Which is my next upgrade? Pre-amp, power amp or CD player? - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 129Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #91 of 185 Old 05-17-2017, 12:52 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 2,590
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1297 Post(s)
Liked: 2096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
"Went mountain biking with a buddy with a CF frame"


You know better than this. I could give a crap about specs.. They tell me nothing about what a speaker will sound like. However, if specs is your thang, check out the distortion specs on ESLs.

Maybe this, and the difficulty driving this type of speaker, is why I'll readily hear amp vs. amp differences when I won't on other more conventional systems in my house. Still though, difficulty driving ESLs doesn't explain why I can hear difference with phono cables. I can on the ML ESLS, but generally can't with the Elacs or the B&W 865 S2s. They can't (not even close) resolve as well as the ESLs.

Plus, the resolving capability is far greater than your typical circa 1965 Sears Silvertone Consolette.
I ride road on my recumbent but also did BMX, road racing and mountain biking. A lifetime of broken parts and blood on the pavement, trails and around trees.

Well, if you have ever restored or repaired speakers--those charts and graphs on the drivers are critical. Get the design on paper, simulate with computer programs then test, measure and verify. I cheat these days, I bi-amp the speaker and use DSP for the filters to get the best crossover and filter points to mix modern and vintage drivers together. Once that is done, then I have a better idea of how to do the passive crossover. Get close with the passive then tune it a bit until smooth.

ESLs are their own thing, they need specific amplifiers for them to operate correctly. This is not an amp problem, this is a speaker problem but such is the price you pay for that design. It would be the same as if I took your amplifier and attached a iPal commercial grade sub to it--the amp would protest and probably let the magic smoke out. Not a fault of the amp, it is the fault of the ultra-low impedance of the iPal driver.

You should check that link to the "speaker flag"... when it rolls out, the ESL is gone but not forgotten.
18Hurts is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #92 of 185 Old 05-17-2017, 01:07 PM
Advanced Member
 
Tomas2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 742
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 459 Post(s)
Liked: 731
Quote:
Originally Posted by LFEer View Post
...That's one of those audiophile myths conveniently thrown around to cloud up the issue. The results of level matched and bias controlled vs level not matched and bias not controlled listening through the same system debunks that myth.
It's no myth and one does not have to level match nor is a DBT necessary. This has been true for ALL audio amplifier designs from the very beginning till today.

All audio amplifiers do not sound the same. I discovered this some 35 years ago and nothing has changed.
Paraneer, Jady Jenkins and Russ69 like this.

SAMSUNG QLED | ROTEL | MOREL | M&K | HAFLER | TECHNICS SP-25
Tomas2 is offline  
post #93 of 185 Old 05-17-2017, 01:26 PM
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 966
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 554 Post(s)
Liked: 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomas2 View Post
It's no myth and one does not have to level match nor is a DBT necessary. This has been true for ALL audio amplifier designs from the very beginning till today.

All audio amplifiers do not sound the same. I discovered this some 35 years ago and nothing has changed.
Welcome back, its been awhile...we've missed your thought provoking posts!
Jady Jenkins is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #94 of 185 Old 05-17-2017, 01:29 PM
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 966
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 554 Post(s)
Liked: 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomas2 View Post
It's no myth and one does not have to level match nor is a DBT necessary. This has been true for ALL audio amplifier designs from the very beginning till today.

All audio amplifiers do not sound the same. I discovered this some 35 years ago and nothing has changed.
Level matching isn't required, absolutely not, to note differences, as i just recently experience running my own DB ABX style of testing's. Our pretesting system acclimation periods, which were not leveled matched, boar out the same conclusion as our ABX testing, if you will.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/173-2-...l#post51791889
Tomas2 and Russ69 like this.
Jady Jenkins is offline  
post #95 of 185 Old 05-17-2017, 01:38 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Scotth3886's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: New Albany, OH
Posts: 8,226
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3994 Post(s)
Liked: 2462
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Hurts View Post
I ride road on my recumbent but also did BMX, road racing and mountain biking. A lifetime of broken parts and blood on the pavement, trails and around trees.

I did have a trail bike when I lived in SoCal along with several road bikes. There were places to use trail bikes out there, but there's nothing of interest here. Road bike only here and that's used to keep my health. Too bad the weather is f**ked all the time.

