Best/Easiest way to digitize LPs - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 106 Old 11-10-2018, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Best/Easiest way to digitize LPs

I'm trying to restart my LP digitization project. Years ago my two turntables failed and I've decided to start again. First I started looking at USB TTs, but comments here made me think again. As I understand it, you start with a TT and cartridge. You then need a preamp, and amp (maybe), and a ADC. The USB TTs have the preamp and ADC built in, but how good are they? You can also use the ADC built into your computer's sound card. Or you could go to a high-quality stand-alone ADC. If I'm just trying to create some digital copies to play in my car, my standards aren't extreme. But I also want to archive the LPs, so I might want better quality. What's the "sweat spot" in this string of equipment?
PS One of my failed TTs is a Technics SL-BD20D. The failure is that the tone arm lifting mechanism won't retract so the needle doesn't rest on the record. I could probably take it apart and remove that mechanism, but is this TT worth the effort?
Thanks for your input.
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post #2 of 106 Old 11-10-2018, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTVhike View Post
I'm trying to restart my LP digitization project. Years ago my two turntables failed and I've decided to start again. First I started looking at USB TTs, but comments here made me think again. As I understand it, you start with a TT and cartridge. You then need a preamp, and amp (maybe), and a ADC. The USB TTs have the preamp and ADC built in, but how good are they? You can also use the ADC built into your computer's sound card. Or you could go to a high-quality stand-alone ADC. If I'm just trying to create some digital copies to play in my car, my standards aren't extreme. But I also want to archive the LPs, so I might want better quality. What's the "sweat spot" in this string of equipment?
PS One of my failed TTs is a Technics SL-BD20D. The failure is that the tone arm lifting mechanism won't retract so the needle doesn't rest on the record. I could probably take it apart and remove that mechanism, but is this TT worth the effort?
Thanks for your input.

Maybe I don't understand what the purpose is, but if you want copies to play in your car, wouldn't the easiest method be to purchase some copies of the music you already have in the digital format of your choice?


Rubbing a weighted diamond in a groove filled with dust and scratches doesn't scream fidelity to me. Other maladities to deal with are center holes that are not punched correctly, causing the record to rotate eccentrically on the spindle.



With compact discs at an all time low, 25 cents or so each at a pawn shop, you can purchase a lot of music that has not degraded from playback. Installing each disc into a computer with a disc drive, and creating your own digital copy can take a few moments each, when you are done with the discs, you can sell them back to the pawn shop if you desired for a few cents each. Once you have ripped them, cover art and track information will automagically appear. ( at least in any of the programs I have used in the past decade )
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post #3 of 106 Old 11-10-2018, 12:23 PM
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You don't necessarily need a ADC (analog to digital converter). Most computers have Line In on them, and they have a ADC on the sound card. So, you simply need to find a Line Level output from your turntable. You could directly plug the output of the Phono Equalization Pre-Amp in to the Line In on the computer, and that would be enough. Alternately, if you have an Amp, that amp likely has Tape Out or Rec Out, which are Line Level Outputs, and connect those to the Line In on the computer.

On the dirt cheap end, here is a Behringer product that is both a DAC, ADC, a Phono Pre-Amp, and a USB interface though limited to CD Quality.

Behringer UFO-202 USB DAC/ADC - ~£20 -


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-U...dp/B002GHBYZ0/

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-U...dp/B007M98BKI/

The input on the UFO202 can be switched between Phono and Line.

I believe Audacity (free audio recording software) can implement Phono Equalization in software, so you could come directly out of the turntable, though the signal level is VERY low, and Audacity would apply the equalization.

How far do you want to take it and how much money do you want to spend?

The simplest is to get the Turntable signal up to a Standard Line Level, then go direction into the Line In on the computer.

For recording Software, if you don't already have it, Free AUDACITY is very commonly used.

https://www.audacityteam.org/

https://www.audacityteam.org/about/features/

Note there is something of a time investment in this. You will have to play the Albums in Real Time, and pause at the end of each song, if you want to save them as individual tracks. That can take a bit of time. Likely each album will have to be save in it's own directory/folder as a sub-folder in the location where all your music is saved - C:\Music\Jimi_Hendrix, C:\Music\Miles_Davis, C:\Music\Justin_Beiber, and so on....

