Transitioning from a reciever to a 2CH setup - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 22 Old 02-13-2017, 08:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Transitioning from a reciever to a 2CH setup

I have a pair of speakers that I'm pretty happy with (Magnepan 1.7i) , presently running off of a Marantz SR5010 home theater receiver. I have briefly used a 5.0 setup (using a 2ndhand Magnepan MGCC3 for the center and some old Polks for the surrounds) but have decided that I really don't want to allocate the space to anything beyond stereo setup, but would like to invest in a much better DAC/amp for music, movies, and games. While I've been pretty happy with the speakers, they aren't exactly living up to their full potential (when I compare it to the setup that I originally demoed them on in the audio shop).
Though the kicker here is that I still want to be able to switch between a large number of devices, so I'm a bit confused as to how to start moving things over to a proper 2CH setup. I play a lot of games, and thus have several systems, in addition to my dedicated bluray player and PC.

So, for a multi-device setup, how does one handle the switching between many inputs? I believe that most of my game systems have optical out, and the PC could use USB, but I still have a bunch of HDMI video sources (a few of which are 4k/60hz) each with separate audio-out.
Additionally, I need to take care of video switching before the TV, as I'm using a single-input wall run from the receiver to the TV.

I'll separate my search for an amp from the switching question.
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post #2 of 22 Old 02-14-2017, 04:17 AM
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There are no two channel amps (separates or integrateds) with HDMI. Why would there be? Audio only components do not have to carry video signals.

Your right also about not getting the most out of you Maggies. They thrive on high power, something very few, if any, AVR's can give you. So here are your options...

1. Use an AVR that has L/R preouts and a dedicated power amp for the Maggies. The AVR could also be a pre/pro if you wish. Use the AVR in 2 channel mode.
2. Use an integrated amp that has the balls to push the Maggies and also has a built-in DAC. And if it doesn't, add an outboard DAC.
3. If number 2 above is chosen, HDMI direct to the TV and digital coax/optical/usb from multiple sources into the DAC and switch between audio sources from there.

Hope this helps and good luck.

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post #3 of 22 Old 02-14-2017, 05:41 AM
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My Yamaha 3050 has pre outs. I use a separate old Audire amp for my front left and right. I have a center like my right and left but could have survived easily just skipping the center speaker and using left and right. The yamaha can run on stereo mode and drive the Audire using the volume control of the Yamaha. I do not usually use it for music since my speakers on the opposite end of the room are better for music and have all my ancillary equipment (Amps, preamp phono preamp, tape decks dat, cd etc). I would just get a good amp for the maggies and run the receiver in stereo mode. Worst case just add a good preamp and dac or maybe an Oppo 105 if the receiver does not do what you want. In either case you will have a good amp for the speakers.

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post #4 of 22 Old 02-14-2017, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsilver View Post
I have a pair of speakers that I'm pretty happy with (Magnepan 1.7i) , presently running off of a Marantz SR5010 home theater receiver. I have briefly used a 5.0 setup (using a 2ndhand Magnepan MGCC3 for the center and some old Polks for the surrounds) but have decided that I really don't want to allocate the space to anything beyond stereo setup, but would like to invest in a much better DAC/amp for music, movies, and games. While I've been pretty happy with the speakers, they aren't exactly living up to their full potential (when I compare it to the setup that I originally demoed them on in the audio shop).
Though the kicker here is that I still want to be able to switch between a large number of devices, so I'm a bit confused as to how to start moving things over to a proper 2CH setup. I play a lot of games, and thus have several systems, in addition to my dedicated bluray player and PC.

So, for a multi-device setup, how does one handle the switching between many inputs? I believe that most of my game systems have optical out, and the PC could use USB, but I still have a bunch of HDMI video sources (a few of which are 4k/60hz) each with separate audio-out.
Additionally, I need to take care of video switching before the TV, as I'm using a single-input wall run from the receiver to the TV.

I'll separate my search for an amp from the switching question.

