What audio component did you most regret purchasing - Page 9 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #241 of 270 Old 11-08-2019, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by William Abraham View Post
Dude, i work in a completely different trade and i personally don't give a ratsass about the kinda sht that's inevitable in forums like these . I do feel for the poor unsuspecting goats (looking to get buy something new) who aren't gonna get the full truth sometimes. But, hey, you gotta have those street smarts in this thing called life man.

Nevertheless, It's just really funny though watching these sneaky li'l dudes who think no-one's been on to them ever.... bwaaahahaha....
Name names.
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post #242 of 270 Old 11-08-2019, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William Abraham View Post
Could it be that many user ids here belong to vendors of specific products (vested interests) who are a) trying to boost sales/advertise their product b) downplay/refute anything bad that anyone has ever said about their product? lest sales might take a hit

Li'l vendor snakes hiding behind a hidey account phaps with no full disclosure? Hmmmm
I think think what you are describing is more like wannabe "experts" or fanboys who have (or think they have) one small bit of knowledge and will spout on it indefinitely...but god forbid you should disagree with them and then its all out personal attacks.

I'm not a lifer here but in my experience the vast majority of people on the AVS forums are enthusiasts who like to keep current on their hobbies/passions/professions while sharing their experience. Others are shopping and doing their research and then there's a mix of CLEARLY IDENTIFIABLE vendors offering support for their specific products in dedicated forums.

Of course there are are the trolls...those socially maladjusted individuals who can't seem to interact with others unless it includes an element of "I'm right and you are an idiot." Thankfully "they" seem to be in the minority (but we always seem to manage to find them).

For godsakes man, this particular thread is about personal stories of AV purchases gone wrong and virtually EVERY BRAND is represented here. Everything is not a conspiracy.

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post #243 of 270 Old 11-08-2019, 05:00 PM
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post #244 of 270 Old 11-09-2019, 06:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William Abraham View Post
Moderator, ya gotta do some background investigation and catch these cute li'l snakes (enforce full disclosure), a.k.a bring some transparency to forums like this (lest the masses get misled)
Wow!! I forgot I started this thread a long time ago. Now paranoia has set in. A lot of the contributors have been in this hobby for a long time. A lot of tube preamps have gone through my system starting w/the Rogue Magnum 99, Prima Luna Dialogue, Audio Research SP-16, CJ ET-3SE and finally the Luxman CL38U-SE. Lots of different flavors some I liked some not so much. A lot of members have had a wide exposure to various brands of speakers and electronics like any other product line on the market, food, cars, clothes you never get a 100% consensus on what a person enjoys. We all have a bias. That's life. By the way you must have had a piece of audio equipment or speaker you demoed or bought that you weren't thrilled about.
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post #245 of 270 Old 11-09-2019, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William Abraham View Post
Could it be that many user ids here belong to vendors of specific products (vested interests) who are a) trying to boost sales/advertise their product b) downplay/refute anything bad that anyone has ever said about their product? lest sales might take a hit

Li'l vendor snakes hiding behind a hidey account phaps with no full disclosure? Hmmmm
I have been saying this for a long time. It's quite obvious. It's a lot of marketing than people think.
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post #246 of 270 Old 11-09-2019, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William Abraham View Post
Dude, i work in a completely different trade and i personally don't give a ratsass about the kinda sht that's inevitable in forums like these . I do feel for the poor unsuspecting goats (looking to get buy something new) who aren't gonna get the full truth sometimes. But, hey, you gotta have those street smarts in this thing called life man.

Nevertheless, It's just really funny though watching these sneaky li'l dudes who think no-one's been on to them ever.... bwaaahahaha....

And they use so called science to try to convince people.

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post #247 of 270 Old 11-10-2019, 07:38 AM
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Science!
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post #248 of 270 Old 11-10-2019, 08:01 AM
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More than one

Not in particular order but one regret was an HD DVD player. Not because of performance - I was thrilled at the improvement over DVD. Only because of it's short lifespan. Part of me wants to curse Warner Bros for dropping support and the other wonders if I should thank them for essentially ending the format war with BR.

Yamaha RXV-1400. Salesman persuaded me that it would be a step up from my Yamaha 2090 (oldie but a goodie - still use it for stereo). 90-'s Yamaha's were too bright and lean in the bass in my opinion. I was never satisfied with it - merely tolerated it until the upgrade to HDMI equipped products.