Just some thoughts.

Steve/bluewizard
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post #4 of 106 Old 11-10-2018, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michael hurd View Post
Maybe I don't understand what the purpose is, but if you want copies to play in your car, wouldn't the easiest method be to purchase some copies of the music you already have in the digital format of your choice?


Rubbing a weighted diamond in a groove filled with dust and scratches doesn't scream fidelity to me. Other maladities to deal with are center holes that are not punched correctly, causing the record to rotate eccentrically on the spindle.



With compact discs at an all time low, 25 cents or so each at a pawn shop, you can purchase a lot of music that has not degraded from playback. Installing each disc into a computer with a disc drive, and creating your own digital copy can take a few moments each, when you are done with the discs, you can sell them back to the pawn shop if you desired for a few cents each. Once you have ripped them, cover art and track information will automagically appear. ( at least in any of the programs I have used in the past decade )
I do purchase CDs or digital downloads for music which is available but most of my library hasn't been released digitally.
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post #5 of 106 Old 11-10-2018, 02:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewizard View Post
You don't necessarily need a ADC (analog to digital converter). Most computers have Line In on them, and they have a ADC on the sound card. So, you simply need to find a Line Level output from your turntable. You could directly plug the output of the Phono Equalization Pre-Amp in to the Line In on the computer, and that would be enough. Alternately, if you have an Amp, that amp likely has Tape Out or Rec Out, which are Line Level Outputs, and connect those to the Line In on the computer.

On the dirt cheap end, here is a Behringer product that is both a DAC, ADC, a Phono Pre-Amp, and a USB interface though limited to CD Quality.

Behringer USO202 USB DAC/ADC - ~£20 -


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-U...dp/B002GHBYZ0/

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-U...dp/B007M98BKI/

The input on the UFO202 can be switched between Phono and Line.

I believe Audacity (free audio recording software) can implement Phono Equalization in software, so you could come directly out of the turntable, though the signal level is VERY low, and Audacity would apply the equalization.

How far do you want to take it and how much money do you want to spend?

The simplest is to get the Turntable signal up to a Standard Line Level, then go direction into the Line In on the computer.

For recording Software, if you don't already have it, Free AUDACITY is very commonly used.

https://www.audacityteam.org/

https://www.audacityteam.org/about/features/

Note there is something of a time investment in this. You will have to play the Albums in Real Time, and pause at the end of each song, if you want to save them as individual tracks. That can take a bit of time. Likely each album will have to be save in it's own directory/folder as a sub-folder in the location where all your music is saved - C:\Music\Jimi_Hendrix, C:\Music\Miles_Davis, C:\Music\Justin_Beiber, and so on....

Just some thoughts.

Steve/bluewizard
I have the Audacity software, and I know that I can use the line input of my computer's sound card, but I was just wondering about the quality. As you say, there is a lot of time invested in this project and I want to start with the best equipment I can afford, but don't want to waste money. I've already concluded that the ADCs in the inexpensive USB turntables aren't very good; neither are the turntables themselves. My receiver has a phono input.
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post #6 of 106 Old 11-10-2018, 03:42 PM
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Biggest difference I have found is that noise levels of the audio cards and motherboards differ as some being way more noisy then others. Ymmv tho. Best cards I have used have been soundblaster cards and use cdex to digitize to wav files. Just do not clip the inputs when recording. You don't want it in the red like reel to reel tape analog recording at all.
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post #7 of 106 Old 11-10-2018, 04:50 PM
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I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with the concept of a USB output TT; the problem is they tend to be cheap, junky, mediocre turntables.

Cheap DACs and cheap phono preamps aren't their problem, it's the cheap turntable and cartridge which are their problem.
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post #8 of 106 Old 11-10-2018, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTVhike View Post
I do purchase CDs or digital downloads for music which is available but most of my library hasn't been released digitally.

That would be a very good reason to go about the slow process of playing records at real time and converting them then.

Ask your doctor if DIY is right for you. Side effects of DIY may include anxiety, elevated blood pressure, lightheadedness, rapid heartbeat, skeletal muscle flaccidity, euphoria, psychological dependence, insomnia, confusion, blurred vision, impulsivity, uncontrolled or repeated movements.
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post #9 of 106 Old 11-10-2018, 06:58 PM
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Teac DA-3000, direct connect from a phono preamp, multiple recording formats, free conversation software from TEAC website.
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post #10 of 106 Old 11-11-2018, 10:49 AM
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HOW MUCH MONEY DO YOU HAVE TO SPEND?

