".

Good call on the Stealth DAC by the way.

However, this system would cost about $1350 (Depending on your cable choice). I certainly didn't spend that much on the core of my stereo system...
I don't know that you would need a sub, those LSR 308's extend down below 40 HZ:

http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/r...s/lsr308#Specs

and some people prefer the LSR 305's which extend down to 43 HZ
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LSR305

A pair of 305's plus the DAC would be like $700 and then maybe another $40 for the Mogami cables and $30 for a concertvault subscription.
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post #137 of 252 Old 11-11-2015, 10:30 AM
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I don't know that you would need a sub, those LSR 308's extend down below 40 HZ:

http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/r...s/lsr308#Specs

and some people prefer the LSR 305's which extend down to 43 HZ
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LSR305

A pair of 305's plus the DAC would be like $700 and then maybe another $40 for the Mogami cables and $30 for a concertvault subscription.
Again, good points. I would personally use a sub with them because I like that extra oomph in the low range; just not that sub at its current price. I estimated $50 for cables originally, so I was close. To each their own definitely.

7.1 Setup: Yamaha RX-V671, Boston Acoustics VR40 (Mains), VR12 (Center), CR8 (Surrounds), CR8 (Rear Surrounds), Mirage Omni S10
Second 7.1 Setup: Yamaha RX-V663/Kenwood KR-5030 (Stereo), Boston Acoustics VR20 (Mains), VR10 (Center), CR6 (Surrounds), CRC (Rear Surrounds), Klipsch Sub12HG
2.1 Setup: Nakamichi RE-2, Boston Acoustics VR40 and Mirage Omni S10 (shared with 7.1), Emotiva XDA-1, and Pioneer, Kenwood, dbx, Luxman, Burwen, and JVC vintage equipment
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post #138 of 252 Old 11-11-2015, 01:06 PM
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......Who's going to buy all those super expensive speakers and amps when the jazz and blues loving old dudes die out?

... The best rooms to me were all the ones with the cheaper stuff like JTR, Linkwitz, Elac, and Spatial...
Well I don't think the jazz and blues guys will die out per se - they will be replaced by the next gen (just like pre-teens drink fizzy grape soda, sooner or later they move to Martini's). I also think there is a lot of great (non fizzy) music being made right now. Check out Radio Paradise (or similar) sometime. (like Mojitos vs. Martinis, I guess)

But, I agree. A very senior guy (the 'Audio Critic', now 90 years old) is also a very big fan of Linkwitz speaker designs for their understanding of speaker physics and emphasis on accurate reproduction. He believed (circa 2002) that the absolute state of the art in a speaker could be had for $15,000/pr retail, everything beyond that was marketing BS. In fact he put Wilson of Wilson Audio on his ten worst list for wildly overpriced speakers (though he did think Wilson was a superb speaker designer).
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post #139 of 252 Old 11-11-2015, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by VectorLabs View Post
I went to RMAF this year and it was my first ever speaker show. Sadly it will probably be my last because of what I saw. The first thing that came into my head when walking around and seeing the price tags of 90% of the stuff was who the hell buys all this ****? Also I know old guys are way into their jazz and blues but can manufacturers at least try to play music that a regular person listens to? Just by walking around the canjam and speaker sections and looking at the demographics you could see that the speaker folk are way out of touch. Who's going to buy all those super expensive speakers and amps when the jazz and blues loving old dudes die out?

I was only impressed with one super expensive room and that was the one with the Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD. The best rooms to me were all the ones with the cheaper stuff like JTR, Linkwitz, Elac, and Spatial. I actually ordered a pair of the Spatial Hologram M4 at the show.

The one room that baffled my buddy and I was the Nola KO2 room. We both thought they were one of the worst speakers we have ever heard with such screeching highs that made my head hurt. Then we saw that they won a RMAF award and then we were really confused.
Another reason to use jazz is because it is mastered better than popular music. Popular music mastering often has many issues, chief among them is dynamic range compression. Using something that is mastered well or "properly" eliminates that variable from the equation when listening to speakers. That being said, there are plenty of well-mastered rock albums out there. Even using something like "Aja" by Steely Dan would appeal to more people than regular jazz.

In addition, those who can afford mega-dollar speaker systems are often older, just simply due to the fact that they have the time and money to invest in them. I don't know what the average age would be, but I would imagine it is at least 45-50, which helps explain the jazz (not totally though).

