Do You UpSample Your Digital Music - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 10Likes
  • 1 Post By Garry R
  • 3 Post By Ratman
  • 2 Post By Airsculpture
  • 1 Post By Garry R
  • 1 Post By Rgb
  • 1 Post By Confuse_upgraditis
  • 1 Post By Timothy Wright
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 26 Old 06-04-2017, 12:18 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 112
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Do You UpSample Your Digital Music

System:

Raspberry PI-3 utilizing Moode Image Release: 3.7, 2017-05-25
HIFIBerry Dac Pro -excellent BurrBrown based DAC
RCA out to Berhinger Ultragraph Pro XLR out
To Crown XLS 1002 RCA out to
20 year old Mission Argonauts Towers
small room 12X15X8 carpet no other sound properties

CD's Ripped to MP3 24 bit, 44.1 kHz, Stereo Rate: 320 kbps using Exact Copy software


I have been using the Berhinger to get the room correction and to make it sound right for me

Ok Back to the question asked

The latest version of the Moode software allows you to upsample based on my HIFIBerry DAC as seen below

Input Processing
Source: NAS/MusicDrive/Enya/Amarantine/01 Less Than a Pearl.mp3
Encoded at: Unknown
Decoded to: 24 bit, 44.1 kHz, Stereo
Rate: 320 kbps
DSP Operations
Resampling: 32 bit, 192 kHz, Stereo (SoX very high quality)
Crossfeed: off
Equalizer: off
Chip options: Low latency IIR with de-emphasis, aVol=0 dB, aPbb=0 dB
Volume: Software (MPD 32-bit float with dither)
Output Stream
Format: 32 bit, 192 kHz, Stereo
Rate: 12.288 mbps
Audio Device
Device: HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro
Chip: Burr Brown PCM5122
Architecture: Sigma/Delta Advanced Segment 24 bit 192 kHz
Interface: I2S

With this setting I have flat lined the Berhinger ( no +- Adjustments )

I like this better than before, soundstage slightly better ( greater depth ) as well as what I would describe there just seems to be more of the music to listen to.

Everything I read says if the source material does not change then more sampling or even upsampling should not make any difference

Has anyone else played with upsampling and if so did you like results

Thanks
JimMeader is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 26 Old 06-05-2017, 09:04 AM
Member
 
Garry R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 179
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 72 Post(s)
Liked: 95
Do I? No. If you think it sounds better then that's all that matters.
eljaycanuck likes this.

Yamaha, Tannoy, & Polk
Garry R is offline  
post #3 of 26 Old 06-05-2017, 09:07 AM
Advanced Member
 
Airsculpture's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: English but in Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Posts: 941
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 501 Post(s)
Liked: 623
You can't get a Rolls Royce from a Ford


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sony XBR65X900E, Oppo UDP-203 Universal Player
Front L&R - Polk TSx550t, Centre - Polk CSiA6 all in Cherry
Surrounds & Rears - Mission 77DS & Mission 780s
Subwoofer - Polk PSW125 in Cherry
Receiver - Marantz SR6012
Airsculpture is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 26 Old 06-05-2017, 09:57 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ratman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Collingswood, N.J.
Posts: 20,641
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2932 Post(s)
Liked: 3008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airsculpture View Post
You can't get a Rolls Royce from a Ford
Only with VW's




If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough – Albert Einstein
Ratman is online now  
post #5 of 26 Old 06-05-2017, 11:47 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Russ69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,518
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1070 Post(s)
Liked: 614
No I don't unless I have to process it to get it to play.

__________________________

"Oh I'm sorry, is this a five minute argument, or the full half hour?"
Russ69 is offline  
post #6 of 26 Old 06-06-2017, 03:36 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Frank Derks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Region A,B,C
Posts: 2,585
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 613 Post(s)
Liked: 462
Why copy cd's to mp3? It doesn't make sense to use a lossy format and then upsample through your media player/dac. This upsampling does not magically restore the quality lost from the conversion to mp3.


