The "need" to spend lots of money - Page 7 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #181 of 252 Old 01-07-2016, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by buzzy_ View Post
But knowing the specs and the price tag solves so many problems!

It's soooo hard to know what sounds better, and to arrange the room layout and finishes to optimize sound. And then actually focus your attention on the music.

It's so much easier just to spend a lot of money on something that looks impressive, and that you know costs more than the other guys' system.

;-)
It's even better to turn up a bargain, and know that you have equipment that the other guy paid ten times as much for.

Spoiler!
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post #182 of 252 Old 01-07-2016, 05:34 PM
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It was interesting to compare today the audio from two recent model Blu-ray players, Samsung's H5900 and Sony's S6500. Using identical 7-ft Bluejeans HDMI cables connected to my Yamaha Aventage 2020 AVR (playing a CD of Linda Ronstadt's What's New), the two units sounded the same in the bass and lower midrange. The upper mids and treble were significantly more prominent (but not bright) with the Samsung. The Sony's treble, as discussed a few weeks ago, placed the cymbals off the stage and into the venue's rear parking lot. The Samsung was also smoother than the Sony. Overall, the Samsung is quite good as a CD player and much better than the Sony for music playback.

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post #183 of 252 Old 01-07-2016, 05:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Alex F. View Post
It was interesting to compare today the audio from two recent model Blu-ray players, Samsung's H5900 and Sony's S6500. Using identical 7-ft Bluejeans HDMI cables connected to my Yamaha Aventage 2020 AVR (playing a CD of Linda Ronstadt's What's New), the two units sounded the same in the bass and lower midrange. The upper mids and treble were significantly more prominent (but not bright) with the Samsung. The Sony's treble, as discussed a few weeks ago, placed the cymbals off the stage and into the venue's rear parking lot. The Samsung was also smoother than the Sony. Overall, the Samsung is quite good as a CD player and much better than the Sony for music playback.
So this wasn't a direct comparison or do you own two copies of the cd? Out in the parking lot, eh? ....sounds about where such a "review" comes from....
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post #184 of 252 Old 01-07-2016, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Alex F. View Post
It was interesting to compare today the audio from two recent model Blu-ray players, Samsung's H5900 and Sony's S6500. Using identical 7-ft Bluejeans HDMI cables connected to my Yamaha Aventage 2020 AVR (playing a CD of Linda Ronstadt's What's New), the two units sounded the same in the bass and lower midrange. The upper mids and treble were significantly more prominent (but not bright) with the Samsung. The Sony's treble, as discussed a few weeks ago, placed the cymbals off the stage and into the venue's rear parking lot. The Samsung was also smoother than the Sony. Overall, the Samsung is quite good as a CD player and much better than the Sony for music playback.
BRPs that use external decoding are nothing more than disc spinners which send the data to the AVR for decoding. How pray tell, is one modifying the sound of one part of the audio spectrum as it's the same data?
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post #185 of 252 Old 01-07-2016, 07:28 PM
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these threads always devolve into the "good enough is cheap and hence it should be mandatory by government decree". which is total hogwash for every human need, and everybody knows it.

yes, i shall bring cars back into this. there is no rational reason why -especially in pothole-ridden, 65mph-restricted California- a BMW or a Lambo or a Bugatti are in *any* way a better buying choice than a Prius. in fact., there are many reasons why they're a borderline idiotic choice (note: i so don't own a Prius, and for as long as i can i shall drive a stick-shift when i don't ride a motrocycle, even paddleshifts are highly fun inhibiting to me). if you carve canyons every day and like your license suspended regularly and enjoy spending thousands getting your front spoiler fixed, by any means go for it because of the "additional performance" that is utterly unusable or immaterial in the real world. it also amazes me some people perceive an Apple watch as expensive when it's easy to drop over half a mill on a Blancpain, Audemars Piguet and many others.

we are never ever driven by entirely rational needs when we purchase items. Adam Smith, the philosophical father of market economy, long ago established that pricing and desirability is established not by manufacturing cost, but rather by "perceived value". it's the lifeblood of market economy.