Someone just recommended an $800 ADC, I recommended a $20 ADC. Bearing in mind that your computer has an ADC built in.

Budget really frames our recommendations.

What Equipment do you have now? Apparently one or more turntables in various condition. But an Amp? Speakers? CD Player? Phono Pre-Amp? Other?

You said you demands are not that extreme, but you budget will determine that. Recording, especially vinyl, from the Line In should be fine. Though as someone else pointed out, you don't want to overdrive or clip the analog input stages.

The Mackie Big Knob-Studio is intended to be a master volume control, but it is also a USB ADC/DAC with mixing and monitoring capability -

Mackie Big Knob Studio USB ADC/DAC, Mixer, Monitor Control, w/ 2x Independent Headphone amps - $199 -


https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...tor-controller


There are more simple USB Interfaces -

Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 USB Interface - $159 -


https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...e-scarlett-2i2

There are Studio Mixers with USB Interface -

Behringer Xenyz A802USB Mixer - $79 -


https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...mixer-with-usb

Stand alone external USB Sound Interfaces -

Creative Labs Sound BlasterX G6 Hi-Res Gaming ADC/DAC USB Sound Interface - $149 -

https://www.microcenter.com/product/...usb-sound-card

Or perhaps a selection of better Sound Cards for your computer -

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/subcat.as...le=Sound+Cards

https://www.newegg.com/Sound-Cards/SubCategory/ID-57

There used to be hundreds of internal Sound Card on the Market, but most people today, if they upgrade, they upgrade to an external Sound Card such as the Creative Labs above.

Though there are quite a range of external Sound Interfaces, most of the smaller lower cost models are simply USB-only DACs -

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...rder=BESTMATCH

And as I already mentioned, though limited to CD quality, the -

Behringer UFO202 ADC/DAC Phono Stage -
16-bit/48kHz converters - $20 to $30 -

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...u-phono-ufo202


In most cases, you will still have to convert the Low Level Turntable Signal to standard Line Level, so you will need some type of Phono Equalization Pre-Amp, but that need not cost a fortune -

https://www.needledoctor.com/Needle-...phile-Archival

https://www.needledoctor.com/Esoteri...no-Preamp-MKIV

https://www.needledoctor.com/Music-H...i-Phono-Preamp

https://www.amazon.com/Pro-Ject-Phon...dp/B000YEK1AQ/

Or if the budget demands, you can even go more basic on the Phono Pre-Amp -

https://www.amazon.com/Behringer-PP4...dp/B000H2BC4E/

https://www.amazon.com/Pyle-PP444-Py...dp/B004HJ1TTQ/

https://www.amazon.com/ART-DJPREII-A...dp/B000AJR482/

https://www.amazon.com/GOgroove-Turn.../dp/B00WNLIHJA

https://www.amazon.com/rolls-VP29-Ph...dp/B0002BG2R2/

Although as mentioned if you have an Amp that has a Phono-In, then it will probably have a Tape Out or Rec Out from which you can record to the Line In on your computer. Or an amp that has Pre-Amp Outputs.

How far do you want to take it?

Steve/bluewizard

Last edited by bluewizard; 11-11-2018 at 11:01 AM.
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post #11 of 106 Old 11-11-2018, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty8451 View Post
Teac DA-3000, ...
Is that TEAC or TASCAM? When I serach Teac DA-3000 only links to the Tascam DA-3000 came up -

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...tascam-da-3000

Steve/bluewizard
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Tascam and TEAC are the same company. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TEAC_Corporation

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there IS no concept of "accounting for personal taste/preference". As art consumers we don't "pick" the level of bass, nor the tint/brightness of a scene's sky, any more than we pick the ending of a novel or Mona Lisa's type of smile. "High fidelity" means "high truthfulness", faithful to the original artist's intent: an unmodified, neutral, accurate copy of the original master, ideally being exact and with no discernable alterations, aka "transparency".
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewizard View Post
HOW MUCH MONEY DO YOU HAVE TO SPEND?

