High end audio has become obsolete...... - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 515 Old 07-21-2017, 03:26 AM
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Originally Posted by The Murderousone View Post
I never said anyone should jump ship from the 803d's.....i said my speakers in my setup could easily compete with what i heard. Simple as that.
Hearing varies and this can have a big impact on speaker preferences. As was pointed out by Floyd Toole in another thread, folks with good hearing have consistent preference ratings for well measured and poorly measured speakers, but those with poor hearing are inconsistent with their preference ratings, particularly when it comes to speakers with less than stellar accuracy and neutrality. But both groups consistently prefer accurate and neutral speakers. I have no idea how your speakers measure. Could be fantastic as price has little correlation to potential sound quality.

However, there is a demonstrable difference between speakers that measure great vs. those that don't, regardless of price.
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post #32 of 515 Old 07-21-2017, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eljr View Post
and you heard, among others 803d...

honest, this is the kind of wild statement that is as outrageous as the "subjectivists" claiming their new wire transformed their sound.

Both sides need to stop the outlandishness.

IMHO

Enjoy
Before I dig deeper into this. I have one question. What is your listening experience with the RBH R55TI's and Fluance Signature series towers?
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post #33 of 515 Old 07-21-2017, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by The Murderousone View Post
Before I dig deeper into this. I have one question. What is your listening experience with the RBH R55TI's and Fluance Signature series towers?
I am not playing. Have it your way. All speakers sound the same.
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What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.
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post #34 of 515 Old 07-21-2017, 11:00 AM
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Not obsolete at all. Just costs a few bucks.


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post #35 of 515 Old 07-21-2017, 11:52 AM
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Ignorance is bliss.

Some people think a steak at Denny's tastes the same as one from Mastro's. 'Nough said.

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post #36 of 515 Old 07-21-2017, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by drewTT View Post
Ignorance is bliss.

Some people think a steak at Denny's tastes the same as one from Mastro's. 'Nough said.

But ButT they measure the same
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post #37 of 515 Old 07-21-2017, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
But ButT they measure the same
they merely weigh the same

one is marbled and aged, one is not

What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.
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post #38 of 515 Old 07-21-2017, 01:08 PM
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One thing to consider in auditioning equipment is the unfamiliar set up and room. Hearing a component in your own room, where you are really familiar with the sound you get in that room, can bring good insight into any differences.

It reminds me of years ago when I was selecting between getting a bigger plasma TV or a projector for movies. I of course was aware of projection, had demoed them in stores and thought they were cool, but still wasn't sold. It wasn't until I borrowed a friend's crappy little business projector to try out on my wall that I had my epiphany. Seeing an image projected that size IN MY OWN ROOM, a place where I was used to a much smaller image, seemed to make all the difference in term of impact. It was a holy crap moment and then I was sold.

Similarly, the differences a component, in this case high end speaker, may display can show up as more obvious if you have the chance to put it in your own room. Then you have the chance to dial it in and see what it's really capable of, and then you may "get it" more when you are sitting in the same chair you always listen in, and find yourself hearing things in a way they haven't been presented before.

I've never heard a speaker sound as good or impressive in a store as it did once I had time to dial it in at home. Some speakers don't end up impressing me more than what I had, others do and those ones stay. I've been on a speaker search the last year or so and have auditioned numerous well regarded speakers.
I've found myself feeling "meh" about a number of them, but have to admit that I would probably be more impressed if they spent time in my home system.
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post #39 of 515 Old 07-21-2017, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
Not obsolete at all. Just costs a few bucks.


https://youtu.be/Tu5Ts78Xe5M
That is a fantastic recording of a great pair of speakers in action. Would have loved to have heard that, standing in front of the Von Schweikerts. About 15 years ago, I discovered that the Von Schweikert factory was down in San Diego. Called up, Albert answered and I asked if I could come down for a listen. I spent an hour or so with him while listening to the VR-5's and his new VR 4.5's in action. He was not a fan of redbook CD's at the time and often opted to play music he recorded himself. A fun afternoon.
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post #40 of 515 Old 07-21-2017, 01:42 PM
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As far as production and availability is concerned. Most of the hi fidelity ways of the past are simply not available anymore. There was a time of preference for separates, and one could look to 50 brands of high quality pre amps and amplifiers. For the most part, this has disappeared from the market place.