hence, intellectually we enter audiophile communism in these threads. the audiophile marxists raise their left fists and declare equality of equipment being the only truth. forgive me while i yawn. i'd rather stay human and have some sort of passion flowing through my veins when it comes to my life's interests, be it professional or personal. i never prescribe others what to do, and think it utterly silly when others do: it's called fanaticism and it's waaaay more irrational to care about something you have absolutely no means to control in others, than to plough down your damn own money on whatever floats your boat - and no one else should care a fart about.

that said - do i think you can achieve awesome audio these days with very reasonable budgets? hell yes, absolutely. does that mean it is wrong to have very personal reasons to spend whatever you want on whatever you damn chose? heck no. let people make their choices and shut the hell up, it's a lost battle to begin with to lecture other people. spend your time and energy on something more personally rewarding.

for example: i am a lifelong, passionate sport-bike motorcycle rider. when people not versed in my particular inclination when it comes to motorcycles ask me if I own a Harley, i don't throw up and answer they are under-powered, over-priced pieces of crap that can't even turn properly. i actually appreciate any sort of passion for motorcycles, even though cruisers are not and will never be my personal choice given my very own, peculiar preferences. yes, my motorcycle will leave any Harley in the dust. but maybe while i'd be bitterly trying to prove my point, the guy on the Harley left behind would be leisurely enjoying his ride and smiling at the world and enjoying the beautiful landscape, loving his choice. good for him! audio is NO different. there is no reason why it should.

it's everybody's choice to have an attitude when it comes to a hobby they share with others. let's face it: caring about audio makes us utter propeller heads, each and every one posting in this thread. we share a passion. it's a personal choice whether we approach that as a shared, common passion that joins us, or whether we'll nitpick each other to death about personal choices and opinions that about 99.9% of the world population doesn't give a $#@! about.

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post #186 of 252 Old 01-07-2016, 09:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pablolie View Post
there is no rational reason why -especially in pothole-ridden, 65mph-restricted California- a BMW or a Lambo or a Bugatti are in *any* way a better buying choice than a Prius.
Those cars do have vastly different measurable differences and even when driven at local road speed, they do make noticeable difference. If you know of DACs or disc players available at consumer market these days that have vastly different measurable differences, please list some. I would like to check them out.
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let people make their choices and shut the hell up, it's a lost battle to begin with to lecture other people.
I would be up in arms if I see forum members interfering with someone making their own purchasing decision except that I haven't seen such action.
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post #187 of 252 Old 01-07-2016, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by LFEer View Post
Those cars do have vastly different measurable differences and even when driven at local road speed, they do make noticeable difference. If you know of DACs or disc players available at consumer market these days that have vastly different measurable differences, please list some. I would like to check them out. I would be up in arms if I see forum members interfering with someone making their own purchasing decision except that I haven't seen such action.
actually i can cite lots of measurements by which a BMW or a Lambo are infinitely inferior to a Prius as a rational driving choice. You can and should do better, this was a losing premise you took. Gas mileage. Insurance. Maintenance cost. Ability to use commute lanes during peak traffic while the BMW and the Lambo are stuck in it. Interior noise. Crash safety (you don't want to rear end a truck in a Lambo unless you're REALLY into self-decapitation). Curb clearance. Emissions. You -like many car buyers- focus on the irrational 0-60 stuff and the fact the car may be able to lap 20 secs faster around Laguna Seca in the hands of an expert driver (which the vast majority of owners are light years from being, most of them can't even use their blinkers properly).

no - cars are EXACTLY the same as the audio industry. they are sold on EXACTLY the same overblown marketing hype of superior performance that is unattainable and irrelevant for 90% of their buyers. sorry.

the fact YOU have more fun and get more ownership pride because of your particular choice has -in the real world- little to do with measurements, and a lot with PERCEIVED VALUE. and hey, i do too. heaven save us from a world where we are forced to drive Priuses (owners: i commend you for the rational choice and the commitment to the environment, but electric cars and hybrids will never be my particular choice until they are mandated by law, and then i shall still have my protected classic, ha).

and yes, there's a lot of heckling a posteriori that happens all the time. i saw in the Theta forum. and in some thread someone felt compelled -out of nowhere, and obviously to tell me i had wasted $2k- to point out my Benchmark DAC didn't fare any better in blind tests than cheaper DACs, utterly unaware of the fact the reason i got it was for flexibility, convenience and adaptability, not because i thought or cared i could hear a huge sonic difference.
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post #188 of 252 Old 01-07-2016, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
So this wasn't a direct comparison or do you own two copies of the cd? Out in the parking lot, eh? ....sounds about where such a "review" comes from....
Insults do not make you sound smart. The sonic differences were exactly as described.

