How Many of Us are 2 Channel Only? - Page 9 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #241 of 430 Old 05-29-2020, 09:12 AM
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Third sentence of the BP9060's owner's manual:

"This extraordinary speaker is truly state-of-the-art in both music and home theater sound reproduction"

The part I underlined clearly shows this speaker is not optimized for HT use over 2ch.
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post #242 of 430 Old 05-29-2020, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
can you cite an example of a speaker marketed as being optimized for front L/R in a HT, not 2ch., as you claim there's a distinct need for? I am unaware of any. [premade packages of say "5.1 HT complete systems" don't count. I'm speaking of a speaker sold either individually or as a pair claiming to be "optimized for front L/R HT use as opposed to 2ch."[paraphrased] that the user would add to a center speaker to make the front sound stage of a HT.
Another example which doesn't count would be those oddball front speakers where instead of using ceiling speakers or bounce off the ceiling little speakers for Dolby Atmos, there are bounce-off-the-ceiling driver(s) on top of the L and R fronts themselves ["Dolby Atmos Enabled" I believe they call them]. Since there is no such thing in 2ch sound reproduction, such speakers would be arguably "designed just for HT use".

Random example of such a design:

https://www.audioholics.com/loudspea...image_preview2

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post #243 of 430 Old 05-29-2020, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ69 View Post
Exactly. I'm not sure this will go over very well but I'll say it anyway. HT is about a visual image, sure good sound makes action have more impact but the film media is mostly about the visual image. Your brain can only process so much information and the visual image overwhelms the brain. .

Not to be nit picky but this is what blind listening tests provide.... a chance to disconnect sight bias from one's hearing.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ69 View Post
Two channel is about recorded music and a quality 2 channel rig is best at reproducing recorded music. And a general rule is that two great channels are going to sound better than four good channels. So given limited budgets, 2 channel is king. Your opinion may vary.


I disagree here. Good speakers are good speakers and will excel in both applications. Speakers that can only do one application well are not good speakers. Getting into the electronics..maybe entry level AVRs are a compromise by the manufacturer to hit a certain price point but when you move up to the top 3 models, then the audio compromise have all but vanished. I do agree that it costs more to get a quality multichannel set up based on the equipment but in no means does a quality multichannel system come 2nd best to a dedicated 2 channel setup.
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post #244 of 430 Old 05-29-2020, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ69 View Post
HT is about a visual image, sure good sound makes action have more impact but the film media is mostly about the visual image. Your brain can only process so much information and the visual image overwhelms the brain.
There is no visual image when listening to SACD 5.1 sound. [No need to even own a TV if that's your only surround format.]

Using speakers front and back for a more three dimensional sound depiction of stereo sources predates the use of home video by (off the top of my head) a decade or so.

Example: 1971. [Stereo VHS, linear not HiFi, appeared I believe in 1982.]
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post #245 of 430 Old 05-29-2020, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3db View Post
I disagree here. Good speakers are good speakers and will excel in both applications. Speakers that can only do one application well are not good speakers. Getting into the electronics..maybe entry level AVRs are a compromise by the manufacturer to hit a certain price point but when you move up to the top 3 models, then the audio compromise have all but vanished. I do agree that it costs more to get a quality multichannel set up based on the equipment but in no means does a quality multichannel system come 2nd best to a dedicated 2 channel setup.
I agree with you. Their argument is like this:

"People should focus on the best possible monophonic sound system because having to buy two speakers, two amplifiers, a stereo preamp, not to mention the 2ch source material, will cost over twice as much as a good mono setup so therefor you'll have to compromise and buy junky gear in order for it to be affordable."

I bet this very argument was made in the late 1950s when stereo emerged onto the market.
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post #246 of 430 Old 05-29-2020, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
I feel sorry for the people who think one type of room can cover 2ch music and another for multi channel. Clearly different genres need different rooms. 1960's psychedelic rock rooms need more lava lamps, color light projectors, and go-go dancers, for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WANNqr-vcx0
I know you're being a touch tongue-in-cheek regarding the "different genres" and lava lamps thing. However, please don't belittle the initial argument by conflating it with nonsense (though, I couldn't say there exists no person that enjoys classical played in a more live room than rock!).