I standardize everything to 2496 as this is the sample rate the dsp engine is working with and it is the default sample rate of the many dvda's ripped to the server.
I copied everything (CD, DVDA multichannel) to 24bit 96kHz flac files. Ripping cd with foobar using the sox upsampler plugin twice in a row: first upsample to 24bit/176.4 and then downsample to 2496.
This prevents a couple of sample rate conversions in the digital path that would have occurred anyway otherwise.


Upsampling cd's doesn't improve the audio quality.

Stereo is simply Multichannel light.
Frank Derks is offline  
post #7 of 26 Old 06-06-2017, 08:06 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
balky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,231
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 289 Post(s)
Liked: 209
IMO, you should do as best as you can to not re-sample / upsample / downsample...

You should get a DAC that supports automatic sample rate switching and also avoid using inbuilt computer audio subsystem... (Windows or Linux)

I have two RPis both installed with hifiberry digi+ connected via coax to external non-usb DACs.

As has been said already, it doesn't sound correct to first compress your audio to MP3 and then upsample playback in a DAC... I'm almost certain the DAC you're using might simply be performing a "loudness" function which you imagine sounds better than the MP3 you're playing
balky is offline  
post #8 of 26 Old 06-06-2017, 06:19 PM
Member
 
rantzmar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 113
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Well...I use Jriver to rip all my CD's, and convert/upsample to DSD128 and send to my DSD DAC. Seems like you guys frown on said activity.
rantzmar is offline  
post #9 of 26 Old 06-06-2017, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 112
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Totally understand that mp3 format was suboptimal but at the time it was used, and I found it interesting that having the DAC upsample seemed to help listening enjoyment ( since it could not increase quality)

I may now go back and rerip all my cd's to the higher rate and different file format.

Question is - If the same CD source is used and then rip at 24/96 or higher will the net sound effect be similar or better. Basically the higher rates Only Allow for more data which may or may not be used depending on the source material it self

Bottom line I do enjoy my system as is and it still puts a smile on my face when I listen to my music so reripping is not a big priority, but probably a future project to do.

As to the comment that the upsampling was just playing louder, I really do not believe that was the case, but always possible as I listen to music way below anything close to reference levels ie seldom past 50% volume

Thanks for all your comments
JimMeader is offline  
post #10 of 26 Old 06-06-2017, 06:30 PM
Advanced Member
 
Airsculpture's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: English but in Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Posts: 941
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 501 Post(s)
Liked: 623
Zero point ripping a CD to 24/96


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
jfbar1 and rnsound like this.

Sony XBR65X900E, Oppo UDP-203 Universal Player
Front L&R - Polk TSx550t, Centre - Polk CSiA6 all in Cherry
Surrounds & Rears - Mission 77DS & Mission 780s
Subwoofer - Polk PSW125 in Cherry
Receiver - Marantz SR6012
Airsculpture is offline  
post #11 of 26 Old 06-06-2017, 07:06 PM
Senior Member
 
ve3fnd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 212
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 110 Post(s)
Liked: 79
I do not, I was told by many and seen on other forums not to up sample. I have done some tests and found that listening to 44khz in 44khz and 96khz in 96khz etcetera, to sound best. That's my take anyways. If up sampling sounds better to your ears, by all means do it.

2ch setup - Martin Logan motion 40 speakers and dynamo 700 sub, Micromega PA-20 preamp and PW-400 power amplifier, Nordost Blue Heaven speaker cable, Teac UD-503 DAC with Jriver for Flac and DSD audio, Denon 1930CI- DVD/ SACD player, Project Elemental Turntable. OTG setup - Ipad mini 3, CHORD MOJO, Sennheiser Momentum headphones.
ve3fnd is offline  
post #12 of 26 Old 06-07-2017, 03:20 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
balky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,231
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 289 Post(s)
Liked: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimMeader View Post
Totally understand that mp3 format was suboptimal but at the time it was used, and I found it interesting that having the DAC upsample seemed to help listening enjoyment ( since it could not increase quality)

I may now go back and rerip all my cd's to the higher rate and different file format.