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BRPs that use external decoding are nothing more than disc spinners which send the data to the AVR for decoding. How pray tell, is one modifying the sound of one part of the audio spectrum as it's the same data?
Obviously there is more to a transport than what you describe.

Both of you can conduct the same comparison for yourselves. I stated the player models and the music utilized.

If neither of you can hear differences between players, fine. It matters not to me. I have better things to do than dealing with further insults and derision. I am done here.

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post #189 of 252 Old 01-07-2016, 11:24 PM
 
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Insults do not make you sound smart. The sonic differences were exactly as described.


.
Not an insult, just a comment on the efficacy of your "test" method. I seriously doubt your description, just sounds like bad creative writing rather than a result to be believed.
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post #190 of 252 Old 01-08-2016, 12:13 AM
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Obviously there is more to a transport than what you describe.
No there's not. If there was then what you're describing would be akin to reading a word doc off a CDROM to your HDD and having the copy with every 5th, 14th, 27th and 36th word changed to another.

But if you're still reading and not sulking, then I'm prepared to be educated: what are the electrical characteristics of transports (used simply as disc spinners that cause them to have different sonic signatures? Please back it up with credible citations.

Oh, and by the way, I wasn't being insulting or derisive before, simply asking some questions. But as you seem to be so ready to project your imagination onto my intentions, then it's not much of a shift to apply it to objects.
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post #191 of 252 Old 01-08-2016, 02:54 AM
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Physical Acoustics are not affected by a swap of a disc player.

ASW and LEV are not affected by a swap of a disc player.

If comparisons are made over HDMI the AVR is the decoder.... to hear a difference a DSP mode or some spatializing processing must be engaged. "Parking lot".......

Another thread lost. This section of the forum is a wasteland of arguing.
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post #192 of 252 Old 01-08-2016, 03:34 AM
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move on please

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post #193 of 252 Old 01-08-2016, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by pablolie View Post
actually i can cite lots of measurements by which a BMW or a Lambo are infinitely inferior to a Prius as a rational driving choice. You can and should do better, this was a losing premise you took. Gas mileage. Insurance. Maintenance cost. Ability to use commute lanes during peak traffic while the BMW and the Lambo are stuck in it. Interior noise. Crash safety (you don't want to rear end a truck in a Lambo unless you're REALLY into self-decapitation). Curb clearance. Emissions. You -like many car buyers- focus on the irrational 0-60 stuff and the fact the car may be able to lap 20 secs faster around Laguna Seca in the hands of an expert driver (which the vast majority of owners are light years from being, most of them can't even use their blinkers properly).

no - cars are EXACTLY the same as the audio industry. they are sold on EXACTLY the same overblown marketing hype of superior performance that is unattainable and irrelevant for 90% of their buyers. sorry.

the fact YOU have more fun and get more ownership pride because of your particular choice has -in the real world- little to do with measurements, and a lot with PERCEIVED VALUE. and hey, i do too. heaven save us from a world where we are forced to drive Priuses (owners: i commend you for the rational choice and the commitment to the environment, but electric cars and hybrids will never be my particular choice until they are mandated by law, and then i shall still have my protected classic, ha).

and yes, there's a lot of heckling a posteriori that happens all the time. i saw in the Theta forum. and in some thread someone felt compelled -out of nowhere, and obviously to tell me i had wasted $2k- to point out my Benchmark DAC didn't fare any better in blind tests than cheaper DACs, utterly unaware of the fact the reason i got it was for flexibility, convenience and adaptability, not because i thought or cared i could hear a huge sonic difference.

I don't think the hostility being interjected here is necessary.