If you believe that measurable room differences, like ETC, should strive for a consistent singular optimal target regardless whether one is optimizing (*) a room for MCH or 2ch then just state that. More, state what the target should be / look like! I simply give nebulous "live" or "dead" because until we can reach consensus whether that matters, there's really no point digging into what the actual measurements are. I also recognize "live" and "dead" are combination-terms, determined by examining various measurements (and / or simply ones hands and ears if one desires crude estimates).

(*) optimizing is a key word -- sure anything can be jack of multiple trades while mastering none. And, certainly, something can make trade-offs in one domain to optimize another! If you think an optimal 2ch room should have the same raw room response targets as an optimal MCH room, say so. I'll agree they should have similar goals (e.g., they should decay at similar rates across a broadband frequency response). However, achieving that goal while being more live or just killing the room dead are two different ways to achieve the goal of "room shall decay evenly over 20hz-20kHz" -- assuming that's a good goal, though I think there's consensus it is. Of course, the resultant room will not sound the same! This is not even to mention multi-tiered seating theaters and the design goals and compromises required to optimize them for "all" eyes and ears. Goals that most 2ch rooms never need care about.

Please, again, don't fail to realize this is an argument about "optimal" not "good enough". If a person has money for two "optimal" rooms, then one needs not have to "compromise". I'm all game to continue to learn whether a singular room can indeed be optimal for both, though! One day I would love to design a 20 seat theater that also has "holographic 2ch imaging". Though, for the record, I'm unsure I've ever really heard such imaging, but supposedly some would consider that "optimal". What I do know is the imaging in my current room bests anything I've heard w.r.t. how it handles the soundscape it paints. It trades many other things in getting there and "pin-point, headphone-like imaging" (which I personally dislike) is one of them! I've heard tiny pin-point imaging in deader rooms wherein I love their MCH performance. I've heard many things between, too -- like, for example, my car, where I get left, right, and "everything else". I would guess measuring all those environments and the response patterns of the speakers therein may be illuminating!

Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
If there were such a design differentiation between HT and 2ch. speakers as you imply, wouldn't they sell products optimized for each category? Clearly there are speakers marketed as "for the center channel", 'for the .1 (subwoofer) channel", and "for the surround channels", but can you cite an example of a speaker marketed as being optimized for front L/R in a HT, not 2ch., as you claim there's a distinct need for? I am unaware of any. [premade packages of say "5.1 HT complete systems" don't count. I'm speaking of a speaker sold either individually or as a pair claiming to be "optimized for front L/R HT use as opposed to 2ch."[paraphrased] that the user would add to a center speaker to make the front sound stage of a HT.
I think you're misinterpreting my post. Let me re-quote to bold the imperative part:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamWarrior View Post
The [speakers], however, mostly in selecting appropriate directivity
I did not say, nor do I care, whether a speaker is marketed to a specific target; marketing is not measurements! I said that the different environments may require different measurable speaker parameters -- in this case, I was specific to mention directivity as a parameter, one I believe particularly important. Indeed, I went on to clarify in that very same post. Unfortunately, said clarification suffered an edit at your hand...I'd ask why, but it doesn't matter much unless it was intentionally nefarious, which I hope it would not be.... Regardless, I'll re-post it, too:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamWarrior View Post
For MCH, of course, you'd be selecting speakers that can cover your seating area effectively without "spraying sound" everywhere you "don't want it".
Which correlates back to my statement regarding directivity. For example, I'm unlikely to select an omni speaker like the MBL for L/R/C in an optimal MCH setup! But, in a 2ch room, if I wanted a very spacious sound, I may! If I wanted that same MBL 2ch spaciousness in a MCH room without MBLs what would I do? Design the room to more reflective? How would that impact MCH performance?

Regardless, it's a design parameter and depending on how you want to engineer your room to sound, especially if there's a large seating area, a potentially very important one. This isn't even to mention many other room differences; distance to screen for eye comfort may require a longer distance to people, requiring maybe high power or more efficiency (despite I'd say you always want to strive for efficiency, lol).

Which is to say, IMO, a well engineered room takes its listener's requirements (bias to MCH or 2ch, seating area, etc) and then crafts the best solution using the proper tools. I think a speaker is a tool that must be properly selected! More, the selection is not by marketing B.S., but by measurements (that are, unfortunately, often absent from all marketing and technical info provided by the manufacturer). Agree?

