Does Yamaha R N-602 falls in Audiophile category? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 63 Old 02-10-2017, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Jady Jenkins View Post
Buying high-end makes the most sense, on all levels, provided you have the cash to make the first buy in - which most do, either as a new or used appliance, if you will.
In your opinion and perhaps experience, if you will. Many do not have the cash, if you will.
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post #32 of 63 Old 02-10-2017, 12:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
In your opinion and perhaps experience, if you will. Many do not have the cash, if you will.
I think you meant to say: In your opinion and perhaps experience, if you will. But in my own, many do not have the cash, if you will.

If you meant to word it this way, then Yes, I will...
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post #33 of 63 Old 02-10-2017, 12:57 PM
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You are always correct. If you will.
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post #34 of 63 Old 02-10-2017, 02:02 PM
 
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You are always correct. If you will.
I will!
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post #35 of 63 Old 02-10-2017, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post
Unfortunately, the "audiophile" state of mind seems inevitably to involve higher-end / expensive / exotic gear. People who enjoy great audio from good-quality, reasonably-priced gear (almost) never refer to themselves as "audiophiles", even though their love-of-sound cred is just as valid.
I don't believe that the word "audiophile" necessitates the use of exotic gear nor does Webster's. I hate the word audiophile also (even if by any definition I am one) if there is a better word in English let me know what it is.
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post #36 of 63 Old 02-10-2017, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Jady Jenkins View Post
Buying high-end makes the most sense, on all levels, provided you have the cash to make the first buy in - which most do, !
Its blanket statements like this that make me shake my head. Particularly when increase in performance per added dollar decreases dramatically once you enter the middle range of equipment.

There is no rule that applies universally. Everyone's situation is different. "most do" is an assumption you'd be hard pressed to back up.

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post #37 of 63 Old 02-10-2017, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Russ69
I don't believe that the word "audiophile" necessitates the use of exotic gear ...
I agree that one can be an audiophile without buying higher-end / expensive / exotic gear. Generally speaking, "audiophiles" don't seem to think so.

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... I hate the word audiophile also (even if by any definition I am one) if there is a better word in English let me know what it is.
Audiophile is a good word - I just think it's overused, misused and abused.

IMO and YMMV.
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post #38 of 63 Old 02-10-2017, 08:57 PM
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I find the idea of buying audio gear for "resale value" very entertaining!

I'll use an example. I own a 1980 Pioneer SX steries receiver with 45 watts per channel. It was given to me by a friend years ago complete with the $359.95 price tag he paid. I used that thing until 2014 when it was retired because the power supply was getting out of linearity so needed recapping. Can't complain, over 33 years of use. If I like, I can recap it and refurb it to stock condition but alas, I have no nostalgia gene.

My 1999 Onkyo 5.1 receiver blew a power supply last year--for some reason it still played tunes for many years even though it was "obsolete". It would flat out murder the Pioneer for features and power.

For an "audiophile" the Onkyo would be laughed at but the Pioneer silver face SX series with the wood sides are made out of magic, pixie dust and "highly reguarded".

In reality, if you buy audio gear for "resale value"... and purchase really expensive stuff to get that--better go back to math class. It goes along the lines of buying a laptop and pondering "resale value"... good luck with that!

It would not surprise me to see Class D chip amps produce 100 watts per channel into 8 ohms at really low distortion levels show up in the next few years. 11 channel AVRs with $100 worth of chip amps inside--with "audiophile" specs. You honestly think your Uber Tastic 5000 2 channel amp with worse specs will somehow be desireable? If so, I have a 2011 desktop computer I'll sell ya for $1,000. Then again, people will pay big bucks for a Singe Ended Triode ultra-crap tube amp so what do I know?