Someone just recommended an $800 ADC, I recommended a $20 ADC. Bearing in mind that your computer has an ADC built in.

Budget really frames our recommendations.

What Equipment do you have now? Apparently one or more turntables in various condition. But an Amp? Speakers? CD Player? Phono Pre-Amp? Other?

You said you demands are not that extreme, but you budget will determine that. Recording, especially vinyl, from the Line In should be fine. Though as someone else pointed out, you don't want to overdrive or clip the analog input stages.

The Mackie Big Knob-Studio is intended to be a master volume control, but it is also a USB ADC/DAC with mixing and monitoring capability -

Mackie Big Knob Studio USB ADC/DAC, Mixer, Monitor Control, w/ 2x Independent Headphone amps - $199 -


https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...tor-controller

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNrmQ2ZRCJk

There are more simple USB Interfaces -

Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 USB Interface - $159 -


https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...e-scarlett-2i2

There are Studio Mixers with USB Interface -

Behringer Xenyz A802USB Mixer - $79 -


https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...mixer-with-usb

Stand alone external USB Sound Interfaces -

Creative Labs Sound BlasterX G6 Hi-Res Gaming ADC/DAC USB Sound Interface - $149 -

https://www.microcenter.com/product/...usb-sound-card

Or perhaps a selection of better Sound Cards for your computer -

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/subcat.as...le=Sound+Cards

https://www.newegg.com/Sound-Cards/SubCategory/ID-57

There used to be hundreds of internal Sound Card on the Market, but most people today, if they upgrade, they upgrade to an external Sound Card such as the Creative Labs above.

Though there are quite a range of external Sound Interfaces, most of the smaller lower cost models are simply USB-only DACs -

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...rder=BESTMATCH

And as I already mentioned, though limited to CD quality, the -

Behringer UFO202 ADC/DAC Phono Stage -
16-bit/48kHz converters - $20 to $30 -

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...u-phono-ufo202

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKY1Kf4sTfE

In most cases, you will still have to convert the Low Level Turntable Signal to standard Line Level, so you will need some type of Phono Equalization Pre-Amp, but that need not cost a fortune -

https://www.needledoctor.com/Needle-...phile-Archival

https://www.needledoctor.com/Esoteri...no-Preamp-MKIV

https://www.needledoctor.com/Music-H...i-Phono-Preamp

https://www.amazon.com/Pro-Ject-Phon...dp/B000YEK1AQ/

Or if the budget demands, you can even go more basic on the Phono Pre-Amp -

https://www.amazon.com/Behringer-PP4...dp/B000H2BC4E/

https://www.amazon.com/Pyle-PP444-Py...dp/B004HJ1TTQ/

https://www.amazon.com/ART-DJPREII-A...dp/B000AJR482/

https://www.amazon.com/GOgroove-Turn.../dp/B00WNLIHJA

https://www.amazon.com/rolls-VP29-Ph...dp/B0002BG2R2/

Although as mentioned if you have an Amp that has a Phono-In, then it will probably have a Tape Out or Rec Out from which you can record to the Line In on your computer. Or an amp that has Pre-Amp Outputs.

How far do you want to take it?

Steve/bluewizard
Bluewizard, thanks for your helpful information. Since I posted here, I went to a relatively high-end audio store and bought a Pro-Ject Carbon TT and plan to use the phono input of my Yamaha-Rx-A1010 receiver. Now, I just discovered that my new Dell computer doesn't have any audio inputs. I have a couple of older computers that have audio inputs on their motherboards, but maybe they might be noisy. Maybe I'll get one of the Behringer ones.
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+1 on the Behringer UCA202 recommendation.

Here's a secret reason why it has such good performance for its low price compared to many other outboard digitizers: NO MIC INS.

Besides not paying for mic jacks and mic preamps (you don't need for this job) there's a big plus performance-wise: no mic preamp hiss is added to the line level signal path. Most of these things, like the highly regarded Focusrite units, have no way to fully bypass the mic preamp circuit when using an already strong, incoming line level source. No mic preamp circuit = zero mic preamp hiss is added.
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Here's a secret reason why it has such good performance for its low price compared to many other outboard digitizers: NO MIC INS. .
Darn it!!!! Now the secret is out!