I agree with you, however I'm just adding some variables to help explain it.

I'm a "youngster" that loves jazz, by the way. In fact, I am not the only person in my social circle that loves jazz surprisingly enough. Mainly this is inspired by my grandfather, but also due to the fact that I find it soothing. Sometimes I need to lay off the "fizz" (often metal in my case) for a while and jazz is the best way for me to do that. I sometimes break out some classical, but I much prefer jazz. You should try it sometime.

7.1 Setup: Yamaha RX-V671, Boston Acoustics VR40 (Mains), VR12 (Center), CR8 (Surrounds), CR8 (Rear Surrounds), Mirage Omni S10
Second 7.1 Setup: Yamaha RX-V663/Kenwood KR-5030 (Stereo), Boston Acoustics VR20 (Mains), VR10 (Center), CR6 (Surrounds), CRC (Rear Surrounds), Klipsch Sub12HG
2.1 Setup: Nakamichi RE-2, Boston Acoustics VR40 and Mirage Omni S10 (shared with 7.1), Emotiva XDA-1, and Pioneer, Kenwood, dbx, Luxman, Burwen, and JVC vintage equipment
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post #140 of 252 Old 11-11-2015, 02:11 PM
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Another reason to use jazz is because it is mastered better than popular music. Popular music mastering often has many issues, chief among them is dynamic range compression. Using something that is mastered well or "properly" eliminates that variable from the equation when listening to speakers. That being said, there are plenty of well-mastered rock albums out there. Even using something like "Aja" by Steely Dan would appeal to more people than regular jazz.

In addition, those who can afford mega-dollar speaker systems are often older, just simply due to the fact that they have the time and money to invest in them. I don't know what the average age would be, but I would imagine it is at least 45-50, which helps explain the jazz (not totally though).

I agree with you, however I'm just adding some variables to help explain it.

I'm a "youngster" that loves jazz, by the way. In fact, I am not the only person in my social circle that loves jazz surprisingly enough. Mainly this is inspired by my grandfather, but also due to the fact that I find it soothing. Sometimes I need to lay off the "fizz" (often metal in my case) for a while and jazz is the best way for me to do that. I sometimes break out some classical, but I much prefer jazz. You should try it sometime.
I hear you on that as my go to relax music is classical. My wife plays the piano so we enjoy blasting some piano pieces every now and then. What's sad is the majority of the rooms had digital sources and if you asked to play something other than jazz or classical they would look at you with weird disdain.
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post #141 of 252 Old 11-11-2015, 10:55 PM
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So the system-on-a-budget thread that's near the top of this forum got me thinking -- well actually I've been thinking about such a topic for years myself, but nonetheless it inspired me to create this post.

Over the years, since I got into audio when I was 18 -- and I'm 31 now -- I've noticed a certain type of "need" by audio enthusiasts (not a fan of the "other" term) to spend money (and thereby feeding the Machine) in order to create the most hi-fi system that could possibly afford. On the surface, it seems like a noble cause. I mean, if you can afford it, why not purchase gear that would lead to a better sound. But it's obviously not that simple. Let's face it, most of the "audiophile" (and there it is, dammit I couldn't help it) industry is built upon snake oil, misinformation, biased ears, and gullible folks. This post is not get into the specifics -- it appears the majority of people on this forum already have both feet squarely set on either side of the fence. This post is more or less about the psychology of such a "need" and why it exists.

It's kind of sobering in a way to think that people with such a disposable income are basically brainwashed by the Machine to believe adding a $2,000 amp will make their sound better than a $350 HTR. Or even worse, external DACs. It all just seems malicious to me, on the part of the Machine. As much as I love audio, I equally hate how the Machine ups the ante on everyone that "buys into" their plan. So much gear is ridiculously overpriced, yet folks believe it is a "very fair" price, or a good value. I mean, you can take a 2 week trip to Europe and spend real money over there for the price of a "decent" set of speakers.

