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post #31 of 58 Old 10-19-2016, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by devarajd View Post
Hi All,

I am planning to setup my first 2 Channel HiFi System just for the sole purpose of music. Here is what i am thinking:

1. Pair of SVS Ultra Tower Speakers
2. A-S801 w built in DAC 100w x 2 Channel

Not sure if this A-S801 Amp is good enough to drive these 2 Towers. Appreciate your feedback if this setup is worth $3000 for HiFi system that I am trying to setup.
Also, how would these SVS speakers work out for just pure Music.


Thanks
Dave
Do you have any local dealers that you can listen to and compare systems? Is $3k total budget, or just for the amp and speakers? What other speakers / systems have you listened to (either in the room this system is going, or in other rooms), and what did you like/dislike about them?

Also, if you enjoy bass heavy music, it's worth considering a 2.1 or 2.2 system (i.e. with subs). It will make your speaker (even the SVS Ultra's) sound like a much bigger speaker that can reach far deeper. If budget is a concern, you can start with one sub, and then add a 2nd if budget allows in the future.
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post #32 of 58 Old 10-20-2016, 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Knucklehead90 View Post
See if the seller of these Salk Song Towers will separate the towers from the center speaker. Unless you're a dedicated bass head you won't need a sub - I promise! These speakers have a very long thread on one AVS member's wanderings while looking for his perfect speaker. He settled on the Song Towers. Now that I own a pair I can see why he did. One thing I've noticed about the Salk speakers - when a Salk owner upgrades they almost always get another pair of Salk speakers.
I agree. I have supercharged song towers. I'll never own a different speaker...
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post #33 of 58 Old 10-21-2016, 02:42 PM
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If you want high-value, good-quality, full-featured system at a very good price, there is little that can be faulted with the original system.

But, consider the things I said about the Side-Firing Drivers on the SVS. These can not fire into a wall or into the equipment cabinet, they need space on each side of the speaker. So, if you placement allows MINIMUM of 2ft on each side of the speaker, though more would be better, then I don't see a problem. However, if you space is tighter than that, then there are perhaps other speaker in the same price range that might be a better choice.

One thing to consider is the size of the room. The bigger the room, the bigger the speakers can be. The smaller the room, within reasonable limits, the smaller the speaker should be.

Then what are your priorities. If you want absolutely balanced high quality sound, that implies a particular approach to speaker selection. If you like a bit more bass, that is another approach. If you want a mellow laid-back sound, you need to consider different speakers, than if you want more forward speakers with stronger presence. I suspect, the SVS somewhat straddle the line between the two.

It is more the subtleties of you and your circumstances that push you toward one speaker over the other.

To thine own self be true.

Disregarding the extremest naysayers, the original system sounds fantastic.

Steve/bluewizard
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post #34 of 58 Old 10-23-2016, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by bluewizard View Post

But, consider the things I said about the Side-Firing Drivers on the SVS. These can not fire into a wall or into the equipment cabinet, they need space on each side of the speaker. So, if you placement allows MINIMUM of 2ft on each side of the speaker, though more would be better, then I don't see a problem. However, if you space is tighter than that, then there are perhaps other speaker in the same price range that might be a better choice.
The SVS Ultra Towers utilize side-firing woofers located at the bottom of the cabinets, a configuration developed by Acoustic Research for the AR9 in the late 1970s. The AR9 utilizes one 12" woofer on each side of its enclosure (four 12" woofers total for a pair of loudspeakers). I bought a new pair of the AR9s in the early 1980s and still use them today. They offer incredible performance. I have tried many times, and failed, to find better loudspeakers over the years, auditioning models priced up to about $13,000.

It may not seem logical, but, in my experience, locating the woofers relatively close to a sidewall presents few if any sonic problems in the bass region. Out of necessity, for about eight years, I had the right-side AR9 about 10" from the sidewall and the left one about 6" from a bookcase on the left sidewall. The bass response remained flat, smooth, and not exaggerated at all, as I had initially feared. In my subsequent apartment and today's new house, where the sidewalls are several feet away, the bass response sounds the same as before.