Expensive cables. Some have made a difference but if I had it to do over again I would focus on virtually every other aspect of gear and set up before spending extra money on cables for anything other than better insulation/shielding.

It's not the topic but I have never regretted buying a subwoofer - a second - third etc.

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post #249 of 270 Old 11-11-2019, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
And they use so called science to try to convince people.

What specifically about science don't you like?

You just participated in a long "discussion" about noise in another thread. Noise in audio is a scientific subject. In that thread, IMNVHO, it appeared that most of the other participates didn't understand the subject and demonstrated that fact. Others were just trying to be aggravating. Science per se wasn't at fault.
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post #250 of 270 Old 11-11-2019, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by wassup View Post
Science!
don't be blinded

Can you expand on this thought? It isn't clear what you mean.
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post #251 of 270 Old 11-11-2019, 11:00 AM
 
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Rotel RB-1582 power amp. Worked well with movies, wasn't too impressed with 2 ch. music performance. Was initially going with a Krell, but to keep budget to midrange price, opted for rotel.
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post #252 of 270 Old 11-11-2019, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by bigguyca View Post
Can you expand on this thought? It isn't clear what you mean.
Thomas Dolby?

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post #253 of 270 Old 11-11-2019, 11:50 AM
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Thomas Dolby?

Do you have any thoughts that you can contribute to the thread? Did you regret purchasing a CD? What's your point?
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post #254 of 270 Old 11-11-2019, 12:51 PM
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I can't remember all the stuff I bought and sold over the decades and would be hard-pressed to pick a best or worst. But up there would be a Phase Linear 700; it had a habit of self-destructing and taking speakers with it. There was a top-of-line Kenwood receiver I got for a great price and learned why... Almost any really cheap thing I bought "just until I could afford better" cost me more in the long run, be it electronics, speakers, or tennis shoes. Impatience led to many poor choices.

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post #255 of 270 Old 11-11-2019, 01:22 PM
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post #256 of 270 Old 11-11-2019, 02:09 PM
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An Ortofon 2M Red phono cartridge. In my system it was so bright it caused headaches and it felt like my ears were about to bleed. I have a large collection of cartridges going back to the 1960s through today, but never before heard a cartridge nearly as unpleasant as the 2M Red.
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post #257 of 270 Old 11-11-2019, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigguyca View Post
What specifically about science don't you like?

You just participated in a long "discussion" about noise in another thread. Noise in audio is a scientific subject. In that thread, IMNVHO, it appeared that most of the other participates didn't understand the subject and demonstrated that fact. Others were just trying to be aggravating. Science per se wasn't at fault.
The most outrageous one is testing the best of the best speakers by using one SINGLE speaker and claim as long as there is no deficiency on the speaker, they sound the same.


Any mid/hi end speakers should have no deficiency, I agree that if you listen to one speaker, they should not make any difference. BUT the key to an exceptional speakers are the sound stage, the ability to create the real life feel of the sound that fill up the room, that you can hear literally in 3D. That cannot be created by listening to one speaker. So the test is just to push the mid range speakers and claim the high end speakers are snake oil.


I personally had that experience. I had a pair of Kef Uni-Q 3 way floor standing with dual woofers. It was the top of the line of the Uni-Q at the time. When I compare with my JM Lab Spectral 913.1 sound by sound, they both sound the same, there's nothing wrong with the Kef. But when I start sitting down and just listen without judging, I realize the sound stage, the separation, the 3D effect of the JM Lab. I switch back to the pair of Kef, it's all GONE. That's the difference between an OK speaker and a good speaker. You cannot judge speaker by a single speaker. It's just marketing that some middle of the road brand paid people to come up with this single speaker idea. You have to look at the background of the person that propose this, where he work for to get the perspective.


You listen to stereo, you judge with stereo.

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post #258 of 270 Old 11-11-2019, 05:58 PM
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Adcom GFA-5300 and 545 II. Funny story, I over the years had two GFA-5300s. The first one, being young and dumb I sold off the Luxman L-480 I managed to somehow stumble into for a song since I wanted to be cool with a preamp/power amp. The Luxman was cooler looking and sounded better.


Next was the 545 II, and I forget which GTP preamp I had with it. It popped every time I turned the speakers on, and for all the hype, did not sound any better than the other gear I had used before it or since. It was worth a pretty penny with box, packing, and all so I parted ways with it. Those GTP preamps had the worst control pots ever, always getting dust in them and crackling.