All the Receivers for home theater are all switching over to class d. Removing toroidal supplies completely , adding another factor in fidelity not quite being the same.

https://discuss.avscience.com/index.php?topic=459.60
A Good amplifier requires a adequate power supply, It does not matter what the amplifier is capable of if the power supply will not provide the power required. Most amplifiers have under rated power supplies. It is up to you to make sure you get the ones that are least under rated if at all.
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post #41 of 515 Old 07-21-2017, 01:48 PM
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Visual bias and knowing the price destroys the ability to properly evaluate what sounds best.
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I'm not talking about the kind of speakers you just listen to, I'm talking about the kind of sound you can feel.
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post #42 of 515 Old 07-21-2017, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post
I am not playing. Have it your way. All speakers sound the same.
it was a honest question. but consider you seem to be a good sport at taking your "L" consider us done.
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post #43 of 515 Old 07-21-2017, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 16hz lover View Post
Visual bias and knowing the price destroys the ability to properly evaluate what sounds best.
it doesn't in my book, i discussed in detail earlier
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post #44 of 515 Old 07-21-2017, 01:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by drewTT View Post
Ignorance is bliss.

Some people think a steak at Denny's tastes the same as one from Mastro's. 'Nough said.
and some people think a rolex tells/keeps time better than a casio or timex......to each it's own....
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post #45 of 515 Old 07-21-2017, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by drewTT View Post
Ignorance is bliss.

Some people think a steak at Denny's tastes the same as one from Mastro's. 'Nough said.
The lobster mashed potatoes at Mastro's are like crack!
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post #46 of 515 Old 07-21-2017, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
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I also just also want to add, i understand the appeal of the high end expensive gear, it's just like a rolex or or patek phillipe, it's just something we want and it has value to us, and it is very cool....no doubt....just the look of the B&W diamonds being ran by mac/ar/classe gear is a sight to behold i get it and i understand.....i love high end gear....i'm just not going to be blind to the many myths of the game.....
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post #47 of 515 Old 07-21-2017, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by The Murderousone View Post
and some people think a rolex tells/keeps time better than a casio or timex......to each it's own....
At the risk of offending someone with such an ominous username, the analogy of fine watches and high-end audio does not work. If you think it does, you really don't understand horology (as your use of Rolex as an example of a high-end watch clearly demonstrates).
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post #48 of 515 Old 07-21-2017, 02:25 PM
 
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What was playing the music you were listening to? What was the source download, CD, 8 track, or LP?

Have you ever had your hearing tested. Not meant to insult but in all seriousness have you? Are you over 50yo?

Never been impressed with ML gear especially the latest stuff.

Also many high end dealers have no clue about how to properly set up the equipment they sell. The listening room and proper set up is damn important.

If you prefer digital find a good Linn dealer and listen to the recordings you listened to with the B&W's on all Linn system.
Then listen to same recordings in LP form. Finally listen to some Maggie 3.7's with an Audio Research or CJ tube and preamp
and a good Linn, Sota, or VPI turntable.

Finally some electronics just dont work well with some speakers.

Watches I beat the crap out of mine so I have digital Timexes. I also have an old Rolex Daytona that I got when the car I crewing won at the 24hrs of Daytona.
Rolexes, Omegas et al are all about showing off and we advise our clients not to make themselves a target.
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post #49 of 515 Old 07-21-2017, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by johnplayerson View Post
As far as production and availability is concerned. Most of the hi fidelity ways of the past are simply not available anymore. There was a time of preference for separates, and one could look to 50 brands of high quality pre amps and amplifiers. For the most part, this has disappeared from the market place.

All the Receivers for home theater are all switching over to class d. Removing toroidal supplies completely , adding another factor in fidelity not quite being the same.

Far from true. Seems like there's more than there ever was before.
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post #50 of 515 Old 07-21-2017, 05:08 PM - Thread Starter
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[QUOTE=dave2002ti;54444809]What was playing the music you were listening to? What was the source download, CD, 8 track, or LP?


I addressed the music and equipment above...... I am much younger than fifty and my hearing is quite fine.
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post #51 of 515 Old 07-21-2017, 05:22 PM
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post #52 of 515 Old 07-21-2017, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by johnplayerson View Post
Most of the hi fidelity ways of the past are simply not available anymore. There was a time of preference for separates, and one could look to 50 brands of high quality pre amps and amplifiers. For the most part, this has disappeared from the market place.
I have most, but not all, brands of high-end preamplifiers and power amps included in my computer browser's bookmark list. I counted 53 companies. I do not know if their products are obtainable in Canada, but the preamps and power amps from these 53 brands are available for purchase in the United States.
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post #53 of 515 Old 07-21-2017, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shivaji View Post
That is a fantastic recording of a great pair of speakers in action. Would have loved to have heard that, standing in front of the Von Schweikerts. About 15 years ago, I discovered that the Von Schweikert factory was down in San Diego. Called up, Albert answered and I asked if I could come down for a listen. I spent an hour or so with him while listening to the VR-5's and his new VR 4.5's in action. He was not a fan of redbook CD's at the time and often opted to play music he recorded himself. A fun afternoon.