Note, too, that SVS's user manual for the Ultra Tower gives no specific recommendations about sidewall placement. The manual provides only general advice that pertains to any loudspeaker. The manual does suggest inserting a foam port plug in the back of the enclosure if the speaker is utilized in a small room. The manual explains that the plug creates a "sealed acoustic alignment"--just like the AR9. What's old is new again.
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Music room: Cary SLI-80 tube integrated amplifier, McIntosh MA6500 integrated amplifier, Quad 99 preamp, Quad 909 power amp, Acoustic Research AR9 loudspeakers, Yamaha CD-N500 CD player, Teac UD-503 DSD DAC, Phase Linear 8000II linear-tracking turntable.
Theater room: Panasonic 65S60 plasma television; Yamaha RX-A2020 (preamp section); Adcom GFA-5503 and GFA-5400 amplifiers; Polk LSi25, LSiC, and LSiF/X loudspeaker system; Velodyne FSR-18 servo-subwoofer.
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post #35 of 58 Old 10-26-2016, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by devarajd View Post
I want to move to something other than klipsch as the ref speakers are not that great for music

That is an understatement; IMO they absolutely suck (except for the Klipschorn and the other Legacy series speakers, which are very good).
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post #36 of 58 Old 10-27-2016, 01:23 AM
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Originally Posted by commsysman View Post
That is an understatement; IMO they absolutely suck (except for the Klipschorn and the other Legacy series speakers, which are very good).
Agreed. I wouldn't use Klipsch for listening to music. Klipsch speakers are meant for home theater use. For music I would look elsewhere. There are countless choices out there. It comes down to personal taste when it comes to speaker choices. Finding the right amp and other electronic components in the chain to match with your speakers and other applications are very crucial in order to build a good hifi system.
All comes down to system synergy as well as spec and technical requirements for each of your application and components. Everything in the signal paths matters.
Explore as much as you could and give a listen to as many as possible until you find the ones that meet your expectations as well as budgets. Reading professional reviews might help especially when you cannot have access to demo certain particular products in your area.

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post #37 of 58 Old 10-27-2016, 09:42 AM
 
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Reading professional reviews might help
No, it won't because they are "paid" to review. That creates bias.
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post #38 of 58 Old 10-27-2016, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by LFEer View Post
No, it won't because they are "paid" to review. That creates bias.
IDK, the pro reviews of the Martin Logan LX16s I bought this year and the reviews of the Q Acoustics Concept 20s I tested against them were pretty much spot on.

If you start to see similar impressions across various pro reviews across publications I think you can draw some conclusions from that.

Several years ago after auditioning and buying some Usher V602s which I still have to this day a looked up some pro reviews and they were on point with my experience as well.
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post #39 of 58 Old 10-27-2016, 04:06 PM
 
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If you start to see similar impressions across various pro reviews across publications I think you can draw some conclusions from that.
Wouldn't you rather go with unbiased reviews?
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post #40 of 58 Old 10-27-2016, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by LFEer View Post
Wouldn't you rather go with unbiased reviews?
Not sure I follow, I did not find the reviews biased in the THREE separate speakers I mentioned; they all essentially mirrored what I actually heard.

The negative points that were mentioned I also mostly agreed with, (ie. the LX16's don't play deep, the Usher V602 towers start to distort at very loud volumes so are not suitable for high SPLs in especially large rooms are the one that come to mind).

So if by biased you mean a reflection of what they actually sounded like to me then yes.

The Usher and Q Acoustics reviews I didn't even read before auditioning them.

What is an unbiased review source to you?

Geoff A. J., California
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post #41 of 58 Old 10-27-2016, 04:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
Not sure I follow, I did not find the reviews biased in the THREE separate speakers I mentioned; they all essentially mirrored what I actually heard.

The negative points that were mentioned I also mostly agreed with, (ie. the LX16's don't play deep, the Usher V602 towers start to distort at very loud volumes so are not suitable for high SPLs in especially large rooms are the one that come to mind).

So if by biased you mean a reflection of what they actually sounded like to me then yes.

The Usher and Q Acoustics reviews I didn't even read before auditioning them.

What is an unbiased review source to you?
Well one obvious reason would be that by reading the reviews you setup your expectations to a degree....
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post #42 of 58 Old 10-27-2016, 07:10 PM
 
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What is an unbiased review source to you?
Ones with no dog in the race. You had to ask?
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post #43 of 58 Old 10-27-2016, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by LFEer View Post
Wouldn't you rather go with unbiased reviews?
There's no such thing... even from oneself...
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post #44 of 58 Old 10-27-2016, 11:53 PM
 
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There's no such thing... even from oneself...
Yes, there are.
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post #45 of 58 Old 10-28-2016, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by LFEer View Post
Wouldn't you rather go with unbiased reviews?
Over the years, I have found most of the reviews in Stereophile and The Absolute sound to be useful in deciding which components I might be interested in for my home systems.