The last GFA-5300 I think I bought in a set to get an NAD preamp, but it was a "you gotta take it all" deal. This was years later, so I had used several other pieces in the time since the first. My thoughts on it did not change.


Mind you, all these were second hand purchases, I've only ever bought one or two pieces brand new despite all the things I've had. No love for Adcom from me, that brand is incredibly overrated. It seems to have tons of fans for whatever reason, I guess because it seems reasonably well made for the price. I never liked the lack of protection circuits, and one of those Adcoms did not play nicely with an old pair of speakers I had at the time with a particularly nasty thump on power on.
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post #259 of 270 Old 11-11-2019, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Shintsu View Post
Adcom GFA-5300 and 545 II. Funny story, I over the years had two GFA-5300s ... Next was the 545 II, and I forget which GTP preamp I had with it. It popped every time I turned the speakers on, and for all the hype, did not sound any better than the other gear I had used before it or since. It was worth a pretty penny with box, packing, and all so I parted ways with it. Those GTP preamps had the worst control pots ever, always getting dust in them and crackling...
I had the same experience with a Adcom GTP-400 and 545 amp. I bought the preamp/amp new in the early 90's, and it was all the money in the world to me at the time, but it never sounded anywhere as good as the inexpensive Pioneer SX-3700 I had before the Adcom. I hate to trash any brand, because I know there are people here who love it, but I could not find a way to like the Adcom separates at all. The Adcom preamp/amp was later stolen from a public storage unit and I really didn't even shed a tear (except for the Advent Large speakers that were stolen along with the Adcom).
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post #260 of 270 Old 11-11-2019, 09:33 PM
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I am surprised to hear Adcom is not that good. From looking at the circuits of GFA555 and GFA565, they really look good. But of cause, studying the circuit can only go so far, listening is the ultimate test.

GFA5300 is a low model MOSFET amp, I think the GFA5800 should be better.....just from reading the circuit. I won't be surprised it's Nelson Pass's design. But again just because it's designed by a famous designer doesn't guaranty it's good. I bought my Nakamichi PA-7 Stasis amp designed by Nelson Pass, it's an improved version of his famous Threshold S300. It is disappointing. So I guess sometime the name outshines the real product.


I really did study the GFA565, it's very good by any standard. I would put my money betting on the 565 over the Krell KSA or the older Mark Levinson. Actually, I think used Adcom are quit cheap for the design quality.

Own designed power amp, own designed preamp, JM LAB Spectral 913.1 speakers, Rythmik F12SE sub.
Not hooked up: Nakamichi Stasis PA-7 power amp, Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.

Last edited by alan0354; 11-11-2019 at 09:36 PM.
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post #261 of 270 Old 11-11-2019, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
I am surprised to hear Adcom is not that good. From looking at the circuits of GFA555 and GFA565, they really look good. But of cause, studying the circuit can only go so far, listening is the ultimate test.

GFA5300 is a low model MOSFET amp, I think the GFA5800 should be better.....just from reading the circuit. I won't be surprised it's Nelson Pass's design. But again just because it's designed by a famous designer doesn't guaranty it's good. I bought my Nakamichi PA-7 Stasis amp designed by Nelson Pass, it's an improved version of his famous Threshold S300. It is disappointing. So I guess sometime the name outshines the real product.


I really did study the GFA565, it's very good by any standard. I would put my money betting on the 565 over the Krell KSA or the older Mark Levinson. Actually, I think used Adcom are quit cheap for the design quality.
They probably aren't all bad, but the sound quality on mine was for sure. Maybe it's in the preamp (GTP-400 in my case) and not the amp. I didn't do any diagnosing at the time as to whether the amp or preamp was at fault, but the combo did not sound good.
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post #262 of 270 Old 11-11-2019, 10:10 PM
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I had the same experience with a Adcom GTP-400 and 545 amp. I bought the preamp/amp new in the early 90's, and it was all the money in the world to me at the time, but it never sounded anywhere as good as the inexpensive Pioneer SX-3700 I had before the Adcom. I hate to trash any brand, because I know there are people here who love it, but I could not find a way to like the Adcom separates at all. The Adcom preamp/amp was later stolen from a public storage unit and I really didn't even shed a tear (except for the Advent Large speakers that were stolen along with the Adcom).
It's a good problem to have, that there are so many good options in the price range. I personally couldn't ever see spending what the Adcom stuff goes for on it over other choices, but there's a lot out there. I think the big Adcoms have already strayed into the too expensive for what you get category, but the lower models still seem affordable. I have a positively massive ATI amplifier, 150 watts x 6 with 3 large toroidal transformers and large caps, nice modular design and bridgeable to 450 watts x 3, around 86 lbs. I think for what I paid for this, people are paying for a GFA-555 II which is a 200 watts stereo amp, which yes can be bridged mono but TBH it's a bit splitting hairs once it comes to 450 watts vs 600 watts. Both can drive nearly anything you'd need, except the ATI is just one unit and you'd need 2 GFA-555 II's.


