Cannot decide, A-S801 or R-N803 - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 149 Old 12-21-2017, 03:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Torakusu Yamaha's first company name was (and I swear I'm not making this up): Yamaha Fukin (Organ) Manufacturing Company

That's fukin awesome.
I believe the actual pronunciation is "who-kin" because Japan's tallest mountain Fuji is pronounced "who-jee". Another example I've heard Japanese people say is the city of Tokyo which should be spelled Do-kyo because that's how they pronounce it. But I could be wrong.
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post #62 of 149 Old 12-23-2017, 11:21 PM
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Does anyone know if the R-N803 comes in silver? I don't see it on the Yamaha site as available in that color but the overhead cutaway on the overview page looks to have the silver face. I'm just tired of all my electronics being black boxes.
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post #63 of 149 Old 12-23-2017, 11:27 PM
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In some markets, yes. Sorry, I think the US isn't one of them but you'd have to call them to be sure.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there IS no concept of "accounting for personal taste/preference". As art consumers we don't "pick" the level of bass, nor the tint/brightness of a scene's sky, any more than we pick the ending of a novel or Mona Lisa's type of smile. "High fidelity" means "high truthfulness", faithful to the original artist's intent: an unmodified, neutral, accurate copy of the original master, ideally being exact and with no discernable alterations, aka "transparency".

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post #64 of 149 Old 12-23-2017, 11:39 PM
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Thanks, it looks to be Europe only if I'm not mistaken. Man that's sexy in silver! Take my money otherwise I'm lookin' at you Outlaw 2160.
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post #65 of 149 Old 12-24-2017, 10:46 AM
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Thanks, it looks to be Europe only if I'm not mistaken. Man that's sexy in silver! Take my money otherwise I'm lookin' at you Outlaw 2160.
Well I was shopping around for a new amp, so stopped in at a high-end audio store. The salesman showed me a Simaudio 340i. I listened to it with a couple B&W floor speakers, and it sounded fine! Then he told me the amp was $5,000! I quickly retreated from the store.

I bought my Yamaha A-S801 after reading everything about it. Every review praised the unit, and the technical analysis, if you can believe the graphs and charts, backed them up. The price was right too, $750. I have a pair of Klipsch floorstanders, and they sound great driven by the amp. Also the unit provides a lot of ways to hook stuff up.

I didn't consider the network features of some of the new equipment worth the extra cost or trouble. I'm using an Audioengine D2 to broadcast to the amp. Previous to the D2, I was using the cheaper W3, and I even tried the Chromecast Audio Puck. I didn't care for the puck, since it required WiFi to enable it. Too many problems with security.

Anyway, the A-S801 is a 26-pound monster that runs flawlessly all day long. I sometimes feel I didn't pay enough for it!
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post #66 of 149 Old 12-24-2017, 10:51 AM
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I think the key feature with the RN 803 is the room correction and the digital bass management with ypao. I might be wrong, but I believe that will have a greater impact on the sound in YOUR room versus a slightly better DAC or a slightly better power transformer. Although, elsewhere in this thread it was commented that the amp sections are virtually identical.
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post #67 of 149 Old 12-24-2017, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Cla55clown View Post
Thanks, it looks to be Europe only if I'm not mistaken. Man that's sexy in silver! Take my money otherwise I'm lookin' at you Outlaw 2160.
Yes, with Europe it is much more common to see silver/gold/champagne finishes being offered for the components sold over there vs the USA where your options are typically either black, or if you prefer, black.



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post #68 of 149 Old 12-24-2017, 12:03 PM
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Yes, with Europe it is much more common to see silver/gold/champagne finishes being offered for the components sold over there vs the USA where your options are typically either black, or if you prefer, black.
Black was completely unheard of in the early years yet is now the defacto standard. For ten points, everyone, explain the specifics of how and why black electronics came to be so popular. It's a very interesting story.
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post #69 of 149 Old 12-24-2017, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Cla55clown View Post
I think the key feature with the RN 803 is the room correction and the digital bass management with ypao. I might be wrong, but I believe that will have a greater impact on the sound in YOUR room versus a slightly better DAC or a slightly better power transformer.
This is very much the case. One changes the sound audibly [YPAO] and the other does zip.
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post #70 of 149 Old 12-24-2017, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Black was completely unheard of in the early years yet is now the defacto standard. For ten points, everyone, explain the specifics of how and why black electronics came to be so popular. It's a very interesting story.
I'll take a shot. Came about in the 80s with more electronics being made of plastic. Plastic is cheaper to produce and maybe black also will hide cosmetic defects in the material. Am I close?
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post #71 of 149 Old 12-24-2017, 01:03 PM
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^Sorry, no cigar, but you get an A for effort.