I heard the same combo in Chicago at Axpona. Pretty well fantastic.
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post #54 of 515 Old 07-21-2017, 07:01 PM
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It's all relative. Good sound doesn't have to be crazy expensive. People spend the big bucks to get the last few percent of the performance available. Same with the dude that buys a LaFerrari.

Listening to some good gear in a properly setup room is an ear opening experience.

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post #55 of 515 Old 07-21-2017, 11:15 PM
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High end audio will never completely die because, no matter how it may sound to you, when you walk into some rich guys home and he shows you the 100K system he just bought, HE will be impressed, even if you aren't. Just like Cars, Planes, Yachts, Homes, it's all about bragging rights! Don't even ask how much their wives cost!
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post #56 of 515 Old 07-22-2017, 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post
High end audio will never completely die because, no matter how it may sound to you, when you walk into some rich guys home and he shows you the 100K system he just bought, HE will be impressed, even if you aren't. Just like Cars, Planes, Yachts, Homes, it's all about bragging rights! Don't even ask how much their wives cost!
Is he bragging or are you jealous?

see how that works?


What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.

Last edited by eljr; 07-22-2017 at 02:01 AM.
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post #57 of 515 Old 07-22-2017, 01:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Murderousone View Post
it was a honest question. but consider you seem to be a good sport at taking your "L" consider us done.
There never was an "us," I simply was reading a forum, saw an outlandish claim and called it out.

What does this "L"mean?



Quote:
Originally Posted by The Murderousone View Post
it doesn't in my book, i discussed in detail earlier
then your don't understand bias

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Murderousone View Post
I also just also want to add, i understand the appeal of the high end expensive gear, it's just like a rolex or or patek phillipe, it's just something we want and it has value to us, and it is very cool....no doubt....just the look of the B&W diamonds being ran by mac/ar/classe gear is a sight to behold i get it and i understand.....i love high end gear....i'm just not going to be blind to the many myths of the game.....
You realize, you are doing the mirror opposite of what you claim the more affluent do?
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What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.
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post #58 of 515 Old 07-22-2017, 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post
High end audio will never completely die because, no matter how it may sound to you, when you walk into some rich guys home and he shows you the 100K system he just bought, HE will be impressed, even if you aren't. Just like Cars, Planes, Yachts, Homes, it's all about bragging rights! Don't even ask how much their wives cost!
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post
Is he bragging off or are you jealous?

see how that works?

My thoughts exactly. I'm not sure it's dawned on him that "rich guys" rarely achieve that status by making poor financial decisions. As long as the wealth is achieved through legitimate means, far be it from me to begrudge someone else for pursuing their own happiness.
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post #59 of 515 Old 07-22-2017, 02:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave2002ti View Post
What was playing the music you were listening to? What was the source download, CD, 8 track, or LP?

Have you ever had your hearing tested. Not meant to insult but in all seriousness have you? Are you over 50yo?

Never been impressed with ML gear especially the latest stuff.

Also many high end dealers have no clue about how to properly set up the equipment they sell. The listening room and proper set up is damn important.

If you prefer digital find a good Linn dealer and listen to the recordings you listened to with the B&W's on all Linn system.
Then listen to same recordings in LP form. Finally listen to some Maggie 3.7's with an Audio Research or CJ tube and preamp
and a good Linn, Sota, or VPI turntable.

Finally some electronics just dont work well with some speakers.

Watches I beat the crap out of mine so I have digital Timexes. I also have an old Rolex Daytona that I got when the car I crewing won at the 24hrs of Daytona.
Rolexes, Omegas et al are all about showing off and we advise our clients not to make themselves a target.
I agree with most of what you say, except the part about a Rolex or Omega being all about showing off. I'm not sure what business you are in to dissuade clients from wearing either one, but the SS Daytona in particular is an excellent daily driver due to the ability to be dressed up or down, robust construction while still being of a manageable 40mm diameter and the Caliber 4130 is perhaps the best movement Rolex has ever made and arguably one of the top chronograph movements ever. The co-axial movement in the Omega is almost as good and the Speedmaster in any form is a classic, though I'm partial to the original manual wind "Moonwatch."

If you really want to show off, rock an MB&F or Greubel Forsey and then come talk to me.
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post #60 of 515 Old 07-22-2017, 02:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post
High end audio will never completely die because, no matter how it may sound to you, when you walk into some rich guys home and he shows you the 100K system he just bought, HE will be impressed, even if you aren't. Just like Cars, Planes, Yachts, Homes, it's all about bragging rights! Don't even ask how much their wives cost!
It's actually quite interesting that you mention this. I was just talking to a "rich guy" today and he said that when he's not driving one of his exotic cars or flying in his private plane to a coastal location to sit on his yacht, his favorite pastime is to open the doors to his expansive estate to those less fortunate just to impress them with his stereo system. It's all tubes and analog, of course, mostly to further demonstrate that he has much more money than sense.
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