The fact is, your comparison is fundamentally flawed because it does not make apt comparisons and also discussed in absolutes with no regard to degree. Generally, I find audio enthusiasts to be on a whole, much less educated and much more gullible than enthusiasts in other hobbies. These people become particularly invested once they've committed their pride to one side or has already spent a lot of money on certain products.

Your car comparison, for example, is rather inaccurate. Saying that a Prius has advantages in some aspects does not have any relevance to the discussion. Those advantages are not the ones being advertised by Lamborghini. You know right from the get go, you are paying for a super engine, a status symbol, custom Italian finishes, etc. It is very clear what you are paying for.

On the other hand, the audio industry consciously focuses on ignorance of its consumers and the subjective influence of psychoacoustics. They advertise that you are paying for performance advantages when they don't exist at all.

There is no problem with people buying premium DACs and AMPs but it's a more-than-ordinary type of malicious deception on te industries part.

The other hole with your idea is that you pretend poor practices in other industries aren't criticized. All such things should be properly scrutinized in all industries, otherwise the industry will sell is junk at a premium like what happens excessively in audio.

I have no problem with companies selling $10,000 cables as long as they advertise it as just being more luxurious, like a watch with 3 internal diamonds no one will see. However, we all know that these companies stay afloat only because people believe in the non-existent performance advantages.


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post #194 of 252 Old 01-08-2016, 10:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by pablolie View Post
actually i can cite lots of measurements by which a BMW or a Lambo are infinitely inferior to a Prius as a rational driving choice. You can and should do better, this was a losing premise you took. Gas mileage. Insurance. Maintenance cost. Ability to use commute lanes during peak traffic while the BMW and the Lambo are stuck in it. Interior noise. Crash safety (you don't want to rear end a truck in a Lambo unless you're REALLY into self-decapitation). Curb clearance. Emissions. You -like many car buyers- focus on the irrational 0-60 stuff and the fact the car may be able to lap 20 secs faster around Laguna Seca in the hands of an expert driver (which the vast majority of owners are light years from being, most of them can't even use their blinkers properly).

no - cars are EXACTLY the same as the audio industry. they are sold on EXACTLY the same overblown marketing hype of superior performance that is unattainable and irrelevant for 90% of their buyers. sorry.

the fact YOU have more fun and get more ownership pride because of your particular choice has -in the real world- little to do with measurements, and a lot with PERCEIVED VALUE. and hey, i do too. heaven save us from a world where we are forced to drive Priuses (owners: i commend you for the rational choice and the commitment to the environment, but electric cars and hybrids will never be my particular choice until they are mandated by law, and then i shall still have my protected classic, ha).
I'm not sure what these have to do with my post.

Quote:
and yes, there's a lot of heckling a posteriori that happens all the time. i saw in the Theta forum. and in some thread someone felt compelled -out of nowhere, and obviously to tell me i had wasted $2k- to point out my Benchmark DAC didn't fare any better in blind tests than cheaper DACs, utterly unaware of the fact the reason i got it was for flexibility, convenience and adaptability, not because i thought or cared i could hear a huge sonic difference.
If something went on at that place, why complain over here?
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post #195 of 252 Old 01-08-2016, 11:01 AM
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You know, my very first sound system, an absolute piece of crap, brought absolute joy to my heart as a kid.

As long as your equipment does that for you more power to you.

Wouldn't it suck to hate your experience because of some number on a stat sheet?


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post #196 of 252 Old 01-08-2016, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by pablolie View Post

for example: i am a lifelong, passionate sport-bike motorcycle rider. when people not versed in my particular inclination when it comes to motorcycles ask me if I own a Harley, i don't throw up and answer they are under-powered, over-priced pieces of crap that can't even turn properly. i actually appreciate any sort of passion for motorcycles, even though cruisers are not and will never be my personal choice given my very own, peculiar preferences. yes, my motorcycle will leave any Harley in the dust. but maybe while i'd be bitterly trying to prove my point, the guy on the Harley left behind would be leisurely enjoying his ride and smiling at the world and enjoying the beautiful landscape, loving his choice. good for him! audio is NO different. there is no reason why it should.
Still wish I had my first motorcyle; it would be a blast around Santa Rosa. CB50 in Belgium.