So to all the newcomers, newbies, and folks that are wondering if you have to spend a fortune to get good sound: you don't. You can actually build a hell of a system for under a grand if you can dig on Craigslist for the speakers. Everything else is more or less the same, provided you're buying name-brand stuff (Yamaha, Onkyo, Pioneer, Denon, Marantz, etc.).
i entirely and totally agree.

there has never ever been a better time to get amazing audio at fantastic prices.

i downsized my equipment from a borderline esoteric rig to a reasonable one - my main system prolly represents a $13k investment. to some it may seem irrational, to me it's my music shrine and worth every penny. that said, i am not an audio snob at all. i enjoy my setup at work immensely: my computer, an Arcam rDAC, and Shure 1540 cans... total is under $800, audio quality is absolutely stellar. in my weekend cabin, i have a ~$200 amp (Qinpu) driving used Totem Dreamcatcher speakers ($300), and boy do i enjoy it. i can lay in a hammock and listen to Spotify on my iPad and good cans for hours, and go "who needs anything better?".

i just set up a system at my girlfriend's, where i spend more and more time, and it is simply a NAD D7050 feeding into another pair of Totem Dreamcatchers, and what can i say, it sounds superb. it's less than 10% of my system's cost... certainly radically diminishing results, i admit it. but i happen to also enjoy those in the right place. :-)

that said, i also know my main system sounds "better" in several ways compared to the other speaker systems i talk about - and 90% of the difference is in the speakers. does my main system sound 10x better than the one i installed at my girlfriend's? certainly not by any measurable parameter, we're probably talking decimals when it comes to measurements. but i hear the additional extensions, stage and accuracy of my main rig (~5% tops), but that instills a psychoacoustic satisfaction factor higher than 20%. :-)

i should also say every time i have spent thousands of dollars on audio i have kept stuff for many years. my previous main rig lasted 16 years without any updates (just the peripheral addition of streaming computer audio), and i predict i will keep my current core system just as long, quite possibly for the rest of my life. i fiddle with speaker placement from time to time, i may rotate in other speakers and old equipment for fun, because i have it and audio is a miserable investment... so some of my previous gear is stored (why bother sell it at an insultingly low fraction of its original price) and gets re-used from time to time, that satisfies my urge for change. :-)
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post #142 of 252 Old 11-11-2015, 11:28 PM
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So the system-on-a-budget thread that's near the top of this forum got me thinking -- well actually I've been thinking about such a topic for years myself, but nonetheless it inspired me to create this post.

Over the years, since I got into audio when I was 18 -- and I'm 31 now -- I've noticed a certain type of "need" by audio enthusiasts (not a fan of the "other" term) to spend money (and thereby feeding the Machine) in order to create the most hi-fi system that could possibly afford. On the surface, it seems like a noble cause. I mean, if you can afford it, why not purchase gear that would lead to a better sound. But it's obviously not that simple. Let's face it, most of the "audiophile" (and there it is, dammit I couldn't help it) industry is built upon snake oil, misinformation, biased ears, and gullible folks. This post is not get into the specifics -- it appears the majority of people on this forum already have both feet squarely set on either side of the fence. This post is more or less about the psychology of such a "need" and why it exists.

It's kind of sobering in a way to think that people with such a disposable income are basically brainwashed by the Machine to believe adding a $2,000 amp will make their sound better than a $350 HTR. Or even worse, external DACs. It all just seems malicious to me, on the part of the Machine. As much as I love audio, I equally hate how the Machine ups the ante on everyone that "buys into" their plan. So much gear is ridiculously overpriced, yet folks believe it is a "very fair" price, or a good value. I mean, you can take a 2 week trip to Europe and spend real money over there for the price of a "decent" set of speakers.

