N00b Needs Suggestions for "Old" (I mean OLD) School Home "Stereo" System - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 75 Old 06-20-2018, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by froze View Post
Like I said before this is all opinions. Cerwin Vega speakers do not have a good quality sound, yes they are loud and very efficient, and if all you want is a party speaker than that's your speaker, but if you want something with more tonal accuracy that is not your speaker.
Agreed. She wants speakers with huge bass that'll play at "call the cops" levels. Didn't say anything about wanting audiophile-quality sound. She could certainly do a whole lot better in terms of audio quality for the same price, but maybe not in terms of sheer physical impact. I got the feeling that she just wants to crank it up and blissfully rock out, not enjoy the incredible detail and beauty in the music. Personally, I'd never buy the Cerwin-Vegas, either. But I doubt they sound terrible if you don't compare them to anything else.
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I can't comment on the Outlaw since I know nothing about it other than it's made in China but designed in the US, but most modern gear is made in China. While it does have high reviews from audiophile listeners it doesn't have high quality customer service, see: https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/...oduct_support/ Read the entire discussion, I don't know is how wide spread it is but since they represent a very small market share I think what you will be reading is telling of what kind of issues you may occur if there is ever a problem.
That thread is about one person's complaint, is three years old, and had one reply saying they had a great customer service experience with Outlaw. If you read more about them in the forums, I think you'll find people are very pleased with them.

Agreed about getting a decent surge protector, too.


Cheers!


—Chris

Pioneer SX-680 receiver (soon to be replaced by Outlaw Audio RR2160 "retro receiver")
Yamaha NS-A2835 speakers (soon to be replaced by Klipsch RP-600M speakers and dual Rythmik L12 subs)
Vizio E55-C2 HDTV
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post #62 of 75 Old 06-20-2018, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Rblitz74 View Post
.... I would be streaming music from services like Spotify so I assume I'd need Bluetooth. I have that.
Well you have a computer and an Internet connection, and that implies you have a Network Router. If you are going to spend a significant amount of money, then you want Network Streaming, which is not going to be a problem

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What I do NOT need or want is a "home theater" setup....
I, and many others feel the same, Movies on my Stereo system sound fine ... better than fine. My Stereo system has no trouble bring both the Thunder and the Lightning to movie sound tracks.

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I've been looking and I realize I'm a dinosaur
Welcome to the club. Many of use are approaching extinction. ....

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I'd rather buy something NEW and decent, not a cheapo set up but NO, not the top of the line, like each speaker is $2000. Not a used vintage setup. Is there such a place?
I'm confused by this, when you say $2000 is that an example of top of the line, or is that an indication of how much you are willing to spend?

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...Dinosaur from the 70s.
We need some information -

- What are the dimensions of the Room the system will be placed in? If you are trying to put giant PA speakers into a small bedroom, that's not going to work so well. Within limits, we want to match the speakers to the room.

- Give us a Full Working Budget for a full system? This is important, with an implied budget, you are going to get responses all over the place. But give us a Working Budget or Budget Range, and we can focus on product that fit that range.

- Give us a list of the equipment that you want in this system? I'm guessing Network Streaming, DAC, Amp/Receiver, and Speakers. But you have to give us the list.

- Think about the features you might want or need? You imply this will be primarily a Music Streaming and TV/Movies system. To some extent, describe how you will use the system and we can work out most of the necessary features. But again, better for you to say, to the extent that you can, than to leave us to guess.

Next technology and speakers have changed. The Big Box Old-School speakers are still made but they are very rare today. Back in the day when I was young and dinosaurs roamed the earth, a 12" bass driver was pretty much standard, with 10" being on the small side, and 15" being on the large size. Today most Tower or Floorstanding speaker are multiple 6.5" bass driver with a few having 2x8" bass drivers, and the very rare exception being a very few speaker that have 2x10".

And in light of the speaker and driver size, do you want speakers that sound good ... or do you want speakers that simply sound loud?