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Darn it!!!! Now the secret is out!
Well, put it this way: they make no mention of this perk in any of their literature. [Probably because they do make ones with mic ins, too. ]
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
+1 on the Behringer UCA202 recommendation. ...

There actually several variation of this device.

One is USB 1.1 which is fine for Audio.

The other is USB 2.0 which is better but overkill.

And another the UFO or U-Phono Model (USB1.1) that has a Phono Stage built in.

All are limited to CD Quality (16b/48k) -

Behringer UCA202 (USB 2.0) - ~$29 (perhaps cheaper on Amazon) -

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...control-uca202

Behringer UCA222 (USB1.1) - ~$29 -


https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...control-uca222

Behringer UFO202 Phone/Line (USB 1.1) -~$29 -


https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...u-phono-ufo202

Here is a review of the Behringer UCA202 by someone with a very nice Stereo System. He was impressed -



Steve/bluewizard

Last edited by bluewizard; 11-11-2018 at 12:25 PM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewizard View Post
Here is a review of the Behringer UCA202 by someone with a very nice Stereo System. He was impressed -
And here's a review from a person with a very nice stereo analyzer:
http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/...02-review.html

Other than not having a great [although acceptable] headphone amp for people using it to drive low impedance headphones, this unit is quite a bargain.
--

I get mixed messages from people saying you can (or can't) use the UFO202 version as a stand alone phono preamp as long as you power it with some USB power supply [like, say, from a cellphone charger]. What have you heard about that?
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So, for digitizing LPs, is limiting it to CD quality significant? All three Behringers are available from B&H at the same price, so I'm thinking about the 202 and using its preamp. But, if I want to use my receiver's preamp, would the receiver's line out overload the 202? Looking at other options, what about the ESI U24 XL - USB Digital Audio Interface? At $110, it's more expensive, but it is 24/196.

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post #20 of 106 Old 11-12-2018, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewizard View Post
Is that TEAC or TASCAM? When I serach Teac DA-3000 only links to the Tascam DA-3000 came up -

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...tascam-da-3000

Steve/bluewizard
Sorry bluewizard, that is a Tascam unit, I personally use it for recording vinyl and could not be happier

Yamaha CX-A5200, ATI AT 2007 Amp, ATI AT 2004 Amp, Klipsch La Scala II- Main, RB 61's - Front heights, RC-62 - Center, RS-62's - Surround, RS-52's - Rear Surround, 2 Rythmik DS-1510 DIY Subwoofers, Antimode Dual Core 2, Oppo UDP-205, MMF-7.1, Tavish Adagio phono pre w/tube power supply, XBox 360, XBox One, Oppo HA-1, and TASCAM DA-3000 SS Recorder, Kramer VS-88A Matrix Switch, Rogue Audio RP-7 preamp, Atlas Magnum II Amp, Sony HAPZ1-ES
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post #21 of 106 Old 11-12-2018, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by MTVhike View Post
So, for digitizing LPs, is limiting it to CD quality significant? All three Behringers are available from B&H at the same price, so I'm thinking about the 202 and using its preamp. But, if I want to use my receiver's preamp, would the receiver's line out overload the 202? Looking at other options, what about the ESI U24 XL - USB Digital Audio Interface? At $110, it's more expensive, but it is 24/196.

The UFO202 has a switch to select between PHONO and LINE, so it will do both. And it should have no problem with the REC/TAPE/Pre Out of an amplfier.

As to 16b/48k vs 24b/192k that depends on whether you will download High-Resolution Files. If you rip a CD there is no point in having more than CD Quality (16b/44.1k). If you are ripping Vinyl, with background noise, I'm not sure there is any point to ripping at greater than CD quality.

But for Studio work, or playing High-Resolutions files, there is an advantage to 24b/192k. But ... will you actually use it that way?

Here is another USB interface that you might want to consider -

Behringer U-Phoria UMC204HD USB 2.0 Audio Inteface - 24b/192k - B&H - $79 -

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...t_192_khz.html

youtube.com/results?search_query=Behringer+U-Phoria+UMC204HD+USB


Notice it has Level Controls on each channel, if an input is too high or too low, it can be adjusted. It also has Clipping Indicator Lights to warn you if you are over-driving the inputs. Plus there is a Master Level Control and a separate Headphone amp with volume control. It supports both LINE and Mic/Instrument Input. It is basically a lower cost Scarlett 2i2.