They generally contain good factual information, as well as personal opinions, which one can take with a grain of salt or ignore.

The idea that they are "biased" seems questionable.

Could you explain exactly how and why you think they are biased, and how that makes them completely invalid.
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post #46 of 58 Old 10-28-2016, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
Well one obvious reason would be that by reading the reviews you setup your expectations to a degree....
2 of the 3 I didn't read the reviews at least a month after I had them in the house.

Geoff A. J., California
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post #47 of 58 Old 10-28-2016, 02:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by commsysman View Post
Over the years, I have found most of the reviews in Stereophile and The Absolute sound to be useful in deciding which components I might be interested in for my home systems.

They generally contain good factual information, as well as personal opinions, which one can take with a grain of salt or ignore.

The idea that they are "biased" seems questionable.

Could you explain exactly how and why you think they are biased, and how that makes them completely invalid.
They promote silly cable/wire which is reason enough for me to stay clear of anything they have to say; whether its biased due to advertising dollars or just being 'phools doesn't matter to me, just makes their opinions unworthy of reading. Then again I'd steer clear of most everything you have to say about audio for that matter.
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post #48 of 58 Old 10-28-2016, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by commsysman View Post
Over the years, I have found most of the reviews in Stereophile and The Absolute sound to be useful in deciding which components I might be interested in for my home systems.

They generally contain good factual information, as well as personal opinions, which one can take with a grain of salt or ignore.

The idea that they are "biased" seems questionable.

Could you explain exactly how and why you think they are biased, and how that makes them completely invalid.

I always consult with both rags if they have reviewed a product that I'm interested in. I've read both of them since they've been publishing.

Plus, I will admit to buying sight unseen / unheard a few times (mostly fancy pants cables) based on their reviews depending who the reviewer is. Some I've agreed with over the years and a few I haven't, although I personally have known many of them and a few for decades. Still though, they have far more access to a variety of equipment than I'd ever have a chance to hear and compare. Especially here with the dearth of audio stores we have in Central Ohio. Depending who the reviewer is, I'll take a chance, and if it doesn't work out, I'll sell it and take my loss. What really happens here is that it goes on a shelf and sits ..... for decades.

Even if a store around here sells something I'm interested in, an overnight home demo still isn't long enough, unless something is really bad. I need to live with a piece of equipment day in day out for a while until I know if it sounds better.

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post #49 of 58 Old 10-28-2016, 04:54 PM
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I always consult with both rags if they have reviewed a product that I'm interested in. I've read both of them since they've been publishing.

Plus, I will admit to buying sight unseen / unheard a few times (mostly fancy pants cables) based on their reviews depending who the reviewer is. Some I've agreed with over the years and a few I haven't, although I personally have known many of them and a few for decades. Still though, they have far more access to a variety of equipment than I'd ever have a chance to hear and compare. Especially here with the dearth of audio stores we have in Central Ohio. Depending who the reviewer is, I'll take a chance, and if it doesn't work out, I'll sell it and take my loss. What really happens here is that it goes on a shelf and sits ..... for decades.

Even if a store around here sells something I'm interested in, an overnight home demo still isn't long enough, unless something is really bad. I need to live with a piece of equipment day in day out for a while until I know if it sounds better.

That sounds like the best way to go.

Having a new component in your home for a few days is the only way to be confident it is going to work out for you; that is my experience.

If need be, I buy it from a company that has a no-hassle return policy and ship it back after a week if I have to.
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post #50 of 58 Old 10-28-2016, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by commsysman View Post
That sounds like the best way to go.

Having a new component in your home for a few days is the only way to be confident it is going to work out for you; that is my experience.

If need be, I buy it from a company that has a no-hassle return policy and ship it back after a week if I have to.

See that's the problem. I never get around to returning anything so it just piles up around here.