Today, you can get very nice amps, Amps/Receivers with built in DACs (digital to analog converts) are relatively common and become more common everyday. Network Streaming is also very easy today. There are Amps/Receiver with this feature built in, and adding the feature externally can run as low as $35 or commonly as high as $1500. So, there are options in that area too.

Next, you quoted prices in DOLLARS, but you didn't specify where you are - USA, Australia, Hong Kong, Singapore, other? I think we will assume, for the moment, you are in the USA.

Given what you said, these might be considerations for speakers - using USA links -

Klipsch 2x10" RF-7-III - $1800 each - Black, Cherry, Walnut -

https://www.klipsch.com/products/rf-...anding-speaker

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_714RF7...al-Cherry.html

Also the Klipsch Forte-III ($1800 each, 12" 3-way with 15" passive ), I have a good Video Review on these, and will post a link -



https://www.klipsch.com/forte-iii

JBL just introduced some new Old-School Monkey Coffin speakers, don't expect them to be cheap though -

https://jblsynthesis.com/productlist...dspeakers.html

These are my particular favorites -

JBL 4429, 1x12", Horn Mid/High - US$5,000/pair -


https://jblsynthesis.com/productdetail/id_4429.html

https://www.musicdirect.com/speakers...shelf-Speakers

These probably run a close second -

JBL 4319 Bookshelf Speakers - 1x12", Cone Midrange, Horn Tweeter - US$4,000/pr -


https://jblsynthesis.com/productdetail/id_4319.html

https://www.musicdirect.com/speakers...shelf-Speakers

The Music Direct website seems a bit unresponsive at the moment, but I expect that to be temporary. Also, calling these "bookshelf' speakers is laughable. There isn't a bookshelf made that can hold these speakers. That means you will probably have to have some stands built to support them.

But before we jump into recommendations, we need answers to the questions listed above. Budget? Equipment? Room? Etc...?

And if you have Absolute PILES of Money laying around, then ATC is worth considering, but they are more rare and really do require PILES and PILES of Money.

http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/l...series/scm100/

http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/l...series/scm150/

http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/l...es/scm100aslt/

http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/l...es/scm150aslt/

http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/l...es/scm200aslt/

http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/l...es/scm300aslt/

http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/l...ions/scm100se/

http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/l...ions/scm150se/

http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/l...ditions/el150/

Answer the questions listed, and we will take it from there.

Steve/bluewizard

Last edited by bluewizard; 06-20-2018 at 11:57 AM.
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post #63 of 75 Old 06-20-2018, 12:07 PM
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In addition to everything I said above, here are some possible amps.

Rotel RA-1572 120w/ch, DAC, Networking, Bluetooth - $1700 -

https://www.abt.com/product/114848/R...BK-RA1572.html

https://www.abt.com/product/117304/R...RA1572SIL.html

http://rotel.com/en-gb/product/ra-1572

Rotel RA-1592 Integrated, 200w/ch DAC, Networking, Bluetooth - $2500 -

https://www.abt.com/product/100804/R...r-FR51240.html

http://rotel.com/product/ra-1592

I'm not sure about the Networking in the Rotel amps, it is definitely there, but I'm not sure about the software. Though there are many Third Party sources of Software that can work with this system. I'll leave the software aspect to others.

Also, Parasound Halo Integrated -

Parasound Halo Integrated Amp, 160w/ch, DAC - $2500 -

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PAHAINT

http://parasound.com/hint6.php

If these amps are pushing your budget too high, then this 100w/ch Yamaha has Networking built in -

Yamaha R-N803 Network Receiver, 100w/ch, DAC, Network Streaming, Room EQ, Bass Management, etc... - $750 -

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_022RN8...RN803&skipvs=T

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audi...803/index.html

Of course, many others to consider, but this should give you a cross-section for perspective.