P.S. My understanding is that despite the common claim that black carbon is added to the vinyl used to press LPs is to help conduct away/reduce static electricity is not actually true. Black is added because it helps mask tiny bubbles and other visual imperfections so people don't return the record to the store as "defective".

Interestingly one of the very first stereo LPs ever produced, c.1958/59 was multi-color:


[Although there were black mono records and black 78s before this date]

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post #72 of 149 Old 12-24-2017, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
This is very much the case. One changes the sound audibly [YPAO] and the other does zip.
So is the consensus that without price as a factor, the R-N803 is a better option vs. A-S701 or 801?

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post #73 of 149 Old 12-24-2017, 01:20 PM
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If you are looking for better sound you should consider changing your room acoustics, your speakers, or their positioning [spacing, toe-in, tilt, height, etc.] not your amplifier. That's my vote.
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post #74 of 149 Old 12-24-2017, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Cla55clown View Post
I think the key feature with the RN 803 is the room correction and the digital bass management with ypao. I might be wrong, but I believe that will have a greater impact on the sound in YOUR room versus a slightly better DAC or a slightly better power transformer. Although, elsewhere in this thread it was commented that the amp sections are virtually identical.
whathifi.com recently posted a review on the R-N803. The review was not as positive as I would have expected. I am not sure how much stock to put into their reviews. Their review of the A-S501 was not 5 star either. That one is a little puzzling, as they loved the A-S500, which was very similar, but included less features and supposedly did not sound as good as the 501.
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post #75 of 149 Old 12-24-2017, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by raceredmustang View Post
So is the consensus that without price as a factor, the R-N803 is a better option vs. A-S701 or 801?

My money, I would still go AS 701 or 801 if you feel you need to do amplifier, but frankly, I would do something with the Klipsch first. Now true, I cheaped out and went AS 301 for my budget system, but that was to show grandson and friends that one can assemble perfectly musical system for $1,000 or including (of course) a turntable. Well, not its perfect, but sins of omission versus commission.

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post #76 of 149 Old 12-25-2017, 12:21 AM
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In some markets, yes. Sorry, I think the US isn't one of them but you'd have to call them to be sure.
This is gorgeous. I wanted to buy the silver one but it is not available in US. Now I have to deal with all the fingerprints.
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post #77 of 149 Old 12-25-2017, 02:31 AM
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Originally Posted by raceredmustang View Post
whathifi.com recently posted a review on the R-N803. The review was not as positive as I would have expected. I am not sure how much stock to put into their reviews. Their review of the A-S501 was not 5 star either. That one is a little puzzling, as they loved the A-S500, which was very similar, but included less features and supposedly did not sound as good as the 501.
I take their reviews with a grain of salt. They tend to review British companies very good, others, may less so.

I agree with the poster, that commented that YPAO room correction and bass management may make more difference than the better DAC in the 801. The n803 still has a 192/24 dac. I also agree with the poster that commented that room acoustics can make a huge difference; the problem is that many like myself live in a house where the listening area also happens to be a living or great room and the better half frowns on acoustical treatments, so room correction is one way to deal with this. I'd own this receiver if I just hadn't upgraded to something right before this came out.

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post #78 of 149 Old 12-25-2017, 02:46 AM
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Originally Posted by planed View Post
This is gorgeous. I wanted to buy the silver one but it is not available in US. Now I have to deal with all the fingerprints.

If was shopping for an integrated or receiver in this price range, just the availability of silver (which I know it's not) would have pushed me this direction. I've always thought that the silver Yamaha product looks great and much better than the black. I tried real hard when I bought the AS301 to get silver which is available in other markets, but they're not 120v 60hz. And given that this system uses stand mounts, bass management is something that could be helpful. Although, to date it's not much of an issue to me because I rarely play this one loudly anyway.