Some people I think get a specific model in mind, maybe they saw it in a magazine or knew a buddy with one or something, and then that's all they want and they pay a bit too much to get it and lose sight of other options out there. I know, I was there - paid more than I should have for my Threshold power amp because my dad had one when I was a kid and I thought it was cool. It's only a problem when you justify having blinders by saying it beats everything else, it's the best amp, etc. FWIW, it does seem like the Adcom preamps are not good. I can attest to that, I actually had 2 of them and they were both very noisy things.

Last edited by Shintsu; 11-11-2019 at 10:15 PM.
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post #263 of 270 Old 11-11-2019, 10:32 PM
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It's a good problem to have, that there are so many good options in the price range. I personally couldn't ever see spending what the Adcom stuff goes for on it over other choices, but there's a lot out there. I think the big Adcoms have already strayed into the too expensive for what you get category, but the lower models still seem affordable. I have a positively massive ATI amplifier, 150 watts x 6 with 3 large toroidal transformers and large caps, nice modular design and bridgeable to 450 watts x 3, around 86 lbs. I think for what I paid for this, people are paying for a GFA-555 II which is a 200 watts stereo amp, which yes can be bridged mono but TBH it's a bit splitting hairs once it comes to 450 watts vs 600 watts. Both can drive nearly anything you'd need, except the ATI is just one unit and you'd need 2 GFA-555 II's.


Some people I think get a specific model in mind, maybe they saw it in a magazine or knew a buddy with one or something, and then that's all they want and they pay a bit too much to get it and lose sight of other options out there. I know, I was there - paid more than I should have for my Threshold power amp because my dad had one when I was a kid and I thought it was cool. It's only a problem when you justify having blinders by saying it beats everything else, it's the best amp, etc. FWIW, it does seem like the Adcom preamps are not good. I can attest to that, I actually had 2 of them and they were both very noisy things.

That I can actually comment as I own and use the Nakamichi PA-7 with the same Threshold Stasis design. It's an improved version of Threshold S300. I too bought it because of the name Nelson Pass. That is NOT a good amp. It just doesn't have the resolution and sound stage. The sound stage just doesn't come out. More disturbing, it cannot drive any capacitive load at all. Meaning you don't have an option to use Kimber Kable type of multi-wires knitted cable that likely give superb sound IF the amp can be stable with them.


I bought the Nakamichi used and restored it back to perfect condition. Thinking I can use it as a standard for comparison. I am not even sure it sound better than my much cheaper Acurus 3X200. I am pretty sure the PA-7 represents the newer Threshold line as the design is the same. Different Threshold just have different number of output transistors. Like S150 has something like 4 or 5 pairs of output transistor. S300 has 6 pairs. The higher models has more. The circuit is EXACTLY THE SAME, actually it has only a SINGLE schematic ( circuit diagram) and specify from S150 to the high models having different number of pairs of output transistors. Everything else are exactly the same........Including my Nakamichi.

Own designed power amp, own designed preamp, JM LAB Spectral 913.1 speakers, Rythmik F12SE sub.
Not hooked up: Nakamichi Stasis PA-7 power amp, Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.
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post #264 of 270 Old 11-11-2019, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by pjp View Post
They probably aren't all bad, but the sound quality on mine was for sure. Maybe it's in the preamp (GTP-400 in my case) and not the amp. I didn't do any diagnosing at the time as to whether the amp or preamp was at fault, but the combo did not sound good.
I take your words as like I said, reading the circuit diagram can only go so far. The real test is by listening. That's when all the theory goes out the window. People can talk till their face turn blue, one listening speaks louder than anything else.
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Not hooked up: Nakamichi Stasis PA-7 power amp, Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.
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post #265 of 270 Old 11-11-2019, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
That I can actually comment as I own and use the Nakamichi PA-7 with the same Threshold Stasis design. It's an improved version of Threshold S300. I too bought it because of the name Nelson Pass. That is NOT a good amp. It just doesn't have the resolution and sound stage. The sound stage just doesn't come out. More disturbing, it cannot drive any capacitive load at all. Meaning you don't have an option to use Kimber Kable type of multi-wires knitted cable that likely give superb sound IF the amp can be stable with them.