Steve/bluewizard

Last edited by bluewizard; 06-20-2018 at 12:17 PM.
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post #64 of 75 Old 06-20-2018, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewizard View Post
In addition to everything I said above, here are some possible amps.
Great gear, no doubt, but I think it seems like overkill for what she's looking for. In addition to the Outlaw RR2160 and Yamaha R-N803, maybe if she wants to go a bit more old school and get separates, the Emotiva PT-100/A-300 combo could do the trick (with their Bluetooth dongle added on). $700 for a nice 150W/channel setup.

Cheers!

—Chris

Pioneer SX-680 receiver (soon to be replaced by Outlaw Audio RR2160 "retro receiver")
Yamaha NS-A2835 speakers (soon to be replaced by Klipsch RP-600M speakers and dual Rythmik L12 subs)
Vizio E55-C2 HDTV
Sony PlayStation 3
Google Chromecast

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post #65 of 75 Old 06-20-2018, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by cgramer View Post
Great gear, no doubt, but I think it seems like overkill for what she's looking for. ...

Cheers!

—Chris
Which is precisely why I posted a series of questions that need to be answered.

If there is an existing Post (or Posts) where these questions were clearly and unambiguously answered, point me to it.

You can't get what you want until you know what you want, and we can't help you get what you want until WE know what you want ... and how much you are willing to spend to get it.

Better for the Original Poster to tell us, then to leave us to guess.

Also for those interested, here is a side-by-side comparison of the Kilpsch Forte and the Klipsch RF-7, though not the latest RF-7.


Personally, I like the sweeter midrange of the Forte over the V-shaped RF-7.

Steve/bluewizard

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post #66 of 75 Old 06-20-2018, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Rblitz74 View Post
I can definitely go higher on the receiver. It's all the lingo that I don't know that concerns me.

I'm bookmarking links on Amazon that people posted here, trying to figure out which is the best setup for what I want. I don't want to be locked in to one "app" -- like to control the Bluetooth? -- if that makes sense. Confused. I use Spotify but might use something else someday. For now it's Spotify Premium and a LOT of playlists and I need to be able to control the songs easily from across the room (guitar, piano, figuring stuff out, etc.) AND just when I want to change the song while just listening from a chair or whatever, doing nothing.

So I want to get the best speakers I can $5K budget (or thereabouts), I like the Klipsch A LOT but not sure which of those to get (I have lots of wood in the place AND a piano (as in ebony black), and I like big-ass speakers like I remember from my "stereo" in the 70s. Those heavy ole KLH and JBLs. But now I am confused about all the "receiver" vs. amp/pre-amp watts reference ohms dbs lingo. Sigh.

Trying to get a list of the "final choices" together.

2 speakers and a "receiver that will play nicely with Spotify and goes to 11." Call the cops 11.

Thanks again!!!
Don't worry about the electronics. Truth to tell, even though I reccomended amplifier power of more than 100 watts, even 50 watts is very loud with classic Klipsch speakers.

The controlling app runs on your phone, android tablet, or iPad. You have that (Spotify) and the Bluetooth transmitter in your device already. All of the three listed stereo receivers have Bluetooth receivers. You only have to pair your device with the receiver. In my case, my tablet recognized a new Bluetooth device called "HIFI Audio", and I paired the tablet with that, and I was done.

Any of the three Klipsch speaker models in my earlier message will work fine. The more money you spend, the more bass you get, and the more you FEEL as well as HEAR the sound. My own pick would be the Forte III's. I just like the extra efficiency and low distortion of a passive driver, versus the ported or acoustic suspension type enclosures. Passive driver enclosures are harder to design, but then Paul Klipsch really was a genius and he did it correctly. As a retired Electrical Engineer with 37 years in the biz, I can say that with confidence. But then the Forte speakers cannot be back against a wall, they have to have space behind them for the rear drivers.
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post #67 of 75 Old 06-22-2018, 09:54 AM
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This thread has been fascinating even for a veteran like me. I am usually the one in the extended group who advises colleagues like Rblitz 74 (and enjoy doing so). I like the recommendations for the Yamaha N803 with the Emotiva T1 or T2 speakers. However, although she does not have albums or CDs now, in my experience, once people get started, they tend to want their system to do more and more. Hence, since the Yamaha does not have HDMI inputs, I would suggest the Onkyo TX-8270 (or the upscale Integra DTM-7, if you can find it) with their 4 HDMI inputs.