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post #79 of 149 Old 12-25-2017, 10:12 AM
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whathifi.com recently posted a review on the R-N803. The review was not as positive as I would have expected. I am not sure how much stock to put into their reviews. Their review of the A-S501 was not 5 star either. That one is a little puzzling, as they loved the A-S500, which was very similar, but included less features and supposedly did not sound as good as the 501.
It seems that anything called 'receiver' is not going to sound as good as something called 'integrated' - and anything called 'preamp/amp' will automatically sound better than receiver & integrated. Been that way for the past 50 years I've been playing in this hobby and it doesn't look like much has changed in that span of time. FWIW one of the better sounding stereo receivers I've owned to date was an Onkyo TX-8050. The Song Towers might have helped.

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post #80 of 149 Old 12-25-2017, 10:56 AM
 
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FWIW one of the better sounding stereo receivers I've owned to date was
How do you determine the sound quality of receiver/s? I guess you do that by listening but how do you conduct such test? Please fill me in if I'm missing something.
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post #81 of 149 Old 12-25-2017, 11:26 AM
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This is gorgeous. I wanted to buy the silver one but it is not available in US.
Silver designs are sometimes sold in the US (if you know where to look) as gray market [which means US warranty coverage by Yamaha is unlikely but keep in mind failure within that time is statistically unlikely and the store itself probably has a defective exchange period which will cover you at least for initial early failure] sometimes with a 110/220V switch on the back. There are also sometimes minor differences in how the AM/FM tuner works on receivers but it will still seem quite usable for the majority of US users [less so for people doing the opposite: taking US designed tuners and attempting to use them in Europe]. I'll let people seeking silver designs to pick out those subtle differences on their own, but here's some leads on silver, but remember, I'm not sure if they are "gray market", aka "parallel imports":
Merry Christmas.
Happy Hanukkah.

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post #82 of 149 Old 12-25-2017, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Silver are sometimes sold in the US (if you know where to look) as gray market [which means US warranty coverage by Yamaha is unlikely but keep in mind failure within that time is statistically unlikely and the store itself probably has a defective exchange period which will cover you at least for initial early failure] sometimes with a 110/220V switch on the back. There are also sometimes minor differences in how the AM/FM tuner works on receivers but it will still seem quite usable for the majority of US users [less so for people doing the opposite: taking US designed tuners and attempting to use them in Europe]. I'll let people seeking silver designs to pick out those subtle differences on their own, but here's some leads on silver, but remember, I'm not sure if they are "gray market", aka "parallel imports":
Merry Christmas.
Happy Hanukkah.
The A-S series are available in silver everywhere in the US. The R-N803 is not.

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post #83 of 149 Old 12-25-2017, 11:41 AM
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The A-S series are available in silver everywhere in the US. The R-N803 is not.

They were all available in silver except for the one I wanted .... the cheap one, the AS301.

You do know silver sounds better, right? I hear that the black ones sound a little dark.
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post #84 of 149 Old 12-25-2017, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by raceredmustang View Post
The A-S series are available in silver everywhere in the US. The R-N803 is not.
That makes sense from the tuner perspective but if color was really important one could buy it from another country. I've done that with some goods.
https://www.hifidiprinzio.it/en/Ampl...a-r-n803d.html

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there IS no concept of "accounting for personal taste/preference". As art consumers we don't "pick" the level of bass, nor the tint/brightness of a scene's sky, any more than we pick the ending of a novel or Mona Lisa's type of smile. "High fidelity" means "high truthfulness", faithful to the original artist's intent: an unmodified, neutral, accurate copy of the original master, ideally being exact and with no discernable alterations, aka "transparency".
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post #85 of 149 Old 12-25-2017, 11:48 AM
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You do know silver sounds better, right?
Probably because they are Hi-Re$.
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post #86 of 149 Old 12-25-2017, 12:09 PM
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It seems that anything called 'receiver' is not going to sound as good as something called 'integrated' - and anything called 'preamp/amp' will automatically sound better than receiver & integrated. Been that way for the past 50 years I've been playing in this hobby and it doesn't look like much has changed in that span of time. FWIW one of the better sounding stereo receivers I've owned to date was an Onkyo TX-8050. The Song Towers might have helped.

Last 'receiver' I owned was the Marantz 2270. It was used with JBLs so I have no idea how it sounded, other than loud. I've had my brother's Denon x7200 over here and his older NAD. Neither really sounded any different on the Elacs. As decent as those sound (B6s), they don't resolve very well. The Denon didn't work so well with the ESLs though, but the NAD wasn't bad. NAD is a real decent integrated.

Oops, correction, My younger brother, who happens to be standing here right now, just reminded me that I had a couple Yamaha receivers and whatever that big Sansui was back in the late 70s. I don't remember a thing about it. After I quit working at the store to move to SoCal, my brother took that job (gotta keep the employee accommodation in the family).