After you are done recording, this could also act as a convenient interface between your computer and your Monitor and Headphones for every day use. The U-Phoria could act as a Master Volume Control for your Computer/Monitors.

If you just want something to do this one basic task, then consider the Behringer UCA202, UCA222, or the UFO202, and perhaps the UMC204HD above. Those are all very affordable, and the UMC202HD at $79 is not going to break the bank, and it is more versatile than the other options. Again, it is basically a lower cost Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 for about HALF the money.

So, you can compare, here is the Scarlett 2i2 ($159) -

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...usb_audio.html

If you want full 24b/192k Record and Playback, I'm not sure there is a better bargain than the Behringer UMC204HD.

Because these use a combination XLR/1/4" Phone connector, you will probably need some of these RCA to 1/4" Phone adapters -

https://www.amazon.com/GLS-Audio-Fem...dp/B0014C59UY/

Though there are other options for adapting connectors. Such as RCA to XLR Adapters -

https://www.amazon.com/TISINO-Adapte.../dp/B077L89MB9

https://www.amazon.com/TISINO-Cable-...dp/B077L3PG45/

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Last edited by bluewizard; 11-14-2018 at 01:01 PM.
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post #22 of 106 Old 11-12-2018, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by MTVhike View Post
So, for digitizing LPs, is limiting it to CD quality significant?
No. The dynamic range of CD quality [16-bit] is 96 dB whereas even a state of the art LP system will struggle to get anywhere even close to 85 and that's only under ideal conditions with brand new, heavy, audiophile pressings of the LP in mint condition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTVhike View Post
All three Behringers are available from B&H at the same price, so I'm thinking about the 202 and using its preamp. But, if I want to use my receiver's preamp, would the receiver's line out overload the 202?.
No, the UFO202 can take either phonograph level or line level. No overload problem if the switch is in the correct position.

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Looking at other options, what about the ESI U24 XL - USB Digital Audio Interface? At $110, it's more expensive, but it is 24/196.
A waste of money in my opinion, at least for the purpose of LP digitization.

Last edited by m. zillch; 11-12-2018 at 02:04 PM.
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post #23 of 106 Old 11-12-2018, 03:29 PM
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I just can't digitize my vinyl LPs. Just....can't.

I am well aware that a good digital rip, or just putting my vinyl source through a good digitizing room correction system, would result in a digital version likely indistinguishable to me from the straight analog signal. And in fact, it would be easier on me if I did that, given it would mean I could integrate my subwoofers even more efficiently by putting my whole system in to the digital domain (hence room correction/timing correction/delay could be used).

But...I just can't.

It's a conceptual thing for me. I love listening to my digital sources. But when I want to play records, I want it to be all honest-to-goodness analog.
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post #24 of 106 Old 11-12-2018, 03:38 PM
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It's a conceptual thing for me. I love listening to my digital sources. But when I want to play records, I want it to be all honest-to-goodness analog.
99% of LPs made after the mid 90's were at some point in their long journey to the cutting lathes's cutter head, digital.

In fact it was possible to say the same for some music as far back as 1971:

This was the first commercial release from the Denon/NHK PCM encoder/decoder however there are some experimental recordings of digital stereophonic sound as far back as the late 60's.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there IS no concept of "accounting for personal taste/preference". As art consumers we don't "pick" the level of bass, nor the tint/brightness of a scene's sky, any more than we pick the ending of a novel or Mona Lisa's type of smile. "High fidelity" means "high truthfulness", faithful to the original artist's intent: an unmodified, neutral, accurate copy of the original master, ideally being exact and with no discernable alterations, aka "transparency".
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post #25 of 106 Old 11-12-2018, 03:46 PM
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Yes m. Zilch, I'm aware that a great many albums I own came from digital masters. And funny enough, I've never had a problem with that at all, unlike some vinyl-heads who bemoan digital masters. I guess this is because even coming from a digital master, it ends up going through the specific mastering process for vinyl...which is going to be different than for the digital release....and then it's not a digital source anymore anyway.** So from that mastering stage, on through to whatever limitations/distortions are picked up as it goes through playing on the turntable, it gets the "vinyl sound" more than just listening to it on a digital source. So I'm not hardcore at all about analog masters, but once it's mastered for, and put on vinyl, I want to preserve that analog experience.