For those who may want to cover even more potential future needs, I would suggest the 5.2 channel Pioneer Elite VSX 45 because it allows you to easily bi-amp front speakers like the Emotivas (or others with dual speaker binding posts) and it can drive 2 powered subs. It has multichannel digital inputs and hence can handle signals from DVD players or Cable boxes etc. The HDMI inputs are addtionally useful if you want to connect say, an OPPO 105 to play SACDs or Blu-Ray audio discs with sparkling resolution. The Pioneer is value priced and sold everywhere, including Amazon, BB, and eBay.

Again, these suggestions should take care of both current and potential future needs.
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post #68 of 75 Old 06-23-2018, 09:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dsmith901 View Post
Here's a thought: how about instead of asking a bunch of strangers in a forum, whose knowledge and expertise you know nothing about, you instead do what most serious audio enthusiasts did to achieve audio satisfaction and that is: educate yourself! Take the time and make the effort to read and understand articles about audio, and yes I mean technical articles, such as what do specs from the manufacturer mean? What is the FTC rule on amplifier ratings (and how has it been used and/or misused in multi-channel audio? What do speaker measurements mean? What is impedance and why is it important? What is the argument between audio "objectivists" and "subjectivists"? And, most important, how do I know what I will like if I don't listen for myself?

Sorry if this comes off as the opinion of a cranky old man, but it just irritates me when people want to have something "good" in audio but they want someone else to tell them what "good" is. So if the OP is really serious about wanting a system that satisfies him, I think he owes it to himself to make the effort to do some homework about the basics of good sound, including acoustics. I did and it took me several years and several thousand dollars of buying and educating myself about what is true and what is false in audio before I finally achieved what I consider a first rate HT system that also has awesome 2 channel was well.

Years ago ecoustics.com was a treasure-trove of great technical articles about audio and also digital cameras written by industry professionals. Alas that site has devolved into mostly just reviews, but there are other sites that offer good technical articles, including audiophilereview.com/, hometheaterview.com, CNET, Crutchfields, and Sweetwater.com. Here is a good place to start: the-home-cinema-guide.com/matching-amps-and-speakers.html

Now, I really do wish you well, and this post is intended to help, not just criticize, and I honestly think you will find a great deal more satisfaction learning and doing yourself instead of just asking advice from others. That said I have no doubt all the replies here are well-intended and represent a genuine desire to help, but from my experience with audio there are no good shortcuts, and the best results for you will be achieved by doing it the hard way, by learning and yes trying different speakers and amps, etc. And please don't overlook the importance of room acoustics, especially in a basement - THAT alone could make or break your plans! Here's a place to start: https://audiophilereview.com/subwoof...cs-part-3.html.

Again, good luck!
I won't post here again.

Because the solution is simple: rather than upset someone, everyone else, who isn't upset, if you would please, just stop posting here about or to me with info/links, and just PM me if you have input. Thanks!

I've gotten so much excellent help here, I really have a great idea of what I need and there is simply no need to do things like use the internet to communicate with knowledgable people (crazy notion, "forums"? ) when I can easily go educate myself by being somewhere else on the internet and not bothering knowledgeable people who use the internet to communicate and opine. I know I get super upset when strangers on the internet ask ME for help in the many areas of expertise I have (Ph.Ds, all those silly things). I would never have thought to use the internet to ask other experts questions about stereo stuff just to save time. I wish I had been more polite, too, and not made my OP so rude and demanding.

Thanks to all who took the time to help "publicly." I REALLY appreciate it more than you can know.