Question is - If the same CD source is used and then rip at 24/96 or higher will the net sound effect be similar or better. Basically the higher rates Only Allow for more data which may or may not be used depending on the source material it self

Bottom line I do enjoy my system as is and it still puts a smile on my face when I listen to my music so reripping is not a big priority, but probably a future project to do.

As to the comment that the upsampling was just playing louder, I really do not believe that was the case, but always possible as I listen to music way below anything close to reference levels ie seldom past 50% volume

Thanks for all your comments
Ripping a CD to 24/96 or higher will only result in usage of more disc space... on a good system the sound should be similar, and can not be better since all that is being done is representing 16/44.1 data in a 24/96 space...

In other words, audio information that is not available in the source material cannot be made up from increasing sampling rate... otherwise, something is wrong or not correctly set in the ripping software...
balky is offline  
post #13 of 26 Old 06-07-2017, 04:07 AM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 927
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 214 Post(s)
Liked: 1974
I only rip to wav files. I like it simple and storage is cheap now. IMHO
leecreek is online now  
post #14 of 26 Old 06-07-2017, 06:26 AM
Member
 
Garry R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 179
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 72 Post(s)
Liked: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimMeader View Post

Question is - If the same CD source is used and then rip at 24/96 or higher will the net sound effect be similar or better. Basically the higher rates Only Allow for more data which may or may not be used depending on the source material it self
The fidelity will remain the same. All you'd be doing is putting the same content into a larger bit bucket.
rnsound likes this.

Yamaha, Tannoy, & Polk
Garry R is offline  
post #15 of 26 Old 06-07-2017, 10:38 AM
Member
 
rantzmar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 113
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Ripping can't add information that's not there...but when ripping and up sampling a higher sample rate, you're actually padding over what's already there. So some of the more subtle nuances may become more audible. This is why you seem to hear more detail. There are many factors in hearing a difference. Different software offer different filtering....some better than others....some filters are good, some aren't. It also depends on the DAC..in my case, I use two DSD DAC's....one by iFI and the other by Marantz. I can hear the difference in 44.1 and 5.6 (128)
Digitized CD's samples are 44.1 thousand times per second, producing 16-bit PCM samples. DSD uses pulse density modulation (PDM) to encode 2,822,400 1-bit samples per second which is 64 times the CD sampling rate. Yes it uses more space....but to my ears its worth it.
rantzmar is offline  
post #16 of 26 Old 06-07-2017, 12:35 PM
Senior Member
 
Timothy Wright's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 322
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 187 Post(s)
Liked: 37
I use dBpoweramp to rip to flac, which is lossless. I don't think padding with made up detail is productive or helpful. Sometimes I rip to mp3 format just so I can send a song to a friend. They are also lossless MP3 files.

I advocate that you archive your music in some lossless format so that you always can have the original in a perfect and complete way.

If next week a new file format becomes the fashion you can always bulk convert from your master archive.

Using your method at some point you will be adding detail that does not belong, artifacts, and you will have screwed your self.
Timothy Wright is offline  
post #17 of 26 Old 06-08-2017, 02:43 AM
Member
 
rantzmar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 113
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Who said detail was made up? The detail is already there. Some of the small nuances aren't audible as much. The padding makes it audible. I don't do downloads....to me they are to expensive for what you get. I buy CD's from ebay and rip and store the CD. I always have them. How can you add detail that's not on the CD? I've been doing it like this from 2015 and have had no issues.....music is lovely, much better than MP3 files which you can get from Amazon down loads. When not listening to vinyl, its DSD 128. Have you ever down loaded a DSD 128 file from Acoustic sounds?
rantzmar is offline  
post #18 of 26 Old 06-08-2017, 05:03 AM
Senior Member
 
Timothy Wright's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 322
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 187 Post(s)
Liked: 37
We have much in common, neither one of us downloads mp3 files. We both rip music from CDs we purchase.

To make an analogy, my TV upscale from lower resolution to 4k. It does it well and I never had any problem with artifacts of detail "made up". In general I am satisfied with the technology.

If in the same way you are satisfied with up scaling your music, in your own home I'm not the music police.

There are those who argue that normal well recorded CDs are all high quality speakers can accurately reproduce. They argue that HD CDs and SACD provide no acoustic real benefit.