I would get an OPPO BDP-105D, and use it as a preamplifier. It is available from Amazon for $1500.

It is not only a CD/SACD/DVD player, but has analog and digital inputs and HDMI inputs and outputs, and a remote with volume control.

It also has balanced and unbalanced analog audio outputs.

I think this would solve your problem.

Its outputs can be connected to power amplifiers; 2 or 3 or 5.

The Vincent SP331 power amp would be perfect for driving the Mag 1.7s.

It is only $1500, and has plenty of power and sounds like amps costing 3 times as much; an amazing amplifier.

Last edited by commsysman; 02-14-2017 at 08:08 AM.
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post #5 of 22 Old 02-14-2017, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by commsysman View Post
I would get an OPPO BDP-105D, and use it as a preamplifier. It is available from Amazon for $1500.

It is not only a CD/SACD/DVD player, but has analog and digital inputs and HDMI inputs and outputs, and a remote with volume control.

It also has balanced and unbalanced analog audio outputs.

I think this would solve your problem.

Its outputs can be connected to power amplifiers; 2 or 3 or 5.

The Vincent SP331 power amp would be perfect for driving the Mag 1.7s.

It is only $1500, and has plenty of power and sounds like amps costing 3 times as much; an amazing amplifier.
Yeah. I've been thinking about getting a high-end Oppo for a while. It would probably have to wait until they had a UHD version, though.
I assume that I could take care of the multiple source issue with an HDMI switch box (any recommended ones for 4k60? The more inputs the better) run the HDMI out to the TV, and run analog out to a proper power amp.

Last edited by gsilver; 02-14-2017 at 09:02 AM.
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post #6 of 22 Old 02-14-2017, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post
I would get an OPPO BDP-105D, and use it as a preamplifier. It is available from Amazon for $1500.

It is not only a CD/SACD/DVD player, but has analog and digital inputs and HDMI inputs and outputs, and a remote with volume control.

It also has balanced and unbalanced analog audio outputs.

I think this would solve your problem.

Its outputs can be connected to power amplifiers; 2 or 3 or 5.

The Vincent SP331 power amp would be perfect for driving the Mag 1.7s.

It is only $1500, and has plenty of power and sounds like amps costing 3 times as much; an amazing amplifier.

"The Vincent SP331 power amp would be perfect for driving the Mag 1.7s. "


That would work very nicely

Hybrid vacuum tube / solid-state power amplifier
Input stage: 2 6N16 tubes per channel
Output stage: 12 Toshiba transistors per channel
Oversize toroidal core transformer of 1,000-watts x 2
80,000 µF per channel power reserves
Two pairs of high-quality speaker binding posts
Frequency range: 10 Hz – 20 kHz, +/- 0.5 dB
Output power 8 Ohm: 2 x 150 Watt
Output power 4 Ohm: 2 x 300 Watt
Input sensitivity: 1.2 V
Total harmonic distortion: < 0.1 % max. (1 kHz, 1 Watt)
Signal-to-Noise Ratio: > 90 dB
Input Impedance: 47 k Ohm
Inputs: 2 x RCA
Outputs: 4 x 2 speaker terminals
Dimensions: 17" wide, 6.3" high, 17.7" deep
Weight: 41.5 lbs.
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post #7 of 22 Old 02-14-2017, 09:34 AM
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There actually are integrated amps with hdmi but most are very expensive. Krell makes one that is near $5k and Nad has a few that are cheaper. Another Option is lyngdorfs integrated. It has room correction as well as hdmi.

I have a pc that is hdmi to the tv and a streaming box that connects to the tv as well via hdmi and optical out from the tv to the integrated amp for audio from it. The pc I use USB audio.

