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post #1 of 92 Old 09-03-2018, 07:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Potential Purchase; 2 channel amp

Already have a Parasound A21 amp in one set-up with P5 preamp.

May want to add another 2.1 channel in another set-up. What amps in the $1-1.5k range would you guys recommend.

Like at least 200 watts per channel.. Be driving either Polk LsiM 703s or Revel M16 speakers

Thanks....

Primary set-up 5.1.4; Yamaha A2050, Paired w/Parasound P5 & ATI 522NC 2 channel amp
Revel F206 fronts & Revel M16 rears; Outlaw X12 Sub & 4 RSL C34e in-ceilings

Secondary 5.1: Denon S900W, Polk LSiM703/704C, Polk RC80i in-ceiling rears, RSL Speedwoofer 10s
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post #2 of 92 Old 09-03-2018, 07:50 AM
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Just a bit above your price range, but I'm a big fan:


https://www.d-sonic.com/products/m3a...amplifier.html


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post #3 of 92 Old 09-03-2018, 01:41 PM
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I’d suggest taking a look on the used market, despite your desire for 200 watts, I’d highly recommend this unit and I can attest to its power and control over demanding speakers, and the unit will play louder then you’ll be comfortable with. It has a sub out connection, ht bypass option and its incredibly musical.

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/...ted-amplifier/

No affiliation with seller

Willing to spend a little more..... it’ll power anything you throw at it.

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/...aim-supernait/
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post #4 of 92 Old 09-03-2018, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Thx guys; I’d rather buy new Amp with good warranty. Plan is for this to be LT purchase. My Parasound A21 amp already been repaired under warranty

Primary set-up 5.1.4; Yamaha A2050, Paired w/Parasound P5 & ATI 522NC 2 channel amp
Revel F206 fronts & Revel M16 rears; Outlaw X12 Sub & 4 RSL C34e in-ceilings

Secondary 5.1: Denon S900W, Polk LSiM703/704C, Polk RC80i in-ceiling rears, RSL Speedwoofer 10s
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post #5 of 92 Old 09-03-2018, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yanks1 View Post
Thx guys; I’d rather buy new Amp with good warranty. Plan is for this to be LT purchase. My Parasound A21 amp already been repaired under warranty
Try these out then.

https://nadelectronics.com/product/c...dac-amplifier/

https://www.musicdirect.com/integrat...iABEgI_tvD_BwE

https://www.dedicatedaudio.com/colle...work-streaming

https://www.dedicatedaudio.com/colle...ated-amplifier

http://audiovisionsf.com/?page=detail&product_id=2288

http://audiovisionsf.com/?page=detail&product_id=2736

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post #6 of 92 Old 09-03-2018, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Thx callas01;

But already have preamp, so don’t need integrated amp. Just a kick-butt 2 channel amplifier. Thanks again

Primary set-up 5.1.4; Yamaha A2050, Paired w/Parasound P5 & ATI 522NC 2 channel amp
Revel F206 fronts & Revel M16 rears; Outlaw X12 Sub & 4 RSL C34e in-ceilings

Secondary 5.1: Denon S900W, Polk LSiM703/704C, Polk RC80i in-ceiling rears, RSL Speedwoofer 10s
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post #7 of 92 Old 09-03-2018, 06:07 PM
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I might try peachtree audio if had easy return policy.
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post #8 of 92 Old 09-03-2018, 06:09 PM
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If that’s the case then got for Schitt Vidar Amps.
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post #9 of 92 Old 09-03-2018, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yanks1 View Post
Thx guys; I’d rather buy new Amp with good warranty. Plan is for this to be LT purchase. My Parasound A21 amp already been repaired under warranty

So far so good on the D-Sonic. I auditioned my speakers on Parasound gear, and while I thought it was great, the D-Sonic is every bit as good, though impossible to do actual A/B testing. Love the fact that when you or call or email the company you end up speaking with the man that designs and builds them.
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7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
Mains:
Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
ATMOS:
Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
Subwoofers:
2 x SVS-SB13Ultras; Media: Oppo UDP-203, Pioneer CLD-59
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post #10 of 92 Old 09-03-2018, 07:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Is D-Sonic a legit top quality amp?! I’ll be honest, I never heard of them

Primary set-up 5.1.4; Yamaha A2050, Paired w/Parasound P5 & ATI 522NC 2 channel amp
Revel F206 fronts & Revel M16 rears; Outlaw X12 Sub & 4 RSL C34e in-ceilings

Secondary 5.1: Denon S900W, Polk LSiM703/704C, Polk RC80i in-ceiling rears, RSL Speedwoofer 10s
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post #11 of 92 Old 09-03-2018, 07:18 PM
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benchmark amps get lots of magazine love
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post #12 of 92 Old 09-03-2018, 09:23 PM
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Can we assume you need features similar to the Parasound P5 Pre-Amp?