Well, if you have ever restored or repaired speakers--those charts and graphs on the drivers are critical. Get the design on paper, simulate with computer programs then test, measure and verify. I cheat these days, I bi-amp the speaker and use DSP for the filters to get the best crossover and filter points to mix modern and vintage drivers together. Once that is done, then I have a better idea of how to do the passive crossover. Get close with the passive then tune it a bit until smooth.

As we've discussed before, I have no interest or time for building speakers

ESLs are their own thing, they need specific amplifiers for them to operate correctly. This is not an amp problem, this is a speaker problem but such is the price you pay for that design. It would be the same as if I took your amplifier and attached a iPal commercial grade sub to it--the amp would protest and probably let the magic smoke out. Not a fault of the amp, it is the fault of the ultra-low impedance of the iPal driver.

But ESLs are my thing and have been for nearly 60 years. As we've discussed before, the difficult load of the ESL is not the only factor that's allows one to differentiate between components further up the food chain. It's also the ultra low distortion, next to massless diaphragm that is driven over every sq mm of its surface, speed, etc., that makes design uniquely able to resolve these kind of difference and in some cases exaggerate them.

You should check that link to the "speaker flag"... when it rolls out, the ESL is gone but not forgotten.
ESLs have never been 'here' to be gone. It's an extreme niche product that very very few folks are into. True, we see HT fan bois buy them because ML, Best Buy, etc., are pretty good at the marketing end, but then they take these home and shove them up against a wall. So they've never heard what these can do either.
Scotth3886 is online now  
post #96 of 185 Old 05-17-2017, 03:40 PM
 
LFEer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,243
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 818 Post(s)
Liked: 532
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomas2 View Post
All audio amplifiers do not sound the same.
I haven't seen anyone posting that they do. If you have, please share.
auronihilist likes this.
LFEer is offline  
post #97 of 185 Old 05-17-2017, 03:49 PM
Senior Member
 
auronihilist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 202
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 137 Post(s)
Liked: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomas2 View Post
It's no myth and one does not have to level match nor is a DBT necessary. This has been true for ALL audio amplifier designs from the very beginning till today.

All audio amplifiers do not sound the same. I discovered this some 35 years ago and nothing has changed.
When you determined that amps sound differently, what methods did you use 35 years ago when you discovered the differences?

Audiophile fanboy beliefs are based on myth, superstition and ego.
auronihilist is offline  
post #98 of 185 Old 05-17-2017, 03:50 PM
 
LFEer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,243
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 818 Post(s)
Liked: 532
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Hurts View Post
For entertainment, look up the distortion charts on speaker drivers with various levels of power and SPL. The results are terrible compared to the distortion levels of electronic devices. At this point, I go for the biggest distortion generator (speakers) and try to get my room sorted out to minimize those evils. The electronics are far lower offenders so I'll worry about them when drastic improvements in speaker performance dictate the research.
Exactly.
Quote:
I'm sure once a speaker that produces convincing amounts of SPL at less than 0.1% exists
That will be the day. But then will that matter to us (over the hill listeners)?
LFEer is offline  
post #99 of 185 Old 05-17-2017, 03:50 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Russ69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,518
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1065 Post(s)
Liked: 614
Quote:
Originally Posted by LFEer View Post
I haven't seen anyone posting that they do. If you have, please share.
How many times a week do we have to post the list?
Jady Jenkins and Tomas2 like this.

__________________________

"Oh I'm sorry, is this a five minute argument, or the full half hour?"
Russ69 is offline  
post #100 of 185 Old 05-17-2017, 03:55 PM
 
LFEer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,243
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 818 Post(s)
Liked: 532
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ69 View Post
How many times a week do we have to post the list?
Repeating questionable claims tend to attract repeating questions, especially when not answered.
LFEer is offline  
post #101 of 185 Old 05-17-2017, 04:12 PM
Advanced Member
 
Tomas2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 742
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 459 Post(s)
Liked: 731
Quote:
Originally Posted by auronihilist View Post
When you determined that amps sound differently, what methods did you use 35 years ago when you discovered the differences?
Bryston 4B http://bryston.com/PDF/Other/3B_4B_Pre-NRB_TECH_REF.pdf

2 x bridged Crown D75A http://www.crownaudio.com/en/products/d-75a

2 x bridged Hafler P1000 http://www.hafler.com/pdf/archive/MA..._P1000_man.pdf


Each of these amps were in three identical post production suites.. all three were driving a pair of JBL 4408 2-way monitors.