If you sound is not "audiophile" enough for you, time to go speaker shopping, room treatments and PEQ while you revise your setup.
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post #39 of 63 Old 02-11-2017, 02:06 AM
 
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Originally Posted by DanPackMan View Post
A note on "losing resale value". The most you can lose on the OP product is $600 (or less if you pay less). You can stand to lose just as much or even a lot more on a very expensive 'audiophile' product, dollar wise.
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Originally Posted by Paraneer View Post
That's pretty old vintage gear. I am talking much more used, modern high fidelity gear. And of course resale shops can't be bothered - they take in stuff for free. Did you try and sell in the classifieds on vintage audio sites? On Ebay? To a lot of vintage enthusiasts, some of these pieces may be coveted.


Yeah, your right. It can lose all its value. Similar to a typical AVR that becomes obsolete when the newest audio codec is introduced. A quality integrated Hi Fi amp like a McIntosh will easily retain it's value, maybe by as much as 50% or more. Try and find a used MA6500 that retailed at $4500 ten years ago. If you do, you'll pay around 3 grand. An MA6300 that was $4000 five years ago are routinely selling at $2700-$3000. And they are not sold on Craigslist either.

Again not bashing the OP's Yamaha or any AVR - they serve a need but being mass produced and mainstream, will quickly lose their value. Unlike true audiophile pieces where there is a vibrant used market. So no need to argue, each serves its purpose. But don't deny facts and pretend that audiophile pieces will not retain their value. Go out and see for yourself.
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Originally Posted by Jady Jenkins View Post
I have pieces that sold for $1400.00 40-years ago. I see the combo, selling used for $1100.00 on canuckaudiomart.com - high-end Sansui integrated and matching tuner...

Edit: Cost of ownership = $7.50, per year, if i choose to sell these items this week. WOW!
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Originally Posted by DanPackMan View Post
Right, instead of losing $500 with the OP item, you lose well over $1000 going with the high end stuff you speak of. Its simply not a good argument for buying high end stuff.
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Originally Posted by Jady Jenkins View Post
Could it be that you have failed to convert the losses to percentages?

High end stuff as you call it retains far more residual value.
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Originally Posted by dmb12679 View Post
AVR's value fall hard and fast. I just bought a used $3500(2003) avr for $150 mint dlvd. No HDMI. can't read latest audio format. I'd like an example of one over the last 20 that has held it's value compared to original cost. I'm talking multi channel AVR's


Mcintosh is mcintosh, I will not invite them to this party


2 Channel stereo receivers, and 2-7 channel power amplifiers hold their value quite well although rarely sell for what they cost new. The 150-200wpc vintage 2 channel is selling like crazy, but those models are few and far between(I'd love to have one). The standard 40-70 wpc are beautiful imo and can be had for a very fair price.


I still think with what op is looking for he's better of buying a midline AVR from a major brand with pre-outs.
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Originally Posted by Paraneer View Post
I'm not arguing friend, but it seems that you are.

I never advocated buying high end gear. I did not bash anyone buying mainstream, entry level gear. I simply addressed the OP's question which was - Does the Yamaha RN-602 fall into the audiophile category? I gave him a blunt and honest answer - it does not. I gave him a big reason why also - it will not retain its value as an audiophile caliber piece will.

But most importantly, I also told him none of this makes it a bad product. I also said, it may be the right piece of gear for him. Reread my initial post.

You may not like the fact that a high end amp will retain 50% or more of its value while entry level mainstream stuff will lose 90% or more. But its still a fact. They are two different markets.
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Originally Posted by DanPackMan View Post
No. Because $ matter. Are you implying its better to lose more money because it is a larger percentage of a much larger total? I am explicitly saying it isn't.

Not arguing with anyone, just pointing out the fallacy of the residual value argument as a reason to consider buying expensive gear va lower cost gear. Now, if you are already intent on buying expensive high end gear it certainly is good to get as much back as you can in the end and consider those products with higher resale value history.
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Originally Posted by Jady Jenkins View Post
You don't lose anything if you don't sell either - but like your point thats not the point either.

The point is higher end items don't typically lose 90% of their value they rarely lose even 50%. In most instances they retain between 60-75%, from new. Some keep increasing with age, some out past their original MSRP.