I bought the Nakamichi used and restored it back to perfect condition. Thinking I can use it as a standard for comparison. I am not even sure it sound better than my much cheaper Acurus 3X200. I am pretty sure the PA-7 represents the newer Threshold line as the design is the same. Different Threshold just have different number of output transistors. Like S150 has something like 4 or 5 pairs of output transistor. S300 has 6 pairs. The higher models has more. The circuit is EXACTLY THE SAME, actually it has only a SINGLE schematic ( circuit diagram) and specify from S150 to the high models having different number of pairs of output transistors. Everything else are exactly the same........Including my Nakamichi.
Mm, yeah but Nakamichi while using Stasis Topology I don't think is quite the same. I had the same consideration when looking at getting a PA-7, and people wanted way too much and from people who compared the PA-7 to the Stasis amps, the preference was almost always for the Threshold. Perhaps it was because it's a more elusive brand than Nakamichi. Beats me. The PA-7 was going for nearly $800-1k when I was buying my Stasis so you save no money buying it over the Threshold so I saw no point.


I had asked Nelson Pass himself via email and he was most fond of the latest Thresholds, the ones that were like 3.9e or something to that effect. They're exceedingly uncommon on the market, and pricey when they do show up so not really obtainable. I think my old Threshold was having some hum last I used it which is why I swapped it out for the ATI, but it's still on the equipment rack if not just for eye candy at this point.

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post #266 of 270 Old 11-12-2019, 12:48 AM
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Mm, yeah but Nakamichi while using Stasis Topology I don't think is quite the same. I had the same consideration when looking at getting a PA-7, and people wanted way too much and from people who compared the PA-7 to the Stasis amps, the preference was almost always for the Threshold. Perhaps it was because it's a more elusive brand than Nakamichi. Beats me. The PA-7 was going for nearly $800-1k when I was buying my Stasis so you save no money buying it over the Threshold so I saw no point.

I had asked Nelson Pass himself via email and he was most fond of the latest Thresholds, the ones that were like 3.9e or something to that effect. They're exceedingly uncommon on the market, and pricey when they do show up so not really obtainable. I think my old Threshold was having some hum last I used it which is why I swapped it out for the ATI, but it's still on the equipment rack if not just for eye candy at this point.

ATI is a good brand, I heard good things about ATI.

I never listen to a Threshold, but the PA-7 has obvious improvement. It has 7 pairs of output transistors, one pair more than the S300. More importantly, the S300 use the old generation of big transistors that are like 1/10 the speed of the transistors used in PA-7. PA-7 was produced in the late 80s just when the new generation power transistors became available. To me, that's very important. Also, The original Threshold Sxxx series use single power supply for both channels, the PA-7 use separate power supply for each channel. This is very important. Knowing all these and actually have experience with the amp, I doubt the Threshold is as good as the PA-7. If anything, my bet is the PA-7 is better. Also, finding the power transistors for the Threshold is likely to be harder. They use the old style transistor(TO-3 case) with casing that is obsolete and is hard to find replacement. The ones in PA-7 are still in production.....Well, these are technical talk for people that need to service them.......End users can care less.

I think that's the reason the price of PA-7 went up big since I bought mine. I paid $625. It was broken, I had to replace some transistors in the protection circuit to make it work. But I adjusted, recap and tested everything to spec.


Right now, the PA-7 is just sitting in the garage. I don't want to deal with shipping. If anyone live close by and can come over to pick it up, I am willing to sell it for cheap!! It's just sitting there waiting to die.

Own designed power amp, own designed preamp, JM LAB Spectral 913.1 speakers, Rythmik F12SE sub.
Not hooked up: Nakamichi Stasis PA-7 power amp, Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.