Sounds like you may have a few devices more but it might still work with one of the options I listed or minus the hdmi and have a much larger pool to choose from that have only USB and optical input.
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post #8 of 22 Old 02-14-2017, 09:49 AM
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Your Marantz appears to have pre-outs for an external amp. I would try adding an stereo amp first. What is your budget?
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post #9 of 22 Old 02-14-2017, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Your Marantz appears to have pre-outs for an external amp. I would try adding an stereo amp first. What is your budget?
I'd like to keep the whole setup under $3k, but I'm also a bit space limited in my component cabinet. I doubt that I'd be able to fit both an external amp and the receiver in the cabinet, but a slim device (like the Oppo player) and a power amp should work just fine.
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post #10 of 22 Old 02-14-2017, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by gsilver View Post
I'd like to keep the whole setup under $3k, but I'm also a bit space limited in my component cabinet. I doubt that I'd be able to fit both an external amp and the receiver in the cabinet, but a slim device (like the Oppo player) and a power amp should work just fine.
Now we're talking. Check out the size and price of the D-sonic monos, plenty of power and praise too. You get something like that and put one behind each Maggie, nestled nicely between its feet. Or look for something similar.

http://www.d-sonic.net
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post #11 of 22 Old 02-14-2017, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by gsilver View Post
Yeah. I've been thinking about getting a high-end Oppo for a while. It would probably have to wait until they had a UHD version, though.
I assume that I could take care of the multiple source issue with an HDMI switch box (any recommended ones for 4k60? The more inputs the better) run the HDMI out to the TV, and run analog out to a proper power amp.
How about the $549 Oppo?

Has bass management should you ever wish to add a sub.

https://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-udp-203/

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post #12 of 22 Old 02-14-2017, 11:15 AM
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How about the $549 Oppo?

Has bass management should you ever wish to add a sub.

https://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-udp-203/

I would wait a couple of months for the new OPPO BDP-205, which will have 4k and a lot more features than the 203 (and superb audio quality
like the BDP-95 and BDP-105).

It is supposed to be available soon.

It looks like the BDP-105 is discontinued by OPPO, and no longer available on their website. It is available from some retailers that still have it in stock.
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post #13 of 22 Old 02-14-2017, 11:20 AM
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Now we're talking. Check out the size and price of the D-sonic monos, plenty of power and praise too. You get something like that and put one behind each Maggie, nestled nicely between its feet. Or look for something similar.

http://www.d-sonic.net

One solution is to put the power amp on the floor, behind one speaker.

Or get two mono amps, and put one behind each speaker.

You don't want a power amp to sit right on carpeting, so use a couple of wood blocks to raise it an inch or more for proper ventilation.
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post #14 of 22 Old 02-14-2017, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by commsysman View Post
I would wait a couple of months for the new OPPO BDP-205, which will have 4k and a lot more features than the 203 (and superb audio quality
like the BDP-95 and BDP-105).

It is supposed to be available soon.
Well if it is $550, and will be available shortly, that makes sense.

What makes the 203 not have excellent audio quality in your view?

I don't own one but it sure looks like it has a ton of features, including 4k, UHD/HDR/Dolby Vision and a solid DAC.

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post #15 of 22 Old 02-14-2017, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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One solution is to put the power amp on the floor, behind one speaker.

Or get two mono amps, and put one behind each speaker.

You don't want a power amp to sit right on carpeting, so use a couple of wood blocks to raise it an inch or more for proper ventilation.
I have a wall run of speaker cable/HDMI-over-Ethernet from the cabinet to where the speakers/TV are (which is on the opposite side of a large room), and there aren't any outlets near the speakers (and even the TV outlet is awkwardly placed), so I won't be putting anything near the speakers.
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post #16 of 22 Old 02-15-2017, 07:45 PM - Thread Starter
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I went to a local hi-fi store (and got to listen to some $100,000 speakers... Those exist? Holy ****... I'd rather pay my mortgage, thanks) described my setup, and they recommended an integrated amplifier. The one that they recommended was the Rotel Ra-1592, and a HDMI switch with an audio splitter.