However, If you buy them used, you can save the deprecation, and often swing a profit if you decide to sell them, a year or 3 later.

In my case, I bought my gear used, for less than I can sell it today, in other words, if I decide to sell it today, I will in fact profit around 25%.

Now holding to your argument, lets see how things reason through.

One buys a top of the line commodity AVR or Receiver for lets say $2000.00, one year later it's worth maybe $1000, two years later maybe $500-650.00, three years under $500.00, four years even less, and out past 5-years maybe $250-300.00. Total loss if one sell it at 5-year mark over $1600.00.

Buy any amplifying high end device for $2000.00 and at the 5-year mark and you will be able to garner no less than 50%. Max loss if sold $1000.00, now if they hang on to it longer, the value may in fact increase, just as my Sansui items have and continue to do.

Percentage is linear friend, making the conversation about residual value and not whatever your attempting to put forth.

If we are to worry about lose, it makes the most sense to buy used, high end equipment; as the losses are less, and the performance typically superior, but never less!
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Originally Posted by DanPackMan View Post
^I agree used often is better value in the long run, but it hold for low end stuff as well. You can buy used low end stuff for next to nothing and essentially have next to nothing to lose.

I don't agree that, for new equipment, losing $1000 is better than losing $500 not matter what the percentages are. "percentage is linear" is both obvious and irrelevant to my point.
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Originally Posted by Jady Jenkins View Post
Oh boy,,,

If I bought a new or used, $2000.00 high-end something or other and used it for say three years and lost $1000.00 my cost of ownership would be $333.33, per year

Inversely, if i bought a new or used, $2000.00 commodity something or other and used it for say three years and lost $1500 - $1800.00 my cost of ownership would be $500 - $600.00, per year.

If you bought a $1000.00 new or used commodity something or other and used it for three years and lost $800-900.00 your cost of ownership would be $266.66 - $300.00, per year

If your cost of ownership is likely to be more, or at best essentially the same at the end of three years, to that of a high-end device, why wouldn't you go for the Mercedes, if you will and leave the Ford, at the dealership?

Buying high-end makes the most sense, on all levels, provided you have the cash to make the first buy in - which most do, either as a new or used appliance, if you will.

I always have and always will buy used high end over new commodity goods... After all, music first, right!
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Originally Posted by DanPackMan View Post
Its blanket statements like this that make me shake my head. Particularly when increase in performance per added dollar decreases dramatically once you enter the middle range of equipment.

There is no rule that applies universally. Everyone's situation is different. "most do" is an assumption you'd be hard pressed to back up.
It was a statement presented after a long series of disclosures, and calculations, one meant to service as a contextually accurate summary of what I have presented.

It was not offered up, as a stand alone statement, out of thin air. It was rather, wrapped in the context of my statements and that of others noted above, making it the bed, and not the blanket.
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post #40 of 63 Old 02-11-2017, 03:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
Why worry about "resale value"? Buy what suits your needs, budget and be happy for a few years. Once it dies or you decide to upgrade, pass it along to a needy kid, friend, or neighbor.
I wouldn't worry about not being considered an audiophile because I purchased XYZ product.
I agree. Audiophile gear should not be judged by retention of resale value, buy by ability to accurately reproduce sound. There is plenty of good gear out there, particularly amps, that doesn't have to be in the 'audiophile category' cost wise to sound good. Like I said in a previous post, I have audiophile speakers, a McIntosh is not required to make them sound good. I use an AVR. Paid around 800 for a 3311ci new. (If you shop around you can get great deals on new stuff in the AVR world like last years closeout models etc.) Having it for now almost 6 years, I could care less if I can only get say 200, or even 100 for it. With my speakers it sounds great.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a Macintosh. but in terms of point of diminishing returns, I spent the money on my speakers. I'd recommend the OP or anyone else do the same.
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post #41 of 63 Old 02-11-2017, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jady Jenkins View Post
It was a statement presented after a long series of disclosures, and calculations, one meant to service as a contextually accurate summary of what I have presented.