When one up scales video it is a simple mathematical process when, for example, the information in one pixel becomes represented by four pixels or eight pixels. The granularity in the image becomes larger, color and contrast and detail should remain unchanged. No artifacts should ever be introduced.

I watch 480p on a 3840 screen almost every day and again in general I'm happy with the results. I would make the case that that video up scaling well is simpler than audio up scaling with the same quality expectations. Either the process changes nothing and it is padding, or it does some interpolation and it adds detail.

I would argue that neither is helpful or desirable. I am a Pittsburgh Steeler fan, I have Steeler videos in broadcast quality going back to the 1970's. I never watch them any more. I find the quality insufferable. One can't up scale sports videos well and the missing detail becomes critical. I will argue that no method exists to take those low quality Steeler video and add back the missing detail and do a good job. In that critical application I am not happy with up scaling.

Let me ask you this. Say some one gave you a poor quality mp3 file, is there any process or method to restore that file to lossless quality original? If there is then the same methods would work to take any CD quality recording and make it SACD quality; and I don't think that is possible to do well.
Timothy Wright is offline  
post #19 of 26 Old 06-08-2017, 08:21 AM
Member
 
rantzmar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 113
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Tom....I'm a simple laymen.... I've never ever tried to up sample a mp3 file in my life. All I do is get a CD, (not a mp3 file)......rip it...have the software up sample/convert to DSD 128 and send that to my DSD DAC. I enjoy it.... Sounds quality is better than the CD. The proof is in the hearing. Audiophiles take CD's, rip them and up sample to SACD quality....its called ripping and up sampling to DSD 64. If you can't hear it, then there are factors to why you can't hear it. If what you are saying is true...then making and selling DSD DAC's and all that comes with that is one of the biggest audio frauds in history.
rantzmar is offline  
post #20 of 26 Old 06-08-2017, 11:15 AM
Rgb
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Rgb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 8,690
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 824 Post(s)
Liked: 1110
In any serious 2ch discussion, never mention/use any lossy codec (MP3/aac/etc) as source material, only lossless wav/aiff/flac, please

That said, in the past I might have said "never" up/down convert any digital audio nor apply any processing- just play natively as-is, bit perfect, still "sound" advice.

However, when talking CD/redbook 44.1Khz, the idea would be to upsample to 88.2/96 or higher in order to avoid the "brick wall" filter applied to 44.1Khz audio at playback, moving the filter well beyond 20khz and allowing a more gentle slope.
Darth Francis likes this.
Rgb is offline  
post #21 of 26 Old 06-09-2017, 05:56 PM
Member
 
Confuse_upgraditis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 31
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 20
@JimMeader .....are you absolutely sure that your PCM DAC has the capability of actually processing 24 bits and provide that kind of dynamic range? I understand a lot of marketing material exist from almost all DAC manufacturers and millions of forum posts exist from thousands of users that tout more than 20 bits! Very few provide scientific evidences, Audio Engineering Society publications etc. I am not talking about someone saying that he/she can hear subtle differences with his/her equipment and in his/her room. I am talking about companies providing further literature on their claims.

Are you feeling that your sound quality is not optimal because you feed mp3s? As mentioned above by several other members, one relatively easy way to enhance sound quality is by using some type of loose-less files.........may be, if you ca hear the difference. There are several audio professional stalwarts who believe that red book quality is enough, if the DAC can actually squeeze everything out of it!

Non Over Sampling DACs are being introduces at a greater rate or with a NOS filter incorporated currently than ever before for both PCM and DSD file types.

I read that you mentioned it would be impractical to rip all those music files again to loose-less files. I get it There are other forums where many members believe the sonic differences between files with different bit depths are nominal. You may want go there and check it yourself. One such forum starts with Hyd....... I do not want to mention names of other forums as I do not know whether that is a violation of rules.