At this point, I suppose it's sufficient to say that, IMO (again, which I'm willing to be wrong about), I believe that my ideal MCH room is not my ideal 2ch room. I really would prefer to be wrong, as that singular 20 seat, 2ch holographic-imaging, Atmos theater that perhaps exists in my future is calling me! Of course, I'd probably still have a 2ch room, because I love bass and it'd be easier to pressurize a smaller 2ch room...but, money zero object, I'll just buy a few of these babies . Of course, then I'll just set some requirements best I can and hire an actual engineer to work with me on the design -- at the moment, I can fund only the Holiday Inn Express acoustic-engineer (me ).
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post #247 of 430 Old 05-29-2020, 01:48 PM
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Topic is launched by A9X-308:
Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post
I've never understood the need for a 2ch and HT when it's very easy to build one that will do both perfectly well.
The often used "You wouldn't understand because you haven't experienced 2ch done at a really high level" and/or "How would you know? You haven't heard good sound like I have" argument is used to counter it with an accusation my camp of listeners aren't "serious":

Quote:
Originally Posted by twitch54 View Post
once you see(and hear) 2ch and HT done to a really high level it's easier to understand. . . most 'serious' 2ch guys and gals prefer to separate their systems, I know I do
I ask for clarification how "optimal" HT power amps differ from "optimal" stereo power amps, the only valid reason you'd need to buy two for one room:

Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
I've heard both (and sold them professionally for a little over two decades) and I agree with A9X-308: I don't understand it either. Perhaps you could explain the concept to us? Specifically, when shopping for the amplifier to drive the left channel of a 2ch system what attributes would differ from what one should look for in the amplifier one would use for the front left speaker of a HT system, hence the need to buy two amps not one?
You then completely shift the goal posts and instead of talking about the amps, you instead go to the room acoustics, "and to some degree, speakers":

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Originally Posted by DreamWarrior View Post
Unfortunately, while I typically agree with you, in this one, I'm unsure I can. But, I don't think it has anything to do with the electronics. I do think it has to do with the room and, to some degree, speakers.
---

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamWarrior View Post
I know you're being a touch tongue-in-cheek regarding the "different genres" and lava lamps thing. However, please don't belittle the initial argument
The initial argument is the gear used, not the room acoustics. And the lava lamp thing and the Death Star themed theater I showed were nods to the other poster who wants the room(s) to have a "vibe". I'm totally cool with that and told him so:
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
That's cool. Logical. I have no problem with it. My post wasn't addressing you nor what you wrote.
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post #248 of 430 Old 05-29-2020, 01:55 PM
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I know of no standards organization like SMPTE, ITU, THX, EBU, NAB, etc which suggests room acoustics for optimal stereo differ from 5.1, but if a person digs it, whatever.

The notion some amps are "just" HT amps and others are "serious", 2ch amps. however is 100% BS. What you want in an amp for the front L speaker is exactly the same for both HT and 2ch. so there's no need to buy two if for the same speaker in the same room, although that's exactly what dealers want us to do in order to double their profits.
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post #249 of 430 Old 05-29-2020, 02:15 PM
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The thread takes a nap for three years... then post 174.



If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough – Albert Einstein
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post #250 of 430 Old 05-29-2020, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
*snip*
You then completely shift the goal posts and instead of talking about the amps, you instead go to the room acoustics, "and to some degree, speakers"
Indeed, I shifted the goal-posts somewhere where an argument may actually have a standing, lol. But, I shifted them in theme of the more general statement "I separate my systems", indeed, into two different rooms if you're going to do it, . Totally agree, in one room, there's hardly a reason. However, if you can manage to place two completely different sets of speakers optimally in a single room to do both, more power to you. I think the speakers and room design would be the only thing I'd change from 2ch to MCH. The latter, only because the rooms would be design differently and I'd chose the speakers based on my goals for the room. I chose my M2s based on their wide pattern and excellent off-axis knowing I'd unlikely ever have a 100% sound-controlled room to effectively place a ton of treatment. So, I figured a wide and good off-axis response would make the amenable to most rooms I'd ever put them in. Worse case, I need to treat the room to make sure I get more direct sound in order not to "smear" the MCH information. So far, they've done amazingly well in every environment (and I'm up to hearing 4 now) I've heard them in. But, they always sound a little different...you know room and all.