It was not offered up, as a stand alone statement, out of thin air. It was rather, wrapped in the context of my statements and that of others noted above, making it the bed, and not the blanket.
Sorry, but none of those tells us "most do". Your anecdotes are just that and nothing more.
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post #42 of 63 Old 02-11-2017, 01:40 PM
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Audiophile Equipment has not been defined for the purposes of this thread.

I would say the Yamaha RN602 Network Receiver fall somewhat in the middle of consumer audio equipment and represents very high value. For the lower end of Audiophile Equipment, plan on spending in the range of $2000 to $4000 to duplicated the Yamaha RN602.

Here is a thread from another forum where people who actually have the Yamaha RN602 discuss it, you might find some valuable information there -

https://www.avforums.com/threads/new...eiver.1984978/

Most seem very satisfied, and those who are slightly dissatisfied can only get the features and quality they want by spending considerably more money.

As to Stereo vs AVR, at a fixed amount of money, I think you get more and a better amp in Stereo, but for that fixed amount, you get a butt-load of features in the AVR.

There is on one absolute answer to which is best. If you value all the added feature, which are not free by the way, and we are talking about spending a FIXED amount of money, then the AVR has some appeal even for Stereo use.

However, there are a group of us who would rather concentrate our money on specifically what we need done, and we prefer a Stereo system. My stereo bring both the Thunder and the Lightening for Movie sound tracks, and provides me with hours of fatigue free Music listening.

I'm fond of saying -

If you want a Music System, then get a Music System, meaning a Stereo.

If you want a Movie System, then get a Movie System, meaning Surround Sound.


Myself I would rather concentrate my precious little money into 2 amp channels rather that 5, 7, 9, or 11. Those extra amps aren't free. And I would rather concentrate my precious little money into 2 good speakers, rather than 6 or 8 so-so speakers. But, that's just me. I have no quarrel with those who choose AV Surround. But, unless I win the Lottery, that's not a road I am going down.

The Yamaha RN602 is a good consumer grade full featured Stereo amp with a very decent amount of power.

As an alternative to that, with near identical features, but 120w/ch, take a look at the Harman Kardon HK3770 ($450).

By the way, I have a Yamaha RX-797 Stereo Receiver, it sounds fine.

Steve/bluewizard
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post #43 of 63 Old 02-11-2017, 06:27 PM
 
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Sorry, but none of those tells us "most do". Your anecdotes are just that and nothing more.
hmm, I shared a fact. I bought my gear used, over 20-years ago, and today, I can sell it for more than I paid.

My setting is a common one, which is easy to search out for yourself, by visiting the link I present earlier on. Our you can trust me and the other posting within this thread which have strived to help you come to this realization.

As for the rest of my comments, they were in direct response to your anecdotal conjecture, to them, and for them; I say Ditto, to you.

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post #44 of 63 Old 02-11-2017, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by bluewizard View Post
Audiophile Equipment has not been defined for the purposes of this thread.

I would say the Yamaha RN602 Network Receiver fall somewhat in the middle of consumer audio equipment and represents very high value. For the lower end of Audiophile Equipment, plan on spending in the range of $2000 to $4000 to duplicated the Yamaha RN602.

Here is a thread from another forum where people who actually have the Yamaha RN602 discuss it, you might find some valuable information there -

https://www.avforums.com/threads/new...eiver.1984978/

Most seem very satisfied, and those who are slightly dissatisfied can only get the features and quality they want by spending considerably more money.

As to Stereo vs AVR, at a fixed amount of money, I think you get more and a better amp in Stereo, but for that fixed amount, you get a butt-load of features in the AVR.

There is on one absolute answer to which is best. If you value all the added feature, which are not free by the way, and we are talking about spending a FIXED amount of money, then the AVR has some appeal even for Stereo use.

However, there are a group of us who would rather concentrate our money on specifically what we need done, and we prefer a Stereo system. My stereo bring both the Thunder and the Lightening for Movie sound tracks, and provides me with hours of fatigue free Music listening.