Would you rather cut back on the Pre-Amp or on the Power-Amp, because for $1,500 you are going to have to make some sacrifices somewhere.

And is that $1,500 for a Power-Amp, or an Integrated Amp? Are Class-D possible or does it have to be Class-A/B?

And ...200w/ch... you are cutting yourself very lean on that.

Rotel RA-1572 Integrated Amp with DAC, 120w/ch - $1699 -


https://www.abt.com/product/114848/R...BK-RA1572.html

Rotel RA-1592 Integrated Amp with DAC, 200w/ch - $2499 -


https://www.abt.com/product/108678/R...r-FR51740.html

https://www.abt.com/product/100804/R...r-FR51240.html

Rotel RC-1570 Pre-Amp with DAC - $999 -


https://www.abt.com/product/108688/R...RC1570SIL.html

There is a NEW RA-1572 Pre-Amp, but this site didn't have it listed.

http://rotel.com/product/rc-1572

Rotel RB-1582 MkII 200w/ch Power Amp - Class A/B - $1599 -

https://www.abt.com/product/72857/Ro...1582MK2BK.html

http://rotel.com/product/rb-1582-mkii

Emotiva -


This is about the only hope you have as I understand it -

Emotiva PT-100 Pre-Amp - $299 -


https://emotiva.com/collections/pre-...roducts/pt-100

Emotiva XSP1 Pre-Amp - $1199 -

https://emotiva.com/collections/pre-amps/products/xsp-1

Emotiva XPA-2 - 2-Channel Power Amp - Class-A/B - 300w/ch - $999 -


https://emotiva.com/collections/amps...cts/xpa-2-gen3

I'm still not clear on exactly what you are looking for - Integrated? Pre/Power? Just Power?

Either raise your budget or lower your standards, though the Emotiva are considered very good amps, so you aren't really lowing them that much.


For Reference, the Parasound A21 - 250w/ch - Class-A/B - Power Amps is $2495 -

https://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PAHA21


Steve/bluewizard

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post #13 of 92 Old 09-03-2018, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yanks1 View Post
Already have a Parasound A21 amp in one set-up with P5 preamp.

May want to add another 2.1 channel in another set-up. What amps in the $1-1.5k range would you guys recommend.

Like at least 200 watts per channel.. Be driving either Polk LsiM 703s or Revel M16 speakers

Thanks....
Red Dragon Audio S500 MKII

If you were in Texas you could give mine a spin.
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post #14 of 92 Old 09-03-2018, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by laserjock II View Post
Red Dragon Audio S500 MKII
....
https://www.reddragonaudio.com/products/s500

You are welcome.

Steve/bluewizard
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post #15 of 92 Old 09-04-2018, 01:45 AM
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I was going to recommend Emotiva as well; Bluewizard beat me to it.

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post #16 of 92 Old 09-04-2018, 04:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks bluewizard; $1-1.5k is an Amp budget. Red Dragon looks interesting in a small box. I’m wondering why do most traditional amps weigh 40-50lbs and this little mite is < 15 lbs.??

I’m very familiar with Emotiva, my A21 replaced a 3rd Gen XPA-2. And FYI... I’m not sure the A21 was a significant upgrade vs the 2.5x cost more. And what I don’t like about Parasound the warranty is not transferable, the Emotiva is

Primary set-up 5.1.4; Yamaha A2050, Paired w/Parasound P5 & ATI 522NC 2 channel amp
Revel F206 fronts & Revel M16 rears; Outlaw X12 Sub & 4 RSL C34e in-ceilings

Secondary 5.1: Denon S900W, Polk LSiM703/704C, Polk RC80i in-ceiling rears, RSL Speedwoofer 10s
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post #17 of 92 Old 09-04-2018, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yanks1 View Post
Is D-Sonic a legit top quality amp?! I’ll be honest, I never heard of them