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post #51 of 58 Old 10-28-2016, 07:51 PM
 
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Could you explain exactly how and why you think they are biased, and how that makes them completely invalid.
Once you acknowledge that you now have a better understanding of Yamaha amps after this, I will explain.
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post #52 of 58 Old 11-06-2016, 08:38 PM
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Once you acknowledge that you now have a better understanding of Yamaha amps after this, I will explain.

Are you saying this just for the lower end Yamaha's?

I was thinking about a A-s2000
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post #53 of 58 Old 11-17-2016, 07:35 AM
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I assume that you mean a Yamaha S-801 amplifier. In my opinion, that is one of the worst-designed amplifiers on the market, and will not do a good job of driving those speakers.

The Cambridge CXA60 is a MUCH better amplifier at around the same price, and will drive those speakers far better.
The OP was correct, it is the Yamaha A-S801, not the S-801.

Having heard the CXA80 (same toroidal transformer, same DAC as the CXA60, just more watts) and the A-S801 first hand side by side in the same listening room yesterday I completely disagree that the A-S801 is "one of the worst designed amps.

Music was Diana Krall, speakers were the ELAC UB5 three-way, volume was moderate to loud.

The CXA80 was neutral. The A-S801 was definitely brighter -- the salesman was kind of surprised that I picked that out immediately -- but it pretty obvious to me.

Both sounded absolutely wonderful delivering detail and clarify of treble, midrange, and bass, albeit with the A-S801 having a brighter midrange rolling off into the treble.

The A-S801 is not my cup of tea, but it would be hard to go wrong with either amp.

The _only_ way to KNOW is to listen -- because otherwise you're just listening to someone else's hyperbole.

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post #54 of 58 Old 11-17-2016, 03:22 PM
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The _only_ way to KNOW is to listen --.
Absolutely; just what I have always said!

The dorks that make me throw up my hands are the ones that say" it measures the same so it can't sound different".

What they don't realize are how limited the published power specs are, and the many things those simple specs do not tell you.

It's kind of like saying that two guys will make the same kind of husband if their biceps measure the same. Not enough information.
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post #55 of 58 Old 11-17-2016, 05:24 PM
 
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Absolutely; just what I have always said!
If you have always said level matched double blind listening, then I agree with you.
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post #56 of 58 Old 11-17-2016, 07:43 PM
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If you have always said level matched double blind listening, then I agree with you.

Impractical and of questionable value.

Do you seriously propose that before a person can form a valid opinion of how something sounds, double-blind testing must be arranged?

To do it properly requires scientifically designed protocols and a large number of test subjects; a lot of work, expense, and logistics.

You will wait a long long time before a particular piece of gear you might be interested in is going to be tested sufficiently to satisfy that requirement.

When was the last time you actually bought a specific audio component based on the kind of double-blind testing you are talking about?

I'll bet the answer is NEVER!
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Originally Posted by commsysman View Post
Impractical and of questionable value.
Which you wouldn't know because you've never done it.
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Do you seriously propose that before a person can form a valid opinion of how something sounds, double-blind testing must be arranged?
They can if they want to make it valid. But that's not the situation you and other claim posters were in. You guys are posting unsupported claims online about the electronic audio devices sounding different. If you have supporting evidence, please share.
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To do it properly requires scientifically designed protocols and a large number of test subjects; a lot of work, expense, and logistics.

You will wait a long long time before a particular piece of gear you might be interested in is going to be tested sufficiently to satisfy that requirement.
Have you ever done any?

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post #58 of 58 Old 11-18-2016, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by commsysman View Post
Absolutely; just what I have always said!

The dorks that make me throw up my hands are the ones that say" it measures the same so it can't sound different".

What they don't realize are how limited the published power specs are, and the many things those simple specs do not tell you.

It's kind of like saying that two guys will make the same kind of husband if their biceps measure the same. Not enough information.
Agreed !!

I start with my eyes (specs, and reviews), and finish with my ears (listening).

Specifications gives me a starting point to show me what you value.

No specs == No sale.

OT: This is one of the reasons I hate Bose and all the other crappy manufacturers (audio or not) that doesn't list specs. They can't respect the customer -- have an attitude of "lie of omission" -- which begs the question: What _else_ are you hiding!? By being not upfront they are basically cowards.

i.e. Last year I was looking for a ~$1K bicycle from some of the more well-known brands. Is it really that smegging hard to list weight??? I mean seriously, I don't need 1/1000 precision here, just +/- 0.5 is "good enough."

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