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post #1 of 6 Old 10-27-2016, 10:29 AM - Thread Starter
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70v Speaker System

I've been scratching my head on this and I need some help....

I setup all the A/V Equipment in my family's new sports bar. I'm familiar with video and upon doing all the research needed, I was able to setup our TV's using a matrix switcher. That works great and I have no issues with it. The problem I'm having is that I was never able to get our speaker system to work as optimal as it should be. What I mean by that is that it's not loud enough when our bar is full and I can't raise the volume (on the amplifier) past halfway or it'll start clipping.

I bought a 70v speaker system after it was suggested to be the best choice. I also bought 2 volume controllers because we need to have our dining area at a different volume than our bar area. The diagram attached shows the install that I have setup. But it's not giving me the loudness that I need. Our building is not that large, each speaker are about 4 to 6 feet about from each other. Do I have this setup wrong? Below are the equipment that I'm using

16 AWG audio wire
Rolls RA2100b Power Amplifier (70v @ 200watts)
2 x Atlas AT100 100 watt Volume Controllers
18 x Dayton CS620ECT 6 inch 70v speakers (tapped at 8 watts)
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post #2 of 6 Old 10-27-2016, 06:30 PM
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If it's not loud and its clipping/ getting distorted, then that usually points to the source signal feeding the amp being too high.

In a place that size, a 200w amp and each spkr tapped at 8 watts should be blaring loud.

Have you also tried disconnecting one side of the 2 sets of speakers, say the bar side, and just run the dining rm side? Are all the connections tight and secure in the whole system? Have you also tried removing the volume controls to see how it performs?
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post #3 of 6 Old 10-27-2016, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StefanoPolo View Post
I've been scratching my head on this and I need some help....

I setup all the A/V Equipment in my family's new sports bar. I'm familiar with video and upon doing all the research needed, I was able to setup our TV's using a matrix switcher. That works great and I have no issues with it. The problem I'm having is that I was never able to get our speaker system to work as optimal as it should be. What I mean by that is that it's not loud enough when our bar is full and I can't raise the volume (on the amplifier) past halfway or it'll start clipping.

I bought a 70v speaker system after it was suggested to be the best choice. I also bought 2 volume controllers because we need to have our dining area at a different volume than our bar area. The diagram attached shows the install that I have setup. But it's not giving me the loudness that I need. Our building is not that large, each speaker are about 4 to 6 feet about from each other. Do I have this setup wrong? Below are the equipment that I'm using

16 AWG audio wire
Rolls RA2100b Power Amplifier (70v @ 200watts)
2 x Atlas AT100 100 watt Volume Controllers
18 x Dayton CS620ECT 6 inch 70v speakers (tapped at 8 watts)
Buy a second 200 watt amp and feed it a low level signal from the RA2100b, and run one branch on one, and one on the other, then tap the speakers at 16 Watts each. ditch the VC's or they will burn.
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post #4 of 6 Old 10-27-2016, 09:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwkshift View Post
If it's not loud and its clipping/ getting distorted, then that usually points to the source signal feeding the amp being too high.

In a place that size, a 200w amp and each spkr tapped at 8 watts should be blaring loud.

Have you also tried disconnecting one side of the 2 sets of speakers, say the bar side, and just run the dining rm side? Are all the connections tight and secure in the whole system? Have you also tried removing the volume controls to see how it performs?
You're absolutely right!

I realized the exact same issue tonight when I decided to play around with my speaker system one last time. I disconnected the volume controllers to see if they were the issue but it was still clipping. But what was weird is that I had the master volume controller on the amp all the way down to 0! That's when I realized what the problem was this entire time. The source of the audio is coming in too loud. I added a pre-amp that I had laying around and lowered the source audio and bingo, the system works great!

Man this has been bugging me for months. Before tonight, I had these speakers running on the 25v line from the Amp but it wasn't cutting it. Now I get the loudness that I needed from the 70v line and the whole time I had exactly what I needed to fix the issue. I appreciated the responses I received here. I should have done my research on this more thoroughly before messing around with these dangerous devices. I actually ended up blowing the amp the first time which they replaced for me for free. I was extremely lucky....
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post #5 of 6 Old 10-28-2016, 08:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PK Audio View Post
Buy a second 200 watt amp and feed it a low level signal from the RA2100b, and run one branch on one, and one on the other, then tap the speakers at 16 Watts each. ditch the VC's or they will burn.
The reason why i need these volume controllers is because it's easier to actually know what level to change each room at while you're in that room rather than jumping back and forth between the rooms and the AV closet. The loudness needed always changes depending on the amount of customers we have at that moment.

I want to get the most out of what I purchased at the moment however at some point, i'm going to purchase a larger amp that will support each speaker at 16 watts and replace the volume controllers with 200 watt versions.
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post #6 of 6 Old 10-28-2016, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StefanoPolo View Post
I've been scratching my head on this and I need some help....

I setup all the A/V Equipment in my family's new sports bar. I'm familiar with video and upon doing all the research needed, I was able to setup our TV's using a matrix switcher. That works great and I have no issues with it. The problem I'm having is that I was never able to get our speaker system to work as optimal as it should be. What I mean by that is that it's not loud enough when our bar is full and I can't raise the volume (on the amplifier) past halfway or it'll start clipping.

I bought a 70v speaker system after it was suggested to be the best choice. I also bought 2 volume controllers because we need to have our dining area at a different volume than our bar area. The diagram attached shows the install that I have setup. But it's not giving me the loudness that I need. Our building is not that large, each speaker are about 4 to 6 feet about from each other. Do I have this setup wrong? Below are the equipment that I'm using

16 AWG audio wire
Rolls RA2100b Power Amplifier (70v @ 200watts)
2 x Atlas AT100 100 watt Volume Controllers
18 x Dayton CS620ECT 6 inch 70v speakers (tapped at 8 watts)

You do not seem to understand the function of the taps on each speaker. Selecting one tap or another changes the audio signal voltage applied to that speaker and raises or lowers its volume relative to the other speakers in the system. That is the whole idea of the different taps; to allow you to set each speaker's relative volume independently of the others.

The taps on each speaker control the volume of that speaker. That is their purpose. The "8 watts" indication is essentially meaningless, except to indicate the approximate load relative to the overall system and other speakers. You don't want them all selected to "8 watts", because that sets them all to the same relative volume, which is obviously not what is needed.

I think you should take the volume controllers out of the system and just use the different taps on each speaker to set that particular speaker's volume, and that will give you what you want. That is the way it is supposed to be done. I think the volume controllers should not be there and are causing problems with the amplifier volume overall.

Put some music through the system at a moderate volume, and try connecting the tap selector wire on each speaker to the various taps one at a time until you get the relative volume you want for that location. That is the way it is done. Ignore the "wattage" or any other labeling.

The whole idea of this type of system is that each speaker can be set at a different volume relative to the others by using the different taps on the speaker transformer, to accommodate the volume needed at that location. The main volume control, of course, raises or lowers the volume of the whole system, but the speakers selected to be louder will still be louder relative to the speakers selected by tap to not be so loud.

Once you get the volume controllers out of the system and get each speaker tapped to set its desired volume, you can then see if the amp still clips or distorts, or whether it will give you enough overall volume. 200 watts for 18 speakers is only 11 watts (max) per speaker, which may just not be enough.

It may be that you need a bigger amplifier to drive 18 speakers to the desired overall volume. 18 speakers are probably too many for that amplifier to drive. I think a 70V amplifier rated for 500 watts or more would be more appropriate.

Check out the Crown CDi 1000, that might be better for what you have.

Last edited by commsysman; 10-28-2016 at 09:57 AM.
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