Oh yes. I discovered D-Sonic through this forum, and decided to give the brand a try. No regrets. Built like tanks. Might not make a visual statement, but they do look good in their own simple way. This amp was an outstanding match for my system.
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Mains:
Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
ATMOS:
Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
Subwoofers:
2 x SVS-SB13Ultras; Media: Oppo UDP-203, Pioneer CLD-59
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post #18 of 92 Old 09-04-2018, 11:36 AM
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I have not heard them, but stereo power amps that come to mind (though not all are rated at your minimum 200-watts/channel) are the NAD C 275BEE, the Odyssey Stratos, Outlaw 2200 monoblocks, and the Cambridge 851W. The Cambridge is a bit above your price range at $1700, but it is now available at a reduced price (possibly it's being replaced by an upcoming model). Here are a few links:

https://www.musicdirect.com/power-am...ereo-power-amp

http://www.odysseyaudio.com/products...os-stereo.html

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/2200.html

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_779851....html?tp=48757

http://i.nextmedia.com.au/Assets/cam...test_lores.pdf


(Edit: Typo fix)

Music room: Cary SLI-80 tube integrated amplifier, McIntosh MA6500 integrated amplifier, Quad 99 preamp, Quad 909 power amp, Acoustic Research AR9 loudspeakers, Yamaha CD-N500 CD player, Teac UD-503 DSD DAC, Phase Linear 8000II linear-tracking turntable.
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post #19 of 92 Old 09-05-2018, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yanks1 View Post
Already have a Parasound A21 amp in one set-up with P5 preamp.

May want to add another 2.1 channel in another set-up. What amps in the $1-1.5k range would you guys recommend.

Like at least 200 watts per channel.. Be driving either Polk LsiM 703s or Revel M16 speakers

Thanks....
Crown XLS DriveCore 2 Series

https://www.crownaudio.com/en/products/xls-2502

Eco friendly, stays cool, tons of power, economically priced.
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post #20 of 92 Old 09-05-2018, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Out-Of-Phase View Post
Crown XLS DriveCore 2 Series

https://www.crownaudio.com/en/products/xls-2502

Eco friendly, stays cool, tons of power, economically priced.
Crown XLR DriveCore 2-Series -

https://www.crownaudio.com/en/produc...ecore-2-series

Even the CROWN XLR DriverCore 1502 is a solid 300w/ch to 8 ohms.

Crown XLS 1502, 300w/ch @ 8 ohms - $399 -


https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...ower-amplifier

Crown XLS 2002, 375w/ch @ 8 ohms - $499 -

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...ower-amplifier

Crown XLS 2505, 440w/ch @ 8 ohms - $599 -

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...ower-amplifier




Stays cool, stays quiet, sounds good ...but... Class-D ...if that matters to you.

Steve/bluewizard

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post #21 of 92 Old 09-05-2018, 03:41 PM
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https://www.crutchfield.com/p_779851....html?tp=48757 I have this amp and love it. Was saving my money for a McIntosh and got impatient and bought this. Not looking back now. Maybe a Mac in the future but this is doing the job for now.

Basement system: Yamaha 2060, Cambridge Azur 851W, Sony HAP-A1ES, Rega RP-1, B&W CM10S2, B&W CM Centre S2, Cambridge Minx XL,2 JL Audio e112
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post #22 of 92 Old 09-05-2018, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yanks1 View Post
Already have a Parasound A21 amp in one set-up with P5 preamp.

May want to add another 2.1 channel in another set-up. What amps in the $1-1.5k range would you guys recommend.

Like at least 200 watts per channel.. Be driving either Polk LsiM 703s or Revel M16 speakers

Thanks....
Do what I did and get two used niles si 2125 amps and bridge them per speaker for 300 rms each.

They go about 200 plus each on ebay
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post #23 of 92 Old 09-05-2018, 04:32 PM
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It has been mentioned a couple of times, but well worth expanding on -

Cambridge Audio 851W 200w/ch Power Amp - $1,699 -

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_779851....html?tp=48757

https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/usa/en/products/851/851w

Power output – stereo/mono -

* 200W per channel into 8 Ohms
* 350W per channel into 4 Ohms

Power output – bridged mono -

* 500W 8 Ohms 800W 4 Ohms

THD (unweighted): < 0.001% 1 kHz < 0.005% 20 Hz - 20 kHz


Max. power consumption: 2400W

Weight: 19.1kg (42.2lbs)


This is the Cambridge Flagship line. Certainly a Amp well worth checking out.

"Rather than use a Class A design, which is sonically brilliant but generates vast amounts of heat, or a Class AB design, which is efficient but sonically limited, we developed our own Class XD amplifier design which the 851W takes advantage of. This has the sonic purity of Class A and the efficiency of Class AB for the best of both worlds. For more information on our unique patented Class XD technology watch the video at the bottom of the page or click here for a full description."