I'm fond of saying -

If you want a Music System, then get a Music System, meaning a Stereo.

If you want a Movie System, then get a Movie System, meaning Surround Sound.


Myself I would rather concentrate my precious little money into 2 amp channels rather that 5, 7, 9, or 11. Those extra amps aren't free. And I would rather concentrate my precious little money into 2 good speakers, rather than 6 or 8 so-so speakers. But, that's just me. I have no quarrel with those who choose AV Surround. But, unless I win the Lottery, that's not a road I am going down.

The Yamaha RN602 is a good consumer grade full featured Stereo amp with a very decent amount of power.

As an alternative to that, with near identical features, but 120w/ch, take a look at the Harman Kardon HK3770 ($450).

By the way, I have a Yamaha RX-797 Stereo Receiver, it sounds fine.

Steve/bluewizard

Great post Steve. I would stear clear of the HK as there are leaving/have left the market on AVR's and Amps, and I can tell you first hand their CS is terrible, if you can even reach them concerning an avr or amp. Any other recomendations for the OP in that price range?

Marantz SR6010 -- Marantz MM7025 -- Marantz UD5007
Klipsch RF-7ii's - RC-64ii - RB-51ii's - RS-42ii's - R-112sw(x2)

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post #45 of 63 Old 02-11-2017, 07:20 PM
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What's up guys,
I wanted to share my personal audiophile journey, as I started with testing out 4 $500- $600 AVRs on one Black Friday weekend, and after auditioning them in my home and bringing them back for return as open box (lol), I ended up keeping Denon avr1913, I believe it cost me $375 with discounts at Best Buy. I used it for about 3 years with PSB T5 towers in a complete 5.1 set up and then sold the receiver for $175.

This past year the upgrade bug got to me and I ended up upgrading the whole system. I read lots of different reviews and threads here as well, but I knew I needed a all in one solution to watch movies/Tv, as well as have a great sounding 2.0 system that serves my needs. I looked around Craigslist and eBay mostly and piece by piece assembled a nice "pre-loved" system that sounds AmAziNgG as a stereo system and as a home theater that sounds more accurate then some movie theaters.

My personal recommendation is to judge the receiver by its weight. The heavier the receiver the better power supply/transformer it has and so it pumps more power into your speakers.

My NAD beast is at 46lbs I think. The $600 Denon was something like 17-19lbs lol

I use my MacBook Pro as audio source for streaming and as a CD player (for now at least, it works excellent with a DAC, but I know it's my weak point right now)

This is what I got for my money...I think I did good...for the next couple of years until next bug

NAD T 775 HD2 - $3,000 MSRP - $500 Paid* A STEAL!
130W per 2ch Stereo - 100W per 7ch

HiFimeDIY USB DAC - $115 - AMAZING buy for listening music from your laptop.

Speakers 2002-2007 Production
B&W DM604 S3 - $1,500 MSRP - $600

B&W DM601 S3 - $450 MSRP
B&W LCR600 S3 - $500 MSRP
B&W ASW650 Sub 12" - $700 MSRP
$600 Paid total

Monster Power - $600 MSRP - $125
HTS 5100 MKII

Total MSRP $6,865
Total Paid $1,940

Super happy with the set up.

Cheers




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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post #46 of 63 Old 02-11-2017, 07:26 PM
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Great post Steve. I would stear clear of the HK as there are leaving/have left the market on AVR's and Amps, and I can tell you first hand their CS is terrible, if you can even reach them concerning an avr or amp. Any other recommendations for the OP in that price range?
OK, a no on the HK3770 then. Though a bargain is a bargain.

If the Original Poster wants built-in Network Streaming, then the only two that come to mind are the Yamaha RN602 and the very similar Pioneer SX30, both similarly priced.

The other alternative is, at considerably more cost, get an Integrated Amp and add an external Network Streaming Device, but I see that costing closer to $1000.