After almost 40 years of riding I found that my pathetic little DRZ400SM brought me more joy riding than my 130hp SS so got rid of the SS.

Are you on BARF? (Bay Area Motorcycle Forum)

I also see parallels between motorcycle enthusiasts and audio enthusiasts.

In the end its not what you buy but how much you enjoy it.

For those not in the "know" about motorcycles, one of the newer "controversies" amongst the new and old guards is "digital" vs "analog."

Sound familiar?
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post #197 of 252 Old 01-08-2016, 12:15 PM
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You know, my very first sound system, an absolute piece of crap, brought absolute joy to my heart as a kid.


This was mine (inherited from my big sister).

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post #198 of 252 Old 01-08-2016, 12:40 PM
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Are you on BARF? (Bay Area Motorcycle Forum)

I also see parallels between motorcycle enthusiasts and audio enthusiasts.
In the end its not what you buy but how much you enjoy it.
For those not in the "know" about motorcycles, one of the newer "controversies" amongst the new and old guards is "digital" vs "analog."
Sound familiar?
I am on BARF but admittedly not very active. I have a BMW R1100S (which I adore and is my fav motorcycle ever, and is tricked to the gills) as well as a KTM Duke 690.

Just like in here, I have a lot of interest in simply chatting why people arrive at certain likes/dislikes, and just roll my eyes when people go on about "better" and specmanship. In motorcycle these days, the only reason why (most) people are able to ride 160HP+ motorcycles and not end up wrapped around an electricity pole is because of electronics - traction and stability. I know I'd brain myself with a 200HP motorcycle without electronics, and I have been riding for many, many years. When electronics cut in regularly it means you're not really using a fraction of that power. I shall always take ABS (and heated handlebars) these days, but don't really need all that power if it comes with electronics. I'd rather have *less* power that I manage myself.

Sorry for the out of topic post...
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post #199 of 252 Old 01-08-2016, 02:55 PM
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If nothing else these conversations can be entertaining. Why can't audio be related to the auto industry (or any other industry like clothing or furniture or musical instruments)? We're really talking about economics and in many cases individual perception as mentioned above.

In addition, how many people here have a proven background in electrical or audio engineering? My guess is not many (including myself). But it's interesting to see a lot of talk in absolutes about equipment design with strong words and occasional insults.
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post #200 of 252 Old 01-08-2016, 05:58 PM
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Mark:

As you observed, simply conveying the audio characteristics of two Blu-ray players in an effort to help anyone that may wish to have one inexpensive unit for decent quality audio and video, leads to attacks and insults from the usual small group. I intended to not write further posts, but after being told my observations are "creative writing" (Post 189) and just my "imagination" (Post 190), I should be allowed to make the following comments:

The audio differences I described in Post 182 are not subtle. They are easily heard. (Note that all testing was done with the Yamaha 2020 in Pure Direct mode.) The Sony S6500's treble is the most obvious difference (relative to the Samsung H5900), as it rolls off as one goes up in frequency. Hearing cymbals at the back of a stage at a typical distance behind the singer (the Samsung) versus the cymbals waay further back (the Sony) does not require special listening skills. I should mention that the Sony is not defective. I have two Sony S6500 players and they sound identical.

That there are differences to be heard between players via their digital outputs is nothing new. There are plenty of professional reviews and hobbyists that discuss the audible characteristics of transports' digital outputs. Sometimes the differences are extremely small, sometimes significant, and every variation in between. The British magazine What Hi-Fi describes the sonics (via HDMI) of Blu-ray players in their reviews.

If a poster is incapable of hearing differences in the sonics of players, whether it is through their analog or digital outputs, fine. I accept you cannot hear it. If you choose to theorize that differences cannot exist, fine. Believe whatever makes you comfortable. But do not tell me or the many others that have no difficulty hearing sonic differences that we are fabricating stories.

