Originally Posted by pjp
Exactly!!!! I'm sure my Adcom separates would have measured perfectly -- they were brand new and highly regarded in period. Another friend of mine bought an Adcom GTP-500 and the next larger amp from what I had with Infinity speakers at the same time I did, and I didn't like the sound of his system either. We were both influenced to buy Adcom by a friend who had done a ton of research, literally looked at everything for months, and settled on Adcom for himself. At that time I was working so much that I didn't have time to look myself and just bought what he recommended. I didn't like it at all from the start, but after spending that much I convinced myself that I was "listening to it wrong" and the prior inexpensive Pioneer receiver was the one that was wrong. Today, I would have returned the Adcom immediately. Back then I was taking it on faith that it was better and I just needed to adjust, which was not the case.
Listening is everything. I get nauseous when I see discussions on AVS of someone arguing a point about something they have never listened to -- or when they are totally dismissive of listening, and refuse to do any listening themselves because of human flaws in perception -- all under the guise of "science". Sticking your head in the dirt and looking only at numbers is the antithesis of science.
Yep, you know how much I like to talk theory and into amp design. A lot of time, people can tell by looking at the circuit, BUT, BUT it's always comes down to listening as that's all that matters. From my experience, how one layout the circuit inside the amp, the placement of components really matter. Two amps can have the same circuit, but if placement of components inside is wrong, it can be day and night difference.
I always rave about the GFA565 because the circuit and the way they emphasize in the design is very close to one of my design. My amp kicked the PA-7 butt from head to toe in every which way, that's the reason I kept praising the 565. But, I guess it might not work out in real life.
It's a lot more complicate in real world listening than just by looking at the spec. A lot of people keep saying if the amp particular speaker test with the same frequency response and all ( looking at the graphs of the speakers to compare), then they should be the same. In real life, this is totally wrong. All the test are done with a SINGLE frequency. Music compose of A LOT of frequencies running at the same time. Those tests do NOT tell you how the different frequencies interact in the speakers and the amps. That's why the more knowledge people talk about TWO TONE test that put in 2 frequencies and look at how the device react under that condition. But still it's not complete as the real music composes of hundreds of frequencies
running at the same time.
In this sense, it's more complicate with speakers than amps as speakers produce more harmonics that will then interact with each other to produce new frequencies. That's why I never look at the graphs of the speakers. You LISTEN to them.....with two speakers in stereo. It's how they combine all the frequencies to produce the final sound that matter.
Science and spec can only go so far, it's the sound that matters.