They all sounded different, all three suites were calibrated by me personally using:

http://www.nti-audio.com/en/products/minilyzer-ml1.aspx

NTi Minilyzer-ML1

http://www.nti-audio.com/Portals/0/d...ML1-Manual.pdf

Combined with the calibrated MiniSPL mic (page 47)

Here: http://www.nti-audio.com/Portals/0/d...oduct-Data.pdf
Jady Jenkins likes this.

SAMSUNG QLED | ROTEL | MOREL | M&K | HAFLER | TECHNICS SP-25

Last edited by Tomas2; 05-18-2017 at 09:17 AM.
Tomas2 is offline  
post #102 of 185 Old 05-17-2017, 07:03 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 2,590
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1297 Post(s)
Liked: 2096
Quote:
Originally Posted by LFEer View Post
Exactly. That will be the day. But then will that matter to us (over the hill listeners)?
By then I'll have a self-driving flying car and a weed card--and won't care if you are on my lawn. I'm not too picky, if I could get THX reference bass levels at a staggering 1 percent distortion, I'll be happy!
18Hurts is offline  
post #103 of 185 Old 05-17-2017, 07:04 PM
 
LFEer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,243
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 818 Post(s)
Liked: 532
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomas2 View Post
Bryston 4B http://bryston.com/PDF/Other/3B_4B_Pre-NRB_TECH_REF.pdf

2 x Crown D75A http://www.crownaudio.com/en/products/d-75a

2 x bridged Hafler P1000 http://www.hafler.com/pdf/archive/MA..._P1000_man.pdf


Each of these amps were in three identical post production suites.. all three were driving a pair of JBL 4408 2-way monitors.

They all sounded different,
Probably due to listening position change and aural memory fade, if not level mismatch. Was visual bias controlled? Probably not.
Quote:
all three suites were calibrated by me personally using:

http://www.nti-audio.com/en/products/minilyzer-ml1.aspx

NTi Minilyzer-ML1

http://www.nti-audio.com/Portals/0/d...ML1-Manual.pdf

Combined with the calibrated MiniSPL mic (page 47)

Here: http://www.nti-audio.com/Portals/0/d...oduct-Data.pdf
Those devices weren't around 35 years ago. On top of that, you didn't match levels at the speaker terminal.
auronihilist likes this.
LFEer is offline  
post #104 of 185 Old 05-17-2017, 07:08 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 2,590
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1297 Post(s)
Liked: 2096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
ESLs have never been 'here' to be gone. It's an extreme niche product that very very few folks are into. True, we see HT fan bois buy them because ML, Best Buy, etc., are pretty good at the marketing end, but then they take these home and shove them up against a wall. So they've never heard what these can do either.
I guess you didn't read about the "speaker flags"--they are mounted on the wall. It is a panel like an ESL but not a dipole, does not work like a ESL and is completely different. Those things can be used as speakers, microphones or convert sound to electricity...something interesting is coming up. The idea is you can roll them up like a carpet or newspaper then unroll them and hang them as needed.

My back gives that a big thumbs up!
18Hurts is offline  
post #105 of 185 Old 05-17-2017, 07:15 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Scotth3886's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: New Albany, OH
Posts: 8,226
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3994 Post(s)
Liked: 2462
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Hurts View Post
I guess you didn't read about the "speaker flags"--they are mounted on the wall. It is a panel like an ESL but not a dipole, does not work like a ESL and is completely different. Those things can be used as speakers, microphones or convert sound to electricity...something interesting is coming up. The idea is you can roll them up like a carpet or newspaper then unroll them and hang them as needed.

My back gives that a big thumbs up!