So to all the newcomers, newbies, and folks that are wondering if you have to spend a fortune to get good sound: you don't. You can actually build a hell of a system for under a grand if you can dig on Craigslist for the speakers. Everything else is more or less the same, provided you're buying name-brand stuff (Yamaha, Onkyo, Pioneer, Denon, Marantz, etc.).
Yup, and a "hell of a system" to you might be boring and mediocre to another audiophile. Yes you are an audiophile or you wouldn't be posting in an audiophile forum. AVS is the only forum that has members that think audiophile is a shameful word and they are "above" it or something. Quite entertaining.
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post #143 of 252 Old 11-11-2015, 11:45 PM
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As I see it, being an audiophile is a hobby. As with all hobbies, people want to do the most for THEIR enjoyment. If it means spending $10k on speakers...have fun. Myself, I need decent playback, on decent equipment that produces decent sound so I can enjoy my CD collection I have been working on since 1983. I am in it to collect CD's from artist I enjoy listening to. I do not need to have the best gear but some folks do. That is what is fun for them in the hobby. I will not fault them. My only issue comes from audiophiles who have an elitist and snobbish attitude because you haven't spent the cost of a new car on speakers. I am currently researching and pricing out what my new 2-channel system will be but it will stay in the $800-$1000 range. This will include a receiver, cd player, speakers and cabeling and about 50% of this budget will be going towards the speakers. To me this will be sufficient for my needs and I have lots of options to consider at this price point. Research is the key though. When you are working with a budget like I have, you want every dollar to count and to get the best YOUR money can buy at that price range.
A truth that goes back to mono hi-fi and something real audiophiles have known for years And don't forget to budget for music to play on the system.
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post #144 of 252 Old 11-11-2015, 11:59 PM
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I hear you on that as my go to relax music is classical. My wife plays the piano so we enjoy blasting some piano pieces every now and then. What's sad is the majority of the rooms had digital sources and if you asked to play something other than jazz or classical they would look at you with weird disdain.
I remember a variation on that at an audio show where it seemed the only thing played was audiophile jazz ( not to be confused with jazz that some audiophiles want to hear). I asked one exhibitor how come they weren't playing some classical and they said they love to but most of the show attendees were into jazz.

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post #145 of 252 Old 11-12-2015, 11:08 AM
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I always bring to an audio show one of the reference CDs that I always utilize to evaluate components. After a brief discussion with a company rep, he or she is usually happy to play a few cuts for me. It's the only way I can really get a handle on a few show systems' sonics.

Music room: Cary SLI-80 tube integrated amplifier, McIntosh MA6500 integrated amplifier, Quad 99 preamp, Quad 909 power amp, Acoustic Research AR9 loudspeakers, Yamaha CD-N500 CD player, Teac UD-503 DSD DAC, Phase Linear 8000II linear-tracking turntable.
Theater room: Panasonic 65S60 plasma television; Yamaha RX-A2020 (preamp section); Adcom GFA-5503 and GFA-5400 amplifiers; Polk LSi25, LSiC, and LSiF/X loudspeaker system; Velodyne FSR-18 servo-subwoofer.
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post #146 of 252 Old 11-13-2015, 06:47 AM
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I went to RMAF this year and it was my first ever speaker show. Sadly it will probably be my last because of what I saw. The first thing that came into my head when walking around and seeing the price tags of 90% of the stuff was who the hell buys all this ****? Also I know old guys are way into their jazz and blues but can manufacturers at least try to play music that a regular person listens to? Just by walking around the canjam and speaker sections and looking at the demographics you could see that the speaker folk are way out of touch. Who's going to buy all those super expensive speakers and amps when the jazz and blues loving old dudes die out?

I was only impressed with one super expensive room and that was the one with the Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD. The best rooms to me were all the ones with the cheaper stuff like JTR, Linkwitz, Elac, and Spatial. I actually ordered a pair of the Spatial Hologram M4 at the show.

The one room that baffled my buddy and I was the Nola KO2 room. We both thought they were one of the worst speakers we have ever heard with such screeching highs that made my head hurt. Then we saw that they won a RMAF award and then we were really confused.
I heard Spatial Audio's M3 at the Show in Newport this past year and liked them quite a bit. Glad to read of your purchase. Perhaps a little review and some pics once you get them installed at home.
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post #147 of 252 Old 11-13-2015, 08:49 AM
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I actually ordered a pair of the Spatial Hologram M4 at the show.
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I heard Spatial Audio's M3 at the Show in Newport this past year and liked them quite a bit. Glad to read of your purchase. Perhaps a little review and some pics once you get them installed at home.
Anyone know make and model of the CD and/or coax Clayton is using in the M3/M4?
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post #148 of 252 Old 11-13-2015, 10:31 AM
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Yeah, I saw that you bought the M4's. I am impressed with his design philosophy, his prices and what I heard at the Show.
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post #149 of 252 Old 11-13-2015, 10:40 AM
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Anyone know make and model of the CD and/or coax Clayton is using in the M3/M4?
The woofers are custom eminence and the CD is a custom B&C. 800hz crossover point. The upgraded version of the M3 and M4 now have a titanium nitride diaphragm CD.

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post #150 of 252 Old 11-13-2015, 10:52 AM
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The woofers are custom eminence and the CD is a custom B&C. 800hz crossover point. The upgraded version of the M3 and M4 now have a titanium nitride diaphragm CD.
Thanks!
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