I'm not justifying it on technical or even perfectly rational/consistent grounds. As I said: I'm sure I couldn't tell the difference between a great vinyl rip and my turntable playback (never done it, just infer it from what I've read). Just explaining my own quirky mindset in how I think of my playback system.


**(I would not however, countenance an LP that was simply a direct transfer from a CD, as can be found in a number of cheapy-rip-off releases by some lesser companies).
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post #26 of 106 Old 11-12-2018, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTVhike View Post
but it is 24/196.
LP is not even 16/44 RBCD quality, so why waste all the data space with 24/192?


Good TT, good cart, well set up with clean records. Then to a phono stage (your AVR should be fine, then ADC and PC. You may need to add an attenuator between the AVR line out and the ADC to prevent overload on some discs. They're available very reasonably on ebay. You'll need to spend some time setting it up and setting levels, for which Audacity is a boon.
It's no more difficult than that.
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post #27 of 106 Old 11-13-2018, 05:34 AM
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Sorry bluewizard, that is a Tascam unit, I personally use it for recording vinyl and could not be happier
I use a TASCAM UH-7000 for digitizing vinyl... I use a Denon DL-103R cartridge that is re-tipped with a Boron cantilever and Micro-Ridge stylus, mounted on a Technics SL-1210 with a acrylic platter and Kab tonearm fluid damper.
Turntable is connected to a Lounge Audio Copla headamp which connects to the MM input of the ifi-iPhono 2 set at 100pF / 47K load.

Izotope Rx 6 recording software, and I can tell you, a 24/96 rip almost not distinguishable from the analog version on Vinyl.

If you really want to digitize once and never have to do it again, you need some good gear.

Digitizing with PC onboard (or addon) cards can only get you so far in terms of good quality rips.
Audacity on windows for digitizing is a no-go no-go for me...
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post #28 of 106 Old 11-13-2018, 06:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balky View Post
I use a TASCAM UH-7000 for digitizing vinyl... I use a Denon DL-103R cartridge that is re-tipped with a Boron cantilever and Micro-Ridge stylus, mounted on a Technics SL-1210 with a acrylic platter and Kab tonearm fluid damper.
Turntable is connected to a Lounge Audio Copla headamp which connects to the MM input of the ifi-iPhono 2 set at 100pF / 47K load.

Izotope Rx 6 recording software, and I can tell you, a 24/96 rip almost not distinguishable from the analog version on Vinyl.

If you really want to digitize once and never have to do it again, you need some good gear.

Digitizing with PC onboard (or addon) cards can only get you so far in terms of good quality rips.
Audacity on windows for digitizing is a no-go no-go for me...
Why don't you like Audacity? What about Adobe Audition?
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post #29 of 106 Old 11-13-2018, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
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Why don't you like Audacity? What about Adobe Audition?
Your audio passes through the windows audio subsystem when using Audacity on Windows.
The windows audio subsystem re-samples all incoming / outgoing audio to windows default... in other words, if for example you set Audacity to record at 16/44.1 and windows default is 16/48, the end audio on your file has been sampled twice.
Depending on the situation, your digital version might sound thinner than the analog version, or sometimes the bass sounds quite muddy compared to the original... etc...

A recording software like the Izotope Rx or the Adobe you mentioned (and many others, even <$100) will allow you to record using ASIO, (or WASAPI) which allows to bypass the windows audio subsystem completely.
You definitely need a sound card that supports this as well.
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post #30 of 106 Old 11-13-2018, 06:56 AM
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I did not read all the replies, but a friend has one of these tables, and it has gotten some good reviews:
https://www.sony.com/electronics/aud...nents/ps-hx500
unsure what price you can find it for as MSRP is pretty high.

Solid table for playback, as well as making digital copies from. Get yourself a Spin Clean at the very least to clean those records prior to ripping them to digital. Depending on how many albums you have to rip, it may be cheaper to just buy digital copies of your existing vinyl. up to you... if you want to play the vinyl anyway, may as well get a good table.

Vinyl, tape, digital... I don't care as long as I can listen to my music...
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