Last edited by alan0354; 11-12-2019 at 12:53 AM.
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post #267 of 270 Old 11-12-2019, 08:37 AM
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I take your words as like I said, reading the circuit diagram can only go so far. The real test is by listening. That's when all the theory goes out the window. People can talk till their face turn blue, one listening speaks louder than anything else.
Exactly!!!! I'm sure my Adcom separates would have measured perfectly -- they were brand new and highly regarded in period. Another friend of mine bought an Adcom GTP-500 and the next larger amp from what I had with Infinity speakers at the same time I did, and I didn't like the sound of his system either. We were both influenced to buy Adcom by a friend who had done a ton of research, literally looked at everything for months, and settled on Adcom for himself. At that time I was working so much that I didn't have time to look myself and just bought what he recommended. I didn't like it at all from the start, but after spending that much I convinced myself that I was "listening to it wrong" and the prior inexpensive Pioneer receiver was the one that was wrong. Today, I would have returned the Adcom immediately. Back then I was taking it on faith that it was better and I just needed to adjust, which was not the case.

Listening is everything. I get nauseous when I see discussions on AVS of someone arguing a point about something they have never listened to -- or when they are totally dismissive of listening, and refuse to do any listening themselves because of human flaws in perception -- all under the guise of "science". Sticking your head in the dirt and looking only at numbers is the antithesis of science.
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post #268 of 270 Old 11-12-2019, 08:50 AM
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i never will understand the love these boxes receive... they never sounded goood in the 4 different rooms i tried, blew the tweeters 2 times and the woofers once, sounded hard with any amp i connected it to...
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post #269 of 270 Old 11-12-2019, 10:51 AM
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Exactly!!!! I'm sure my Adcom separates would have measured perfectly -- they were brand new and highly regarded in period. Another friend of mine bought an Adcom GTP-500 and the next larger amp from what I had with Infinity speakers at the same time I did, and I didn't like the sound of his system either. We were both influenced to buy Adcom by a friend who had done a ton of research, literally looked at everything for months, and settled on Adcom for himself. At that time I was working so much that I didn't have time to look myself and just bought what he recommended. I didn't like it at all from the start, but after spending that much I convinced myself that I was "listening to it wrong" and the prior inexpensive Pioneer receiver was the one that was wrong. Today, I would have returned the Adcom immediately. Back then I was taking it on faith that it was better and I just needed to adjust, which was not the case.

Listening is everything. I get nauseous when I see discussions on AVS of someone arguing a point about something they have never listened to -- or when they are totally dismissive of listening, and refuse to do any listening themselves because of human flaws in perception -- all under the guise of "science". Sticking your head in the dirt and looking only at numbers is the antithesis of science.
Yep, you know how much I like to talk theory and into amp design. A lot of time, people can tell by looking at the circuit, BUT, BUT it's always comes down to listening as that's all that matters. From my experience, how one layout the circuit inside the amp, the placement of components really matter. Two amps can have the same circuit, but if placement of components inside is wrong, it can be day and night difference.

I always rave about the GFA565 because the circuit and the way they emphasize in the design is very close to one of my design. My amp kicked the PA-7 butt from head to toe in every which way, that's the reason I kept praising the 565. But, I guess it might not work out in real life.

It's a lot more complicate in real world listening than just by looking at the spec. A lot of people keep saying if the amp particular speaker test with the same frequency response and all ( looking at the graphs of the speakers to compare), then they should be the same. In real life, this is totally wrong. All the test are done with a SINGLE frequency. Music compose of A LOT of frequencies running at the same time. Those tests do NOT tell you how the different frequencies interact in the speakers and the amps. That's why the more knowledge people talk about TWO TONE test that put in 2 frequencies and look at how the device react under that condition. But still it's not complete as the real music composes of hundreds of frequencies running at the same time.

In this sense, it's more complicate with speakers than amps as speakers produce more harmonics that will then interact with each other to produce new frequencies. That's why I never look at the graphs of the speakers. You LISTEN to them.....with two speakers in stereo. It's how they combine all the frequencies to produce the final sound that matter.


Science and spec can only go so far, it's the sound that matters.

Own designed power amp, own designed preamp, JM LAB Spectral 913.1 speakers, Rythmik F12SE sub.
Not hooked up: Nakamichi Stasis PA-7 power amp, Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.

Last edited by alan0354; 11-12-2019 at 10:56 AM.
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post #270 of 270 Old 11-16-2019, 12:00 AM
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Components that I bought because of I already had something, instead of spending some more money to change everything. Would be cheaper.
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