Sorry, then...I was trying to shift the argument to a more realistic spot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
I know of no standards organization like SMPTE, ITU, THX, EBU, NAB, etc which suggests room acoustics for optimal stereo differ from 5.1, but if a person digs it, whatever.

The notion some amps are "just" HT amps and others are "serious", 2ch amps. however is 100% BS. What you want in an amp for the front L speaker is exactly the same for both HT and 2ch. so there's no need to buy two if for the same speaker in the same room, although that's exactly what dealers want us to do in order to double their profits.
I don't know...didn't folks like Rives used to create rooms for 2ch and they'd have different designs than a theater room?

Mabye I'm basing my notions off antiquated info. That's be great! I really want my 20 seat bass-beast to be a dual-performer if I ever get to build it! I just didn't think I could have a room that'd image like I want while also putting forth, say, Atmos effects optimally.

I'm working on getting the money together...so, one day maybe I'll travel to some different high-end theaters and see what's really out there. I don't want to be a piker, so...I'll wait until I can afford to play at that level before experiencing it.
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post #251 of 430 Old 05-29-2020, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
- bi-preamping .
Now I've heard it all, i suspect there is some BS going on but i'm going to wait to see for myself. I think I'll be picking up a Yamaha S501 one of these days to compare it with an AVR.

I know it's not a blind test but I've always been curious about these integrated amps.

The stereo guys always brag about how much their amps weigh and looking at these Yamahas they only weigh 20-25lbs so is that a bad sign?

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post #252 of 430 Old 05-29-2020, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
I agree with you. Their argument is like this:

"People should focus on the best possible monophonic sound system because having to buy two speakers, two amplifiers, a stereo preamp, not to mention the 2ch source material, will cost over twice as much as a good mono setup so therefor you'll have to compromise and buy junky gear in order for it to be affordable."

I bet this very argument was made in the late 1950s when stereo emerged onto the market.
I agree and can hear the arguements made my the mono zealots against the 2 channel stereo charlatans just like you described. The charlatans have become the zealots while the multichannel proponents have become the new charlatans.
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post #253 of 430 Old 05-29-2020, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingcarcas View Post
Now I've heard it all, i suspect there is some BS going on but i'm going to wait to see for myself. I think I'll be picking up a Yamaha S501 one of these days to compare it with an AVR.

I know it's not a blind test but I've always been curious about these integrated amps.

The stereo guys always brag about how much their amps weigh and looking at these Yamahas they only weigh 20-25lbs so is that a bad sign?
If I were in the market for an integrated amp Yamaha would be at the top of my list. I only wish the ones with power level meters were more affordable. The actual meter itself costs almost nothing. Heck, power level meters were standard for some brands (even on introductory receivers) a few decades ago. Every single one of the Pioneer lineup had 'em, for example:


Oh well.
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post #254 of 430 Old 05-29-2020, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingcarcas View Post
Now I've heard it all, i suspect there is some BS going on but i'm going to wait to see for myself. I think I'll be picking up a Yamaha S501 one of these days to compare it with an AVR.

I know it's not a blind test but I've always been curious about these integrated amps.

The stereo guys always brag about how much their amps weigh and looking at these Yamahas they only weigh 20-25lbs so is that a bad sign?
Sound quality is always about the weight, didnt you know?. . Some class D amps will stomp those heavy weight stereo amps into the ground in terms of performance for a fraction of the weight. Yamaha AVRs are biased class AB and are more efficient than a class A amp and as a result dont need the baggage of a bigger transformer and heat sinks thus reducing their weight. In the end the only thing that matters is that you enjoy the music and or soundtrack.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
If I were in the market for an integrated amp Yamaha would be at the top of my list. I only wish the ones with power level meters were more affordable. The actual meter itself costs almost nothing. Heck, power level meters were standard for some brands (even on introductory receivers) a few decades ago. Every single one of the Pioneer lineup had 'em, for example:


Oh well.
I had a couple of those pioneers as a kid. Loved them. Might even buy one on eBay just for the memories.
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post #256 of 430 Old 05-30-2020, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingcarcas View Post
Now I've heard it all, i suspect there is some BS going on but i'm going to wait to see for myself. I think I'll be picking up a Yamaha S501 one of these days to compare it with an AVR.