And I had Ohm Fs ??? I don't remember a thing about those either. And that's evidently when I bought the SAE IIICM to drive them. I thought I bought that to drive the Dayton Wrights. I do remember the handful of SAEs I had, well actually, because I still have two 2400Ls.

And the store had ESS so of course I had a pair at home. Lil bro remembers more of what I had than I do. He worked at 'high end' dealer in Toledo while he was in law school, although there wasn't much 'high' in 'end'. Then when he was out and back in Columbus I moved shortly after to SoCal so he took my job at this store in C-bus. I'm surprised no one has said .... "was it S******" Yes, it was. Two stores in Columbus and two or three in Cincy with corporate at the store on Red Bank Road. This would be real easy to guess for anyone 60 or over who lived in C-bus or Cincy during those years. Big A$$ record department too. This is where I got hooked on ECM. We had really progressive corporate buyers, although frankly, we choose the lines for the audio department. That's why a whole hoard of us would go to CES. The only line that was really shoved down our throat was Bose. We all but refused to sell them. For a store in a mid size town during those years, we really had interesting stuff.
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post #87 of 149 Old 12-26-2017, 01:31 PM
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Black was completely unheard of in the early years yet is now the defacto standard. For ten points, everyone, explain the specifics of how and why black electronics came to be so popular. It's a very interesting story.

Answer:


Back in the 40s /50s/60s audio components were usually silver and sometimes champagne. Black was unheard of or at least rare.

During this same period professional photographers discovered a new lucrative trade: becoming a paparazzi. Back then the big money was in getting a photograph of a celebrity in a nightclub with their mistresses or in some other compromising position they wouldn't want to be photographed doing. Big cameras with flashes were too conspicuous to work with in the dark clubs so instead they migrated to smaller cameras and fast film, including the new category called SLRs, which could be carried inconspicuously in large coat pockets and removed only when the shot was taken.

They were trying to be as stealthy as possible and holding up a shiny silver box in the dark club was more noticeable than a black box so they applied black tape to the outer surfaces and some even had their camera bodies professionally anodized black. Companies like Nikon noticed this trend and wondered if maybe simply making the cameras in black would appeal to at least this crowd, so indeed some cameras were soon produced in this new all black color scheme and sold for a modest up-charge.

When these hit the store display cases customers would ask, "What's up with those more expensive black cameras?" and they would be told, "Those aren't really meant for you, actually, they are for professionals". BINGO: Customers now associated the color black with "professional" and that means (to them) "better". [Think of how many audio products have the word "Pro" in their very name, after all.]

Nikko and other audio companies then tried out the new "professional" color for their audio components and it went over so well that soon everybody was making black, eventually with it becoming the new defacto standard with "silver" now being the less common option.

A bit of advertising for the new look may have helped the association along: "black = professional = better".
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In A/V reproduction accuracy, there IS no concept of "accounting for personal taste/preference". As art consumers we don't "pick" the level of bass, nor the tint/brightness of a scene's sky, any more than we pick the ending of a novel or Mona Lisa's type of smile. "High fidelity" means "high truthfulness", faithful to the original artist's intent: an unmodified, neutral, accurate copy of the original master, ideally being exact and with no discernable alterations, aka "transparency".

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post #88 of 149 Old 12-26-2017, 02:00 PM
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This is when I noticed the change when early 70s


SAE Mark III





Then 73 or 74. I had a SAE IIICM. (halfway there)







and replaced it with two 2400Ls in 1977


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post #89 of 149 Old 12-28-2017, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Black was completely unheard of in the early years yet is now the defacto standard. For ten points, everyone, explain the specifics of how and why black electronics came to be so popular. It's a very interesting story.
I think it has to do with Home Theater. When watching a movie, you don't want to be distracted, black amps blend into the dark or dimly lite room better, and as such are less noticeable.

However, I personally like Lighter Colored amps better - Silver, Gold, or Champagne (Marantz Gold).

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post #90 of 149 Old 12-28-2017, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by bluewizard View Post
I think it has to do with Home Theater. When watching a movie, you don't want to be distracted, black amps blend into the dark or dimly lite room better, and as such are less noticeable.

However, I personally like Lighter Colored amps better - Silver, Gold, or Champagne (Marantz Gold).

Steve/bluewizard

Conrad Johnson gold
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