Any thoughts on that one?
The WPC rating is lower, but it may simplify the setup somewhat, and at least one review favorably compared its DAC to the one in the Oppo BDP-105.
I assume that if I go this route, I'd get either the UDP-103 or a lower model and let the Rotel decode the audio.


Oh, and how *does* one read reviews of hi-fi equipment? It seems like every single product (unless it's blatantly bad) is the best in its price range and sounds better than others x times the price...
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post #17 of 22 Old 02-16-2017, 02:33 AM
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Well if it is $550, and will be available shortly, that makes sense.

What makes the 203 not have excellent audio quality in your view?

I don't own one but it sure looks like it has a ton of features, including 4k, UHD/HDR/Dolby Vision and a solid DAC.
I have the oppo 203. I also have the oppo 95 from the 95/93 line, with improved analog audio. It sounds like the op will be using digital audio so there is no reason to use wait for the 205. The only difference between the 5 and 3 versions of oppo's players has been improved analog audio performance and in the case of the 105 a built in headphone amp. Feature wise in terms of what they can do, they are the same. So if he's going to be using a lot of digital out, just get the 203. I would note now that the 203 at present is rather buggy, although I've not experienced some of the problems others are reporting in that thread. Firmware updates are coming to fix bugs. One and a new beta are already out. Of course the bugs center around 4k disc playback mostly and HDMI handshake issues.

As far as two channel system with HDMI, there are some out there, but they tend to be in the stratosphere relative to the OP's budget. Krell Digital Vanguard is one. Lyngdorf TDAI-2170, and the NAD C390 DD. The NAD is the cheapest at 2600 bucks. In the case of Lyngdorf and NAD the HDMI is an add on module to the integrated amp. I'd liked to have a lyngdorf integrated. I comes with room perfect room correction as well. Not many integrateds have that. McIntosh actually uses Lyndorf's room correction system. in one of their products. The Lyngdorf with hdmi module is 4495.
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post #18 of 22 Old 02-16-2017, 08:35 AM
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I have the oppo 203. I also have the oppo 95 from the 95/93 line, with improved analog audio. It sounds like the op will be using digital audio so there is no reason to use wait for the 205. The only difference between the 5 and 3 versions of oppo's players has been improved analog audio performance and in the case of the 105 a built in headphone amp. Feature wise in terms of what they can do, they are the same. So if he's going to be using a lot of digital out, just get the 203. I would note now that the 203 at present is rather buggy, although I've not experienced some of the problems others are reporting in that thread. Firmware updates are coming to fix bugs. One and a new beta are already out. Of course the bugs center around 4k disc playback mostly and HDMI handshake issues.

As far as two channel system with HDMI, there are some out there, but they tend to be in the stratosphere relative to the OP's budget. Krell Digital Vanguard is one. Lyngdorf TDAI-2170, and the NAD C390 DD. The NAD is the cheapest at 2600 bucks. In the case of Lyngdorf and NAD the HDMI is an add on module to the integrated amp. I'd liked to have a lyngdorf integrated. I comes with room perfect room correction as well. Not many integrateds have that. McIntosh actually uses Lyndorf's room correction system. in one of their products. The Lyngdorf with hdmi module is 4495.
Thanks for the detailed info.

My Dad bought expensive gear like that and while I can easily afford it I'm more frugal, (retired at 51 due in large part to frugality! ).

Off topic, if my much loved and in daily use 35 year old NAD 7250PE ever fails in my music room I'd likely get it repaired...but this little integrated with bass management sure looks tempting for a 2.1 channel system.