This is my last public post.

The "OP," who said quite a while ago, and a few noticed, that I am female. Not a "he."
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post #69 of 75 Old 06-23-2018, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Rblitz74 View Post
I won't post here again.

...

I've gotten so much excellent help here, I really have a great idea of what I need ...

Thanks to all who took the time to help "publicly." I REALLY appreciate it more than you can know.

This is my last public post.

The "OP," who said quite a while ago, and a few noticed, that I am female. Not a "he."
Please don't take that attitude. Have you ever been on the Internet? (rhetorical) Then you know that there are always going to be ...shall we say... Contrarians... in the comments. That's the Internet, you need to learn to ignore them - take the good ... ignore the bad.

But, at the risk if alienating you even more, we can only be as responsive as you are. I asked a series of questions that would have help us zero in on your specific needs ... you never answered the questions. I assure you those are the standard questions that need to be answered in every discussion about equipment purchases. I'm still not even really sure what your budget is or of the equipment you specially need.

Specific information from you gets specific responses, generalized information for you can never bring more than generalized responses.

We need some information -

- What are the dimensions of the Room the system will be placed in? If you are trying to put giant PA speakers into a small bedroom, that's not going to work so well. Within limits, we want to match the speakers to the room.

- Give us a Full Working Budget for a full system? This is important, with an implied budget, you are going to get responses all over the place. But give us a Working Budget or Budget Range, and we can focus on product that fit that range.

- Give us a list of the equipment that you want in this system? I'm guessing Network Streaming, DAC, Amp/Receiver, and Speakers. But you have to give us the list.

- Think about the features you might want or need? You imply this will be primarily a Music Streaming and TV/Movies system. To some extent, describe how you will use the system and we can work out most of the necessary features. But again, better for you to say, to the extent that you can, than to leave us to guess.

The more we know, the better we can help ... minus the input from the inevitable grumpy old men.

As I said, I'm still not sure what your budget is. $2000 was mentioned but is that for a Pair of Speakers, Per Speaker, for the Whole System? I don't know. Then your features and needs plus budget will help us narrow down the possible range of equipment.

That said, we can tell you what CAN be done, but I don't think anyone here will tell you what to do. That's your decision to make. We can only point out the possibilities which will be focused by the information you provide to us.

We do want to help, but we are limited by the information that you provide to us.

Steve/bluewizard

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post #70 of 75 Old 07-21-2018, 11:35 AM - Thread Starter
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I return one more time to thank all for their input and help, and especially Chris, who seemed to be tuned in (ha get it?) to exactly what I wanted. I got it and I love it.

BOUGHT:

1. Klipsch RP-280F Reference Premiere Floorstanding Speaker with Dual 8 inch Cerametallic Cone Woofers (Ebony Pair) and

2. The Yamaha Hi-Fi Audio Component Receiver Black (R-N803BL).

Verdict, Personal (YMMV): TOTALLY kicks!

Running Spotify (so ridiculously easy to "set up") and I could not be happier.

I did have a defective speaker (I suspected as much when I saw the one speaker's FedEx box looking like it had done battle with a guy in a hockey mask and ... lost, i.e., multiple stab wounds and a "view" well into the box that I knew wasn't supposed to be there -- "Look!" I said to the FedEx girl, "A viewing portal for the excited customer!" "I see styrofoam! This is genius!" she shrieked. We bonded.)

Still, I signed for it and messed with the connections and the tweeter was DEAD DEAD DEAD. I think next time a Klipsch speaker goes wandering alone to the cabin at Lake Crystal it should think twice, don't you?

Oh. The speaker also had some "dings" on the top front edge that were not, uh, artisanal or "Limited Edition" design elements. These were not-supposed-to-be-there damage-y scratches and small chunked out areas. The poor speaker barely made it at all and FedEx girl took a knife and we peered into another gap in the packing and saw more apparently undamaged styrofoam and looked at each other.