Class-XD Amps explained -

https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/usa/e...ology/class-xd

Well, there is a Flagship of the Flagship line, but it is expensive and not fully released just yet -

https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/usa/en/products/edge


Steve/bluewizard
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post #24 of 92 Old 09-05-2018, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Thx so much guys!! My head is spinning with so many choices...

Wondering now why my A21 amp cost $2,500 and is rarely, if ever discounted.

Why are these power amps $1-1.5k less?? Hopefully similar quality

Thanks...

Primary set-up 5.1.4; Yamaha A2050, Paired w/Parasound P5 & ATI 522NC 2 channel amp
Revel F206 fronts & Revel M16 rears; Outlaw X12 Sub & 4 RSL C34e in-ceilings

Secondary 5.1: Denon S900W, Polk LSiM703/704C, Polk RC80i in-ceiling rears, RSL Speedwoofer 10s
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post #25 of 92 Old 09-05-2018, 06:41 PM
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If we assume it is a Power Amp that you are looking for, then let's review the amps that have been presented -


Rotel RB-1582 MkII - 200w/ch Power Amp - Class A/B - $1599 -

Emotiva XPA-2 - 2-Channel Power Amp - 300w/ch - Class-A/B - $999 -

Cambridge Audio 851W - 200w/ch Power Amp - Class-XD - $1,699 -
-
Red Dragon Audio S500 MKII - 250w/ch - Class-?? - $1000 -


And we have the outliers - (All Class-D) -

Crown XLS 1502, 300w/ch @ 8 ohms - $399 -

Crown XLS 2002, 375w/ch @ 8 ohms - $499 -

Crown XLS 2505, 440w/ch @ 8 ohms - $599 -

You have to decide what best serves you, your circumstances, and your Wallet. None of these are bad amps; they are all good amps, but what specifically servers your needs?

The Cambridge and Rotel are internationally known and respected brands. For the record, I have a Rotel RA-1570 Integrated Amp. Rotel are perhaps not in the class of Parasound, but then neither is your budget in the class of Parasound.

Emotiva,
does have international distribution, and they have a pretty solid reputation of delivering high quality products at a pretty reasonable price. From what I understand you have some experience with Emotiva, so you should be able to make a judgement as to whether it serves your need.

Which leaves Red Dragon Audio, which I have no knowledge of, but my knowledge is unrelated to whether they are good or bad. Others seem to indicate they hit a pretty high standard.

That leaves CROWN XLS, these are high value in the extreme. If you watched the second video I posted, Z-Reviews searched far and wide for Amps to meet his needs, and in then end, CROWN did everything he needed and gave him massively Power (1550w/each to 8 ohms in Bridge Mode), and at the best price possible ($1200/pair). So, if you want maximum value, then these are worth investigating. Even the more modest Crown XLS 1502 is a solid 300w/ch to 8 ohms for $399. And these amps will handle extreme impedance loads.

The top FOUR amps listed in this post all fall within or near your suggested budget. You can not consider all amps made, only amps you can afford. These are all affordable, and if you want to take a chance, the Crown offer maximum amps for minimum money from a company that has been in business since 1947.

Steve/bluewizard
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Last edited by bluewizard; 09-11-2018 at 10:36 AM.
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post #26 of 92 Old 09-07-2018, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by yanks1 View Post
Thx guys; I’d rather buy new Amp with good warranty. Plan is for this to be LT purchase. My Parasound A21 amp already been repaired under warranty

Not to thread jack, but can I ask what happened with the A21? I'm looking into an A23 and would rather not deal with reliability issues, although I haven't heard of major problems.

SOTA Nova (III)/Jelco TS-550S/Grado Sonata V2/Parasound JC 3 Jr and Zpre3/Parasound A23+/TEAC A-2520/Philharmonic BMR
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post #27 of 92 Old 09-07-2018, 12:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Right channel started crackling; been to authorized repair center but needs to go back again. They think it’s minor issue but tough to duplicate since not constant. Being dropped off again next weekend. I love the product though, usually rock-solid I had older 1991 Parasound amp for 25 years before retiring it

Primary set-up 5.1.4; Yamaha A2050, Paired w/Parasound P5 & ATI 522NC 2 channel amp
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Secondary 5.1: Denon S900W, Polk LSiM703/704C, Polk RC80i in-ceiling rears, RSL Speedwoofer 10s
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post #28 of 92 Old 09-07-2018, 09:29 PM
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I would seriously consider used one. Even the older ones. $1500 for a new amp won't get you far at all. For $1500, you can get really good used ones. If you are lucky to find one, you can get into Krell, Mark Levinson type. I don't think High end amp has evolve much since the 80s after the new and faster transistors became available.