You may find something interesting by reading about it from a different perspective. Cheers
Confuse_upgraditis is offline  
post #22 of 26 Old 06-09-2017, 06:24 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
CruelInventions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Chicago-ish
Posts: 6,737
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1332 Post(s)
Liked: 1559
Quote:
Originally Posted by Confuse_upgraditis View Post


I read that you mentioned it would be impractical to rip all those music files again to loose-less files. I get it There are other forums where many members believe the sonic differences between files with different bit depths are nominal. You may want go there and check it yourself.
You make some useful points but at the risk of coming off all school-marmish here, your grammatical phrasing of "loose-less" is very undermining. It's "lossless" or "loss-less". Or, at the very least go with, "lose-less" instead. "loose" is for non-tight lips that are sinking ships.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Confuse_upgraditis View Post


One such forum starts with Hyd....... I do not want to mention names of other forums as I do not know whether that is a violation of rules.

You may find something interesting by reading about it from a different perspective. Cheers
I got you covered. It's HydrogenAudio.org.

Quote:
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool. ~ Richard P. Feynman
CruelInventions is online now  
post #23 of 26 Old 06-09-2017, 06:54 PM
Member
 
Confuse_upgraditis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 31
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 20
@CruelInventions ...........thank you for correcting my language and making the point clearer to the OP and everyone else
CruelInventions likes this.
Confuse_upgraditis is offline  
post #24 of 26 Old 06-10-2017, 11:25 AM
Senior Member
 
Timothy Wright's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 322
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 187 Post(s)
Liked: 37
There is a learning curve, I think I ripped all my CD maybe four times before I settled on FLAC and lossless mp3. That would be some 64,000 songs. If I put in 12-14 hour days I can rip all my CDs in less than a week, I have two quick PCs with 3 optical drives each. When I start a ripping project I start by ordering (6) new optical drives because even if they are good when I start the project they will be shot at the end of the project. When I get errors on several rips often a fresh optical drive will make all the problems go away.

First time I ripped to mid quality mp3 files, not up to standards. The second to the last time I was careless entering metadata. If you care about things like year of issue and composer one needs to be meticulous about the meta data during the ripping process. I learned to be organized and disciplined about genera, it seems trivial but that is how my collection is organized, having one recording artist's work in 3-4 different genera does not help.

That is the reason folks advise new guys to know what they are doing and have a well thought out plan before they start. Take your time, don't rush, you will get the quality of project you put into it.

I have some 20,000 movies on my server, every week I find a title I neglected to include the subtitles, I simply go back, find the DVD and re-rip the DVD.

I've never lost all my music and movies but I keep them on two different sets of PC hard drives, and two different NAS that mirror each other. All in all I have at least 4 copies of everything.

And someone already mentioned, archive the original performance, not some correction, neither up sampled nor down sampled. If you correct every rip for room correction, when you listen in a different room all that work is wasted. Always correct at listening time.
balky likes this.

Last edited by Timothy Wright; 06-10-2017 at 11:35 AM.
Timothy Wright is offline  
post #25 of 26 Old 06-11-2017, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 112
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Status Update

Re-Ripping my music CD's via Exact Copy (EAC) to both bit perfect .wav files as well as Flac files.

I have found from a lot of reading, is that upsampling impacts the soundstage of the music predominately, as it can not change the actual music.

I have also found that MOST CD Players upsample by default, the success is based the chip used and or the software in the system. You can read many expensive standalone CD Players all talk about their sound stage and when you read further they all upsample

How upsampling impacts the sound stage I have no clue, but it works on my system when using my CD Player as well as using my HIFI Dac Pro

Given my existing MP3 files on a NAS drive and played by my Raspberry Pi/HiFiBerry upsampling to 24/192 seems to works best

Will report tests of the Wav versus Flac file test later

One last thing the HiFi Berry Dac feeds a Crown XLS 1002 a very basic Class D amp that does no additional signal processing

Last edited by JimMeader; 06-11-2017 at 02:49 PM. Reason: adding comment
JimMeader is offline  
post #26 of 26 Old 06-11-2017, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 112
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 31
If anyone has an interest in the technical capabilities of the HiFiBerry Dac Plus the following did one of the best technical reviews I have found

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2016/1...hifiberry.html
JimMeader is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply 2-Channel Audio

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off