Me: Should I just sign?
FedEx Girl: I dunno.
Me: Yeah I'm takin' it. It's just the right side of the ship that hit the iceberg, not the whole thing.
FedEx Girl: Yeah, unsinkable.

I signed and took the speakers in and after messing with banana plugs, I figured out it wasn't the plugs, I realized the collision with the iceberg had done some serious damage to the Lido Deck.

I explained in a nice note to Klipsch (via Amazon) about the iceberg and and wow, Klipsch was right on it, replaced the speaker, bam, no problem. I didn't have to prove there was an iceberg or anything. I just said something techy like "Uhh, this speaker box has portholes in it and dings on the speaker top itself." Klipsch rep said no prob, icebergs are the leading caused of unplanned portals in speaker boxes. They sent the replacement FAST. I could tell as soon as I saw the replacement box this new speaker would be fine because there were no portholes in the Klipsch box and no barnacles on the underside. Nothing.

So yay for that excellent service.

Some of the people who think or thought perhaps that because I titled the "what I thought was very polite" thread calling myself a "n00b" may have misunderstood (?) that I only meant WRT audio.

Me? New to the internet? That did make me smile; I do web development. Just not a forum person, no time. Old fart who wanted the type of setup I had back in the day, i.e., from "My Old School." (Steely Dan reference, ahem.)

THANK YOU ALL -- I MEAN ALL OF YOU -- for your every typed-in word and thought and more importantly, your kindness and courtesy and valuable time. I sincerely appreciate it and you solved my puzzle and I didn't have to buy a vowel. Gracious and helpful, all. Great suggestions based on what I told you. Cannot thank you ALL enough. Ever.

Best!
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post #71 of 75 Old 07-25-2018, 06:42 AM
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Klipsch Subwoofer if you need more shakin

https://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-Refer...psch+subwoofer
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post #72 of 75 Old 07-25-2018, 08:54 AM
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Amusing story and always glad to see an op check back in after having made a decision. Enjoy your new gear.

¿lɐɯɹou ǝq ʎɥʍ

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post #73 of 75 Old 07-25-2018, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rblitz74 View Post
I return one more time to thank all for their input and help, and especially Chris, who seemed to be tuned in (ha get it?) to exactly what I wanted. I got it and I love it.

BOUGHT:

1. Klipsch RP-280F Reference Premiere Floorstanding Speaker with Dual 8 inch Cerametallic Cone Woofers (Ebony Pair) and

2. The Yamaha Hi-Fi Audio Component Receiver Black (R-N803BL).

Verdict, Personal (YMMV): TOTALLY kicks!

Running Spotify (so ridiculously easy to "set up") and I could not be happier.

...

Best!
I would expect that to be a pretty nice system. Best guess on the price, about $1600/set. The Klipsch RP-Series are suppose to be pretty impressive, well above the previous R's.

The Yamaha RN803 also has Room EQ and Bass Management should the need arise. But in a relatively normal sized room the Klipsch RP-280 should have pretty good bass.

That's a quality full feature system for a very reasonable amount of money. I'm sure you will be very happy with it.

Steve/bluewizard

Last edited by bluewizard; 11-10-2018 at 12:42 PM.
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post #74 of 75 Old 08-07-2018, 09:16 PM
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(where it is usually confined to a dominant second order distortion product which is often deemed more benign audibly).: happy you got a system you like within your budget.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post
I just like the extra efficiency and low distortion of a passive driver, versus the ported
Pity you don't actually get either with a PR. Same efficiency and THD as a well implemented port.

“You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.” Chuck Palahniuk

Last edited by A9X-308; 08-07-2018 at 09:19 PM.
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post #75 of 75 Old 11-08-2018, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by vzphoneman View Post
Heresy's ... Chorus's ... Forte's !
Corner Horns or go home!

Better yet, find a pair of Bose 901s and you will be the talk of the town at your 30 year high school reunion.

David.. "It must be weird to be normal"
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