I read it. Again, I don't want anything on the wall. I use that back wave.
Scotth3886 is online now  
post #106 of 185 Old 05-17-2017, 07:25 PM
Advanced Member
 
Tomas2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 742
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 459 Post(s)
Liked: 731
Quote:
Originally Posted by LFEer View Post
Probably due to listening position change
Nope

Quote:
..you didn't match levels at the speaker terminal.
SPL perfectly matched

SAMSUNG QLED | ROTEL | MOREL | M&K | HAFLER | TECHNICS SP-25
Tomas2 is offline  
post #107 of 185 Old 05-17-2017, 07:26 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 2,590
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1297 Post(s)
Liked: 2096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
I read it. Again, I don't want anything on the wall. I use that back wave.
Maybe the flags can be used as subs for your ESLs--I would definitely use them for surrounds/atmos and car audio applications when/if they come out before I die. A few floor to ceiling flag sub panels would be nice as long as you don't have cats.
18Hurts is offline  
post #108 of 185 Old 05-17-2017, 07:39 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Scotth3886's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: New Albany, OH
Posts: 8,226
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3994 Post(s)
Liked: 2462
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Hurts View Post
Maybe the flags can be used as subs for your ESLs--I would definitely use them for surrounds/atmos and car audio applications when/if they come out before I die. A few floor to ceiling flag sub panels would be nice as long as you don't have cats.

I won't live long enough to worry about it. I have what I have and that will likely be it. And no one else will live long enough to ever see me with speakers against the wall or on the wall.
Jady Jenkins likes this.
Scotth3886 is online now  
post #109 of 185 Old 05-18-2017, 06:36 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 2,590
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1297 Post(s)
Liked: 2096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
I won't live long enough to worry about it. I have what I have and that will likely be it. And no one else will live long enough to ever see me with speakers against the wall or on the wall.
You can give me the ESLs in your will, I'll get the flag subs and test them out. Then I'll inform Shirley McClain's clan to message you in the afterlife--I'm cool like that.
18Hurts is offline  
post #110 of 185 Old 05-18-2017, 07:46 AM
Senior Member
 
auronihilist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 202
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 137 Post(s)
Liked: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomas2 View Post
Bryston 4B http://bryston.com/PDF/Other/3B_4B_Pre-NRB_TECH_REF.pdf

2 x Crown D75A http://www.crownaudio.com/en/products/d-75a

2 x bridged Hafler P1000 http://www.hafler.com/pdf/archive/MA..._P1000_man.pdf


Each of these amps were in three identical post production suites.. all three were driving a pair of JBL 4408 2-way monitors.

They all sounded different, all three suites were calibrated by me personally using:

http://www.nti-audio.com/en/products/minilyzer-ml1.aspx

NTi Minilyzer-ML1

http://www.nti-audio.com/Portals/0/d...ML1-Manual.pdf

Combined with the calibrated MiniSPL mic (page 47)

Here: http://www.nti-audio.com/Portals/0/d...oduct-Data.pdf
Your test was performed sighted. This led to your conclusion of sonic differences between the devices.
LFEer likes this.

Audiophile fanboy beliefs are based on myth, superstition and ego.
auronihilist is offline  
post #111 of 185 Old 05-18-2017, 08:52 AM
Advanced Member
 
Tomas2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 742
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 459 Post(s)
Liked: 731
Quote:
Originally Posted by auronihilist View Post
Your test was performed sighted. This led to your conclusion of sonic differences between the devices.
Nonsense

No expectation bias, just careful subjective analysis. This was never a "test" ...only an observation on my part.

SAMSUNG QLED | ROTEL | MOREL | M&K | HAFLER | TECHNICS SP-25
Tomas2 is offline  
post #112 of 185 Old 05-18-2017, 09:57 AM
 
LFEer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,243
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 818 Post(s)
Liked: 532
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomas2 View Post
just careful subjective analysis.
Fine. Subjective comparison will result in subjective data. If you want objective data, you will have to do objective comparison.
auronihilist likes this.
LFEer is offline  
post #113 of 185 Old 05-18-2017, 10:25 AM
Advanced Member
 
Tomas2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 742
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 459 Post(s)
Liked: 731
Quote:
Originally Posted by LFEer View Post
Fine. Subjective comparison will result in subjective data. If you want objective data, you will have to do objective comparison.
Fine detail / cues embedded within complex audio signals can NOT be measured. Never will be...