I know it's not a blind test but I've always been curious about these integrated amps.
There's a huge difference between integrated amps and receivers: on int. amps when you select "tuner" there's absolutely no radio hiss.
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post #257 of 430 Old 05-30-2020, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
If I were in the market for an integrated amp Yamaha would be at the top of my list. I only wish the ones with power level meters were more affordable. The actual meter itself costs almost nothing. Heck, power level meters were standard for some brands (even on introductory receivers) a few decades ago. Every single one of the Pioneer lineup had 'em, for example:

Oh well.
I probably learned to follow a beat while being mesmerized watching the meters bounce on my Dad's Sansui, lol. I certainly remember pushing them into clipping a lot, too. So, I have always had a penchant for hearing damage I guess....
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post #258 of 430 Old 05-30-2020, 11:43 AM
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One of the reasons I never let this amp go. Original owner and kept her stored in a closet until a few months ago when I had her completely refreshed at Carver Audio Repair.
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post #259 of 430 Old 05-30-2020, 12:29 PM
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Exactly. I'm not sure this will go over very well but I'll say it anyway. HT is about a visual image, sure good sound makes action have more impact but the film media is mostly about the visual image. Your brain can only process so much information and the visual image overwhelms the brain. Two channel is about recorded music and a quality 2 channel rig is best at reproducing recorded music. And a general rule is that two great channels are going to sound better than four good channels. So given limited budgets, 2 channel is king. Your opinion may vary.
***I think each has it's place. And HT is more than just a visual image. Dolby Atmos with a 7.1.4 system really adds to the theater experience. A well mixed soundtrack immerses you in a movie - - some more than others. I don't think the brain has any process overload since you are mostly concentrating on the visual and dialog. Example: A movie like "Fury" where if you have a good subwoofer, it sounds like the tanks are moving through your house. Or the flick "Sully," where the engine moans will have you reaching for the flight attendant "help" button.

That being said and since I have discovered lossless music streaming (QoBuz) - - I will be looking to add two separate speakers (I already have a smaller sub that will also work great) in a 2.1 configuration. This will be ONLY for music and I'd appreciate any bookshelf speaker suggestions. Now, I've also experienced "tube" use via my Bravo Ocean single tube amplifier (using a 1960's Russian Tube) that really warms the music up nicely. To build my ultimate 2.1 experience, I'm sure I'll need to consider a separate amplifier (can tubes power the speakers?) as well as a music streamer or one that is integrated with the amplifier (Peachtree or Cambridge) and an adequate, on board DAC. So to answer you question - - no, dedicated two channel setup right now but I am definitely looking to set one up very soon. Nice topic.

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SONY 75X900F & 49X900E, Denon X6700H & Emotiva XPA-3, OPPO 103 - 9.1.4 Setup - Speakers - Studio 60's-V.5 (FL/FR), CC-690-V.5 (C), ADP 590-V.5 (SS), MilleniaOne 2.0 (BS) - Velodyne 810 Sub, Cornered Audio (FH/RH), Definitive Technology (Front Wides). Stereo 2 Channel Only - Dali Evidence 470 & MartinLogan Forte Amplifier/Streamer with ARC.
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post #260 of 430 Old 05-30-2020, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
The thread takes a nap for three years... then post 174.
***Apparently, "2 Channel Audio" was in a coma for the past three years and now has a lot of time to make up for. I think the advent of lossless streaming music has really driven folks back to a 2 channel system - - or the desire to duplicate what they had many years ago - - a mellow, warm, loud or soft two channel experience. And, the ability to pick virtually any music you want without having to leave your easy chair.