You can only do what you can do within the range of your budget. There are dozens of better amps that I want, but they are substantially out of my price range.

Now, if a person is more prone to Internet Streaming with little or no content stored locally, a connection to Streaming Services using the Google ChromeCast-Audio can be done for a little as $30. I believe, though I have no direct experience, that Google Music will copy, or duplicate, all the music you have on your computer or home network, and store it on Google Music. That gives you access via the Internet to all the Music you own. I'm not clear about the details on this aspect, but this is the impression I was given.

So,how much Streaming and what type of Streaming capability does a given person need? That will direct him to the kind of Streaming device he needs.

But more standard and more common Streaming Devices tend to run near $500 for just that device. Combine that with $500 for an amp, and you have $1000. Now for those who don't have $1000 to spend, hard to do better than the Yamaha RN602 or the Pioneer SX30.

Are these perfect amps ... NO. But increase the budget by a factor of FOUR or SIX, and then we can start talking about perfection.

Expectations have to be realistic relative to the budget. And for that budget, the RN602 and the SX30 are pretty nice.

Steve/bluewizard
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Originally Posted by michaellsv View Post
What's up guys,
I wanted to share my personal audiophile journey, as I started with testing out 4 $500- $600 AVRs on one Black Friday weekend, and after auditioning them in my home and bringing them back for return as open box (lol), I ended up keeping Denon avr1913, I believe it cost me $375 with discounts at Best Buy. I used it for about 3 years with PSB T5 towers in a complete 5.1 set up and then sold the receiver for $175.

This past year the upgrade bug got to me and I ended up upgrading the whole system. I read lots of different reviews and threads here as well, but I knew I needed a all in one solution to watch movies/Tv, as well as have a great sounding 2.0 system that serves my needs. I looked around Craigslist and eBay mostly and piece by piece assembled a nice "pre-loved" system that sounds AmAziNgG as a stereo system and as a home theater that sounds more accurate then some movie theaters.

My personal recommendation is to judge the receiver by its weight. The heavier the receiver the better power supply/transformer it has and so it pumps more power into your speakers.

My NAD beast is at 46lbs I think. The $600 Denon was something like 17-19lbs lol

I use my MacBook Pro as audio source for streaming and as a CD player (for now at least, it works excellent with a DAC, but I know it's my weak point right now)

This is what I got for my money...I think I did good...for the next couple of years until next bug

NAD T 775 HD2 - $3,000 MSRP - $500 Paid* A STEAL!
130W per 2ch Stereo - 100W per 7ch

HiFimeDIY USB DAC - $115 - AMAZING buy for listening music from your laptop.

Speakers 2002-2007 Production
B&W DM604 S3 - $1,500 MSRP - $600

B&W DM601 S3 - $450 MSRP
B&W LCR600 S3 - $500 MSRP
B&W ASW650 Sub 12" - $700 MSRP
$600 Paid total

Monster Power - $600 MSRP - $125
HTS 5100 MKII

Total MSRP $6,865
Total Paid $1,940

Super happy with the set up.

Cheers




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WOW - Nicely done, thanks for sharing!
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post #48 of 63 Old 02-13-2017, 09:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you all of you friends for your views.

I auditioned R N602 for the sound quality. I compared it with mono block amplifiers coupled to high end speakers. Sound quality was almost same if not better.

One question remains why AVR can not give same sound quality that of stereo receivers?
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Stereo receivers are a simple design with one purpose that manufacturers can focus their costs one task for the most part.


AVR's are pretty much amplified computers at this point. Look at the back of an AVR compared to stereo receiver. Probably 20x the amount of connections, different kinds of connections, up to 7-9-11 amplifiers. There is a lot going on in an AVR compared to the stereo receivers.
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post #50 of 63 Old 02-13-2017, 03:42 PM
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Resale value is a dream.