Enjoy the emperors new clothes !
Scotth3886 and Jady Jenkins like this.

SAMSUNG QLED | ROTEL | MOREL | M&K | HAFLER | TECHNICS SP-25

Last edited by Tomas2; 05-18-2017 at 11:25 AM.
Tomas2 is offline  
post #114 of 185 Old 05-18-2017, 10:28 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ratman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Collingswood, N.J.
Posts: 19,343
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2358 Post(s)
Liked: 2211
Or the elephant in the closet.
auronihilist likes this.
Ratman is offline  
post #115 of 185 Old 05-18-2017, 12:11 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
A9X-308's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 8,321
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1792 Post(s)
Liked: 1484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomas2 View Post
Fine detail / cues embedded within complex audio signals can NOT be measured. Never will be...
What a load of BS. It's easy to measure far better than any human can hear.
GIEGAR and auronihilist like this.

“You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.” Chuck Palahniuk
A9X-308 is offline  
post #116 of 185 Old 05-18-2017, 12:55 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Russ69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,518
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1065 Post(s)
Liked: 614
Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post
What a load of BS. It's easy to measure far better than any human can hear.
Too bad that a measurement can't tell you how a loudspeaker sounds. The manufacturers could just paste the spec sheet to the box and the retailers could shut down the sound rooms and save a bunch of money.
Jady Jenkins likes this.

__________________________

"Oh I'm sorry, is this a five minute argument, or the full half hour?"
Russ69 is offline  
post #117 of 185 Old 05-18-2017, 12:57 PM
Advanced Member
 
Tomas2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 742
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 459 Post(s)
Liked: 731
Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post
What a load of BS. It's easy to measure far better than any human can hear.
If I present you with two different 2-channel encodings:

1) Standard XY matrix

2) MS (Mid-Side) matrix

and I ask you without knowing what made them, what's different about the samples ? ...you would not be able to come up with the math that created sample #2. Nor could you design a circuit that would be able to identify which format that it was contrived from just by sampling and analyzing the two signals.

Cheers
Jady Jenkins likes this.

SAMSUNG QLED | ROTEL | MOREL | M&K | HAFLER | TECHNICS SP-25
Tomas2 is offline  
post #118 of 185 Old 05-18-2017, 01:01 PM
Senior Member
 
auronihilist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 202
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 137 Post(s)
Liked: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomas2 View Post
Fine detail / cues embedded within complex audio signals can NOT be measured. Never will be...

Enjoy the emperors new clothes !
The Emperor's New Clothes. I remember that book when I was a kid. A great story by Hans Christian Andersen.

A vain emperor who cares about nothing except wearing and displaying clothes hires two weavers who promise him the finest, best suit of clothes from a fabric invisible to anyone who is either unfit for his position or "hopelessly stupid".

Here's the modern-day audiophile hi-fi translation:

A vain placebophile who cares about nothing except subjectively listening to and displaying bling audiophile components and then listens to high commissioned hi-fi sales people who promise him the finest, most expensive stereo components with a sound invisible to anyone who is either unfit for his position or is "hopelessly deaf".
LFEer and Saywhat4118 like this.

Audiophile fanboy beliefs are based on myth, superstition and ego.
auronihilist is offline  
post #119 of 185 Old 05-18-2017, 01:03 PM
Senior Member
 
auronihilist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 202
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 137 Post(s)
Liked: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ69 View Post
Too bad that a measurement can't tell you how a loudspeaker sounds. The manufacturers could just paste the spec sheet to the box and the retailers could shut down the sound rooms and save a bunch of money.
Tomas2 subjectively tested amplifiers not speakers.
GIEGAR likes this.

Audiophile fanboy beliefs are based on myth, superstition and ego.
auronihilist is offline  
post #120 of 185 Old 05-18-2017, 01:05 PM
Advanced Member
 
Tomas2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 742
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 459 Post(s)
Liked: 731
Quote:
Originally Posted by auronihilist View Post
Tomas2 subjectively tested amplifiers not speakers.
Answer post #117 please

Merci'

SAMSUNG QLED | ROTEL | MOREL | M&K | HAFLER | TECHNICS SP-25
Tomas2 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply 2-Channel Audio

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off