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-lPUlHi...g&awug=9032311

Geoff A. J., California
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post #19 of 22 Old 02-16-2017, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by gsilver View Post
I have a pair of speakers that I'm pretty happy with (Magnepan 1.7i) , presently running off of a Marantz SR5010 home theater receiver. I have briefly used a 5.0 setup (using a 2ndhand Magnepan MGCC3 for the center and some old Polks for the surrounds) but have decided that I really don't want to allocate the space to anything beyond stereo setup, but would like to invest in a much better DAC/amp for music, movies, and games. While I've been pretty happy with the speakers, they aren't exactly living up to their full potential (when I compare it to the setup that I originally demoed them on in the audio shop).
Though the kicker here is that I still want to be able to switch between a large number of devices, so I'm a bit confused as to how to start moving things over to a proper 2CH setup. I play a lot of games, and thus have several systems, in addition to my dedicated bluray player and PC.

So, for a multi-device setup, how does one handle the switching between many inputs? I believe that most of my game systems have optical out, and the PC could use USB, but I still have a bunch of HDMI video sources (a few of which are 4k/60hz) each with separate audio-out.
Additionally, I need to take care of video switching before the TV, as I'm using a single-input wall run from the receiver to the TV.

I'll separate my search for an amp from the switching question.
I have an HTPC, Oppo 203, A Denon SACD player, a Cable box and another small android stream box all as sources. Have a dedicated DAC, 2 ch amp and a Marantz 6011 as audio processors/amps. I have integrated both 2.1 and 5.2.4 into one, like a 2.1 inside a 5.2.4.

My PC usb goes to dedicated DAC, while HDMI goes to receiver/TV. For both Oppo and Denon, HDMI goes to receiver but optical/analog goes to DAC or 2 ch amp. DAC goes straight to 2 ch amp. Both Cable box and android box go to receiver. When I want to listen music from PC, Oppo or Denon, I just switch on the device, DAC, 2 ch amp and plays it. When I want to watch movies or multichannel, I switch on the AVR (which feeds front L and R to 2 ch amp) and everything plays with the additional speakers connected directly to AVR come to life.
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______________
Thanks, Jay
Spoiler!

Last edited by JaytheDreamer; 02-16-2017 at 10:06 AM.
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post #20 of 22 Old 02-16-2017, 12:08 PM
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I have an HTPC, Oppo 203, A Denon SACD player, a Cable box and another small android stream box all as sources. Have a dedicated DAC, 2 ch amp and a Marantz 6011 as audio processors/amps. I have integrated both 2.1 and 5.2.4 into one, like a 2.1 inside a 5.2.4.

My PC usb goes to dedicated DAC, while HDMI goes to receiver/TV. For both Oppo and Denon, HDMI goes to receiver but optical/analog goes to DAC or 2 ch amp. DAC goes straight to 2 ch amp. Both Cable box and android box go to receiver. When I want to listen music from PC, Oppo or Denon, I just switch on the device, DAC, 2 ch amp and plays it. When I want to watch movies or multichannel, I switch on the AVR (which feeds front L and R to 2 ch amp) and everything plays with the additional speakers connected directly to AVR come to life.
Nicely done integration of two systems sharing one pair of speakers. Props on the Rogue audio Sphinx. I sometimes thought about getting that or their Magnum integrated after hearing some big Rogue tube monos and really dug the sound of them.
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post #21 of 22 Old 02-16-2017, 02:14 PM
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Nicely done integration of two systems sharing one pair of speakers. Props on the Rogue audio Sphinx. I sometimes thought about getting that or their Magnum integrated after hearing some big Rogue tube monos and really dug the sound of them.
I auditioned both CM II and Sphinx II. While CM was a little bit better, the Sphinx was not behind. So, for a 1K margin I settled on Sphinx. But CM is an amazing amp.
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Spoiler!
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post #22 of 22 Old 02-17-2017, 02:55 AM
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Thanks for the detailed info.

My Dad bought expensive gear like that and while I can easily afford it I'm more frugal, (retired at 51 due in large part to frugality! ).

Off topic, if my much loved and in daily use 35 year old NAD 7250PE ever fails in my music room I'd likely get it repaired...but this little integrated with bass management sure looks tempting for a 2.1 channel system.

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-lPUlHi...g&awug=9032311
That does look like a nice little unit, and 4 ohm capable to boot!
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