I have vintage Scott, HK, Pioneer, Dynaco and Kenwood gear looking for homes. Resale shops couldn't be bothered taking it off my hands.
No one wants to buy "old stuff", no matter the price. Even if it's free.
Seriously, Ratman nailed it. The only real market for used or vintage gear is in hobbyist who actually want old stuff. Most folks don't. Just check out the local thrift shops. There you will find all kinds of equipment for under $10 per unit and people selling on Craig's list are looking for more than what something is really worth or a sucker to take their old stuff off their hands. Nothing i've witnessed since getting into music in the 1980's indicates anything in audio holds value. Nothing.

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post #51 of 63 Old 02-13-2017, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Pacodutaco View Post
Seriously, Ratman nailed it. The only real market for used or vintage gear is in hobbyist who actually want old stuff. Most folks don't. Just check out the local thrift shops. There you will find all kinds of equipment for under $10 per unit and people selling on Craig's list are looking for more than what something is really worth or a sucker to take their old stuff off their hands. Nothing i've witnessed since getting into music in the 1980's indicates anything in audio holds value. Nothing.

I kicked around the idea of getting what was one of my first receivers and the prices soured me on the idea a bit.

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/marantz-2270

Edit: I do watch local Goodwill stores. I try to stop at ones in high end, old money neighborhoods figuring that is where most of the 'bucket kicking' is going on and my best chances of finding decent vintage, but I don't find a thing worth a damn. Where are you finding this stuff?

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Thumbs up

I've had some good luck in selling some of my old gear and making a profit from when I purchased them. Bought a Forte 4A 50wpc pure Class A amp for $499 and sold it about a year and a half ago for $650. Bought a Yamaha PF-8oo TT before the TT craze for $299. Sold it for $499. Bought 2 modified Threshold T-50's from a former Threshold executive for $499 ea. These I'm not selling.
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post #53 of 63 Old 02-13-2017, 06:35 PM
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Seriously, Ratman nailed it. The only real market for used or vintage gear is in hobbyist who actually want old stuff. Most folks don't. Just check out the local thrift shops.
Sorry but you are confusing desirable vintage with worthless vintage and then used high end modern.

Desirable vintage is the 70's era silver faced, mainly Japanese, gear that is selling for crazy money. Technics SL-1200MKII's that retailed for $350 in the late 70's routinely sell for twice this amount. Same with Marantz receivers from this era with the gyro tuning knobs. More than what they were originally bought for as Scott found out below.

Then these same manufacturers started to off shore their manufacturing out of Japan during the 80's and 90's producing black plastic crap. These units are the worthless vintage ones.

Now there is also used, modern, high end 2 channel gear (late 90's through present) and this was the gear I alluded to earlier in this thread that easily holds 50% or more of its value. This market is alive and well and almost 100% 2 channel gear. Just go to Audiogon and USAudio Mart to see what brands I am talking about. And the asking prices. Its for real as I have bought used gear on both these sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
I kicked around the idea of getting what was one of my first receivers and the prices soured me on the idea a bit.
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/marantz-2270

I do watch local Goodwill stores. I try to stop at ones in high end, old money neighborhoods figuring that is where most of the 'bucket kicking' is going on and my best chances of finding decent vintage, but I don't find a thing worth a damn. Where are you finding this stuff?
I would not bother with any Goodwill thrift store. You're right - you won't find a damn thing. They sift through all the donations and put the better gear on their online auction site. It seems that even they know how to use the internet to their advantage too.
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post #54 of 63 Old 02-13-2017, 07:29 PM
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Sorry but you are confusing desirable vintage with worthless vintage and then used high end modern.

Desirable vintage is the 70's era silver faced, mainly Japanese, gear that is selling for crazy money. Technics SL-1200MKII's that retailed for $350 in the late 70's routinely sell for twice this amount. Same with Marantz receivers from this era with the gyro tuning knobs. More than what they were originally bought for as Scott found out below.

Then these same manufacturers started to off shore their manufacturing out of Japan during the 80's and 90's producing black plastic crap. These units are the worthless vintage ones.