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SONY 75X900F & 49X900E, Denon X6700H & Emotiva XPA-3, OPPO 103 - 9.1.4 Setup - Speakers - Studio 60's-V.5 (FL/FR), CC-690-V.5 (C), ADP 590-V.5 (SS), MilleniaOne 2.0 (BS) - Velodyne 810 Sub, Cornered Audio (FH/RH), Definitive Technology (Front Wides). Stereo 2 Channel Only - Dali Evidence 470 & MartinLogan Forte Amplifier/Streamer with ARC.
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post #261 of 430 Old 05-31-2020, 12:10 AM
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Bookshelf speaker recommendation

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Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post
[...]I will be looking to add two separate speakers (I already have a smaller sub that will also work great) in a 2.1 configuration. This will be ONLY for music and I'd appreciate any bookshelf speaker suggestions.
Budget? Musical tastes? Many who value timbre over flash (including me) like the Harbeth P3ESR. I have my pair mated to a B&W 10" sub, and it's a great combination. I doubt I'd recommend it for heavy metal, though.

(By the way, I assume by "bookshelf" you meant simply a smallish speaker, most of which sound best on stands.)

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post #262 of 430 Old 05-31-2020, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike in NC View Post
Budget? Musical tastes? Many who value timbre over flash (including me) like the Harbeth P3ESR. I have my pair mated to a B&W 10" sub, and it's a great combination. I doubt I'd recommend it for heavy metal, though.

(By the way, I assume by "bookshelf" you meant simply a smallish speaker, most of which sound best on stands.)
***Much thanks for your post. My budget is $3K to $4K. My tastes vary from rock, blues and jazz to classical with some occasional country & progressive thrown in. Definitely not a "one size fits all!" What's really keyed my interest is the enjoyment I'm getting out of Qobuz lossless streaming with my AudioTechnica Headphones and a HiBy R5 Media Player. I looked at KEF speakers but am not sure that's the route I want to go. I already have a great mini-sub (Episode EVO6-100.)

Being an older hippie, I have some high hearing loss and I do not play at loud volumes. To me, power is clarity - - especially at lower listening levels. So - with all this being said, I'm probably looking at an amplifier and maybe a separate streamer/DAC? I also could save some $$$ by looking at quality used speakers as I've gone this route before and saved $$$ by buying buying from a quality source like Audiogon from folks who have taken care of their equipment but want to upgrade their systems, as well. I love the warm, tube sound and would like to replicate my listening pleasure from two channel systems, sans the lava lamp and black light posters. This system will be in a different room from my HT setup. This is my starting point. Thx again - Rico.

Home Theater Setup
SONY 75X900F & 49X900E, Denon X6700H & Emotiva XPA-3, OPPO 103 - 9.1.4 Setup - Speakers - Studio 60's-V.5 (FL/FR), CC-690-V.5 (C), ADP 590-V.5 (SS), MilleniaOne 2.0 (BS) - Velodyne 810 Sub, Cornered Audio (FH/RH), Definitive Technology (Front Wides). Stereo 2 Channel Only - Dali Evidence 470 & MartinLogan Forte Amplifier/Streamer with ARC.
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post #263 of 430 Old 05-31-2020, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike in NC View Post
Many who value timbre over flash (including me) like the Harbeth P3ESR.
Harbeth is at the top of my list of speakers I wish I could audition but I've never been fortunate enough to have a local dealer for them so they would be a roll of the dice and a big hassle to rebox and return if I were to buy them sight unseen online.

Did you luck out and find a dealer close to where you live or did you buy them online?
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post #264 of 430 Old 05-31-2020, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Harbeth is at the top of my list of speakers I wish I could audition but I've never been fortunate enough to have a local dealer for them so they would be a roll of the dice and a big hassle to rebox and return if I were to buy them sight unseen online.
***I see them on the Audiogon site with full manufacturers warranty but they sure look pricey to me. I don't know if my ears could tell the difference or if a pair of Revel speakers would make more sense - - listening and cost wise.

Home Theater Setup
SONY 75X900F & 49X900E, Denon X6700H & Emotiva XPA-3, OPPO 103 - 9.1.4 Setup - Speakers - Studio 60's-V.5 (FL/FR), CC-690-V.5 (C), ADP 590-V.5 (SS), MilleniaOne 2.0 (BS) - Velodyne 810 Sub, Cornered Audio (FH/RH), Definitive Technology (Front Wides). Stereo 2 Channel Only - Dali Evidence 470 & MartinLogan Forte Amplifier/Streamer with ARC.
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post #265 of 430 Old 05-31-2020, 11:35 AM
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About the Harbeth P3ESR

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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Harbeth is at the top of my list of speakers I wish I could audition but I've never been fortunate enough to have a local dealer for them so they would be a roll of the dice and a big hassle to rebox and return if I were to buy them sight unseen online.