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Theater room: Panasonic 65S60 plasma television; Yamaha RX-A2020 (preamp section); Adcom GFA-5503 and GFA-5400 amplifiers; Polk LSi25, LSiC, and LSiF/X loudspeaker system; Velodyne FSR-18 servo-subwoofer.
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post #201 of 252 Old 01-08-2016, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Alex F. View Post
Mark:

As you observed, simply conveying the audio characteristics of two Blu-ray players in an effort to help anyone that may wish to have one inexpensive unit for decent quality audio and video, leads to attacks and insults from the usual small group. I intended to not write further posts, but after being told my observations are "creative writing" (Post 189) and just my "imagination" (Post 190), I should be allowed to make the following comments:

The audio differences I described in Post 182 are not subtle. They are easily heard. (Note that all testing was done with the Yamaha 2020 in Pure Direct mode.) The Sony S6500's treble is the most obvious difference (relative to the Samsung H5900), as it rolls off as one goes up in frequency. Hearing cymbals at the back of a stage at a typical distance behind the singer (the Samsung) versus the cymbals waay further back (the Sony) does not require special listening skills. I should mention that the Sony is not defective. I have two Sony S6500 players and they sound identical.

That there are differences to be heard between players via their digital outputs is nothing new. There are plenty of professional reviews and hobbyists that discuss the audible characteristics of transports' digital outputs. Sometimes the differences are extremely small, sometimes significant, and every variation in between. The British magazine What Hi-Fi describes the sonics (via HDMI) of Blu-ray players in their reviews.

If a poster is incapable of hearing differences in the sonics of players, whether it is through their analog or digital outputs, fine. I accept you cannot hear it. If you choose to theorize that differences cannot exist, fine. Believe whatever makes you comfortable. But do not tell me or the many others that have no difficulty hearing sonic differences that we are fabricating stories.
all i can say is it is pointless to get into these exchanges with the usual blind test crew. once i stated i could always tell apart two specific DACs, and was told that was impossible a priori, without them even listening or stopping to think about what could make me state that. i wouldn't in a blind test of course! i'd say every time. oh no, you need ABX! turns out, out DAC had very hearable background hiss at high volume, one didnt have any. without playing music i'd be able to tell especially if i held my ear close to speakers. then it was full pathetic retreat. Oh no, that doesn't count! you're not even playing music! like there are not very dynamic classical music pieces that reveal background hiss, especially with sensitive speakers.

anyone that says all Blueray players sound the same, or all DACs sound the same... it's such an absolute statement they set themselves up for failure. all it takes is ONE counter example to prove the entire argument wrong.
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post #202 of 252 Old 01-09-2016, 06:19 AM
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Therein lies the problem with categorical statements.

What's most amusing to those on the sidelines is that both sides of the argument would likely have more in common than they know. If they were to meet in a real life neutral situation, like a CES event for example, they would have plenty to talk about heartily, and would likely even be friendly.

Take these arguments with a grain of salt. Enjoy your systems. That's all its about in the end.

If you wanna get serious about sound, online quarrels are not the answer (at any forum.) Learn for yourself, and shrug off the rest.



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post #203 of 252 Old 01-09-2016, 09:20 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pablolie View Post
turns out, out DAC had very hearable background hiss at high volume, one didnt have any. without playing music i'd be able to tell especially if i held my ear close to speakers.
There are other ways to tell DACs apart without doing level matched DBT and one of them is even simpler and more accurate than yours, it's called "looking at the measurements". I can tell them apart every time. But the question is, can one tell them apart in level matched DBT? That will require actually performing the level matched DBT, which I have done many. How about you?
Quote:
anyone that says all Blueray players sound the same, or all DACs sound the same... it's such an absolute statement they set themselves up for failure. all it takes is ONE counter example to prove the entire argument wrong.
What I've seen posted time and time again are, except for defective unit or esoteric unit that's intentionally designed to "color" the sound, DACs don't have audible signature sound and that's been consistent cases in level matched DBTs. I would like to know more about that ONE level matched DBT which revealed the audible difference between DACs that are not defective or esoteric unit intentionally designed to "color" the sound.
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post #204 of 252 Old 01-09-2016, 09:29 AM
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the best thing that ever happened to audio imo is powerful room correction software- this can negate the sound of a room to an extent, and i have seen it make painful sounding speakers sound orders of magnitude better.

in other words it can bring even bad systems up a notch.

having said that, there is a lot of junk in audio and unfortunately people think they will get a better sound by spending more money, which is not always the case, as there is also a lot of high end junk.