Now there is also used, modern, high end 2 channel gear (late 90's through present) and this was the gear I alluded to earlier in this thread that easily holds 50% or more of its value. This market is alive and well and almost 100% 2 channel gear. Just go to Audiogon and USAudio Mart to see what brands I am talking about. And the asking prices. Its for real as I have bought used gear on both these sites.


I would not bother with any Goodwill thrift store. You're right - you won't find a damn thing. They sift through all the donations and put the better gear on their online auction site. It seems that even they know how to use the internet to their advantage too.

I hit three of them tonight, since I last posted. Figured the adult kids cleaning out the elderly parents' house over the weekend and off to Goodwill they go, but absolutely nothing. All junk including every single LP that they had. Talk about destroyed.
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post #55 of 63 Old 02-13-2017, 07:51 PM
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You mean you couldn't find one of these Scott?

https://www.shopgoodwill.com/auction...-36960912.html

13 bids so far and look at the current one. Not bad for a 30 wpc stereo receiver from 1974 that retailed for $349.00. Why that's way more than 125 wpc AVR will fetch that was bought two years ago. And being a bid, that means someone is going to buy it. And yet some continue to say stereo gear doesn't hold its value???

Again brother, don't waste your time going into the Goodwill stores unless you want some used dishes or kitchenware. Stuff like in the attached link goes right to their website.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paraneer View Post
You mean you couldn't find one of these Scott?

https://www.shopgoodwill.com/auction...-36960912.html

13 bids so far and look at the current one. Not bad for a 30 wpc stereo receiver from 1974 that retailed for $349.00. Why that's way more than 125 wpc AVR will fetch that was bought two years ago. And being a bid, that means someone is going to buy it. And yet some continue to say stereo gear doesn't hold its value???

Again brother, don't waste your time going into the Goodwill stores unless you want some used dishes or kitchenware. Stuff like in the attached link goes right to their website.
Now that is a classic. I better up my content insurance at the cottage.
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post #57 of 63 Old 02-13-2017, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paraneer View Post
You mean you couldn't find one of these Scott?

https://www.shopgoodwill.com/auction...-36960912.html

13 bids so far and look at the current one. Not bad for a 30 wpc stereo receiver from 1974 that retailed for $349.00. Why that's way more than 125 wpc AVR will fetch that was bought two years ago. And being a bid, that means someone is going to buy it. And yet some continue to say stereo gear doesn't hold its value???

Again brother, don't waste your time going into the Goodwill stores unless you want some used dishes or kitchenware. Stuff like in the attached link goes right to their website.

"You mean you couldn't find one of these Scott?"


Very close. I was looking for a 2270 from around the same era. I didn't really expect to find something like that as I was just curious what I'd find. I didn't know that Goodwill had an action site
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post #58 of 63 Old 02-13-2017, 09:16 PM
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I always see amps on ebay from Seatle goodwill. Normally high dollar used amps sold as "plugs in light comes on, not tested" meaning take a chanceit might work we can't hook it up, but it's rotel, krell, etc higher end stuff.
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I always see amps on ebay from Seatle goodwill. Normally high dollar used amps sold as "plugs in light comes on, not tested" meaning take a chanceit might work we can't hook it up, but it's rotel, krell, etc higher end stuff.
Krell, is that for real! I need to pay more attention to Goodwill.

Have you ever pulled the trigger?
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post #60 of 63 Old 02-13-2017, 10:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmb12679 View Post
Stereo receivers are a simple design with one purpose that manufacturers can focus their costs one task for the most part.


AVR's are pretty much amplified computers at this point. Look at the back of an AVR compared to stereo receiver. Probably 20x the amount of connections, different kinds of connections, up to 7-9-11 amplifiers. There is a lot going on in an AVR compared to the stereo receivers.
I suspect. In AVR all digital signal i.e. optical, coaxial and HDMI are passing through integrated DSP (for D to A conversion). There is no separate route even after pressing "Pure Direct" button.

This complexity (DSP) might be muddling purity of the signal. In stereo receiver there is no DSP.
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