I studied a lot of circuits of different amps, New is not necessary better. Design has not evolve, transistors have not gotten better since the 80s. there is no reason the new ones are better. $1500 will get you a used amp that are into $4000 or higher range.



I see suggestions of class D, ( because of the price range) I don't think it's in the same league as true high bias Class AB or class A traditional amps.

Go on Craig's list, go listen to it. Bargain. Don't listen to people telling you that you need to recap the amp, listen to it, if it sounds good, buy it, use until it breaks. I design and build amps, too many hypes going on.






OK, the following is my pet pee:


I try to express this without getting into technical details. I will never buy an amp that doesn't have external big heatsink. As a designer, I yet to know of a high quality amp that doesn't dissipate a lot of power. Amps has to have a lot of output transistors, at least 6 pairs of big output transistors per channel. The amp has to be heavy and if you can get an internal picture, it has to be full. I seriously doubt there is a new amp that meet this for $1500, I don't know you can touch this for $2000.
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post #29 of 92 Old 09-08-2018, 07:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Thx Alan & I hear you. But want an amp that is under warranty & most of them are not transferable including Parasound. I am too old now to worry about recapping or refreshing an older amp. I prefer new

Primary set-up 5.1.4; Yamaha A2050, Paired w/Parasound P5 & ATI 522NC 2 channel amp
Revel F206 fronts & Revel M16 rears; Outlaw X12 Sub & 4 RSL C34e in-ceilings

Secondary 5.1: Denon S900W, Polk LSiM703/704C, Polk RC80i in-ceiling rears, RSL Speedwoofer 10s
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post #30 of 92 Old 09-08-2018, 02:03 PM
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This Amp has already been mentioned but it bears repeating as it is something of a bargain -

OutLaw Audio 2200, 200w Mono-Block - $380 each -

http://outlawaudio.com/products/2200.html

For $560/pair, you get a lot of amp at a bargain price.

Certainly worth checking into.

You have a pretty fair list of amps now -

Rotel, Cambridge, Emotiva, Red Dragon, and now Outlaw (and some others).

I would expect any of them to do a good job for you.


You could potentially consider Parasound Classic as opposed to the more expensive Parasound HALO -

Parasound Classic 2250-V2, 275w/ch to 8 ohms - $999 -


https://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinf...mber=PAC2250V2

http://parasound.com/2250-v2.php

Continuous RMS Power Output (20 Hz - 20 kHz, Both Channels Driven): 275 watts x 2 @ 8 ohms; 400 watts x 2 @ 4 ohms; 400watts x 2 @ 2 ohms (2 Ohm stable operation with load selector switch )

Current Capacity: 45 amps peak per channel

S/N Ratio: 114 dB at rated output

You have to weigh the extent to which you like Parasound Amps, but this one seems to be hitting on all cylinders relative to specs and price.

So, that is a pretty good cross-section.

What are you feelings on the Amps suggested so far? Is there any particular direction you are leaning? Any thoughts on what you might do? Any particular characteristic you might be looking for that we haven't addressed?

Emotiva
is kind of a no-brainer, since you already have experience with Emotiva.

Parasound NewClassic seem like a no-brainer, since you already have experience with Parasound.

Rotel
in general is a highly regarded amp in the UK/EU. Just a trace above budget if you want Class-AB. But if you would consider Class-D, then the Rotel RB-1572 -

Rotel RB-1572, 250w/ch, Class-D - $1299 -

http://rotel.com/sites/default/files..._InfoSheet.pdf

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/rotel-1...?skuId=5708744

Just because I'm old and set in my ways, I would be more inclined to go -

Rotel RB-1582 MkII 200w/ch Power Amp - Class A/B - $1599 -

A bit over budget, but you really can't go wrong with the Cambridge 851W -

Cambridge Audio 851W 200w/ch Power Amp - $1,699 -

Staying within the stated budget range, and offering maximum value, I'm not sure I see anything better than the Emotiva and Parasound NewClassic.

If you want go for bargains -

- Outlaw Audio 2200
- Rotel RB-1572 (though only slightly a bargain)
- Crown XLS


But again, though I'm not the buyer, Emotiva and Parasound NewClassic seem to tick all the boxes.


Steve/bluewizard

Last edited by bluewizard; 09-08-2018 at 02:57 PM.
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