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post #205 of 252 Old 01-09-2016, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LFEer View Post
... That will require actually performing the level matched DBT, which I have done many. How about you? ...
There are a ton of DBT tests out there on the internet one can easily take. It's not such an esoteric secret thing. As to equipment, for my own use I see no point in DBT, because I don't buy my equipment to please anyone else, nor do I waste a second thinking I ought to defend my choices.
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post #206 of 252 Old 01-09-2016, 11:02 AM
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This thread is a good read, excepting the digression in CD/blu-ray players.
I tend to agree with the car analogy with the caveat that the audio industry is still subject to more blatant snake-oil tactics.

Specifically, in my case:
When the last kid is thru college, am I going to do a serious audio upgrade? Without a doubt. Am I going to spend more than I need to for a given performance level? You betcha. Am I going to waste money on exotic cables? Unlikely.

Right now I am keeping my wish list updated. All good fun.

Following the car analogy, as the Audio Critic says, when you buy a Bryston or McIntosh and open the cover (hood) you can see right away where your money went. Do I expect them to sound better at the same output level as my current ATI amp? Not at all, but that is besides the point.
In my case, I would go to the BMW/Audi/Lexus level (e.g. Bryston, Mcintosh, Diavalet*, ...) and let someone else get the Lamborghini. Would I sneer at the Lamborghini owner? Not at all, unless they try to convince me that their air-freshener improves the car's cornering.

*These guys are a serious alternative to more traditional designs. Wow.
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post #207 of 252 Old 01-09-2016, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by clpetersen View Post
In my case, I would go to the BMW/Audi/Lexus level (e.g. Bryston, Mcintosh, Diavalet*, ...) and let someone else get the Lamborghini. Would I sneer at the Lamborghini owner? Not at all, unless they try to convince me that their air-freshener improves the car's cornering..


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post #208 of 252 Old 01-09-2016, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clpetersen View Post
This thread is a good read, excepting the digression in CD/blu-ray players.
(.., Diavalet*, ...)

*These guys are a serious alternative to more traditional designs. Wow.
Indeed, I am convinced my cuyrrent system is the last "traditional" system I'll ever own. I love it, but real break throughs are happening with stuff like Devialet, Hypex designs, built-in room corrections (as someone else posted)... *that* stuff will make anything sound better in your living room, rather than if you spent $200k on a traditional component 2.0 approach right now.

Then again, I expect with more electronics even more snake oil may become possible, and that perceived obsolescence may happen even faster for those afflicted by acute upgrade-atitis... i.e. "nanosecond dynamic multidimensional array correction will filter out the background noise caused by your cat's purring in the corner of the room"...
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post #209 of 252 Old 01-09-2016, 01:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pablolie View Post
As to equipment, for my own use I see no point in DBT, because I don't buy my equipment to please anyone else, nor do I waste a second thinking I ought to defend my choices.
That's all fine and dandy but that's not what some posters do, is it? As you have seen already, they post claims on audible difference without supporting evidence. When someone asks for it, they get all bent out of shape and go on a tirade for some reason...
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post #210 of 252 Old 01-09-2016, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clpetersen View Post
This thread is a good read, excepting the digression in CD/blu-ray players.
I tend to agree with the car analogy with the caveat that the audio industry is still subject to more blatant snake-oil tactics.

Specifically, in my case:
When the last kid is thru college, am I going to do a serious audio upgrade? Without a doubt. Am I going to spend more than I need to for a given performance level? You betcha. Am I going to waste money on exotic cables? Unlikely.

Right now I am keeping my wish list updated. All good fun.

Following the car analogy, as the Audio Critic says, when you buy a Bryston or McIntosh and open the cover (hood) you can see right away where your money went. Do I expect them to sound better at the same output level as my current ATI amp? Not at all, but that is besides the point.
In my case, I would go to the BMW/Audi/Lexus level (e.g. Bryston, Mcintosh, Diavalet*, ...) and let someone else get the Lamborghini. Would I sneer at the Lamborghini owner? Not at all, unless they try to convince me that their air-freshener improves the car's cornering.

*These guys are a serious alternative to more traditional designs. Wow.

one of the guy's chose the lamborghini
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