Did you luck out and find a dealer close to where you live or did you buy them online?
At a local dealer's, I auditioned the Harbeth 30.1 for my main system. I loved them at the store, but they didn't work well in my rather difficult basement room. (Since then, I've added abundant bass trapping, so maybe they'd do better.)

Based on my appreciation of the Harbeth sound and everything I read about the P3ESR, I bought a used pair online for my second system, and I've not regretted it. Buying audio gear unheard is not something I often do, nor do I recommend it, but it worked out for me on this occasion.

And @Ricoflashback -- Yes, Harbeths are rather pricey in the USA. They are not right for every situation. However, as Steve Guttenberg said, they often become a long-term possession. I have had the P3ESRs almost 10 years now, and they never have become tiring -- as my (more expensive) Revel Ultima Studios did. Not that the Revels were bad speakers! Just to say, the Harbeth's flaws (every speaker has flaws) do not make one weary of listening; so people typically hold onto them for a long time.
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post #266 of 430 Old 05-31-2020, 04:37 PM
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Russ,

Currently we have the following setups:

Barn/garage - 2 channel - Onkyo receiver and CD changer with Vandersteen speakers
Office - 2 channel - Sony ES receiver and CD changer with Mirage Sub and dipole satellites.
Bedroom - 2 channel - Bose lifestyle system. This will be replaced in the very near future.
Family room - HT - Yamaha receiver and CD/DVD player with Focal front, center, rears and sub.
Living room - 2 Channel - Mcintosh preamp and amps, Sony CD, Pioneer turntable, Teak Reel to Reel with Sonus Faber speakers. There is a Rythmik G25HP somewhere between Texas and My house as I type......
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post #267 of 430 Old 06-01-2020, 03:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ69
I'll start. I have 5 working systems set up right now but I have never owned a multi-channel system, anybody else?
 
I actually prefer 1 channel if I can get it...... I have always loved MONO better than stereo,I think its a better sound.....




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When you stop watching what they want you to watch you stop thinking what they want you to think.. Then you see a world that is nothing like they tell you it is.
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post #268 of 430 Old 06-01-2020, 09:24 AM
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I actually prefer 1 channel if I can get it...... I have always loved MONO better than stereo,I think its a better sound.....
I want to preserve the sound the artist intended so from my perspective listening to mono recordings with 2, 3, 4, 5 speakers etc. mangles the sound via comb filtering and unintended added reflections. If faithful sound reproduction is the goal then the correct number to use for mono is one, which is why Louis Armstrong had a mono room and a stereo room as I mentioned earlier.
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post #269 of 430 Old 06-01-2020, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

I ask for clarification how "optimal" HT power amps differ from "optimal" stereo power amps, the only valid reason you'd need to buy two for one room:

FWIW...



In my case, I have two different systems going in the same room - one home theater, the other two channel. I prefer that separation because there are aspects I like or want to optimize for one vs the other.


For my home theater gear, I want and require the L/C/R speakers to be somewhat close to wall boundaries near the screen. An AVR makes sense to power these - dependable solid state power, DSP to help a bit in evening out sound when needed, and of course the required source switching capabilities.


Whereas for two channel, I like to optimize for a certain type of sound, and to experience 3 dimensional, dense, tight imaging. I find this is best achieved with my 2 channel speakers pulled well out from the walls, somewhat closer to nearfield. They achieve a sense of soundstaging/imaging that my surround system can't match, and also have a somewhat different sonic character that I really like too. As well, I play lots of vinyl through my two channel.


And I prefer my toob amps (conrad johnson) for two channel music listening vs using an AVR.
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post #270 of 430 Old 06-01-2020, 10:25 AM
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And I prefer my toob amps (conrad johnson) for two channel music listening vs using an AVR.
So apparently the cj power amps degrade the sound of the front L and R channels for 5.1 use and that's why you can't use them exclusively for both music and movies/TV (assuming the AVR has L/R preouts)?
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